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Question: Would you be interested in trading currency & index futures and stocks denominated in bitcoin?
Yes - 26 (70.3%)
No - 4 (10.8%)
Need more details - 7 (18.9%)
Total Voters: 36

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Author Topic: Futures and Stock trading denominated in bitcoins  (Read 2578 times)
markm
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February 09, 2012, 04:40:03 PM
 #21

This sounds even more weird.

I could maybe understand you transferring the contract within a day, but closing it?

What does that even mean?

Say you contract with me to take delivery of 10,000 pork bellies on 1st december.

How do you "close" that? Is there some default you pay?

Or have you already paid me for the bellies when you "opened" the contract, and "closing" it merely means telling me I can keep the cash but please do not actually send you the bellies?

I could understand you selling the delivery to someone else, so come dec 1st you'll tell me hey by the way here is my new shipping address, so-and-so will be there waiting for the bellies instead of me".

But "closing"? I don't understand... if everyone is doing that, can I basically just eat my bellies and contract to deliver them too, knowing no one is ever actually going to take delivery so I might as well eat them myself, no one will even care?

I thought the "hedging" part of futures was (a) I know I got paid for my bellies so I can use the money to buy food for the pigs so as to create the bellies; and (b) you know how much the bellies you'll be taking delivery of in december cost long before december.

-MarkM-

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February 09, 2012, 04:49:07 PM
 #22

Do you intend to become in the future a competition to Bitcoinica?
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February 09, 2012, 05:39:58 PM
 #23

This sounds even more weird.

I could maybe understand you transferring the contract within a day, but closing it?

What I mean is that most futures traders hold their contracts for a very short time. For example, when I trade the S&P futures, my average holding time is about 15 minutes. Most traders exit and re-enter futures trades many times in the day and most of them flatten all positions before the end of the day.

Quote
What does that even mean?

Say you contract with me to take delivery of 10,000 pork bellies on 1st december.

How do you "close" that? Is there some default you pay?

A trader closes a long contract by selling a contract and a short contract by buying a contract.

Quote
Or have you already paid me for the bellies when you "opened" the contract, and "closing" it merely means telling me I can keep the cash but please do not actually send you the bellies?

I could understand you selling the delivery to someone else, so come dec 1st you'll tell me hey by the way here is my new shipping address, so-and-so will be there waiting for the bellies instead of me".

But "closing"? I don't understand... if everyone is doing that, can I basically just eat my bellies and contract to deliver them too, knowing no one is ever actually going to take delivery so I might as well eat them myself, no one will even care?

I thought the "hedging" part of futures was (a) I know I got paid for my bellies so I can use the money to buy food for the pigs so as to create the bellies; and (b) you know how much the bellies you'll be taking delivery of in december cost long before december.


95 to 99% of futures contracts are closed by the trader before delivery date. Physical delivery is rare and occurs electronically. i.e. gold in a depository, etc.

Futures are mark to market, i.e. The difference in value is settled at the end of every day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futures_contract





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February 09, 2012, 05:50:06 PM
 #24

Do you intend to become in the future a competition to Bitcoinica?

Bitcoinica trades BTC like forex. You actually are buying BTC from and selling to them. The quotes are their quotes to you, not price discovery from bid/ask like a real exchange. This is how most forex works. You are not buying from another trader, you are buying from the forex broker. They will take a small slice off your trades. This is great for Bitcoinica and forex traders should be fine with it, but as a futures trader, I would never trade in such a manner.

We plan to be a real exchange where traders take each other's bid and ask. This facilitates price discovery and avoids conflict of interest issues.

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February 16, 2012, 01:14:10 AM
 #25

We are considering the following domains. Anyone care to comment which one would be preferable?

btcfutur.es
bitfutur.es
btctra.de

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rjk
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February 16, 2012, 01:24:47 AM
 #26

We are considering the following domains. Anyone care to comment which one would be preferable?

btcfutur.es
bitfuture.es
btctra.de
All of them, of course! You can never have too many domains. But for the main site, you really still need a .com, and those others can forward to it.

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February 16, 2012, 08:43:44 PM
 #27

This is certainly an interesting idea!

ZeroBlock: The Bitcoin Trading Platform.
PGP KEY | 1Bitcoin3Tg2KWyAq3wzivdqwYqGwKYaGd
Andrew Vorobyov
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February 18, 2012, 08:09:01 PM
 #28

I'm a professional futures trader

my average holding time is about 15 minutes

How successful are you in trading?

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February 19, 2012, 01:13:51 AM
 #29

I'm a professional futures trader

my average holding time is about 15 minutes

How successful are you in trading?


If your entry is precise, you should never need to hold for more than two to four five minutes bars to take your first target successfully. Two points on ES is $100/contract.

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Andrew Vorobyov
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February 19, 2012, 07:50:32 AM
 #30

Have you see this? http://www.investopedia.com/articles/trading/08/turtle-trading.asp#axzz1moP6uutb

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February 19, 2012, 06:45:06 PM
 #31


I'd rather not hijack this thread to discuss trading strategies. Perhaps you could create a separate thread for it.

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Fireball
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February 20, 2012, 08:35:56 AM
 #32

I am working on this since July 2011.
Here is one of the threads - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.0

However due to problems which would arise with liquidity and great demand in a good quality currency exchange, I decided to make the trading engine universal and start from trading currencies. After it's done and there is a currency market, then I wanted to add a futures market (short intro is on the website - http://icbit.se/node/2).

1QaZ - maybe instead of redoing all the work (imagine, I spent almost a year on all the preparation stuff, and I'm not alone), you could join us? I was looking for an experienced futures trader, however I couldn't find anyone back then.

Margin trading platform ICBIT: https://icbit.se
Follow us in Twitter: https://twitter.com/icbit_se
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February 20, 2012, 03:08:44 PM
 #33

I am working on this since July 2011.
Here is one of the threads - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.0

However due to problems which would arise with liquidity and great demand in a good quality currency exchange, I decided to make the trading engine universal and start from trading currencies. After it's done and there is a currency market, then I wanted to add a futures market (short intro is on the website - http://icbit.se/node/2).

1QaZ - maybe instead of redoing all the work (imagine, I spent almost a year on all the preparation stuff, and I'm not alone), you could join us? I was looking for an experienced futures trader, however I couldn't find anyone back then.

PM sent.

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matonis
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February 23, 2012, 10:13:39 AM
 #34

Following.

Executive Director, Bitcoin Foundation
I also cover the bitcoin economy for Forbes, American Banker, PaymentsSource, and CoinDesk.
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February 27, 2012, 03:36:13 AM
 #35

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