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Author Topic: BitCoin Liberation Army  (Read 6001 times)
cypherdoc
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April 29, 2011, 11:33:57 PM
 #21

PM's are a play on armageddon where the whole internet gets junked b/c of severe worldwide depression and deflation.  this would do btc in for sure.  i just don't think we get that bad, altho it IS going to get bad.

I've never quite understood this. If we're talking a Mad Max type situation, is anybody going to want gold, except perhaps for its industrial uses? I think oil, food, or other useful consumables will be in much higher demand.

before btc came along, i was a big believer in Bob Prechter's theory of dollar down, everything else up (incl PM's); dollar up, everything else down.  if u look at mkts u can pretty much see this is exactly what has happened since the advent of the Fed and even more tightly correlated since 1971 when the gold std was revoked.  paradoxically, acc. to Prechter, if we go into a depression (we had a small whiff of this in 2008), the dollar will skyrocket and everything else will crash incl. PM's.  If you look at FerBanke's actions in light of this theory, u clearly see he believes we r on the brink of severe deflation and depression which is why he has pulled out all the stops and more in inflating the money supply.  amazingly he has sparked the greatest stock mkt rally ever since the bottom Mar 2009.  the question is whether we're in another bubble. i think we are.  BTC was spawned by Satoshi precisely b/c of worldwide central bank reflation.  so it is an inflationary phenomenon as far as i'm concerned and certainly will flourish in that environment.  the real question is what happens to BTC if everything goes into reverse and we re enter the deflationary spiral b/c some bubble blows up somewhere like the Middle East or a European default.  it certainly could crash as well as the dollar skyrockets.  why would the dollar skyrocket.  b/c 60% of world debt is USD and would have to be liquidated severely contracting USD money supply and paradoxically increasing its value.  up until recently i believed BTC would crash as well but i'm increasingly leaning against that view.  why?  b/c i think the drive towards BTC popularity will be b/c of its inherent STABILITY.  the problem with the USD is its INSTABILITY with a bias to the downside.  every business owner incl myself hates this volatility making it hard to make longterm business decisions.  the Fed doesn't understand this.  i don't think the 2nd Great Depression takes down the internet or smartphone technology and will be the winner in the end vs gold and USD.

sorry forgot a word:  i think BTC will be the winner in the end to USD and gold.
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April 29, 2011, 11:51:25 PM
 #22

i am very bullish on bitcoin, i am not saying it has to be backed by silver, just pointing out that they have similar characteristics. both seem a good place to store value, and if your investment is split beetween these two options you are hedging your bets whatever the outcome.

If bitcoin is a  roaring success and the dollar dives silver will still be worth loads in bit coin as it is consumed in all those electronics in a good economy.

if bitcoin fails and we do have a massive depression silver will have more use and purchasing power than gold.

 Gold has no use and it is horded, therefore there is lots of it now above ground.
there is less silver above ground than there is gold, as it has mostly been consumed.

therefore silver would be worth more than gold if the price was not artificially manipulated down by the market makers dumping silver paper.

when these guys are exposed, silver will return to its true value as expressed in food, land, or homes to live in ....not usd.

I don't think it is too far out of the box to say bitcoin will meet parity with 1 oz of silver.
and a usd will be equal to some micro of a bitcoin or something very similar like www.witcoin.com

imagine what this system would be like if facebook rewarded everyone a micro payment for the valuable information they enter and started facecoin.

that would be the end of bitcoin, but i would still have my silver to buy facecoin with.

they are and they aren't similar.  both are good stores of value.  but silver can only be spent locally in a face to face transaction.  btc can be transmitted around the world in a flash.  the closest real world example to btc that i could find is m-pesa in Kenya.  its smartphone money controlled by the mobile operators to the exclusion of banks and cc operators.  the adoption rate has been exponential b/c the father of a Kenyan family working on one side of the country can SMS his earnings to his family on the other side of the country.  he used to have to ride a donkey across the country to hand deliver the money or pay a trusted courier which often resulted in his money being stolen.  the ability to transact across long distances is crucial to the success of future money.  Huwala is another example of moving money long distances and depends on trust.  where the trust factor of transporting btc to a merchant in exchange for goods can potentially result in fraud, i don't think it will be as big an issue as everyone thinks.  with services as WOT i think most txs will be honored w/o problems b/c any self respecting business wants to be successful and grow.  most ppl realize that fraud is a dead end.  an interesting phenomenon that i am noticing in these days of hard times is that merchants are bending over backwards to be helpful to me.  i have numerous times taken back merchandise to Best Buy, Apple, or Home Depot w/o a receipt and they have honored the return or cash back w/o any hassle.  my business vendors have been cooperative in reducing rates on my request.  once businesses like these realize they can dump the 4% cc fees on every tx, they will embrace btc IMHO.  another advantage of btc is its divisibility and scalability.  how are you going to pay for a loaf of bread with a silver eagle? 
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April 30, 2011, 12:21:37 AM
 #23

i am very bullish on bitcoin, i am not saying it has to be backed by silver, just pointing out that they have similar characteristics. both seem a good place to store value, and if your investment is split beetween these two options you are hedging your bets whatever the outcome.

If bitcoin is a  roaring success and the dollar dives silver will still be worth loads in bit coin as it is consumed in all those electronics in a good economy.

if bitcoin fails and we do have a massive depression silver will have more use and purchasing power than gold.

 Gold has no use and it is horded, therefore there is lots of it now above ground.
there is less silver above ground than there is gold, as it has mostly been consumed.

therefore silver would be worth more than gold if the price was not artificially manipulated down by the market makers dumping silver paper.

when these guys are exposed, silver will return to its true value as expressed in food, land, or homes to live in ....not usd.

I don't think it is too far out of the box to say bitcoin will meet parity with 1 oz of silver.
and a usd will be equal to some micro of a bitcoin or something very similar like www.witcoin.com

imagine what this system would be like if facebook rewarded everyone a micro payment for the valuable information they enter and started facecoin.

that would be the end of bitcoin, but i would still have my silver to buy facecoin with.

they are and they aren't similar.  both are good stores of value.  but silver can only be spent locally in a face to face transaction.  btc can be transmitted around the world in a flash.  the closest real world example to btc that i could find is m-pesa in Kenya.  its smartphone money controlled by the mobile operators to the exclusion of banks and cc operators.  the adoption rate has been exponential b/c the father of a Kenyan family working on one side of the country can SMS his earnings to his family on the other side of the country.  he used to have to ride a donkey across the country to hand deliver the money or pay a trusted courier which often resulted in his money being stolen.  the ability to transact across long distances is crucial to the success of future money.  Huwala is another example of moving money long distances and depends on trust.  where the trust factor of transporting btc to a merchant in exchange for goods can potentially result in fraud, i don't think it will be as big an issue as everyone thinks.  with services as WOT i think most txs will be honored w/o problems b/c any self respecting business wants to be successful and grow.  most ppl realize that fraud is a dead end.  an interesting phenomenon that i am noticing in these days of hard times is that merchants are bending over backwards to be helpful to me.  i have numerous times taken back merchandise to Best Buy, Apple, or Home Depot w/o a receipt and they have honored the return or cash back w/o any hassle.  my business vendors have been cooperative in reducing rates on my request.  once businesses like these realize they can dump the 4% cc fees on every tx, they will embrace btc IMHO.  another advantage of btc is its divisibility and scalability.  how are you going to pay for a loaf of bread with a silver eagle? 

well face to face and local is where most of my trading activities are happening on a day to day basis.
 Finding what you have to say interesting,and appreciate the extra info on the other systems.
i have been thinking hard about how to introduce businessmen to bit coin in my local area.
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6644.0

I was thinking of buying the bread with the bitcoin actually and that second home in some remote region with the 1 oz silver.

Like my input ? inspire any ideas ? Tips gratefully accepted in Devcoin here:16tLwjjyTgGKWfh6xLnD5k4E7zWpHq4hLC
cypherdoc
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April 30, 2011, 12:55:31 AM
 #24

i am very bullish on bitcoin, i am not saying it has to be backed by silver, just pointing out that they have similar characteristics. both seem a good place to store value, and if your investment is split beetween these two options you are hedging your bets whatever the outcome.

If bitcoin is a  roaring success and the dollar dives silver will still be worth loads in bit coin as it is consumed in all those electronics in a good economy.

if bitcoin fails and we do have a massive depression silver will have more use and purchasing power than gold.

 Gold has no use and it is horded, therefore there is lots of it now above ground.
there is less silver above ground than there is gold, as it has mostly been consumed.

therefore silver would be worth more than gold if the price was not artificially manipulated down by the market makers dumping silver paper.

when these guys are exposed, silver will return to its true value as expressed in food, land, or homes to live in ....not usd.

I don't think it is too far out of the box to say bitcoin will meet parity with 1 oz of silver.
and a usd will be equal to some micro of a bitcoin or something very similar like www.witcoin.com

imagine what this system would be like if facebook rewarded everyone a micro payment for the valuable information they enter and started facecoin.

that would be the end of bitcoin, but i would still have my silver to buy facecoin with.

they are and they aren't similar.  both are good stores of value.  but silver can only be spent locally in a face to face transaction.  btc can be transmitted around the world in a flash.  the closest real world example to btc that i could find is m-pesa in Kenya.  its smartphone money controlled by the mobile operators to the exclusion of banks and cc operators.  the adoption rate has been exponential b/c the father of a Kenyan family working on one side of the country can SMS his earnings to his family on the other side of the country.  he used to have to ride a donkey across the country to hand deliver the money or pay a trusted courier which often resulted in his money being stolen.  the ability to transact across long distances is crucial to the success of future money.  Huwala is another example of moving money long distances and depends on trust.  where the trust factor of transporting btc to a merchant in exchange for goods can potentially result in fraud, i don't think it will be as big an issue as everyone thinks.  with services as WOT i think most txs will be honored w/o problems b/c any self respecting business wants to be successful and grow.  most ppl realize that fraud is a dead end.  an interesting phenomenon that i am noticing in these days of hard times is that merchants are bending over backwards to be helpful to me.  i have numerous times taken back merchandise to Best Buy, Apple, or Home Depot w/o a receipt and they have honored the return or cash back w/o any hassle.  my business vendors have been cooperative in reducing rates on my request.  once businesses like these realize they can dump the 4% cc fees on every tx, they will embrace btc IMHO.  another advantage of btc is its divisibility and scalability.  how are you going to pay for a loaf of bread with a silver eagle? 

well face to face and local is where most of my trading activities are happening on a day to day basis.
 Finding what you have to say interesting,and appreciate the extra info on the other systems.
i have been thinking hard about how to introduce businessmen to bit coin in my local area.
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6644.0

I was thinking of buying the bread with the bitcoin actually and that second home in some remote region with the 1 oz silver.


not as local as u think.  how do u pay your telephone, electricity, and phone bills?  u either online bank it or write a check and mail it to some far away processing ctr.  how u gonna do that with Silver Eagles?  of course you 'll ask the same of btc.  but look what happened in Kenya.  the banks and cc's were screaming about not being in on the game btwn mobile operators and customers.  the Kenyan gov't looked at it and despite tremendous pressure voted to allow M pesa to continue b/c it was the cheaper way to go for the ppl.  this is what gives me hope for btc.  the lowest cost system should win out in the end.  i can foresee a future where you'll pay your telephone, electricity, and phone bills with btc.
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