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Author Topic: Government Super Computers USA, China, Japan, etc..  (Read 1807 times)
mika
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February 05, 2012, 02:40:00 PM
 #1

Governments of the world have thousands of these super computers.
China or the USA alone could bring down Bitcoin.

Bitcoin Miners don't even come close to these monsters.

Can someone please answer my big worry, as i'm really thinking of stopping my mining as it seems futile.

I hope someone has a good answer for me.

Crimson
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February 05, 2012, 03:21:54 PM
 #2

Governments of the world have thousands of these super computers.
China or the USA alone could bring down Bitcoin.

Bitcoin Miners don't even come close to these monsters.

Can someone please answer my big worry, as i'm really thinking of stopping my mining as it seems futile.

I hope someone has a good answer for me.

Crimson

Compare http://www.top500.org/static/lists/2011/11/TOP500_201111_Poster.png
and http://www.bitcoinwatch.com/

The combined power of the top 500 supercomputers is just half of the Bitcoin network (PetaFlops). Just for perspective.

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rckid1
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February 05, 2012, 04:49:37 PM
 #3

Also the time on those computers is extremely valuable.  The odds of them deciding to say lets go mine some bitcoins are about the same as the odds of U.S. overtaking China in manufacturing, sadly.
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February 05, 2012, 05:03:21 PM
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Also the time on those computers is extremely valuable.  The odds of them deciding to say lets go mine some bitcoins are about the same as the odds of U.S. overtaking China in manufacturing, sadly.

Unless mined bitcoins would be worth enough to make the whole affair profitable. But then it would mean that btc is officially recognized by government(s) as viable currency; a thing that the establishment is likely to avoid as long as possible...

Thought I am a Monad I cling to pure functions. Let me be less imperative...
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February 05, 2012, 06:16:07 PM
 #5

Quote from: mika
Can someone please answer my big worry, as i'm really thinking of stopping my mining as it seems futile.

Everywhere you look there's risk. If it's too risky for you back away.

But think about what would happen if govt's decided to put all their processing power to mining bitcoins.
Maybe they will bring a quantum computer to the problem and overnight own all remaining bitcoins. Would that end the age of bitcoin?
Or start a new age?
Let's say they get a huge proportion, then what? Do they sit on them? Then what?

Maybe bitcoin is a govt. psyop.  Where's the original developer these days? Maybe the govt. is mining something else while everyone thinks they are mining bitcoins? But what could they be mining?  Maybe they just want to give people a reason to buy hardware? Or maybe they want to know
what's possible, collectively, by the masses.

If bitcoins worried them they would have done something by now. Right? The govt. has huge processing power at their disposal and cost doesn't ever seem to be an issue for them. So they could have done something by now. Maybe bitcoin is a proof of concept for something else? Is it something good or something evil?



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February 05, 2012, 07:49:22 PM
 #6

Quote from: anu
The combined power of the top 500 supercomputers is just half of the Bitcoin network (PetaFlops). Just for perspective.

But that's only the computers they tell us about. You don't really think they'd tell us all their secrets, do you?

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February 05, 2012, 08:46:13 PM
 #7

The one thing governments can't keep secret is how big something is.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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February 05, 2012, 09:49:27 PM
 #8

Governments of the world have thousands of these super computers.
China or the USA alone could bring down Bitcoin.

Bitcoin Miners don't even come close to these monsters.

Can someone please answer my big worry, as i'm really thinking of stopping my mining as it seems futile.

I hope someone has a good answer for me.

Crimson

Compare http://www.top500.org/static/lists/2011/11/TOP500_201111_Poster.png
and http://www.bitcoinwatch.com/

The combined power of the top 500 supercomputers is just half of the Bitcoin network (PetaFlops). Just for perspective.
You speak about perpesctive and yet you link CPU supercomputers.

A single GPU supercomputers worth some millions of $ would have more power than the bitcoin network.
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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February 05, 2012, 10:12:56 PM
 #9

There is no doubt that a nation or large corporation can have a GPU supercomputer designed and fabricated to order that would dominate the Bitcoin network. In fact, there would be many that would. They would also have IP addresses and would be subject to DD attacks. Welcome to World War Bitcoin.  Grin

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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February 06, 2012, 12:23:46 AM
 #10

Most people with access to supercomputers are probably more interested in academic/modelling purposes, but I am paranoid about the US thinking bitcoin is a threat and invest there considerable resources into mining the rest of the bitcoins.

Will code for coins, python c#, php(+html, jss, sql) scripts can also pen testing(not a skid) PM me https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=71889.msg813212#msg813212

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February 06, 2012, 02:32:58 AM
 #11

If a govt did mine all remaining (or most remaining) what would happen? Would it be the end? Would the BTC price go up? Probably an old topic but I'm new to BTC.  Would the price go up and then the govt would dump their lot onto the market to wipe it out? Maybe they don't want to reveal what they are capable of doing so they don't?  Maybe it's not signficant to govts. I'm still having doubts that BTC is legit. BTC smells funny to me. Could all mining actually be solving some other unforseen problem?

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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February 06, 2012, 02:37:17 AM
 #12

If a govt did mine all remaining (or most remaining) what would happen? Would it be the end? Would the BTC price go up? Probably an old topic but I'm new to BTC.  Would the price go up and then the govt would dump their lot onto the market to wipe it out? Maybe they don't want to reveal what they are capable of doing so they don't?  Maybe it's not signficant to govts. I'm still having doubts that BTC is legit. BTC smells funny to me. Could all mining actually be solving some other unforseen problem?
The difficulty rate would hit the moon. Probably every country and major corporation would be mining and DDosing each other for the next ten years. The winner would have the strongest economy for several years. The general public would win because money would be backed by something and governments would not be inflating money anymore.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
anu
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February 06, 2012, 10:07:43 AM
 #13

The combined power of the top 500 supercomputers is just half of the Bitcoin network (PetaFlops). Just for perspective.
You speak about perpesctive and yet you link CPU supercomputers.

A single GPU supercomputers worth some millions of $ would have more power than the bitcoin network.

Some of them are GPU. Although they generally use nVidia which are not so good at hashing.

Crimson was talking about existing supercomputers. They are built for specific tasks which require more complex algorithms that hashing (FEM...) Generally a supercomputer is a bad choice for attacking Bitcoin because most of the cost go into the interconnects which are completely useless for a trivial parallel algorithm like hashing. Sure it's possible to *build* a mining rig that can mount a 51% attack. But that would require a budget of 50 million or so.

I don't expect managers to mount such an attack. Not one would take the responsibility. If we can counter it, the career of the persons responsible is history. It can even be legally challenged. I am sure the DMCA gives enough foothold to blow such attacks out of the water.

This is all conspiracy nuts talk. Governments may take action against Bitcoin but if they do it's not going to be with hacker attacks. If they decide to take action, it will be by making a law because that is what they are good at.

If you ask me what law I'd say that you'd have to de-anonymize Bitcoin, probably by registering your Bitcoin addresses with the government. They may also make it illegal for you to interact with an address that is not registered.

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February 06, 2012, 10:18:43 AM
 #14

I think it would be weird for that to start happening, if anything they'll make FPGA's cheaper lol

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February 06, 2012, 11:33:36 AM
 #15

If they really start hashing, I for one would be happy as Christmas was early. The value of bitcoin would soar, and our fiat would be backed with something better. If they wanted to take down bitcoin, they would go the painless way by enactif laws and whatnot, not by minig together.

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February 06, 2012, 02:15:32 PM
 #16

If they really start hashing, I for one would be happy as Christmas was early. The value of bitcoin would soar, and our fiat would be backed with something better. If they wanted to take down bitcoin, they would go the painless way by enactif laws and whatnot, not by minig together.
That would totally work because everyone does exactly what the government tells them to do.

Will code for coins, python c#, php(+html, jss, sql) scripts can also pen testing(not a skid) PM me https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=71889.msg813212#msg813212

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February 06, 2012, 09:06:23 PM
 #17

Maybe bitcoin is govt scheme to kill p2p networks. They will point to bitcoin, claim anarchy, and convince everyone that all p2p can be used for bitcoin so all p2p must be shutdown.  It's a common tactic used by govt.  Sort of like a false-flag operation.  Take an old aircraft carrier near an enemy, get them to attack and sink it. Then point the finger and say "see, they're bad". (in this case you also dispose of the carrier)

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February 07, 2012, 12:50:39 AM
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But think about what would happen if govt's decided to put all their processing power to mining bitcoins.
Difficulty would go up, and some important scientific research would get neglected. That's about it.

Quote
Maybe they will bring a quantum computer to the problem and overnight own all remaining bitcoins. Would that end the age of bitcoin?
Or start a new age?

Seeming as quantum computers just managed for factor the number 15 into 3 and 5, I don't think we have to worry about it. See below for the other repercussions.

Quote
Let's say they get a huge proportion, then what? Do they sit on them? Then what?

The the bitcoins we hold are worth a whole lot more. It would skyrocket their popularity and value overnight...not a bad thing if you are holding long...

Quote

Maybe bitcoin is a govt. psyop.  Where's the original developer these days? Maybe the govt. is mining something else while everyone thinks they are mining bitcoins? But what could they be mining?  Maybe they just want to give people a reason to buy hardware? Or maybe they want to know
what's possible, collectively, by the masses.

If bitcoins worried them they would have done something by now. Right? The govt. has huge processing power at their disposal and cost doesn't ever seem to be an issue for them. So they could have done something by now. Maybe bitcoin is a proof of concept for something else? Is it something good or something evil?



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February 07, 2012, 12:54:27 AM
 #19

A single GPU supercomputers worth some millions of $ would have more power than the bitcoin network.

The top 500 contains multiple supercomputers which use GPUs.   The #2 supercomputer (which was the #1 not so long ago) gets roughly 30% of its computational power from over 7600 NVidia GPUs.   The reality is just that supercomputer are ill suited for mining.  They are inefficient on a MH/$ and MH/W basis because they tend to have lots of expensive (and power guzzling) stuff which do nothing for Bitcoin Mining.  Components like massive memory banks (as in hundreds of TBs), redundant high speed storage arrays (think thousands of 15K RPM SAS drives and now SSDs), ultra low latency high speed interconnects (20Gbps fiberchannel), node redundancy, etc.

Sure you could use a Supercomputer for bitcoin mining, and you could also use a ferrari for hauling gravel.  Doesn't mean it is a good fit.
defenestra
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February 08, 2012, 12:28:37 PM
 #20

Sure you could use a Supercomputer for bitcoin mining and you could also use a ferrari for hauling gravel.  Doesn't mean it a good fit.

What a big entity (like a government) could do is to use its funds to fabricate dedicated hashing ASICs. However such move could be viewed as being BTC positive; you don't react to things which are supposedly meaningless (or pretend them to be as such). Bitcoin is in competition with fiat currencies so attacking it would mean it REALLY has started to be a viable alternative.

So... as long most people stick to fiat, pay taxes using fiat (and stay ignorant to debasement) there isn't reason to try actively suppressing BTC.

Thought I am a Monad I cling to pure functions. Let me be less imperative...
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