satoshi is either dead or in prison

[crunchynut]

or both. as there is no big player in the bitcoin world that didn't turn out to be a criminal, it's more likely that he's still alive. what do you think was satoshi's crime he went to prison for?

[1715005490]

1715005490

[1715005490]

1715005490

[1715005490]

1715005490

[Shallow]

Neither. He's still around   

[hilariousandco]

or both. as there is no big player in the bitcoin world that didn't turn out to be a criminal, it's more likely that he's still alive. what do you think was satoshi's crime he went to prison for?

What is the point in this baseless speculation? So let me get this straight: he's either dead, in prison, but then you say or still alive? And there are plenty of people involved in Bitcoin who aren't criminals. It's only a tiny minority that are but obviously they get the press hits. There's no crimes commuted by Satoshi just for creating Bitcoin unless he did something else or did some money laundering etc.

[cuddaloreappu]

its nice that  you speculate..

why dont you try speculating here

http://www.reddit.com/r/Satoshistories/

[Beliathon]

Who cares? He/she/they are immortalized by their creation of crypto. Stop making shitty threads.

[SomethingElse]

I am guessing Satoshi is either still working on Bitcoin behind the scenes, or is working on the next big project.  A great painter just doesn't pain one painting and quite.  A good philosopher just doesn't write one philosophy book and quite.  Satoshi is more than a painter and a philosopher combined. 

[yatsey87]

I dont think he's either. He's probably just retired from bitcoin and is watching his baby from afar. Maybe from a beach somewhere  . I often wonder if he had other stashes of coins that we don't know about. I'm sure he must have.

[eeeeek]

Yes they do... it's called a one day fly ... just look at the guy who invented the floppydisk... He only came up with weird stuff and fails after that.

[Beliathon]

A great painter just doesn't pain one painting and quite.

Platitude. Give me an argument with substance.

[darlidada]

Have you guys heard about Cryptonote, bytecoin and monero ? Satoshi and his team are still around

just read the white paper at :

www.cryptonote.org

[Ron~Popeil]

Everyone knows Satoshi is living in a trailer park in Mobile Alabama with Elvis and JFK. 

[Mr Tea]

I think it's possible that he's dead, but I see no evidence for it. Like he said, I think he just moved on to other things.

[cypherdoc]

Satoshi:  "I am not Dorian".

[Jesu]

The only thing that makes me wonder if hes dead is the fact that he hasnt spent any of his coins. I just cant understand that.

[yatsey87]

The only thing that makes me wonder if hes dead is the fact that he hasnt spent any of his coins. I just cant understand that.

I must admit that does make me wonder too. This community would go into meltdown if those coins ever moved. Can you imagine how many threads there would be and the excitement in trying to follow them?

[acs267]

What about this: Everybody should stop making poor assumptions of what happened to Satoshi Nakamoto. The person obviously doesn't want to be found, they want to remain anonymous like those daily .0001BTC transactions. Let them remain anonymous. It's a huge reason why some people use Bitcoin - anonymity. So let the creator keep his, too.

[juju]

The only thing that makes me wonder if hes dead is the fact that he hasnt spent any of his coins. I just cant understand that.

I must admit that does make me wonder too. This community would go into meltdown if those coins ever moved. Can you imagine how many threads there would be and the excitement in trying to follow them?

I think its likely that someone smart enough to postulate something as intricate as Bitcoin will not have monetary issues. Satoshi is holding to teach us the true value of a Bitcoin. I find it unlikely that whoever created this technology, and perhaps knows it better than anyone, did not back up the private key for his address. It is very probable that Satoshi has several wallets, I mean he created the currency, he had to run the testnet and main-net on at-least two machines for the Blockchain to start, to think he has a single wallet would be silly. I bet if anything he is just digging into the wallets with smaller amounts of coins first, couple blocks of coins here or there.

[yatsey87]

The only thing that makes me wonder if hes dead is the fact that he hasnt spent any of his coins. I just cant understand that.

I must admit that does make me wonder too. This community would go into meltdown if those coins ever moved. Can you imagine how many threads there would be and the excitement in trying to follow them?

I think its likely that someone smart enough to postulate something as intricate as Bitcoin will not have monetary issues. Satoshi is holding to teach us the true value of a Bitcoin. I find it unlikely that whoever created this technology, and perhaps knows it better than anyone, did not back up the private key for his address. It is very probable that Satoshi has several wallets, I mean he created the currency, he had to run the testnet and main-net on at-least two machines for the Blockchain to start, to think he has a single wallet would be silly. I bet if anything he is just digging into the wallets with smaller amounts of coins first, couple blocks of coins here or there.

You never know. You could be a genius but poor or not well paid, but he most certainly doesn't have momentary issues now, but this is a hell of a lot of money just sitting around unused. He could also use the money for good or use it to spread bitcoin even further.

[blatchcorn]

The only thing that makes me wonder if hes dead is the fact that he hasnt spent any of his coins. I just cant understand that.

I must admit that does make me wonder too. This community would go into meltdown if those coins ever moved. Can you imagine how many threads there would be and the excitement in trying to follow them?

I think its likely that someone smart enough to postulate something as intricate as Bitcoin will not have monetary issues. Satoshi is holding to teach us the true value of a Bitcoin. I find it unlikely that whoever created this technology, and perhaps knows it better than anyone, did not back up the private key for his address. It is very probable that Satoshi has several wallets, I mean he created the currency, he had to run the testnet and main-net on at-least two machines for the Blockchain to start, to think he has a single wallet would be silly. I bet if anything he is just digging into the wallets with smaller amounts of coins first, couple blocks of coins here or there.

You never know. You could be a genius but poor or not well paid, but he most certainly doesn't have momentary issues now, but this is a hell of a lot of money just sitting around unused. He could also use the money for good or use it to spread bitcoin even further.

This makes me think: satoshi must have at least one other wallet for when he uses/trades/experiments with bitcoin.  Who volunteers to go find it?

[Ron~Popeil]

The man wants to be left alone. Why don't we simply respect his wishes and leave him alone?

[jc01480]

Neither mate

He is Uncle Sam

Uncle Satoshi...

[chek2fire]

Is Watson from the future

[Whitehouse]

The man wants to be left alone. Why don't we simply respect his wishes and leave him alone?

Talking about him on a message board isnt exactly bothering him.

[RodeoX]

So Satoshi is a group of people you have never met, but you have determined "he" is in prison? If you let me know which prison I will go there and confirm this.

[jc01480]

So Satoshi is a group of people you have never met, but you have determined "he" is in prison? If you let me know which prison I will go there and confirm this.

Guantanamo

[Beliathon]

So Satoshi is a group of people you have never met, but you have determined "he" is in prison? If you let me know which prison I will go there and confirm this.

Guantanamo

According to my sources, Satoshi Nakamoto is not a listed resident. Would you have me believe my government would LIE to me, knave?

[jc01480]

So Satoshi is a group of people you have never met, but you have determined "he" is in prison? If you let me know which prison I will go there and confirm this.

Guantanamo

According to my sources, Satoshi Nakamoto is not a listed resident. Would you have me believe my government would LIE to me, knave?

Yes.  It's for your own good.

[spazzdla]

A criminal eh... hum.. a lot of criminals are criminals for reasons that shouldn't be a crime...

[Predatorian]

What a BS, he is still around us, u just need to believe.

[Yeah?]

What a BS, he is still around us, u just need to believe.

Is he omnipresent like god? I like the idea that he is with us in spirit though  .

[jc01480]

What a BS, he is still around us, u just need to believe.

Is he omnipresent like god? I like the idea that he is with us in spirit though  .

Dude, this isn't about our president.  He means Satoshi!  Lol

[snaxion]

Satoshi is alive and well. He posts on this board using a different identity.

[yatsey87]

Satoshi is alive and well. He posts on this board using a different identity.

I wonder if he does? That would be pretty cool to at least know he lurks or actual posts amongst us. Maybe theymos knows he has alt accounts  .

[ncsupanda]

Satoshi isn't dead!

A satoshi is a 0.00000001 BTC. We use them all the time. How can we say satoshi's are dead?

        

[Meggie]

 I think Satoshi is still in, even more, he is still controlling most of the things

[franky1]

lets clear the FUD up

1. the bitcoin creator is a single entity, that has ben proven by the messages on the forum pre2012 and the emails to Gavin A
2. during the Dorian Nakamoto saga. the bitcoin creator made a forum post (not here) elsewhere to prove that dorian is not the creator, and the side effect, that the create is still alive, and able to use a computer, thus not in prison

research harder kids, your making yourselves look bad

[unexecuted]

Some die in prison while another are dying in the prison of their own bodies like that guy who help satoshi with bitcoin code (

[yatsey87]

lets clear the FUD up

1. the bitcoin creator is a single entity, that has ben proven by the messages on the forum pre2012 and the emails to Gavin A
2. during the Dorian Nakamoto saga. the bitcoin creator made a forum post (not here) elsewhere to prove that dorian is not the creator, and the side effect, that the create is still alive, and able to use a computer, thus not in prison

research harder kids, your making yourselves look bad

What messages prove that he is a single entity and how do you know that was actually satoshi who made that post? I havent seen proof of either.

[franky1]

lets clear the FUD up

1. the bitcoin creator is a single entity, that has ben proven by the messages on the forum pre2012 and the emails to Gavin A
2. during the Dorian Nakamoto saga. the bitcoin creator made a forum post (not here) elsewhere to prove that dorian is not the creator, and the side effect, that the create is still alive, and able to use a computer, thus not in prison

research harder kids, your making yourselves look bad

What messages prove that he is a single entity and how do you know that was actually satoshi who made that post? I havent seen proof of either.

of course you have not seen proof. because you have not even researched into it. but goodluck with that

[Phinnaeus Gage]

or both. as there is no big player in the bitcoin world that didn't turn out to be a criminal, it's more likely that he's still alive. what do you think was satoshi's crime he went to prison for?

Maybe he was framed for raping a 12-year-old boy. That would be one reason why he doesn't want to be found. Surely, he wasn't arrested while watching [Mighty] Duck Dynasty, eh? (Holy fuckin' shit, Sweet Satoshi! I'm going to start using that.)

[BittBurger]

He is Uncle Sam

+1,000

[yatsey87]

lets clear the FUD up

1. the bitcoin creator is a single entity, that has ben proven by the messages on the forum pre2012 and the emails to Gavin A
2. during the Dorian Nakamoto saga. the bitcoin creator made a forum post (not here) elsewhere to prove that dorian is not the creator, and the side effect, that the create is still alive, and able to use a computer, thus not in prison

research harder kids, your making yourselves look bad

What messages prove that he is a single entity and how do you know that was actually satoshi who made that post? I havent seen proof of either.

of course you have not seen proof. because you have not even researched into it. but goodluck with that

Care to enlighten me or point me in the right direction because you're the first person I've seen who says there's definite proof.

[sgravina]

Satoshi almost died.  But then he got better.  Sadly, his mom sold all his computer stuff while he was in the hospital.  It was either the computers or the toy trains and she knew what mattered most to him.

[crunchynut]

or both. as there is no big player in the bitcoin world that didn't turn out to be a criminal, it's more likely that he's still alive. what do you think was satoshi's crime he went to prison for?

Maybe he was framed for raping a 12-year-old boy. That would be one reason why he doesn't want to be found. Surely, he wasn't arrested while watching [Mighty] Duck Dynasty, eh? (Holy fuckin' shit, Sweet Satoshi! I'm going to start using that.)

why do you assume he was framed? what if he really did it? did you check the police report?

[logger]

Satoshi almost died.  But then he got better.  Sadly, his mom sold all his computer stuff while he was in the hospital.  It was either the computers or the toy trains and she knew what mattered most to him.

but i don't think you can code on toy trains

[Pente]

Satoshi almost died.  But then he got better.  Sadly, his mom sold all his computer stuff while he was in the hospital.  It was either the computers or the toy trains and she knew what mattered most to him.

The important thing is that he is happy:

[TaunSew]

Satoshi 1.0 and BCnext 2.0 make NEM 3.0

[Ludi]

Satoshi 1.0 and BCnext 2.0 make NEM 3.0

I don't know what any of this means. Care to explain?

[zimmah]

Satoshi is a benevolent alien who came to earth to help us get away from the corruption and than leave to reappear at a later time, when humanity learned to be less destructive.


(i do not actually believe this and i'm not trying to start a cult)

[jabo38]

Satoshi 1.0 and BCnext 2.0 make NEM 3.0

I don't know what any of this means. Care to explain?

I'll explain!

Satoshi made the first crypto coin blockchain.  It was written in C++ and was a giant hairball of code, but it allowed for tokens to be transferred.  Most of this code has been completely redone by now and Satoshi faded away.  It was a huge step in evolution of value. HUGE

BCnext made a 2nd generation crytpo coin blockchian.  It was written in Java and used POS instead of POW and allows for tokens to be transferred and so much more, including messaging, asset exchange, naming services have already gone live and there are plans to incorporated dozens of more features.  Basically any "feature" that a POW coin adds (outside of a small tweak to the mining algo) and then claims it is revolutionary because of, NXT can add that feature in a couple of months.  So if you look at the top ten features of the best top ten alt coins, NXT either does or can do those things pretty easily.  But, the code was kind of a hairball, there was no real client, and the initial distribution was so skewed that a lot of old timers won't even think about touching it.  It has been a big step in the evolution of value.  Not as big as fiat to bitcoin though.  Oh yeah, BCnext also walked away from the project with his coins and nobody knows who he is or where he went.

NEM is a 2nd generation crypto coin blockchain like NXT that is written in Java, but is written with really clean code from the ground up by a very large team of developers, not just one guy.  Each part is being unit tested and the core is being built so that new features will be easily added.  The distribution is spread out over thousands of people with the aim that every person will only have 1 share and for the most part taint analysis has done a good job upholding this.  NEM has not come out yet, so it is hard to say how good it will be.  But in many ways it looks to be a great product from the start, fair, high quality, and transparent, and no shady founders that own 10 or 20 or 50 percent.  Again, it is another step in evolution.  Probably not as big as Bitcoin to NXT though.  And then again, it might have addressed a core red flag and so in the long run turn out to be very important. It is up to the community to decide.

I know that we all think that Bitcoin is safe and Satoshi won't hurt us.  But the fact is, bitcoin is suppose to be a trustless tech, but actually anybody that owns bitcoin has HUGE trust in Satoshi.  People often buy bitcoin because they think that fiat is stupid because the government can just print more and devalue the existing fiat.  But Satoshi owning 10% of bitcoin could dump and easily sell bitcoin to every buy wall on every exchange crashing the price to $0.01 on every exchange and hold it there if he wanted. There wouldn't be anything any of us could do.  Now we all trust and think that he won't do that and so we are here, but the point is, we still are having trust in him when we are suppose to be using a trustless tech.  There are scenarios.  What if he was hacked?  What if he had an son or daughter that inherited keys and dumped?  What if the government seizes his keys like they did SilkRoad?  What if he was working for the government?  What if he decides he wants his cash?  What if he wants to donate half to charity?  Yes, all these are unlikely and we say, "that's not going to happen," but the reality is, WE JUST DON'T KNOW and therefore have trust and faith in him. 

NXT isn't actually much better in its distribution.  In someways better and in someways worse.  There are 20 or 30 massive NXT holders that at one time owned the majority of it.  They have sold off a lot but their accounts are still huge, Many of which still have more than $1,000,000 in NXT.  Lots of them would love to cash out and have that million dollars but the NXT liquidity is quite small and if they tried, again they would crash the market.  So again, with NXT we are having trust when using it that they won't harm us, when really we are suppose to be using a trustless tech.

NEM's fair distribution and and transparency in many other issues, is making it much more easy to trust.  It is just at the stage of private developer testing and only screen shots have been released of the client, but there is a lot of confidence behind NEM and in the community that when it comes out, it will come out fighting like a tiger. 

[Beliathon]

The only thing that makes me wonder if hes dead is the fact that he hasnt spent any of his coins. I just cant understand that.

You don't understand it because as a capitalist you are damn near incapable of comprehending a truly selfless act. I hold that the creation of Bitcoin was a selfless act - a gift to the world.

Those coins will never move.

[jabo38]

Satoshi being a mysteriously founder is okay.  People can live with that.  But Satoshi owning 10% is the elephant in the room that bitcoin fanatics are refusing to acknowledge or accept.  That their "trustless" tech actually requires a huge amount of trust in him.  

This I think is another reason why every week a new "Satoshi" thread pops up talking about him.  Some say, "let him be anonymous".  Well..... That doesn't work.  I don't want a person that has control over ALL my money being anonymous.  We all instinctively know with that much coin, his leverage is ridiculous.  And yes, he is still alive and on a computer.  He sent out a message recently.  Anything could happen.

I also think that he is a good guy.  That he built bitcoin because he believed in it and he won't crash it.  But.... there is the problem.  If he really believes in having the ideal form of money "the bitcoin in the sky" then he knows that him having 10% is a big problem.  So why would a guy create a perfect money and then also have a flaw created in it.  The fact of the matter is, we just don't know.

[Ron~Popeil]

I am not at all concerned about Satoshi becoming some boogie man and suddenly crashing bit coin. As with any market it would recover and find value at the place price meets demand.

[drawingthesun]

The only thing that makes me wonder if hes dead is the fact that he hasnt spent any of his coins. I just cant understand that.

I must admit that does make me wonder too. This community would go into meltdown if those coins ever moved. Can you imagine how many threads there would be and the excitement in trying to follow them?

He most likely has spent many of his coins. The coins mined much later when many people were involved.

It's only his first mined coins that haven't moved. No one knows anything about the coins Satoshi was mining late 2010. Thing is, he could have sold $10,000,000 of bitcoin and you would never ever know.

He wouldn't be so obvious as to sell or move his signature early coins! (That had a convenient footprint in the nonce or something.)

I'd imagine if that footprint is true, Satoshi did it on purpose to hide over coins he mined with no tell tale sign.

[drawingthesun]

I am not at all concerned about Satoshi becoming some boogie man and suddenly crashing bit coin. As with any market it would recover and find value at the place price meets demand.

Exactly.

Any sane Bitcoin user would love Satoshi to crash the price, each time the coins become owned by more and more people.

Fear of the Satoshi crash is irrational. The only fear is large holders that control both the buy and sell sides manipulating the price to increase their stash. Because Satoshi is already so rich he doesn't need to do this and thus we have nothing to fear.

[nakaone]

Have you guys heard about Cryptonote, bytecoin and monero ? Satoshi and his team are still around

just read the white paper at :

www.cryptonote.org

nicolas van saberhagen is also a funny name - read the paper yesterday the writing style is different. I think even though it does not matter, the place to look at is nick szabo, but probably this person is also a pseudonym

[bryant.coleman]

Any sane Bitcoin user would love Satoshi to crash the price, each time the coins become owned by more and more people.

Not necessarily. IMO, I believe that too much volatility in the Bitcoin exchange rates can harm the adoption of the digital currency. Also, if Satoshi dumps 1 million coins all of a sudden, then his motives will be questioned.

[Bit_Happy]

Satoshi might be an ET who returned to his cloaked spaceship and continued his travels to start Bitcoin on another planet.
If/when he returns you will need at least 10 BTC to be invited on his next flight into deep space.

[jbreher]

I know that we all think that Bitcoin is safe and Satoshi won't hurt us.  But the fact is, bitcoin is suppose to be a trustless tech, but actually anybody that owns bitcoin has HUGE trust in Satoshi.  People often buy bitcoin because they think that fiat is stupid because the government can just print more and devalue the existing fiat.  But Satoshi owning 10% of bitcoin could dump and easily sell bitcoin to every buy wall on every exchange crashing the price to $0.01 on every exchange and hold it there if he wanted. There wouldn't be anything any of us could do. 

Stuff and nonsense.

Yes, _if_ Satoshi liquidated his entire stash, it would likely burn through every buy order on every market. So what? A bunch of people get a major deal on a bunch of coins as the bid/ask drops to a silly value.

Then once the liquidation is complete (in hours if not seconds), the price jumps back up to maybe half that of before the event. And the historical price trend resumes its incessant upward creep in value.

The only lasting effects are that: the price appreciation over time gets set back by a month or seven, and; Satoshi's one-time sword of Damocles is forever rendered powerless.

I've already factored such an event into my buying. Have you?

<mutter>Requires trust, my ass.</mutter>

[teukon]

Satoshi being a mysteriously founder is okay.  People can live with that.  But Satoshi owning 10% is the elephant in the room that bitcoin fanatics are refusing to acknowledge or accept.  That their "trustless" tech actually requires a huge amount of trust in him.  

I happily acknowledge that satoshi could disrupt the market significantly and for a prolonged period.  However, he's not alone in this.

Bill Gates, for example, could easily cause more disruption if he dedicated his net worth to the cause.  He could buy bitcoins with seemingly no limit in sight and then crash the market at a moment of his choosing.  He could do this repeatedly, crashing at different times with different amounts.  Ultimately, he'd go broke, but we'd have chaos for quite some time.

If this possibility worries you, you really ought to get out of bitcoins now and into a much deeper and less volatile asset.

This I think is another reason why every week a new "Satoshi" thread pops up talking about him.  Some say, "let him be anonymous".  Well..... That doesn't work.  I don't want a person that has control over ALL my money being anonymous.  We all instinctively know with that much coin, his leverage is ridiculous.  And yes, he is still alive and on a computer.  He sent out a message recently.  Anything could happen.

What if satoshi revealed himself.  Would you be happier then?  What if two years later, he decided to crash the market.  Would it really make any difference that you could put a face to the act?

I also think that he is a good guy.  That he built bitcoin because he believed in it and he won't crash it.  But.... there is the problem.  If he really believes in having the ideal form of money "the bitcoin in the sky" then he knows that him having 10% is a big problem.  So why would a guy create a perfect money and then also have a flaw created in it.  The fact of the matter is, we just don't know.

If satoshi having 10% is a big problem then I imagine that Warren Buffet having 10% would also be a big problem.  Could you design a cryptocurrency as decentralised as Bitcoin which made it practically impossible for Warren Buffet, dedicating all of his resources, to acquire 10%?  I couldn't.

[teukon]

I am not at all concerned about Satoshi becoming some boogie man and suddenly crashing bit coin. As with any market it would recover and find value at the place price meets demand.

Exactly.

Any sane Bitcoin user would love Satoshi to crash the price, each time the coins become owned by more and more people.

Fear of the Satoshi crash is irrational. The only fear is large holders that control both the buy and sell sides manipulating the price to increase their stash. Because Satoshi is already so rich he doesn't need to do this and thus we have nothing to fear.

Interesting, you'd love satoshi to crash the price but fear a large holder manipulating the price profitably?  I'd love a large holder to manipulate the price profitably but would be less than happy to see satoshi crash the price (unprofitable).  The reason?  Profits are good!

Ron-Popeil is spot on though in noting that, in the event of a satoshi-crash, the various day-traders and speculators in the market would quickly set to work discovering the new fair price.  Those that work most efficiently and that have large fiat reserves at the ready for such a crisis will be the most richly rewarded.  This is precisely why good day-traders are a boon to humanity and another example of the profit motive benefitting everyone.

[Specialkey]

Neither mate

He is Uncle Sam

+1 

[jc01480]

How many "reforms" have been non-volatile?

[Lightweight]

both are highly unlikely

[Cryptopher]

Satoshi has done what they set out to do and release Bitcoin to the world, and see it flourish. That is all. Now they just wish to be left alone.

[SomethingElse]

I know that we all think that Bitcoin is safe and Satoshi won't hurt us.  But the fact is, bitcoin is suppose to be a trustless tech, but actually anybody that owns bitcoin has HUGE trust in Satoshi.  People often buy bitcoin because they think that fiat is stupid because the government can just print more and devalue the existing fiat.  But Satoshi owning 10% of bitcoin could dump and easily sell bitcoin to every buy wall on every exchange crashing the price to $0.01 on every exchange and hold it there if he wanted. There wouldn't be anything any of us could do. 

Stuff and nonsense.

Yes, _if_ Satoshi liquidated his entire stash, it would likely burn through every buy order on every market. So what? A bunch of people get a major deal on a bunch of coins as the bid/ask drops to a silly value.

Then once the liquidation is complete (in hours if not seconds), the price jumps back up to maybe half that of before the event. And the historical price trend resumes its incessant upward creep in value.

The only lasting effects are that: the price appreciation over time gets set back by a month or seven, and; Satoshi's one-time sword of Damocles is forever rendered powerless.

I've already factored such an event into my buying. Have you?

<mutter>Requires trust, my ass.</mutter>

I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.  Or maybe I don't, but one of us is really wrong.  But I calculated the "buy walls"  of all the exchanges together.  That was including the bots and the fake numbers out of China and we get 30,000,000 USD on a good day.  Bitcoin right now is a 600 USD.  That means he would have to burn through 50,000 coins!  To crash the entire market down to 1 penny.  That would be a pretty impressive "one-time sword of Damocles".  I wonder how much he would have left?  Oh yeah, 950,000 more left.  Him crashing the market wouldn't even but a dent in his wallet.  He wouldn't even know those coins were gone.  He would though be happy with 30,000.000 USD he made though.  And then... if bitcoin decided to rise up again. IIIIIIFFFFF somebody was stupid enough to buy again.  He could let the price rise up to a dollar or two and smash it down again for a fraction of what it cost him to smash it down the first time.  He could do this over and over again. 

Again.  I don't think he will.  But just the fact that this could happens and the fact that he is so shady and mysterious, nobody really knows.  Everyone that is buying bitcoin is taking a big gamble and putting huge trust in Satoshi that he won't walk with the money.  I seriously doubt he will do this, but the fact remains there are a dozen scenarios where it doesn't matter.  What if his keys are hacked?  What if Satoshi is the US government?  What if his children inherit the bitcoins and want to cash out?  What if the US government seizes bitcoin like they did the SilkRoad? 

Investing in bitcoin = having trust in satashi with all you bitcoin

[haploid23]

I'm pretty sure Theymos can come close to finding out a lot about Satoshi. Back in the early days, there were many PM's exchanged between satoshi and Gavin Andresen on this very forum. All Theymos has to do is check logs and IP's of Satoshi's account.

[SomethingElse]

Satoshi being a mysteriously founder is okay.  People can live with that.  But Satoshi owning 10% is the elephant in the room that bitcoin fanatics are refusing to acknowledge or accept.  That their "trustless" tech actually requires a huge amount of trust in him.  

I happily acknowledge that satoshi could disrupt the market significantly and for a prolonged period.  However, he's not alone in this.

Bill Gates, for example, could easily cause more disruption if he dedicated his net worth to the cause.  He could buy bitcoins with seemingly no limit in sight and then crash the market at a moment of his choosing.  He could do this repeatedly, crashing at different times with different amounts.  Ultimately, he'd go broke, but we'd have chaos for quite some time.

If this possibility worries you, you really ought to get out of bitcoins now and into a much deeper and less volatile asset.

This I think is another reason why every week a new "Satoshi" thread pops up talking about him.  Some say, "let him be anonymous".  Well..... That doesn't work.  I don't want a person that has control over ALL my money being anonymous.  We all instinctively know with that much coin, his leverage is ridiculous.  And yes, he is still alive and on a computer.  He sent out a message recently.  Anything could happen.

What if satoshi revealed himself.  Would you be happier then?  What if two years later, he decided to crash the market.  Would it really make any difference that you could put a face to the act?

I also think that he is a good guy.  That he built bitcoin because he believed in it and he won't crash it.  But.... there is the problem.  If he really believes in having the ideal form of money "the bitcoin in the sky" then he knows that him having 10% is a big problem.  So why would a guy create a perfect money and then also have a flaw created in it.  The fact of the matter is, we just don't know.

There is a night/day difference between buying 10% and selling 10% of bitcoin.  To sell, means the price would crash.  To buy, means the price would shoot up.  I am not sure how high the price would go up if somebody tried to buy 10%, even if somebody could, but it would be well over 100,000 USD per coin. 

Also, we know Bill Gates and we know Warren Buffet.  We know their history, we know their motives, and we can understand their mind and fairly accurately predict what they might do.  Even if they tried to buy 1%, and I think it would be a huge deal, it would be well documented, and would be possible, but wouldn't go unnoticed.  The Winklevii actually do own 1% and it cost them a lot and that was when bitcoin was a joke to the world and was dirt cheap.  But it is okay that Winklevii own it, because we know very well who they are.  And it would be okay if Buffet or Gates bought because we know them and can understand them. 

We don't know Satoshi.  We don't know his/her/they real long term plan.  We don't know for sure why bitcoin was created.  It would be very easy for Satoshi to cash out. 

[SomethingElse]

If satoshi having 10% is a big problem then I imagine that Warren Buffet having 10% would also be a big problem.  Could you design a cryptocurrency as decentralised as Bitcoin which made it practically impossible for Warren Buffet, dedicating all of his resources, to acquire 10%?  I couldn't.

I think this is an excellent point.  So far I haven't seen anything better than bitcoin and that is why I put a lot of money in it.  Actually bitcoin is by far my biggest investment.  I believe in it that much.  I also don't know a better system to keep a Buffet from owning 10%.  I like bitcoin and I think it is great.  I also want to be honest and real too, it is not perfect.  The Satoshi situation requires huge trust in Satoshi, and this is ironic given it is a "trustless" system. 

[SomethingElse]

I'm pretty sure Theymos can come close to finding out a lot about Satoshi. Back in the early days, there were many PM's exchanged between satoshi and Gavin Andresen on this very forum. All Theymos has to do is check logs and IP's of Satoshi's account.

If I were Theymos, I would have already done that. Hahahaha. 

I just hope it was just only Theymos and not the NSA or hackers looking to compromise Satoshi.  Think with heartbleed out easy it would have been to compromise Theymos. 

[bryant.coleman]

Well, lets examine the possibilities in case Satoshi's coins are lost for ever (either Satoshi is dead, or he has lost the private keys). That means that out of the 13 million Bitcoins currently in circulation, some 8% are taken out. It will boost the value of the remaining 12 million Bitcoins.

[drawingthesun]

Well, lets examine the possibilities in case Satoshi's coins are lost for ever (either Satoshi is dead, or he has lost the private keys). That means that out of the 13 million Bitcoins currently in circulation, some 8% are taken out. It will boost the value of the remaining 12 million Bitcoins.

I think that some 3 million "lost" coins, including "Satoshi's" are already priced into the current market rate.

[Hughra]

or both. as there is no big player in the bitcoin world that didn't turn out to be a criminal, it's more likely that he's still alive. what do you think was satoshi's crime he went to prison for?

that fool chillen in Jamaica with millions..

[jbreher]

I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.  Or maybe I don't, but one of us is really wrong.  But I calculated the "buy walls"  of all the exchanges together.  That was including the bots and the fake numbers out of China and we get 30,000,000 USD on a good day.  Bitcoin right now is a 600 USD.  That means he would have to burn through 50,000 coins!  To crash the entire market down to 1 penny.  

Again, so what? If the price hits a penny, I have thousands of USD sidelined that I would -- with all due alacrity -- convert to bitcoin on very favorable terms. At a penny each, 930,000 bitcoins would only be $9,300. Unfortunately, however, I certainly don't think I'd have that buyer's market all to myself.

Again, the bloodbath would be over essentially instantaneously. And the price would shoot right back up to perhaps half the previous value. Then resume it's inevitable climb.

Just because funds aren't currently committed to buy orders does not mean they are not in play.

Incidentally, your calculation of $30M being only 50,000 BTC from a market price of $600 is an incorrect oversimplification. As the selling commenced, the price would drop, which would cause the number of bitcoins in $30M to be vastly higher than 50,000.

[CEG5952]

or both. as there is no big player in the bitcoin world that didn't turn out to be a criminal, it's more likely that he's still alive. what do you think was satoshi's crime he went to prison for?

LOL, what did he go to prison for? I don't think he's in prison. Didn't he come out and post that he was not Dorian Nakamoto, when that whole thing blew up? (I suppose his account could have been hacked)

[bryant.coleman]

I think that some 3 million "lost" coins, including "Satoshi's" are already priced into the current market rate.

Could you give me the source for this 3 million figure?

Most of the sources here talk about 6-7%, that is somewhere around the 1 million mark.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7253.0

[drawingthesun]

I think that some 3 million "lost" coins, including "Satoshi's" are already priced into the current market rate.

Could you give me the source for this 3 million figure?

Most of the sources here talk about 6-7%, that is somewhere around the 1 million mark.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7253.0

Yeah I think you're right.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316297.0

[bryant.coleman]

Yeah I think you're right.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316297.0

Well.. rpietila is giving a lower estimate at 4% of all the coins in circulation (that is around BTC500,000). IMO, I think he grossly under-estimated the numbers, but still think that it won't be as high as 3 million.

[illymoka]

I can't understand why so many people on this forum talk bad on Satoshi or even hate him? He created and provided us the revolutionary thing, didn't he?

[SomethingElse]

I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.  Or maybe I don't, but one of us is really wrong.  But I calculated the "buy walls"  of all the exchanges together.  That was including the bots and the fake numbers out of China and we get 30,000,000 USD on a good day.  Bitcoin right now is a 600 USD.  That means he would have to burn through 50,000 coins!  To crash the entire market down to 1 penny.  

Again, so what? If the price hits a penny, I have thousands of USD sidelined that I would -- with all due alacrity -- convert to bitcoin on very favorable terms. At a penny each, 930,000 bitcoins would only be $9,300. Unfortunately, however, I certainly don't think I'd have that buyer's market all to myself.

Again, the bloodbath would be over essentially instantaneously. And the price would shoot right back up to perhaps half the previous value. Then resume it's inevitable climb.

Just because funds aren't currently committed to buy orders does not mean they are not in play.

Incidentally, your calculation of $30M being only 50,000 BTC from a market price of $600 is an incorrect oversimplification. As the selling commenced, the price would drop, which would cause the number of bitcoins in $30M to be vastly higher than 50,000.

Okay, good point. 

[teukon]

There is a night/day difference between buying 10% and selling 10% of bitcoin.  To sell, means the price would crash.  To buy, means the price would shoot up.  I am not sure how high the price would go up if somebody tried to buy 10%, even if somebody could, but it would be well over 100,000 USD per coin. 

My point was: Once a person has finished buying 10% of all bitcoins, they'd be in the same position as satoshi is now.  The attack by a dollar-Billionaire would involve buying today and crashing at some indeterminant future date.

If we're worried about satoshi for his savings, we should also be worried about the potential Hunt Brothers of Bitcoin; wealthy individuals that are considering an attempt to corner the bitcoin market anonymously.  I don't see how satoshi could possibly have designed Bitcoin to prevent this scenario without sacrificing a lot of what makes Bitcoin great.

Also, we know Bill Gates and we know Warren Buffet.  We know their history, we know their motives, and we can understand their mind and fairly accurately predict what they might do.  Even if they tried to buy 1%, and I think it would be a huge deal, it would be well documented, and would be possible, but wouldn't go unnoticed.  The Winklevii actually do own 1% and it cost them a lot and that was when bitcoin was a joke to the world and was dirt cheap.  But it is okay that Winklevii own it, because we know very well who they are.  And it would be okay if Buffet or Gates bought because we know them and can understand them. 

We don't know Satoshi.  We don't know his/her/they real long term plan.  We don't know for sure why bitcoin was created.  It would be very easy for Satoshi to cash out.

This is a fair point.  The better we understand the intentions of the larger holders, the less risk there is to holding Bitcoin.  In this sense, knowing who Satoshi is and what he intends to do would be beneficial.  However, any cryptocurrency which indirectly required all large holders to be well-studied public figures would be inferior to Bitcoin on a far more fundamental level.

Note: I'm not accusing you of such a claim.  My primary criticism of jabo38's post was in the summary:

...he knows that him having 10% is a big problem.  So why would a guy create a perfect money and then also have a flaw created in it.

I certainly agree that satoshi not having all this power would reduce risk for bitcoin holders.  However, this is very much not a flaw in the creation of Bitcoin.  Indeed, the freedom to privately acquire and hold 10% of all bitcoins is a design feature*!

*At least: a simple and natural consequence of intentional design features.

[bryant.coleman]

I can't understand why so many people on this forum talk bad on Satoshi or even hate him? He created and provided us the revolutionary thing, didn't he?

May be they are the ones, who bought Bitcoin at $1,200 per coin. 

They are simply jealous at those guys, who bought Bitcoin in 2010 for $0.001 a piece. And since Satoshi owns the maximum number of coins (close to 1 million), they are also jealous towards him. 

[Mr Tea]

I reckon he's probably just getting on with his life and doesnt want the responsibility and stress that comes with being Satoshi.

[Brangdon]

Satoshi might be an ET who returned to his cloaked spaceship and continued his travels to start Bitcoin on another planet.
If/when he returns you will need at least 10 BTC to be invited on his next flight into deep space.

I think he was human, but that he digitised his personality and then uploaded it. Now it's secretly hidden in the block-chain, distributed through-out the world, his thoughts piggy-backing on transactions. Far from being dead, he's made himself immortal.

[CryptoKilla]

I highly doubt he is either dead or in prison. I'm sure he is on his own private island with hookers and blow having a blast!

[bryant.coleman]

I highly doubt he is either dead or in prison. I'm sure he is on his own private island with hookers and blow having a blast!

Possible. But it is not easy to evade tax, if the BTC to fiat conversion is in the magnitude of millions of USD. But also, if he is 70 or 80 year old, it will be difficult for him to have the blast with hookers. 

[jc01480]

I highly doubt he is either dead or in prison. I'm sure he is on his own private island with hookers and blow having a blast!

Possible. But it is not easy to evade tax, if the BTC to fiat conversion is in the magnitude of millions of USD. But also, if he is 70 or 80 year old, it will be difficult for him to have the blast with hookers. 

Have you HEARD about the STD's among seniors?  OMG...

[silentgwad]

As there is no big player in the bitcoin world that didn't turn out to be a criminal

That troll 

Well, in this post-gox era, seems like most of the big players (Coinbase,Bitpay,Xappo CEO's) are legitimate and experienced professionals

[Quibbler28]

How can he be both dead, and in prison??

[teukon]

Actually bitcoin is by far my biggest investment.  I believe in it that much.  I also don't know a better system to keep a Buffet from owning 10%.  I like bitcoin and I think it is great.  I also want to be honest and real too, it is not perfect.  The Satoshi situation requires huge trust in Satoshi, and this is ironic given it is a "trustless" system.

+1

Anyone with serious wealth in Bitcoin is going to want to be completely honest about the shortcomings and risks involved.  There are very real uncertainties which are all too often ignored by overzealous fanboys with little skin in the game.

I wouldn't quite qualify the satoshi situation as "requiring huge trust" myself, but that's mainly because I consider such an event unlikely relative to some nasty market shocks that could follow particular announcements by central bank or government representatives or a serious network issue reaching mainstream attention.

[Unpopped]

I think he is probably just hiding somewhere and never wants to be found.

[ShakyhandsBTCer]

Satoshi is no longer a person.

Satoshi is an entity that does not exist in the real world that helps bitcoin survive it's problems.

[loewen.brad]

There's really only one thing I can think of as to why his coins haven't moved. He's saving them to give to his family as an inheritance. Plain and simple. He knows that bitcoin is still in its infancy and that selling them now would be a mistake as the technology (and the price) hasn't fully matured yet. Selling off now would mean leaving possibly billions of dollars on the table, which he obviously doesn't want to do.

[chaosPT]

He is not dead or in prison , if you are holding so many coin would you go annomynos ?

I think every one will do , go some where else which not much people know about him and have a great live back after 10 years 

[justusranvier]

The only thing that makes me wonder if hes dead is the fact that he hasnt spent any of his coins. I just cant understand that.

Everybody talks about "Satoshi's coins" as if the only one he has were the ones he mined.

Why would that necessarily be the case?

Suppose Satoshi was independently wealthy before he invented Bitcoin. Maybe he'd already had a pretty successful career before he decided to finish the great work of the cypherpunks that nobody had quite managed to get right yet.

If that were the case, he could have purchased the majority of his coins in the nearly days instead of mining them, so that he could spend them freely without everybody freaking out.

[Gianluca95]

Satoshi lives, but we can not know where does he live, he isn't in prison or dead, he enjoys his money now

[ShakyhandsBTCer]

Satoshi lives, but we can not know where does he live, he isn't in prison or dead, he enjoys his money now

He would actually have a very hard time in enjoying his money unless he mined coins that we do not know about.

if he were to try to move/sell the coins that are coins that are believed to been mined by him then he would likely not be able to stay anon.

He may have been an early adopter of GPU mining and/or did consulting for ASIC devs and made money that way.

[ajareselde]

There is no need for any of us actualy to know who he realy is.
Bitcoins point is anonimity, and he is the perfect example.
Just wondering how long will it take for another douche to claim he is Satoshi

[joshraban76]

I can't find what is the main point of this topic.

It won't add to us anything, lets just mind our business.

If he meant to appear again, he will, other than that, we have to suit our own-selves.

[loewen.brad]

Just wondering how long will it take for another douche to claim he is Satoshi

I am Satoshi Nakamoto.

[makebitcoin]

With regards to Satoshi not spending the (first) coins he mined. It's obvious that the designer of Bitcoin is very intelligent thus why wouldn't he already have a ton of wealth/fiat money before Bitcoin. No need to sell Bitcoin if you truly believe in it (and of course he is the number one believer) and you already have enough fiat to satisfy your living needs.