MTGOX new privacy policy???

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

Once again our goal as an exchange is not to think 3 month ahead, but at least 3 years ahead of things!

Amen!

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[gnar1ta$]

Just to be clear it's loss of simplicity not loss of anonymity that worries me. Right now it's easier for me to send money to family with bitcoins than banks, and it's the exhange that's the most difficult part. I hope it gets even easier in 3 years.

[finway]

Understand.

[Mt.Gox Support]

I hope it gets even easier in 3 years.

The only thing that I can tell you at this point, is that we are working on it!

[RaggedMonk]

There is no point in fighting a system that will crush you, when you can bit the system from inside out. And who knows, once everything is done, some well established company will see the beauty of Bitcoin and may start rethinking their business model. Still, our goal is to push forward Bitcoin and make it mainstream and once a large number of transaction are made using BTCs, then... we will be able to enjoy Bitcoin's amazing features. Once again our goal as an exchange is not to think 3 month ahead, but at least 3 years ahead of things!

Mt Gox is the most positive force for Bitcoin right now.  Keep up the great work.

[cypherdoc]

So I now have to go through the same bs as opening and using a bank account. Basically defeats the whole idea of Bitcoin....

Bitcoin does not end with MtGox.  What are you doing here ?

It's a bad sign. What's the point of Bitcoin if it becomes strangled by banking rules and regulations is my point. Why not just keep and use my over regulated bank accounts? I'm not dumping my mining rigs yet, but I'm moving on from Gox.

Or we can forego the anonymity aspect of Bitcoin (for the time being), thus allowing us to move forward and become mainstream, always knowing that not only an anonymity aspect exist, but will be developed even stronger.

~Bruno~

There is no point in fighting a system that will crush you, when you can beat (And not Bit!) the system from inside out. And who knows, once everything is done, some well established company will see the beauty of Bitcoin and may start rethinking their business model. Still, our goal is to push forward Bitcoin and make it mainstream and once a large number of transaction are made using BTCs, then... we will be able to enjoy Bitcoin's amazing features. Once again our goal as an exchange is not to think 3 month ahead, but at least 3 years ahead of things!

how do you guys view the fact that Amir Taaki has stated publicly that his determined actions to comply with the UK regulatory laws have cost Intersango thousands of lost pounds/dollars and that it has been a royal waste of time?

[kjlimo]

So I now have to go through the same bs as opening and using a bank account. Basically defeats the whole idea of Bitcoin....

Bitcoin does not end with MtGox.  What are you doing here ?

It's a bad sign. What's the point of Bitcoin if it becomes strangled by banking rules and regulations is my point. Why not just keep and use my over regulated bank accounts? I'm not dumping my mining rigs yet, but I'm moving on from Gox.

Or we can forego the anonymity aspect of Bitcoin (for the time being), thus allowing us to move forward and become mainstream, always knowing that not only an anonymity aspect exist, but will be developed even stronger.

~Bruno~

There is no point in fighting a system that will crush you, when you can beat (And not Bit!) the system from inside out. And who knows, once everything is done, some well established company will see the beauty of Bitcoin and may start rethinking their business model. Still, our goal is to push forward Bitcoin and make it mainstream and once a large number of transaction are made using BTCs, then... we will be able to enjoy Bitcoin's amazing features. Once again our goal as an exchange is not to think 3 month ahead, but at least 3 years ahead of things!

how do you guys view the fact that Amir Taaki has stated publicly that his determined actions to comply with the UK regulatory laws have cost Intersango thousands of lost pounds/dollars and that it has been a royal waste of time?

the protection of regulation comes at a cost... sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it's not.

there will always be winners & losers.

[Desolator]

Then take a page from the criminals and money launder-ish it.  Buy something with bitcoins (hey, I heard Des sells computer parts ) and immediately resell for USD elsewhere.  That = bypass evil, privacy bomb exchanges.

[paulzag]

In all the rhetoric many lose sight of the pragmatic.

MtGox has had to join the 21st century corporate and regulatory environment. This means ToS and a Privacy Policy. The privacy policy is drafted by lawyers who charge obscene hourly rates and justify them by writing screw-the-customer legalese. That's how the system works.

Part of the promotion of BTC is to make it as mainstream as possible. Just like money in the bank, with all the attendant regulatory and privacy hurdles.

That legal and regulatory hurdle is the price of convenience and the illusion of temporary security that regulation provides. If you want the legal system to protect you from another mybitcoin fiasco, you let them regulate that market.

Nobody is holding a gun to your head to make you trade on MtGox. As a matter of fact in the long run once BTC is widely decentralized, there will be a limited need for a centralized exchange. But at this point in time, it's a good idea to have a transparent exchange for anyone who wants it.

If you want anonymity there are places you can trade cash for BTC. More opportunities for this will emerge as a result of MtGox being regulated.

It's similar to cash. Great to buy a latte and a muffin. Bad to try to buy a house, car or large asset. BTC will undermine the banks monopoly on international funds transfers though and that is a good thing.

[Bro]

those terms are pretty bad, they plan to give away your personal information to any company that work for them

I'm thinking of boycotting Mtgox..

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

those terms are pretty bad, they plan to give away your personal information to any company that work for them

I'm thinking of boycotting Mtgox..

No, your wrong. Please read and understand the thread before making statements

[Bro]

No, your wrong. Please read and understand the thread before making statements

 We may make available the Personal Information that you provide to us to our affiliates, agents, representatives, trusted service providers and contractors for these limited purposes. We may also share Members’ Personal Information with financial institutions, insurance companies or other companies in the case of a merger, divestiture, or other corporate re-organisation. We may also share Members' Personal Information with law enforcement or regulatory agencies, as may be required by law. Any third party which receives or has access to Personal Information shall be required by us to protect such Personal Information and to use it only to carry out the services they are performing for you or for Mt. Gox, unless otherwise required or permitted by law. We will ensure that any such third party is aware of our obligations under this Privacy Policy and we will enter into contracts with such third parties by which they are bound by terms no less protective of any Personal Information disclosed to them than the obligations we undertake to you under this Privacy Policy or which are imposed on us under applicable data protection laws.

Transfer of Personal Information Outside of Japan

Mt Gox will transfer Members' Personal Information to Mt. Gox K.K. as well as the third party service providers entrusted by Mt. Gox with the hosting of the Platform and other technical operations relating to the operation of the Platform. These parties may be located anywhere in the world. By accepting this Privacy Policy, you consent to such transfer of your Personal Information out of Japan.


it sounds pretty clear to me

[Mt.Gox Support]

No, your wrong. Please read and understand the thread before making statements

 We may make available the Personal Information that you provide to us to our affiliates, agents, representatives, trusted service providers and contractors for these limited purposes. We may also share Members’ Personal Information with financial institutions, insurance companies or other companies in the case of a merger, divestiture, or other corporate re-organisation. We may also share Members' Personal Information with law enforcement or regulatory agencies, as may be required by law. Any third party which receives or has access to Personal Information shall be required by us to protect such Personal Information and to use it only to carry out the services they are performing for you or for Mt. Gox, unless otherwise required or permitted by law. We will ensure that any such third party is aware of our obligations under this Privacy Policy and we will enter into contracts with such third parties by which they are bound by terms no less protective of any Personal Information disclosed to them than the obligations we undertake to you under this Privacy Policy or which are imposed on us under applicable data protection laws.

Transfer of Personal Information Outside of Japan

Mt Gox will transfer Members' Personal Information to Mt. Gox K.K. as well as the third party service providers entrusted by Mt. Gox with the hosting of the Platform and other technical operations relating to the operation of the Platform. These parties may be located anywhere in the world. By accepting this Privacy Policy, you consent to such transfer of your Personal Information out of Japan.


it sounds pretty clear to me

This need to be clarified as well, and I am sure that you will all understand what is quoted above once I give you this simple example : Wire Transfer.

Indeed when you decide to withdraw money from your Mt.Gox account to your personal bank account we will have them no choice to make available your personal information to our bank that will processed with the wire transfer. While these information are transferred to our bank via SSL we still need to forward to our Bank or Trusted Service providers / Contractors your Name (First and Last), your Addresss, your Account Number, the Amount to wire and your Bank Account information (Bank Name, Address...).

As you can see there is no "EVIL" here just regular standard practices that you are already bound in your everyday life.

Cheers

[ssaCEO]

One question - is it safe to assume that MtGox now complies with FinCEN rules and shares US customers' balances with the IRS for FBAR filing? And more to the point, so that US customers don't file too little (or too much) on their FBAR, can you clarify if the balance you share w/ the IRS is equal to the total balance in MtGox wallets, including Bitcoins at the current rate? Or would it only be the amount held in USD/EUR/etc?

For some people this could be the difference between being under or over the $10k mark and needing to file an FBAR at all, so it's important to know what the rules are. I've read everything I can find on the IRS site about it, and I still don't know whether Bitcoins held in an overseas wallet are or aren't reportable as a foreign financial account.

[realnowhereman]

For example, many customers recently have been submitting their personal information to us by email. (Note: We strongly discourage this practice as it is the least secure form of transmission.) Emails will generally be sent from a particular public mail server, be routed throughout the internet, and eventually arrive at Mt.Gox. This clause says that we are only able to guarantee the security of that email when it is on the Mt.Gox mail server, not when you are drafting it on your gmail account, or whilst it routes through parts of the internet we have no control over.

A great many companies don't recognise this property of email (I have had a few passwords over email); it's excellent that you do.

However, it would be even more excellent if you helped mitigate that drawback by providing a PGP key on the web site.  Those who know how could make use of it; those who don't are no worse off.

[rjk]

For example, many customers recently have been submitting their personal information to us by email. (Note: We strongly discourage this practice as it is the least secure form of transmission.) Emails will generally be sent from a particular public mail server, be routed throughout the internet, and eventually arrive at Mt.Gox. This clause says that we are only able to guarantee the security of that email when it is on the Mt.Gox mail server, not when you are drafting it on your gmail account, or whilst it routes through parts of the internet we have no control over.

A great many companies don't recognise this property of email (I have had a few passwords over email); it's excellent that you do.

However, it would be even more excellent if you helped mitigate that drawback by providing a PGP key on the web site.  Those who know how could make use of it; those who don't are no worse off.

+1

[Matthew N. Wright]

Oh my God this thread is such fail.

I'm too lazy to rewrite, so here's a skype paste about it instead.

[5:25:53 AM] Matthew N. Wright: People are dumb
[5:26:06 AM] Matthew N. Wright: Why are they even talking about this kind of thing that EVERYONE IN BANKING REQUIRES ANYWHERE?
[5:26:24 AM] Matthew N. Wright: "But bitcoin isn't a bank! Now excuse me while I wire this money through my bank to bi- OHHHHH"
[5:27:09 AM] Matthew N. Wright: You want your exchange to work closely with banks to provide all the same features
[5:27:21 AM] Matthew N. Wright: You want your exchanges to be legally responsible for your money
[5:27:34 AM] Matthew N. Wright: You want your exchanges to have insurances, securities and legal filings
[5:27:48 AM] Matthew N. Wright: You want your exchanges to provide prompt service and have anti-fraud measures in place
[5:27:52 AM] Matthew N. Wright: But you don't want them to act like a bank!
[5:28:02 AM] Matthew N. Wright: You don't want them to follow the rules of banks!
[5:28:11 AM] Matthew N. Wright: Have cake, eat too.