【Truth or FUD???】DarkCoin – The Next Big Thing, or Just Another Pump and Dump?

[hystericG]

so much FUD on this thread

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[gmaxwell]

Btw, this is my alleged pumping link that Greg took exception to: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.msg7159773#msg7159773

Not including the two (IIRC) other OT posts of yours that I outright deleted.

Being the objective staff/moderator that you are of course. Well done mate. Keep it up. You're showing everyone what centralised authority is capable of. Moreover, I have not posted anything on this issue on IIRC.

It was offtopic, posting about DarkCoin and IRS black helecoptors over and over again in an unrelated thread… exactly the sort of stuff that gets deleted every day. Post in the correct threads and your posts won't be deleted.

WRT having contact info for the other coins, the bcn&forks have the nice property that I don't have to constantly change the addresses to avoid reuse as I do in Bitcoin. I didn't have any Bitcoin address listed at all except I have to have one to get the moderator payments from the forum, and so I'm stuck replacing it every time it receives a payment. I posted some design criticisms in the bytecoin thread and I got asked to post a donation address, since it doesn't have the reuse problem. I'd list anything else I tried that didn't have the address reuse problem, at the moment thats limted to the bcn&forks.  Altcoins are a mess but I'm happy to take tips of whatever people want to send. Whoptie do, my profile is open and non-secret.

Wow, so I think you need to go back and look at how Darkcoin started. It was my hobby, I wrote X11 in a weekend and launched it. I was thinking I might be able to write the anon tech into the wallet using a variation of Coinjoin, which I started afterward. Darkcoins success was much like Dogecoin, an accident. Please read this:  https://darkcointalk.org/threads/the-birth-of-darkcoin.162/
Had I know what was going to happen, I would have obviously taken much more care with the launch and tested everything thoroughly. It's too bad we can't all get past that, it irritates me seeing this constantly everywhere.
If you want to checkout the source for Darksend and see how it works I'm open to that. I think you'd be the best person to look it over before it's opened anyway.

That things happened which you never expected are all the more reason to not take the concerns or criticism personally.  That people are finding cause to speak out aggressively is because of the promotion other people are doing, ... but you don't control them so you shouldn't worry about it too much.

I'll be glad to look at it when its actually released. I don't have the time or interest to review closed systems.

[knightcoin]

I have seen that chart pattern before .. it's time to sell

Buy the Rumor, Sell the News

[Lasmiranda]

Just the next pump and dump like auroracoin was before.

[jabo38]

I am still following this thread.  Very interesting. 

+1 for Evan offering up the code, and +1 for Gmaxwell saying he will look it over when it is open source. 

Really, this is what the community needs.  An open source code that devs are willing to share and that others have proofed. 

It seems like more and more of the top 10 coins are not releasing their code to protect their investment.  I get it.  Money is important.  At that point though, the concept of crypto has far strayed from Satoshi's bitcoin of radical financial revolution and instead turned into a money making venture. 

The problem for me is that now that I know it is about the money, it is hard for me to give my money to somebody who is so concerned about getting rich. 

To me, darkcoin's price is really high.  A high price to some means a good coin.   To me, a good coin means a high price.  With this coin, how can I really know if it is good until it is reviewed?

I believe that the biggest scam of all altcoins was litecoin.  It doesn't really offer much value over bitcoin.  At least with something like Darkcoin, there is some kind of additional service.  But still... is this anything that Bitcoin won't be able to do with Coinjoin?  If Bitcoin can, than I say just stick with it.  If it can't, then Darkcoin deserves to be worth a lot.

[AlexGR]

What I can't forgive though is the Dark cartel charging 80 cents to a dollar for the coin for months when it had no anon function. Unless you were lucky to have a mining rig to get all those coins in its first 24-48 hours, Dark has always had a high barrier to entry for most people to accumulate a serious amount of coins. Not sure who to blame, if anyone for any of this, but that is really my main issue, it seems greed has dominated the coin since day 1 by the whales.

Are you sure we are talking about Darkcoin?

For half a month the price was like 0.2 / 0.25 BTC for 10.000 DRKs. It hit the exchanges for 0.1 BTC / 10.000 DRKs (0.00001)... it was a month after launch, when the first pre-alpha of Darksend was trialed at testnet that price rose to 0.002.



Check here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471321.0

And here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=468804.0 (this is full of epic quotes... nah, 0.35$... too expensive, I'm not buying... it's at the top... etc etc).

It seems like more and more of the top 10 coins are not releasing their code to protect their investment.  I get it.  Money is important.  At that point though, the concept of crypto has far strayed from Satoshi's bitcoin of radical financial revolution and instead turned into a money making venture.

Not really. DarkSend will be open when it's finalized in a few weeks. This has been decided months ago by the community & dev as closed source is DOA for someone who wants to be anonymous. There were many in the community that believe that scamcoins shouldn't be allowed to clone it, but the advantages of opensourcing it were weighted in its favor. Closed source=unacceptable.

The paranoia is a significant factor and you don't wan't people looking over their shoulders if the software they're using is somehow rooted. It's also an exploitable FUD-vector that can be easily avoided. It's just that price caught up with the development plan (=not yet final) and is now acting as the spotlight.

Besides, since the implementation in Darkcoin is based on both DarkSend+economy+game theory, it's not easily duplicated by other coins. Given that in the current design the nodes know who is transacting with the other, a way had to be devised to solve the bad actor problem. The 12.000 USD per node is the dis-incentive to buy a lot of nodes. When an altcoin is launched a month from now, implementing the opensourced DarkSend, it does not have the same dis-incentives for the bad actor as he can buy the entire monetary base (and the nodes) for peanuts. Thus, from game theory perspective, the implementation won't really work as effectively as with a coin with good distribution + established value. For example DOGEcoin or Litecoin could implement it better than a new coin with zero price.

As for the vision of Satoshi, things are complicated because even going against the transparent public ledger is a deviation on our part... His vision, in my perspective, is less of a vision and more of ...time traveling. Although it doesn't really involve physically going back and forth in the timeline. Under certain circumstances some people are able to "tune" their consciousness in the future modus operandi of humanity and open a portal between the future and the present. I believe Bitcoin is precisely that - a portal to the future, anchored in the now. And some things that don't make sense (ie why would he empower the people with a decentralized financial system but not give them protection from government oppression) actually do make sense from his future-aligned-consciousness perspective.

I think the reason why bitcoin is so transparent is elusive to pretty much everyone in the bitcoin world but I'll give it a go - with a warning attached that what you will read may be near impossible to believe.

Just like the ape evolved to the human by integrating a higher intellect, human will evolve into a new and better species (we are not the end of evolution - we are still evolving). Some say humans will evolve to a techno-organic hybrid (Kurzweil) like Borg but the reality is that humans will integrate their "soul" to become god-humans, making cyborg humans obsolete.

This is "destined" to happen near the end of this century. I say destined because the future is like a gravity center that "pulls" the past to itself (rather than the past building upon itself step-by-step to reach the future - which is how we view it in linear time). At the end (timeline-wise) of that gravity center is the "soul Internet". It is when humans will discover that they are all connected on a soul level where every human soul is a node and that their souls make up an internet, which is what we'd call God.

In order for humans to scientifically discover that internet, there must be some things, like concepts, that they can build upon. The order is something like that: Telegraph => Telephone => Modems => Technological Internet (what we have now) => Mental Internet (where we discover that our minds are interconnected) => Soul Internet (where we discover that our souls are interconnected).

For example, you have the telegraph and you say I discovered the phone, which is like the telegraph, but instead of signals it transmits voice. Then you have the modem which is like the phone but instead of voice, transmits data - and you've reached the internet. And then you'll say "humans are connected in their minds, just like the internet nodes". And when this is "known science" it will be easy to make the next step in understanding that humans are connected at a deeper level - comprising the ultimate network (which is the All-that-is-One). But it always requires prior concepts to build upon.

Every direction of society is building new concepts, in incremental steps, that are going towards this final realization. This includes entertainment, technology, economy, sciences, etc. In our case (Bitcoin) the decentralized/P2P model is the precise model for making people understand how the mental and soul network operate with everyone being a node. Decentralization and networks built through an equality of nodes that make up the "larger entity" is a key element. On the other hand, hierarchy/authority is against the protocol of equality which is necessary for people to understand what's coming next.

Transparency is another key element because there are no "secrets" in the "higher" networks that exist beyond the technological internet. So Bitcoin has been created as a conceptual platform / a reference for discovering things that operate based on the same "protocols" (p2p - power to the people / transparency).

Going against these protocols (in our case transparency) that build up our higher realizations as a species will be tricky. It's like trying to sail against the wind - and that ensures a hell of a bumpy raid for anyone who'll try to give it a shot in anonymity given that it is a fundamental rule of this reality that there is nothing hidden under the sun.

To add a few further info to the above, this reality is actually a constructed reality / a virtual reality. Scientists are beginning to realize this as they analyze its "fabric". The most complete theoretical models / unification theories for the universe, are based on the virtual reality hologram - yet they are still on the "fringes" of acceptability despite being superior in the way they predict and explain phenomena.

Consistent with a programmed reality, the things of value that the "players" of this reality are programmed to really value are gold and silver - in specific ratios. These are hardcoded consts in the reality hologram. Select humans/agents are now repeating the pattern of their creator-gods by programming this reality with a new type of money - essentially causing a systemic "rebellion" with far reaching ripples.

Fiat money was not so much a rebellion as a way for the elite to hoard precious metals while giving people "paper money" to toy around with. You can't have precious metal hoarding if people are transacting with it daily. So you make all the fiat money (scam money) that you want, and you then use it to take real money (=hardcoded money, like gold) out of circulation and hoard it.

Now we have the "rebellion" where both gold + fiat are in doubt versus Satoshi's construct. The forces that are behind Satoshi on one hand and the Elite on the other hand are ancient / primordial. Each one tries to leverage the reality hologram towards specific directions although the Elite's side (which are also aligned with the creator-gods of this reality) have stronger physical leverage. Satoshi's side is more in line with a consciousness-revolution where this reality construct is seen for what it is and everything that is limiting to the "players" is teared down. Transparency is a key element of his "strategy". Layers of deception and obfuscation is the strategy of the "opponents"/Elite. They are masters in this game and that's why our own efforts to create, say, NSA-proof solutions will be "quite difficult".

[jabo38]

Besides, since the implementation in Darkcoin is based on both DarkSend+economy+game theory, it's not easily duplicated by other coins. Given that in the current design the nodes know who is transacting with the other, a way had to be devised to solve the bad actor problem. The 12.000 USD per node is the dis-incentive to buy a lot of nodes. When an altcoin is launched a month from now, implementing the opensourced DarkSend, it does not have the same dis-incentives for the bad actor as he can buy the entire monetary base (and the nodes) for peanuts. Thus, from game theory perspective, the implementation won't really work as effectively as with a coin with good distribution + established value. For example DOGEcoin or Litecoin could implement it better than a new coin with zero price.

Thanks for the reply.  I appreciate your taking time to not just scream but explain things in a logical manner.  You also seem in the know about DRK, so I have one more question about these nodes.

I get it that if you are sending money through darksend that I can't see it the same way I can track you on the bitcoin blockchain.  So it keeps me from looking at you, but I am not really worried about person to person tracking.  And 12,000 USD keeps most people out of the node game for sure.

12,000 USD for the NSA, it isn't even dust. 

If the NSA was watching DRK and bought a dozen nodes, wouldn't they be able to see where the money in those nodes is coming and going from?  I mean, they might have to do some extra computer leg work, and cracking, but wouldn't they be able to monitor just where the money coming into their node is coming from and where it is going?  It is their node after all and they are privy to the data coming in and out. 

[AlexGR]

Besides, since the implementation in Darkcoin is based on both DarkSend+economy+game theory, it's not easily duplicated by other coins. Given that in the current design the nodes know who is transacting with the other, a way had to be devised to solve the bad actor problem. The 12.000 USD per node is the dis-incentive to buy a lot of nodes. When an altcoin is launched a month from now, implementing the opensourced DarkSend, it does not have the same dis-incentives for the bad actor as he can buy the entire monetary base (and the nodes) for peanuts. Thus, from game theory perspective, the implementation won't really work as effectively as with a coin with good distribution + established value. For example DOGEcoin or Litecoin could implement it better than a new coin with zero price.

Thanks for the reply.  I appreciate your taking time to not just scream but explain things in a logical manner.  You also seem in the know about DRK, so I have one more question about these nodes.

I get it that if you are sending money through darksend that I can't see it the same way I can track you on the bitcoin blockchain.  So it keeps me from looking at you, but I am not really worried about person to person tracking.  And 12,000 USD keeps most people out of the node game for sure.

12,000 USD for the NSA, it isn't even dust.  

If the NSA was watching DRK and bought a dozen nodes, wouldn't they be able to see where the money in those nodes is coming and going from?  I mean, they might have to do some extra computer leg work, and cracking, but wouldn't they be able to monitor just where the money coming into their node is coming from and where it is going?  It is their node after all and they are privy to the data coming in and out.  

Thing is, the price isn't static. The more you buy, the more the price rises. So it would be impossible to control, say, half of the darkcoins in circulation or 3/4ths, without the marketcap exploding to something like a billion usd. They'd still have the money for that though, no question.

Regarding traceability... assuming the NSA controls something like 60% of the nodes (that's a lot), if you darksend the money multiple times, and assuming a random selection of node for each round of laundering, the possibility of getting tracked is:

One Darksend: 60%
Two Darksends: 60% x 60% = 36%
Three... = 21.6%
Four = 12.96%
Five = 7.77%
Six = 4.66%
Seven = 2.79%
Eight = 1.67%
Nine = 1%
Ten = 0.6%
Eleven = 0.36%
Twelve = 0.21%
Thirteen = 0.13%

But the NSA in particular has extra ways to discover what you do (controls networks, devices, ip obfuscation nodes, has advanced AI pattern recognition software etc), so that's not even a really accurate reflection. And I think there's also a problem with linking change addresses during DarkSends that might be recombined in some joint future spending. This would probably require something like a scheduled laundering service, like the "windows defrag" for the disk, but that would perform something similar for change addresses. I'm not sure of what the next version of DarkSend will do regarding change denominations.

To make the long story short: NSA-proofing is not easy. When Evan started working on it he wasn't really trying to create an NSA-proof system, just a system that would provide good privacy through obfuscation and encryption that could only be cracked by a very serious adversary like the NSA (not even most governments).

It was after Anonymint's constructive criticism back in March and the Bytecoin & clones appearance when the pressure was built up to deliver something even better and that's where we are today, trying to make a transparent blockchain to provide an almost perfect degree of anonymity - which is of course a problem because you are going against the fundamental design of the system. So we'll see what we end up with after RC4 (anonymity enhancements)...

[jabo38]

good info.  thanks!

[brokjen420]

WTF THIS THREAD SUCKS!!

NOBODY GAVE CONCRETE evidence SHOWING WEATHER ITS INSTAMINE OR NOT??

NOBODY said Yea this looks good lets go all in folks.

everyone said something different

WTF you trolls



A man buys 2 drk coin and now im thinking I either make a good purchase or i just screwed myself.

Glad i read this thread bunch a rubber neckers nobody goes one way or the other just complete confusion

YOU ALL SUCK

[Zer0Sum]

I am still following this thread.  Very interesting. 

+1 for Evan offering up the code, and +1 for Gmaxwell saying he will look it over when it is open source. 

Really, this is what the community needs.  An open source code that devs are willing to share and that others have proofed. 

It seems like more and more of the top 10 coins are not releasing their code to protect their investment.  I get it.  Money is important.  At that point though, the concept of crypto has far strayed from Satoshi's bitcoin of radical financial revolution and instead turned into a money making venture. 

The problem for me is that now that I know it is about the money, it is hard for me to give my money to somebody who is so concerned about getting rich. 

To me, darkcoin's price is really high.  A high price to some means a good coin.   To me, a good coin means a high price.  With this coin, how can I really know if it is good until it is reviewed?

I believe that the biggest scam of all altcoins was litecoin.  It doesn't really offer much value over bitcoin.  At least with something like Darkcoin, there is some kind of additional service.  But still... is this anything that Bitcoin won't be able to do with Coinjoin?  If Bitcoin can, than I say just stick with it.  If it can't, then Darkcoin deserves to be worth a lot.

gmaxwell in no way endorsed DRK...
and has stated prev that conjoin plus special nodes is very sub-optimal

gmaxwell has been endorsing the CN group of anon coins as dramatically more optimal...
But those groups seem underfunded... and are moving slowly.

So DRK is overpriced... XMR is underpriced.

[Ozziecoin]

I am still following this thread.  Very interesting. 

+1 for Evan offering up the code, and +1 for Gmaxwell saying he will look it over when it is open source. 

Really, this is what the community needs.  An open source code that devs are willing to share and that others have proofed. 

It seems like more and more of the top 10 coins are not releasing their code to protect their investment.  I get it.  Money is important.  At that point though, the concept of crypto has far strayed from Satoshi's bitcoin of radical financial revolution and instead turned into a money making venture. 

The problem for me is that now that I know it is about the money, it is hard for me to give my money to somebody who is so concerned about getting rich. 

To me, darkcoin's price is really high.  A high price to some means a good coin.   To me, a good coin means a high price.  With this coin, how can I really know if it is good until it is reviewed?

I believe that the biggest scam of all altcoins was litecoin.  It doesn't really offer much value over bitcoin.  At least with something like Darkcoin, there is some kind of additional service.  But still... is this anything that Bitcoin won't be able to do with Coinjoin?  If Bitcoin can, than I say just stick with it.  If it can't, then Darkcoin deserves to be worth a lot.

This is true, which is why I hedge. Will it be possible to implement trust less coinjoin without servers? I do not care if it is done with or without servers. Which is why I believe calling darkcoin worthless is baseless. I do suspect implementing trust less coinjoin with distributed servers is going to be far easier to accomplish than without servers as dark wallet is aiming to do.

[Ozziecoin]

Let us assume gmaxwell is right and that coinjoin on servers are a "chokepoint" because it is not trustless. This does not automatically mean the network of distributed masternodes in Darkcoin is worthless and vapourware.

1. You can run DarkSend a number of times assuming a percentage of masternodes are bad actors and still achieve good privacy.

2. However, let's assume there are zero good masternodes in the network; and the entire masternode system is exclusively owned by bad people; as long as it is different bad people, they will still not be able to unscramble the coinjoin unless they cooperated with each other.  

With Darkcoin as it currently stands would still provide superior functional privacy than relying on one centralised coinmixing server. You can run DarkSend multiple times assuming x% of the masternode network is bad and that x% are owned by different people and get the privacy you want. This appears to me to be very close to full anonymity.

[Git_2058]

Pretty much hate to know the fact of "premine" (not actual meaning of premine, but very close to). Dev just makes use of some tricks to fool people around, and this fact should not be hidden.

[luke997]

Pretty much hate to know the fact of "premine" (not actual meaning of premine, but very close to). Dev just makes use of some tricks to fool people around, and this fact should not be hidden.

(...)
Yeah, sure. If you believe that every pre-announced coin in the altcoin section is instamined by "dev & friends", you need to step back and do a reality check.

The reality is, that ever since the altcoin became profitable, there are hundreds and hundreds of people monitoring the section and mining EVERY SINGLE COIN.
No exception. Every announced coin is mined by hundreds and hundreds of people.

And you know what happens next? The moment coin hits first serious exchange, most early miners dump the coins. That's if they haven't sold through forum already.
Why? Because 99.9% of the coins does not EVER rise more than that. Guaranteed.

The only way for "dev & friends" to get easy coin is:
1) pre-mine
2) ninja launch

None of this happened, and you have exactly.... 0 proof that "dev & friends" holds millions of coins.

Do you still believe "dev & friends" hold millions of coins?

If this wasn't enough, do you really think that mystery buyer would spent 6.2mln USD in BTC between 26/05 - 02/06 buying coins dumped by panic sellers?
Having that much money, you're not stupid, especially buying at such dips.

Do you really think someone smart enough to have 6.2mln USD would have dropped that much money into DRK, if he had even a slight suspicion of it being a scam?
If yes, I'm afraid that even reality check might not help, you've lost it.

[brokjen420]

Pretty much hate to know the fact of "premine" (not actual meaning of premine, but very close to). Dev just makes use of some tricks to fool people around, and this fact should not be hidden.

(...)
Yeah, sure. If you believe that every pre-announced coin in the altcoin section is instamined by "dev & friends", you need to step back and do a reality check.

The reality is, that ever since the altcoin became profitable, there are hundreds and hundreds of people monitoring the section and mining EVERY SINGLE COIN.
No exception. Every announced coin is mined by hundreds and hundreds of people.

And you know what happens next? The moment coin hits first serious exchange, most early miners dump the coins. That's if they haven't sold through forum already.
Why? Because 99.9% of the coins does not EVER rise more than that. Guaranteed.

The only way for "dev & friends" to get easy coin is:
1) pre-mine
2) ninja launch

None of this happened, and you have exactly.... 0 proof that "dev & friends" holds millions of coins.

Do you still believe "dev & friends" hold millions of coins?

If this wasn't enough, do you really think that mystery buyer would spent 6.2mln USD in BTC between 26/05 - 02/06 buying coins dumped by panic sellers?
Having that much money, you're not stupid, especially buying at such dips.

Do you really think someone smart enough to have 6.2mln USD would have dropped that much money into DRK, if he had even a slight suspicion of it being a scam?
If yes, I'm afraid that even reality check might not help, you've lost it.

Holy Shit lUke Skywalker you made my day hopefully there isnt something hidden we all find out about till then i havent seen evidence one way or another dark coin is in the dark its either make or break and i am sure if there is a huge wallet out there somewhere that person isnt gonna sell till it passes btc if it does.

[Steam20]

I think truth. Just take a look at it's price moving upward in the last weeks. People think this one is a long term winner. Go for it. To da moon............

[Git_2058]

One fact I read from the very fist posts of the DRK thread is someone was selling 40000 DRK for just 1 BTC. Quite sure he is not the only one holding such amount of coins at that time. DRK can be easily mined at the beginning. The rising of BTC price is partially due to reward halving. So once Dev "intentionally" reduced the reward, no wonder DRK can get high. Pretty normal. X11 & DarkSend are just boost of the rising, nothing much significant than this. 

[elviselvis101]

Altcoins don't have the luxury of bitcoin. Not even litecoin has it (next year it'll produce another 10mn coins over the existing 29mn - requiring >100mn USD to buy these, so its price has only one way to go... DOWN)... In effect steady minting of coins leads to dead coins due to inflation.
People can't afford to have a coin that goes like 1mn coin this year, 2mn next year, 3mn the year after etc etc. It's guaranteed suicide in terms of investment. Especially in the first months, inflation can be like 2-3% per day, requiring hundreds of BTCs to keep prices steady.

Uh, yea when the coin has no real value to folks and is just a speculative bubble or a speculative hedge... thats what happens. Not my cup of tea at least. As I've said, I normally leave the altcoin stuff alone— except for the rare novel idea, or someone pulling me in for an opinion in one way or another.

gmaxwell's other "contact info"

Other contact info:   
BCN: 23Q8iWbZUtaRdvmpqzoHJy4NwFsRrEqywhjwfbiUqTtqBAHxCNzdctbHZjf1AZKtTkAjgKmhYgkqBU9 T4BEfAgBqKsdS9vi
MRO: 43pCtCRUn6nRdvmpqzoHJy4NwFsRrEqywhjwfbiUqTtqBAHxCNzdctbHZjf1AZKtTkAjgKmhYgkqBU9 T4BEfAgBqKwK21M7
FTM: 6n34ruJrxPU65QLYC3tcAaK8rPGYZrZpD38rJZAwsgjjHGMwSbH8B8MKDwmaG9sPAXT8fwhmRs3PXBq S4y9Ab4UuSKtADUD

And you judge the altcoin space as "incredibly sleazy"?

Keep the noise down drk shill. I want drk back up to peak .... you guys defending the scam are bumping these threads and i'll never get to sell at the price i want for my nice bunch of drk scam coins.

The drk shills are all over other coins claiming scam, picking holes. Stick to your own thread and perhaps the price will go up again. There have been around 20 threads highlighting the pow distribution was a turkey shoot for drk devs and pals. They are mostly bumped by dark shills justifying or denying it happened.

Remain quiet and perhaps people will tire of this scam and find other new scams that can actually be stopped before they grow out of hand.

DRK dev is pretty good at what he does, if he had the entire 2m for himself it would not be so bad as you bunch of greedy slags that got a a bunch for next to nothing by mining when windows miners could not or you scooped up some early sells. I totally changed my mind about evans when he offered in public to do the airdrop. He would have gone for it since he is way smarter than the rest of the drk community. He knows this would have smoothed over the start and allowed the coins to gain a much wider support base.

The start was TERRIBLE so just shut up accept it and these threads will probably die out as more and more scams seem to pop up daily. The focus will eventually shift away from dark if this crap does not rage on forever.

There is no debate, the coin should have been restarted seeing there was no windows wallet and the diff stuck on super instamine settings for hours. However the tempation was too great to keep the coins. We get it. Let's just not let future devs think they can do this kind of stuff.

Ahee, thanks for this info, I remember being complete newbie with only windows on hand, very disappointed about the linux only. I missed a linux-only test giveaway of 1000 drk coins, would have been nice to have them now.

[drkleaks]

DRK is just another pump and dump that only benefits the pre-miner!

I just find some good informations about the DRK pre-mine:
http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/26t2ur/darkcoin_premine_proofs/