Speculators causing immense price swings: go fuck yourselves

[ineededausername]

at least point me to some automated software that works well with the APIs of some exchanges. as I said before I dont know how to program. maybe some kind of integration of API commands, as an addon to the bitcoin client, would be a good way to help people avoiding situations like these.

you would not be raging if you just made a limit order and sent your bitcoin.  It would automatically sell when your account received BTC.

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[juggalodarkclow]

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[Otoh]

Fuck all of you dipshit motherfuckers who have the power to make my assets lose over 10% overnight. I never even had a fucking chance to sell. Problem is I need the cash right now, not the coins, and am forced to sell cheap.

I hope you get all raped in hell for eternity.

um, don't you check things out before parking your cash in them, Bitcoin is famous for it's volatility with price swings of 25 to 30% in very short time periods being the norm, if you have a need for your cash to not do this to you then perhaps you shouldn't be putting it in to Bitcoins, simple - US $ do a good job of just draining away slowly without daily 10% leaps & bounds up & down

Don't blame others for your lack of due diligence, it just compounds your failure, live & learn

lol at hoping the 'Fucktard bitch' you owe doesn't mind you being in default & running the tab on the gyrations of Bitcoin's wild chances of paying him back

[RandyMarsh]

1. dump money into bitcoin without learning the market or the functionality/quirks of the exchanges
2. lose money
3. complain
4. ?
5. profit

if you figure out the ?? let us know

[guywhogotgoxed]

Those who argue that there would have not been a rally to begin with (i.e. without leveraging) are kidding themselves.  

Here's my stance on the leverage debate.

Momentum is the biggest part of any price movement.  You can see this very clearly in the charts... the big trends last for months.  If we had not had leverage, we would have had a slower rise (and perhaps even from a lower bottom), but the price would have kept rising instead of running into a brick wall.  We definitely could have gotten past $7 without Bitcoinica.

sorry friend but you are assuming things that never happened. we have no idea what would happen if bitcoinica wasnt here. (btc price fluctuated wildly before bitcoinica.)

Coming into bitcoin with any sort of dependence on its fiat value is foolhardy, and can only be counter-balanced by directing all aggression toward diligently learning the market, even if you never speculated on anything, and even if you'd rather not speculate.  This is a hard fact I have learned through experience.

tldr -- nut up or shut up.

theres not much to learn when all I did was decide not to wait for 6 confirmations, and went to sleep instead. thats like saying I deserve to lose money if Im not holding it tightly with both hands, 24/7.

now fuck off trying to talk to me like if I dont know how this works. this was just simply another fuckup making people not want to do business in btc. in all likelihood, this is causing most people to not want to use btc.

the first rule of eve is dont fly what you can afford to lose, yes that is eve-online rule and if that apply on a game also apply on real life


also grow up, many of us the speculators did lose money got mad and so on but i dint see ppl insulting other ppl just because they made a bad decision  

do you mean my decision of wanting to sleep, 3am in the morning, instead of waiting for 6 confirmations, was a bad decision?

also, I dont care if other speculators dont go around insulting others for their losses. Im going to tell you assholes that you are assholes anyway.

at least point me to some automated software that works well with the APIs of some exchanges. as I said before I dont know how to program. maybe some kind of integration of API commands, as an addon to the bitcoin client, would be a good way to help people avoiding situations like these.

you would not be raging if you just made a limit order and sent your bitcoin.  It would automatically sell when your account received BTC.

intersango doesnt let me place orders without coins in my acct. gox does, but you know, Ive been goxed and wont give in and use the damn exchange again. no way that french fuck in japan will make any money off me again.

Well, would you be just as angry if the price had jumped to $6.50?

Maybe there is a way to do it quicker for people in your situation.

no, I would have thought "why are these idiots giving me more money than I ask for?" because it feels completely unreal that the price is moving so rapidly. how the fuck is the btc economy going to work if I cant survive without having a bot doing all the moves for me?
as I said before, I dont want to profit that way, because when I do, one way or another the extra cash is coming from some other poor fellow.

at least point me to some automated software that works well with the APIs of some exchanges. as I said before I dont know how to program. maybe some kind of integration of API commands, as an addon to the bitcoin client, would be a good way to help people avoiding situations like these.

Agreed, it would be useful. There is probably a simple bot like this available somewhere. Also, like someone else said, you realize that selling 100 bitcoins is going to move the market right? Doing it right now would drop the value 10 cents.

that is, if I sell into the bids. I know very well not to do this, and place asks close to the bids, and wait (like a civilized person).

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[the joint]

Those who argue that there would have not been a rally to begin with (i.e. without leveraging) are kidding themselves.  

Here's my stance on the leverage debate.

Momentum is the biggest part of any price movement.  You can see this very clearly in the charts... the big trends last for months.  If we had not had leverage, we would have had a slower rise (and perhaps even from a lower bottom), but the price would have kept rising instead of running into a brick wall.  We definitely could have gotten past $7 without Bitcoinica.

I've said it before, but with Bitcoin if you're smart enough it's relatively easy to "beat the market."

This isn't the stock market.  There's countless fewer variables to consider and as such it's infinitely easier to isolate market variables.  This also means that the variables you can isolate have a much more deterministic impact on the market.  Deconstructing the Bitcoin market compared to the stock market is like someone asking you to guess the number of jellybeans in a jar vs. the number of jellybeans in a swimming pool just by glancing at them.

The ONLY time I've gotten somewhat fucked was a few weeks ago when everything snowballed on Bitcoinica.  Why did I get fucked?  I wasn't even aware that the asterisk could be an issue.  Well, it's turned out to be a huge issue.  The downward movement today was completely expected and that's why I didn't lose anything.  But seriously, Bitcoinica's gotta figure out its reserve issues.

The Bitcoin market is a system.  All systems need homeostasis to stabilize, and that means balancing systemic input and output.  Bitcoinica really fucks with the input and output.

[guywhogotgoxed]

Fuck all of you dipshit motherfuckers who have the power to make my assets lose over 10% overnight. I never even had a fucking chance to sell. Problem is I need the cash right now, not the coins, and am forced to sell cheap.

I hope you get all raped in hell for eternity.

um, don't you check things out before parking your cash in them, Bitcoin is famous for it's volatility with price swings of 25 to 30% in very short time periods being the norm, if you have a need for your cash to not do this to you then perhaps you shouldn't be putting it in to Bitcoins, simple - US $ do a good job of just draining away slowly without daily 10% leaps & bounds up & down

Don't blame others for your lack of due diligence, it just compounds your failure, live & learn

lol at hoping the 'Fucktard bitch' you owe doesn't mind you being in default & running the tab on the gyrations of Bitcoins wild chances of paying him back

hell get his money, now I just have to make up with an extra $100 through wire or something.
as Ive said before, I have done my due diligence, I just happened to end up not selling some coins instantly, and sleeping over it. trust me, next time I wont be going to sleep when I hold coins, cause I know speculating fucks are out there to fuck me over any moment.

[Otoh]

Fuck all of you dipshit motherfuckers who have the power to make my assets lose over 10% overnight. I never even had a fucking chance to sell. Problem is I need the cash right now, not the coins, and am forced to sell cheap.

I hope you get all raped in hell for eternity.

it was Bruce what done it & he's totally behind your punishing agenda too I'm sure

[bb113]

One last thing, if it wasn't for the speculators how long do you think you would have to wait around for someone to buy your bitcoins?

[guywhogotgoxed]

do you mean my decision of wanting to sleep, 3am in the morning, instead of waiting for 6 confirmations, was a bad decision?

i think  you dint understand my point of view, if the money was your first priority then yes you did made a bad decision if sleeping was your first priority then you dint make a mistake

right. now go fuck off.

Those who argue that there would have not been a rally to begin with (i.e. without leveraging) are kidding themselves.  

Here's my stance on the leverage debate.

Momentum is the biggest part of any price movement.  You can see this very clearly in the charts... the big trends last for months.  If we had not had leverage, we would have had a slower rise (and perhaps even from a lower bottom), but the price would have kept rising instead of running into a brick wall.  We definitely could have gotten past $7 without Bitcoinica.

I've said it before, but with Bitcoin if you're smart enough it's relatively easy to "beat the market."

This isn't the stock market.  There's countless fewer variables to consider and as such it's infinitely easier to isolate market variables.  This also means that the variables you can isolate have a much more deterministic impact on the market.  Deconstructing the Bitcoin market compared to the stock market is like someone asking you to guess the number of jellybeans in a jar vs. the number of jellybeans in a swimming pool just by glancing at them.

The ONLY time I've gotten somewhat fucked was a few weeks ago when everything snowballed on Bitcoinica.  Why did I get fucked?  I wasn't even aware that the asterisk could be an issue.  Well, it's turned out to be a huge issue.  The downward movement today was completely expected and that's why I didn't lose anything.  But seriously, Bitcoinica's gotta figure out its reserve issues.

The Bitcoin market is a system.  All systems need homeostasis to stabilize, and that means balancing systemic input and output.  Bitcoinica really fucks with the input and output.

I think the problem is mtgox's orderbooks are very thin. at this moment, any speculator can go in bitcoinica with 1000btc, shortsell with 1:10 leverage, and cause the price to go to low 4.xx. The orderbooks just need to muscle up and be able to handle dumps of a couple thousand coins.


Remember this guy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=59969.0  ? see how fucktard speculators (and this was a true fucktard, from head to toes) can fuck many people over in seconds. Hell, even if I was waiting for the confirmations during that moment, Id still get fucked in that scenario.

One last thing, if it wasn't for the speculators how long do you think you would have to wait around for someone to buy your bitcoins?

as long time as it takes for someone who needs bitcoins to buy my ask. A day? but no, civilized behavior is not accepted in btc trading

[guywhogotgoxed]

nah Im fine now, just wanted to let some steam out.

Hope as many speculators as possible got offended. If you didnt, send me a pm and Ill try my best.

[bb113]

One last thing, if it wasn't for the speculators how long do you think you would have to wait around for someone to buy your bitcoins?

as long time as it takes for someone who needs bitcoins to buy my ask. A day? but no, civilized behavior is not accepted in btc trading

And what if no one was willing to buy them from you for exactly the same price you got them? You would sell them for a loss, or just let them sit there while people are buying and selling bitcoins for a dollar less?

[notme]

I think the problem is mtgox's orderbooks are very thin. at this moment, any speculator can go in bitcoinica with 1000btc, shortsell with 1:10 leverage, and cause the price to go to low 4.xx. The orderbooks just need to muscle up and be able to handle dumps of a couple thousand coins.

Um... who do you expect to muscle up the order books if not for speculators?

I agree that there are people fucking with prices, but you can't just lump all speculators in with a couple assholes.

Also, take a chill pill.  I lost more than 5 times what you did, and you don't hear me whining.  It you weren't aware of the risks, that's your fault.  Man up.

[guywhogotgoxed]

One last thing, if it wasn't for the speculators how long do you think you would have to wait around for someone to buy your bitcoins?

as long time as it takes for someone who needs bitcoins to buy my ask. A day? but no, civilized behavior is not accepted in btc trading

And what if no one was willing to buy them from you for exactly the same price you got them? You would sell them for a loss, or just let them sit there while people are buying and selling bitcoins for a dollar less?

in all likelihood, if the majority of all trades werent for speculative purposes (bitcoinicas bot, other peoples bots, speculators etc) then no, I dont believe $1000 in btc would take so long to get sold that the price would fluctuate more than it did today.

but then again, since BTCUSD has always been affected by speculation, who knows what it would be like if the majority of trades werent for speculative purposes? lets end the discussion there. we have no idea of how it would have been.

[SlaveInDebt]

Ah Ya...

My butt

[Crypt_Current]

thats like saying I deserve to lose money if Im not holding it tightly with both hands, 24/7

 

[DeathAndTaxes]

the first rule of eve is dont fly what you can afford to lose

It has been a long time since I played but that is the first (and often broken) rule.

[M4v3R]

nah Im fine now, just wanted to let some steam out.

Hope as many speculators as possible got offended. If you didnt, send me a pm and Ill try my best.

You didn't offend me for one. You are responsible for your own actions, if that was so important you should take time to move the coins earlier, not on 3am. Then you make a fool of yourself on the forums insulting everybody like it was everybody's fault.

Oh, and about the guy that you've linked that shorted 17k. Don't think that he only was responsible for the drop to 4.8. 17k short on Bitcoinica is WAY to small to do this. Believe me, I had more than that and market hardly moved.

[FreeMoney]

Fuck all of you dipshit motherfuckers who have the power to make my assets lose over 10% overnight. I never even had a fucking chance to sell. Problem is I need the cash right now, not the coins, and am forced to sell cheap.

I hope you get all raped in hell for eternity.

Sorry to be all logicy while you're emotional, but if most of the participants are speculators then a speculator probably bought your coins, and if he wasn't there you'd be selling to the next lower bid (unless it was a speculator busily burning (raped actually) also).

[bb113]

One last thing, if it wasn't for the speculators how long do you think you would have to wait around for someone to buy your bitcoins?

as long time as it takes for someone who needs bitcoins to buy my ask. A day? but no, civilized behavior is not accepted in btc trading

And what if no one was willing to buy them from you for exactly the same price you got them? You would sell them for a loss, or just let them sit there while people are buying and selling bitcoins for a dollar less?

in all likelihood, if the majority of all trades werent for speculative purposes (bitcoinicas bot, other peoples bots, speculators etc) then no, I dont believe $1000 in btc would take so long to get sold that the price would fluctuate more than it did today.

but then again, since BTCUSD has always been affected by speculation, who knows what it would be like if the majority of trades werent for speculative purposes? lets end the discussion there. we have no idea of how it would have been.

Well, I don't think it would take very long for $1000 in coins to get sold either. What may take a long time is finding a buyer at the exact price you want to sell them for.