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Author Topic: Losing the High Moral Ground  (Read 2608 times)
btcxyzzz
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May 29, 2014, 06:52:52 PM
 #41

Are you ready to be personally extorted by anonymous bomb threats for anonymous payments in what you consider civilized society?

That has absolutely nothing to do with cryptos.

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cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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May 29, 2014, 06:57:18 PM
 #42

Are you ready to be personally extorted by anonymous bomb threats for anonymous payments in what you consider civilized society?

That has absolutely nothing to do with cryptos.
It has everything to do with them. There is no other way to do it risk free without cryptos.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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May 29, 2014, 08:17:54 PM
 #43

Are you ready to be personally extorted by anonymous bomb threats for anonymous payments in what you consider civilized society?

That has absolutely nothing to do with cryptos.
It has everything to do with them. There is no other way to do it risk free without cryptos.

Nothing is "risk free", and extortion has existed long before cryptocurrency was invented.

Most people do not understand that there is no such thing as "selective" freedom: either everybody is free, or nobody is.

Freedom comes always with a cost, focusing on the "bad press" that black markets could give to Bitcoin is incredibly narrow minded (despite of one's opinion on "drugs" or this or that "illegal" thing), because the flourishing of "black" markets is just a blatant example of the incredible empowering force that Bitcoin constitutes.

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May 29, 2014, 08:24:24 PM
 #44

Every victimless action is, or eventually will be made, a "crime". If you are a human, you are a "criminal" to some degree exceeding zero.

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May 29, 2014, 09:20:42 PM
 #45

Are you ready to have school buses bombed for ransom? Dark cryptocurrencies would make this so easy any Virginia Tech freshman could do it.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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May 29, 2014, 10:01:53 PM
 #46

Are you ready to have school buses bombed for ransom? Dark cryptocurrencies would make this so easy any Virginia Tech freshman could do it.

Eliminating dark cryptocurrencies doesn't solve the problem of the Virginia Tech freshman.

I'm all for a more transparent world where dark cryptocurrencies aren't needed.  But as long as we have oppressive governments that are trying to spy on their citizens with Orwellian surveillance networks then there will be a supply.  The only reason there is supply is because there is demand.  Eliminate the demand and there will be no supply.

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."   - Henry Ford
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May 29, 2014, 10:11:39 PM
 #47

Are you ready to have school buses bombed for ransom? Dark cryptocurrencies would make this so easy any Virginia Tech freshman could do it.

Eliminating dark cryptocurrencies doesn't solve the problem of the Virginia Tech freshman.

I'm all for a more transparent world where dark cryptocurrencies aren't needed.  But as long as we have oppressive governments that are trying to spy on their citizens with Orwellian surveillance networks then there will be a supply.  The only reason there is supply is because there is demand.  Eliminate the demand and there will be no supply.
Finally, someone who almost gets it. Forgive the hyperbole about VT. TRANSPARENCY is Bitcoin's greatest gift. The BLOCKCHAIN will give us FREEDOM! Let's just forget about the Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap rhetoric from the Secret Squirrel Brigade. 'Mkay?

Your Orwellian gubbermit got that way because they can print money. We can stop that without making money anonymous, just make it finite.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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May 29, 2014, 10:25:51 PM
 #48

Finally, someone who almost gets it. Forgive the hyperbole about VT. TRANSPARENCY is Bitcoin's greatest gift. The BLOCKCHAIN will give us FREEDOM! Let's just forget about the Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap rhetoric from the Secret Squirrel Brigade. 'Mkay?

Do you consider Satoshi Nakamoto to be part of this "Secret Squirrel Brigade"?

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."   - Henry Ford
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May 29, 2014, 11:28:05 PM
 #49

Finally, someone who almost gets it. Forgive the hyperbole about VT. TRANSPARENCY is Bitcoin's greatest gift. The BLOCKCHAIN will give us FREEDOM! Let's just forget about the Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap rhetoric from the Secret Squirrel Brigade. 'Mkay?

Do you consider Satoshi Nakamoto to be part of this "Secret Squirrel Brigade"?
Satoshi Nakamoto did not place anonymity as a priority with Bitcoin, nor do most core devs. The Secret Squirrel Brigade are the group of coders that want to bend Bitcoin to fit their ideology that freedom==chaos.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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May 30, 2014, 06:09:19 AM
 #50

I don't think anonymous payments are or ever were the goal with bit coin. The idea of a public ledger kind of says that neither did the inventor.

I am willing to give up some privacy if it means governments give it up as well. 

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May 30, 2014, 08:06:49 AM
 #51

I recall when bittorrent came out people wanted to destroy it because some pedophiles could use it for kiddie porn.

And yet it continues on.

It has created a framework for many technologies that promote freedom including Bitcoin.

To have killed it back then just because of the few people that are already subject to laws using it would have been a big mistake.

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Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
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May 30, 2014, 08:59:11 AM
 #52

I recall when bittorrent came out people wanted to destroy it because some pedophiles could use it for kiddie porn.

And yet it continues on.

It has created a framework for many technologies that promote freedom including Bitcoin.

To have killed it back then just because of the few people that are already subject to laws using it would have been a big mistake.
Fortunately you can still catch the kiddie porn folks through their payment systems. Err wait. That was the point of the OP.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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May 30, 2014, 09:59:03 AM
 #53

Quote
But there was a snake in the garden. Silk Road created a black market that allowed criminals to become parasites to the Bitcoin development community. The bad press and negative impact of this crime wave hindered Bitcoin adoption. It wan't until Silk Road was closed down that Bitcoin adoption began to take hold and investment grew.

This is a great example of how disconnected some people are from reality.

Silkroad and darknet are a natural reaction to malicious laws and are a net benefit for humanity (and bitcoin adoption).

Do you really think that buying/selling/consuming various substances is a criminal act which should be punishable?

It's one thing that you choose to avoid drugs but everyone should have the freedom to decide what they want consume.

I advise that you read up on how laws have been created and how law enforcement works.
shawshankinmate37927
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May 30, 2014, 11:03:10 AM
 #54

I don't think anonymous payments are or ever were the goal with bit coin. The idea of a public ledger kind of says that neither did the inventor.

I am willing to give up some privacy if it means governments give it up as well. 

Is there a goal?  That is, is there one collective goal that everyone who uses Bitcoin has to agree on?  Or, is each individual free to decide for themselves what their own goals are? 

Individuals should be free to choose their own goals in life and if they determine that Bitcoin can help them achieve those goals then they should be free to use it in whatever manner they choose and if an individual decides that Bitcoin is not beneficial to them then they should be free to not use it.

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."   - Henry Ford
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May 30, 2014, 02:19:52 PM
 #55

Most pedos were captured by using "baits" and infiltrating into their networks not by analyzing their transactions. Same thing applies to most other criminals. So suggesting zero anonymity and continuous surveillance is not just dangerously dumb but mostly useless. If OP want such goodies then he should move to North Korea Smiley.
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May 30, 2014, 03:11:57 PM
 #56

So suggesting zero anonymity and continuous surveillance is not just dangerously dumb but mostly useless. If OP want such goodies then he should move to North Korea Smiley.
I did not suggest anything about continuous surveillance. In fact, I highly recommend using gold for transactions. That is not anonymous, but it is good enough for you to sell your kiddie porn.

Quote
But there was a snake in the garden. Silk Road created a black market that allowed criminals to become parasites to the Bitcoin development community. The bad press and negative impact of this crime wave hindered Bitcoin adoption. It wan't until Silk Road was closed down that Bitcoin adoption began to take hold and investment grew.

This is a great example of how disconnected some people are from reality.

Silkroad and darknet are a natural reaction to malicious laws and are a net benefit for humanity (and bitcoin adoption).

Silk Road was not possible until an anonymous internet money was invented, not as a sociological reaction. It was an opportunist exploiting an technology for which it was not intended. Your characterization of laws as "malicious" belies your ulterior motives as an anarchist.

Using randomly created addresses was not the original intent of Hashcash and Bitcoin. It was intended to use email addresses. That would have avoided the anonymity problem. I'm not making a black and white, good vs. evil argument here. Bitcoin is already anonymous if you are very very careful. All I'm saying is that it shouldn't be so anonymous that any street thug can use it do their thing. I know I won't stop the Secret Squirrel Brigade from doing what they do either. All I'm saying is that this is why we can't have nice things.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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May 30, 2014, 03:48:37 PM
 #57

Thats really reassuring if you would buy my kiddie porn for gold Smiley.

Anonymous cards and irc drug "stores" were invented long before silkroad...
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The revolution will be monetized!


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May 30, 2014, 03:52:00 PM
 #58

Are you ready to have school buses bombed for ransom? Dark cryptocurrencies would make this so easy any Virginia Tech freshman could do it.
I fear this will happen at some point. We already have ransomware with the cryptolocker code. Why not demand money for protection? It has been done for centuries/millennia. It's one of the unsolved problems, like assassination markets.  I wish it were not so, but if an event like this happens it may be the end of legal use in the US.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in ICELAND - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1610684
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May 30, 2014, 04:28:10 PM
 #59

Anonymous cards and irc drug "stores" were invented long before silkroad...
Gift cards are used for small transactions and they have high fees. They are not practical for something as ambitious as Silk Road. It's also suspicious if someone drops a briefcase full of cards at the customer service desk at Walmart every week.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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May 30, 2014, 05:00:22 PM
 #60

Silk Road was not possible until an anonymous internet money was invented

No - but drug dealing was  Wink


Bitcoin is already anonymous if you are very very careful. All I'm saying is that it shouldn't be so anonymous that any street thug can use it do their thing.

Which is it gonna be then ? Its anonymous - or it isn't. You can't be a little bit pregnant - even if you were "very very careful"
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