"Don't buy bitcoins"

[grondilu]

is that an upside-down Voluntaryist logo I see?

Yes the guys profile says he owns http://www.vforvoluntary.com/

WTF!?

The guy is volontarist and yet he thinks money should be decided and enforced by law?

I don't get it.

[1714778398]

1714778398

[mewantsbitcoins]

The way he talks resembles a priest lecture. Anyway, he's an idiot and has no idea what he's talking about. Just leave him be

[mizerydearia]

The way he talks resembles a priest lecture. Anyway, he's an idiot and has no idea what he's talking about. Just leave him be

A l s o

[goatpig]

A more serious argument I could make about his "legal tender" point.

Law is not something that people are supposed to withstand.  It's not some superior force that people must blindlessly obey.  Law is something that is supposed to be decided by society.

The dollar existed before it was recognised by law.  I think it derives from a silver coin called Thaler.  Its usage became so popular that eventually law makers decided to make it the official money.

There is no reason why bitcoin could not have the same destiny.  As more and more people use it as they realise it is a more efficient intermediate for exchange, at some point they will have law makers turn it into an "official" money.  I don't say it is something I hope for (I don't).  I say it is possible, and if it was to happen, then bitcoin would essentially replace the dollar.

Legal tender only really refers to the currency in which the government demands its taxes to be payed in and pays its dues with. From an American citizen stand point, yens and euros aren't legal tender, yet he considers them as good a currency as dollars, which means what he really is rooting for is government sanctioned currency. How can people confuse so many things when it comes to economics. It's not that complicated...

And as far as the government is concerned, if you're not trading with a currency, then it is barter, which has its own applicable taxes. As long as the man gets his cut...

[grondilu]

You make me realize why I instinctively refuse to show my face on the web 

[steelhouse]

This guy is a regular at twoplustwo.com economics and political forums he is a really sharp anarchist guy.  But, bitcoin has had an exchange value for 6 months.  It is not a pyramid scam. A>B B>C C>D D>E E>F F>G G>A it is the web of connections that keep bitcoin up.  Every time someone buys alpaca socks those bitcoins will end up at someone that created goods.

[grondilu]

This guy is a regular at twoplustwo.com economics and political forums he is a really sharp anarchist guy.

I'm perfectly ok to believe that this guy is smart.  The way he calmly and patiently rested his case showed it.

However, one can not be always right about everything.  And this one is very wrong about bitcoin in particular and money in general.

I'd like to hear more from him about why gold is money, as I am a former goldbug myself.

[tomcollins]

Haven't watched the whole video yet but I predict discussing it is going to be fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoK8HXMSsNg

Edit.  Ok, watched it all.  My quick answer:

Bitcoin is a decentralised accounting tool.  It is pretty much as useless as a pen and a piece of paper are.  Which means it is not.  A pen and a paper is useless only for someone who can't write.  Or for someone who can write, but in a world where nobody else can.

He loves Gold, but Gold has little intrinsic value.  It's a shiny rock.  BFD.  All his criticism is completely valid for Gold as well.  There's a reason why we don't use chickens as currency.

The big advantage Gold has over BitCoins is track record.  5000+ years is a bit less of a gamble than something that's 2 years old.  But in terms of a currency, the only difference is more people want Gold.

[tomcollins]

It is likely that individual in the video is affiliated with federal reserve company or any other party supportive of us dollar and continued enslavement of society

It's not.  I know the guy.  He's an anarchist.

[tomcollins]

My guess is that he is just an economics student.

My guess too. Funny how economists seem to be the ones who know least about economics.

Your guess is wrong.  He's a BIG Austrian guy.  He just doesn't understand it very well.

[tomcollins]

I haven't watched the video yet, but is that an upside-down Voluntaryist logo I see?

He actually invented that logo.

[barbarousrelic]

He's saying you can't price bitcoins because there isn't a market for them. But there is.

[tomcollins]

He's saying you can't price bitcoins because there isn't a market for them. But there is.

He's saying you can't price them because there is nothing you can do with them other than trade them.  He's right in that respect, there's nothing you can do *with* them.  You can't eat them, you can't look at how pretty they are, etc...

But that doesn't mean you can't price them.  Gold, if only valued for it's industrial and cosmetic properties, would be much less than what it currently is.  It's almost as if he doesn't understand the concept of currency.

[slurch]

Central Banking = Debt Slavery = Not Good
"Legal Tender" = government violence backed tender

*shakes head at author of video*

[steelhouse]

He will soon realize a currency that is not commodity backed or fiat backed is possible.  how will he know, bitcoin will still have an exchange value in 6 months.  I can even predict the end of bitcoin.  What will happen is someone will try to corner the bitcoin market.  The users and store owners will say no and use another fork currency.   It is the store owners that decide what the currency is.  I had to eat crow too.

[grondilu]

He's saying you can't price bitcoins because there isn't a market for them. But there is.

He's saying you can't price them because there is nothing you can do with them other than trade them.

Yeah and that's silly to say that.

As I said in an other thread, it's like saying a hammer has no use apart from nailing nails.  It's what it is made for, damn it!

[barbarousrelic]

He's saying you can't price bitcoins because there isn't a market for them. But there is.

He's saying you can't price them because there is nothing you can do with them other than trade them. 

Yeah and that's silly to say that.

As I said in an other thread, it's like saying that a hammer has no use apart from nailing nails.  It's what it is made for, damn it!

And furthermore, there is nothing you can do with dollars or euros or francs but trade them, but you can certainly price things in these currencies.

[tomcollins]

He's saying you can't price bitcoins because there isn't a market for them. But there is.

He's saying you can't price them because there is nothing you can do with them other than trade them.

Yeah and that's silly to say that.

As I said in an other thread, it's like saying a hammer has no use apart from nailing nails.  It's what it is made for, damn it!

I agree.

There are a lot of reasons to pick on BitCoin.  That certainly isn't one, especially from someone who says gold is a good currency.

[tomcollins]

He's saying you can't price bitcoins because there isn't a market for them. But there is.

He's saying you can't price them because there is nothing you can do with them other than trade them. 

Yeah and that's silly to say that.

As I said in an other thread, it's like saying that a hammer has no use apart from nailing nails.  It's what it is made for, damn it!

And furthermore, there is nothing you can do with dollars or euros or francs but trade them, but you can certainly price things in these currencies.

Those you can since you are forced to.  And everyone is "forced" to take them.

The funny thing is, he says the law in the US says you have to accept $, but you don't.

Someone needs to find his youtube video about Santa Claus.

[The Script]

I haven't watched the video yet, but is that an upside-down Voluntaryist logo I see?

He actually invented that logo.

Really?!  How do you know?