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Author Topic: "Don't buy bitcoins"  (Read 15069 times)
The Script
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April 23, 2011, 01:59:05 AM
 #41

The way he talks resembles a priest lecture. Anyway, he's an idiot and has no idea what he's talking about. Just leave him be



A l s o

LOL   

Each "improved" picture made me crack up even more....hilarious, dude.


BitCoins has been getting a bad rap from the Austrians, and I can't figure out why.  I think they are afraid of it because they don't understand it.
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goatpig
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April 23, 2011, 02:00:50 AM
 #42

The funny thing is, he says the law in the US says you have to accept $, but you don't.

You sure about that? I thought vendors could accept any form of payment but were not allowed to refuse payments in dollars.

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grondilu
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April 23, 2011, 02:10:36 AM
 #43

You sure about that? I thought vendors could accept any form of payment but were not allowed to refuse payments in dollars.

This is a weird idea.  If I am not allowed to refuse dollars, I'll just demand a huge amount of them.

For instance, I can ask a gram of gold for a stuff I sell, but $1,000 for that same stuff.
tomcollins
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April 23, 2011, 02:18:39 AM
 #44



I haven't watched the video yet, but is that an upside-down Voluntaryist logo I see?



He actually invented that logo.

Really?!  How do you know?

I can dig up the thread.  I've talked to this guy for 5+ years.  He had a couple of different logos before he settled on that one.  I'm amazed it caught on.
goatpig
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April 23, 2011, 02:25:48 AM
 #45

You sure about that? I thought vendors could accept any form of payment but were not allowed to refuse payments in dollars.

This is a weird idea.  If I am not allowed to refuse dollars, I'll just demand a huge amount of them.

For instance, I can ask a gram of gold for a stuff I sell, but $1,000 for that same stuff.

Not quite. I'm not sure about American legislation, but since we're both French, I can tell you how it would work between you and I. Say you're looking to trade a pig. If you're willing to take my goat for it, then this is barter. In this case, this is a trade between individuals. On the other hand, if you're a vendor, you have to price the goods you put up for sale. There are two consequences to this: the price has to be made public, this means if I see a price tag on something in your store, I can legally purchase that good for that price, even if you messed up with the tag. Second consequence is that you can't refuse to sell anything priced in your store as long as I can meet your price in euros. I think there is something about 24h notice before a price change, so that you can't sell me something for €20 and ask €40 for it from the guy right next to me.

Now I don't know about the US, that's why I'm asking about it.

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Littleshop
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April 23, 2011, 02:27:51 AM
 #46

The funny thing is, he says the law in the US says you have to accept $, but you don't.

You sure about that? I thought vendors could accept any form of payment but were not allowed to refuse payments in dollars.

Vendors in the USA can reject USD, or specific types of USD like coins for merchandise or services that have NOT BEEN DELIVERED.  

Once the service or good has been delivered and there is a balance due the merchant MUST accept USD.  

So if I get my car fixed (IE the work is done) or need to pay my cell phone bill both must accept USD.  They can not require payment in just gold.  If I am at a restaurant and they present me with a bill they must take USD.  When I am in a store and I want to buy something (even if it is in my hand) the merchant can accept or reject USD.   They can also reject pennies if they like.  


Just as the bill says, "This note is legal tender for all debts public and private"


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April 23, 2011, 02:29:20 AM
 #47

The funny thing is, he says the law in the US says you have to accept $, but you don't.

You sure about that? I thought vendors could accept any form of payment but were not allowed to refuse payments in dollars.

Vendors in the USA can reject USD, or specific types of USD like coins for merchandise or services that have NOT BEEN DELIVERED.  

Once the service or good has been delivered and there is a balance due the merchant MUST accept USD.  

So if I get my car fixed (IE the work is done) or need to pay my cell phone bill both must accept USD.  They can not require payment in just gold.  If I am at a restaurant and they present me with a bill they must take USD.  When I am in a store and I want to buy something (even if it is in my hand) the merchant can accept or reject USD.   They can also reject pennies if they like.  A cell phone company CAN NOT reject pennies for the bill.

Just as the bill says, "This note is legal tender for all debts public and private"



I see, thanks for the clarification

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grondilu
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April 23, 2011, 02:33:13 AM
 #48

This is a weird idea.  If I am not allowed to refuse dollars, I'll just demand a huge amount of them.

For instance, I can ask a gram of gold for a stuff I sell, but $1,000 for that same stuff.

Not quite. I'm not sure about American legislation, but since we're both French, I can tell you how it would work between you and I. Say you're looking to trade a pig. If you're willing to take my goat for it, then this is barter. In this case, this is a trade between individuals. On the other hand, if you're a vendor, you have to price the goods you put up for sale. There are two consequences to this: the price has to be made public, this means if I see a price tag on something in your store, I can legally purchase that good for that price, even if you messed up with the tag. Second consequence is that you can't refuse to sell anything priced in your store as long as I can meet your price in euros. I think there is something about 24h notice before a price change, so that you can't sell me something for €20 and ask €40 for it from the guy right next to me.

Now I don't know about the US, that's why I'm asking about it.

What's stopping me from using double priced labels and put a ridiculously large amount in euros on them ?

Exemple for a candy bar:

"
delicious candy bar

Price:
1 BTC
100 000 EUR
"
goatpig
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April 23, 2011, 02:35:32 AM
 #49

What's stopping me to use double priced labels and put a ridiculously large amount in euros on them ?

Exemple for a candy bar:

"
delicious candy bar

Price:
1 BTC
100 000 EUR
"

That you can do. I think as long as there is a pricetag in euros, anything goes.

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tomcollins
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April 23, 2011, 02:37:21 AM
 #50

You sure about that? I thought vendors could accept any form of payment but were not allowed to refuse payments in dollars.

This is a weird idea.  If I am not allowed to refuse dollars, I'll just demand a huge amount of them.

For instance, I can ask a gram of gold for a stuff I sell, but $1,000 for that same stuff.

Not quite. I'm not sure about American legislation, but since we're both French, I can tell you how it would work between you and I. Say you're looking to trade a pig. If you're willing to take my goat for it, then this is barter. In this case, this is a trade between individuals. On the other hand, if you're a vendor, you have to price the goods you put up for sale. There are two consequences to this: the price has to be made public, this means if I see a price tag on something in your store, I can legally purchase that good for that price, even if you messed up with the tag. Second consequence is that you can't refuse to sell anything priced in your store as long as I can meet your price in euros. I think there is something about 24h notice before a price change, so that you can't sell me something for €20 and ask €40 for it from the guy right next to me.

Now I don't know about the US, that's why I'm asking about it.

The US tends to avoid having a lot of silly laws like this.  I saw that in Italy, you are not even allowed to legally barter for stuff.  Everything had to be sold for a price.
Alex Beckenham
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April 23, 2011, 02:38:58 AM
 #51

What's stopping me from using double priced labels and put a ridiculously large amount in euros on them ?

Exemple for a candy bar:

"
delicious candy bar

Price:
1 BTC
100 000 EUR
"

Candy might be okay, but that falls apart (at least in Australia) if you try to do that with basic items like milk and bread.

The market police will come and tell you you're charging too much.

goatpig
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April 23, 2011, 02:42:46 AM
 #52

The US tends to avoid having a lot of silly laws like this.  I saw that in Italy, you are not even allowed to legally barter for stuff.  Everything had to be sold for a price.

I think there was some UN conducted survey that showed France was the country in the world with the most enacted laws. There was some ridiculous figures provided, something like each year, a branch of the French house of representatives charged of deprecating old laws would get rid of 10,000 of them, the equivalent of the whole legislative scripture of the US.

On another note, grondilu, don't forget that if you price your goods for 100,000 EUR or 1 BTC, that you'll be paying taxes on the euro price, whether it sold for euros or not.

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grondilu
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April 23, 2011, 02:43:08 AM
 #53

What's stopping me to use double priced labels and put a ridiculously large amount in euros on them ?

Exemple for a candy bar:

"
delicious candy bar

Price:
1 BTC
100 000 EUR
"

That you can do. I think as long as there is a pricetag in euros, anything goes.

Yeah that's what I thought.  So "legal tender" doesn't mean much, because selling a candy bar at 100,000 EUR piece, it's pretty much like refusing EUR as a paiement.

Reminds me when I bought a 50pesos gold coin once.  The coin was worth around 600EUR, and when I asked for the price, she just said 800EUR.  It seemed to me she didn't really want to sell her coin, so she said a large number.  I know it because she looked a bit surprised when I said yes.
mizerydearia
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April 23, 2011, 02:44:14 AM
 #54


Here is without the caption in case anyone wants derivative
font: FrizQuadrata Bold
duplicated here
goatpig
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April 23, 2011, 02:45:58 AM
 #55

Yeah that's what I thought.  So "legal tender" doesn't mean much, because selling a candy bar at 100,000 EUR piece, it's pretty much like refusing EUR as a paiement.

You might want to look at the post above this one regarding taxes due on the sell.

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grondilu
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April 23, 2011, 02:46:40 AM
 #56

On another note, grondilu, don't forget that if you price your goods for 100,000 EUR or 1 BTC, that you'll be paying taxes on the euro price, whether it sold for euros or not.

Oh yeah I forgot about that.
The Script
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April 23, 2011, 03:08:55 AM
 #57



I haven't watched the video yet, but is that an upside-down Voluntaryist logo I see?


He actually invented that logo.

Really?!  How do you know?

I can dig up the thread.  I've talked to this guy for 5+ years.  He had a couple of different logos before he settled on that one.  I'm amazed it caught on.

I believe you.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised.  The anarcho-capitalist/voluntaryist community on the internet probably isn't that large.  That symbol is one of the first images to appear in Google when you search for "voluntaryism".  Good stuff.
barbarousrelic
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April 23, 2011, 01:04:01 PM
 #58

Not quite. I'm not sure about American legislation, but since we're both French, I can tell you how it would work between you and I. Say you're looking to trade a pig. If you're willing to take my goat for it, then this is barter. In this case, this is a trade between individuals. On the other hand, if you're a vendor, you have to price the goods you put up for sale. There are two consequences to this: the price has to be made public, this means if I see a price tag on something in your store, I can legally purchase that good for that price, even if you messed up with the tag.

That's interesting. In the US, vendors are not legally required to honor prices published in error.

Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.

"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.

There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
AtlasONo
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April 23, 2011, 02:44:28 PM
 #59

Real mature responses around here. We're sure to be taken seriously now!
Insti
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April 23, 2011, 02:45:29 PM
 #60

This video is at least a good demonstration that he does not have psychic powers and cannot predict the future.

(tl:dw - He uses his lack of psychic powers as an example at one point in the video)
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