Evidences of chechens fighting in Ukraine?

[Trading]

There seem to be mounting evidences that the russians that were in Crimea and are now in eastern Ukraine are Chechens from the disbanded Vostok Battalion (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27633117).

I'm taking this news from BBC with some prudence, since BBC hasn't been completely balanced on the conflict. But the article seem credible.

I think no one will deny that there are armed russians citizens in Ukraine. It seems about 30 of them were returned home, dead, after the take over of the Donetsk airport by the Ukrainian army. Some of the leaders of the rebels are russian citizens.

One of these soldiers said they received orders from Kadyrov (the pro-Moscow strong man in Chechnya) to go to Ukraine. Kadyrov didn't deny there were Chechens in Ukraine, but said he didn't give any such order (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27633117).

Would anyone believe these more or less mercenaries went there on their free will? Or that Kadyrov would decide that without superior instructions?

[Balthazar]

According to Kadirov, there are only 14 volunteers from the Chechen Republic, and 4 of them were wounded. Also there are 74000 volunteers, who are waiting for his order. It's like a revenge for them, because members of ukrainian UNA-UNSO organization have participated in chechen wars on the Dudaev side, they've killed many peope who were loyal to legitimate power.

Kadirov can't give such orders as the head of state, without authorization from president and federation council. But he able to resign and then give this order, people will follow him...

P.S. "Echo of Moscow" radio have said the same about 30 dead chechens... That's enough to make me sceptic, because these guys are "lying slightly more frequently than always" (c) Russian folklor.

[bryant.coleman]

First of all, many of the journalists in the Western media mistook the Elite Vostok Brigade of the Donetsk People's Army for the Chechen Vostok Battalion (which is actually controlled by the Chechen clan-leader Badrudi Yamadayev, who is fiercely opposed to Ramzan Kadyrov). The Donetsk Vostok brigade is composed of former Ukrainian soldiers, and there are no foreigners among them.

[Nemo1024]

The commander of Donetsk battalion "Vostok" confirmed that a few volunteers from Chechenia helped local resistance fighters, but they have left now. He further stressed that they were volunteers, not sent by Kadyrov:
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/06/02/vostok/

[Balthazar]

http://m.lenta.ru/news/2014/06/01/chechnya/

Another article about chechen volunteers.

[bryant.coleman]

The commander of Donetsk battalion "Vostok" confirmed that a few volunteers from Chechenia helped local resistance fighters, but they have left now.

When the Australian and American mercenaries from Greystone landed in the Donbass, no one was complaining. Why make so much of a fuss now? The foreigners still make up for less than 1% of the resistance fighters.

[Trading]

I don't know the truth. Contrary to some, I have no clear ideas on the situation on eastern Ukraine.

However:

1) As in Crimea, there are armed and organized russians there, much more than 14. It's of no importance if they are organized in the battalion X or Y.

2) I have serious doubts that with all that organization and arms that they are real voluntaries. Voluntaries are people that decide to go fight on a personal decision. Usually, they arrive unarmed and with no organization. Someone organized them, paid them and gave them weapons.

3) Kadyrov denies sending them and says that he can't control chechens, but he also says he knows exactly how many are in Ukraine: just 14. For someone that says he isn't controlling anyone, he seems to be very shore about how many are in Ukraine.

4) There are reports of fighting in one Ukrainian border because of an attempt of crossing of a military convoy from Russia, even if Russia denied that (seems a more or less balanced news: http://news.yahoo.com/chechen-leader-denies-sending-troops-ukraine-120612671.html). But if Russia has nothing to do with those convoys, how can she deny them? Can't those convoys be passing the borders out of its control and knowledge?

[bryant.coleman]

This is a partial list of the peoplw, who lost their lives during the Donetsk Airport Attack. There are no Chechens among them.

http://www.segodnia.ru/content/140108

1. Бeлoycoвa Haтaлья Aлeкcaндpoвнa - 1962 г. p., Natalya Belousova.
2. Бopoвик Фeдop Ивaнoвич - 1943 г. p., Borovik Fedor.
3. Бpюxaнoв Pycлaн Пeтpoвич - 1972 г. p., Bruchanov Ruslan Petrovich.
4. Бyдapин Юpий Hикoлaeвич, 1970 г. p., Budarin Yuri.
5. Гpeчкo Cepгeй Bлaдимиpoвич - 1955 г. p., Grechko Sergey.
6. Дaдaeв Mypaт Лaмaлиeвич - 1983 г. p., Dadaev Lamalievich Murat.
7. Кийчик Bлaдимиp Eвгeньeвич - 1951 г. p., Kiychik Vladimir Evgeneyivich.
8. Кyзнeцoв Maкcим Oлeгoвич, 1985 г. p., Maxim Olegovich Kuznetsov.
9. Maлый Aлeкceй - oк. 1975 г.p., Alexei Malyi.
10. Oбyx Кoнcтaнтин Aлeкcaндpoвич, 1987 г. p., Obukh Konstantin.
11. Пoгpeбняк Poдиoн Bлaдимиpoвич, 1993 г. p., Pogrebnyak Rodion V..
12. Пoгpeбняк Poмaн Aлeкcaндpoвич - 1993 г. p., Pogrebnyak Roman Aleksandrovich.
13. Cтeпин Дмитpий Aлeкcaндpoвич - 1992 г. p, Dmitry Stepin.
14. Cтpюмoв Aдлaн Aбдy Кapим - 1971 г. p., Stryumov Adlan Abdou Karim.
15. Tитopeнкo Maкcим Bлaдимиpoвич - 1978 г. p., Titorenko Maxim.
16. Языбчaн Игopь Aндpoникoвич, 1987 г. p., Yazybchan Igor Andronikovich.
17. Бeтaнeдoв Джaмбyлaт Лaн-Aлиeвич 1986 г. p., Betanedov Dzhambulat Lan Aliyevich.
18. Ивaнoв Cepгeй Bлaдимиpoвич - 1976 г.p., Sergey Ivanov.
19. Hocoв Pycлaн Bacильeвич - 1987 г. p., Ruslan V. Nosov.

[Trading]

Their nationality is revealed in that list?

Anyway, some of the rebel sources were talking about 100 casualties, so it's to early to tell.

But, as stated, my only sources are the news, I don't know what is going on.

[needbmw]

Their nationality is revealed in that list?

Chechens have very specific surnames, Dadaev Murat is the only who could be Chechen from the list.
Anyway the list is not full.

[bryant.coleman]

Their nationality is revealed in that list?
Anyway, some of the rebel sources were talking about 100 casualties, so it's to early to tell.

Chechen clan names are usually used as the surname (and can be identified easily), and it seems none of the names in the given list are Chechens. More than half of them have ethnic Ukrainian surnames, such as Grechko, Kiychik, Obukh, Pogrebnyak, and Titorenko.

[Balthazar]

Their nationality is revealed in that list?

Chechens have very specific surnames, Dadaev Murat is the only who could be Chechen from the list.
Anyway the list is not full.

Crimean tatars and kazan tatars could have such names too.

[bryant.coleman]

Crimean tatars and kazan tatars could have such names too.

It should also be remembered that some 15,000 Meskhetian Turks (Ahiska Turks) are living in the Donbass region. They also have similar sounding names. Anyway.. it is just one person among 2 dozen others.

[niothor]

Their nationality is revealed in that list?

Chechens have very specific surnames, Dadaev Murat is the only who could be Chechen from the list.
Anyway the list is not full.

Crimean tatars and kazan tatars could have such names too.

I'm pretty sure that if i'm ever going to participate in this kind of mess , carrying a gun and shooting people in a foreign country , I'm going to make sure I'm carrying my real ID with me ....and a phone with my fb account.

[bryant.coleman]

I'm pretty sure that if i'm ever going to participate in this kind of mess , carrying a gun and shooting people in a foreign country , I'm going to make sure I'm carrying my real ID with me ....and a phone with my fb account.

May be. But already two dozen of the slain men were identified, and all of them were Ukrainian citizens. May be a few foreign volunteers were dead too, but that doesn't take away the fact that the vast majority of the casualties were among the Ukrainians.

[niothor]

I'm pretty sure that if i'm ever going to participate in this kind of mess , carrying a gun and shooting people in a foreign country , I'm going to make sure I'm carrying my real ID with me ....and a phone with my fb account.

May be. But already two dozen of the slain men were identified, and all of them were Ukrainian citizens. May be a few foreign volunteers were dead too, but that doesn't take away the fact that the vast majority of the casualties were among the Ukrainians.

What puzzles me is that you were so angry on any western volunteers in that region but you're ok with Chechen foreign volunteers that fight one the other side.

You've turn 101% into a Russian promoter lately .

Check you're posts a few months ago , you were far more impartial , or better , stop quoting rt that much .

[bryant.coleman]

You've turn 101% into a Russian promoter lately .

Check you're posts a few months ago , you were far more impartial , or better , stop quoting rt that much .

If I have turned to a Russian promoter, it is because I think the truth is on their side. For the past few weeks, I have seen atrocities on a massive scale conducted in the Donbass by the Kiev junta. The citizens of Donbass are suffering, and I can't ignore it.

Which country uses fighter jets and helicopter gunships to bombard the residential areas inhabited by its own citizens?

[niothor]

You've turn 101% into a Russian promoter lately .

Check you're posts a few months ago , you were far more impartial , or better , stop quoting rt that much .

If I have turned to a Russian promoter, it is because I think the truth is on their side. For the past few weeks, I have seen atrocities on a massive scale conducted in the Donbass by the Kiev junta. The citizens of Donbass are suffering, and I can't ignore it.

Which country uses fighter jets and helicopter gunships to bombard the residential areas inhabited by its own citizens?

No , you have seen news and pictures about it.
Just like we have seen those in the us propaganda about Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan (from both the us and Russia) and many mores.

Unlike you , I don't have pagan on the ignore list and some of his posts are actually showing where the Russian propaganda fails.I don't believe what any side is posting on their news channel. The truth is somewhere in between.

I have seen so many news on rt and they propaganda about my own country that I think 10 times before believing what they say just like I don't trust what daily mail is writing about my country.

[Trading]

I can understand nationalism (even if it's the kids disease of mankind, as Einstein said) and since there is a crises with the West, I also understand some lack of impartiality.

But some of the members of the forum seem to think that their readers are completely stupid and will believe everything they post. That the only point is postings things favorable to Russia, even if completely biased or blatantly false. If they were intelligent nationalists, that tried to convince on reason, even if under a russian perspective, they could make much more to defend russian interests.

[niothor]

I can understand nationalism (even if it's the kids disease of mankind, as Einstein said) and since there is a crises with the West, I also understand some lack of impartiality.

But some of the members of the forum seem to think that their readers are completely stupid and will believe everything they post. That the only point is postings things favorable to Russia, even if completely biased or blatantly false. If they were intelligent nationalists, that tried to convince on reason, even if under a russian perspective, they could make much more to defend russian interests.

Wait till Russia does the same as PBOC or even worse , I wonder if there will be still supporters for Russian policy between bitcoiners.