【Truth or FUD???】DarkCoin – The Next Big Thing, or Just Another Pump and Dump?

[illodin]

I don't believe the launch was perfect, far from it. But it happened, and I've stopped crying about it. And I don't think it really even matters.

Um, of course it does.

If you're so sure about it, please evaluate pros and cons of these both approaches and how they affect how successful a coin will be:

Fast distribution + low inflation
vs
Slow distribution + high inflation

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[count_cyrpto]

I don't believe the launch was perfect, far from it. But it happened, and I've stopped crying about it. And I don't think it really even matters.

Um, of course it does.

If you're so sure about it, please evaluate pros and cons of these both approaches and how they affect how successful a coin will be:

Fast distribution + low inflation
vs
Slow distribution + high inflation

Whether or not the coin will be successful is irrelevant.

Instaming 1,750,000 darkcoin in 15 hours, then changing the block reward from 500 to 5, matters to any sane person.

[illodin]

Whether or not the coin will be successful or not is irrelevant.

Isn't that the most important thing?

changing the block reward from 500 to 5

It wasn't changed to 5, a HUGE amount of miners mining it made it that way. Block reward would be higher if there wasn't such a high hashpower mining.

[jabo38]

Thanks gmaxwell.

Let darkcoin live on with Aurara, Maza, Max and friends. I've only been on bitcointalk for a few months but I've seen a regular trend.

I'll admit that Darkcoin sounds neat. If it's still strong in a couple months, I'll look at it then.  But now it's an unknown code, worth a lot of money, borrowed it's tech, and devs and friends probably own way more than half. I imagine said stake holders will relentlessly prop this coin. I would too if I had $500,000 worth of it.

[illodin]

Thanks gmaxwell.

Let darkcoin live on with Aurara, Maza, Max and friends. I've only been on bitcointalk for a few months but I've seen a regular trend.

I'll admit that Darkcoin sounds neat. If it's still strong in a couple months, I'll look at it then.  But now it's an unknown code, worth a lot of money, borrowed it's tech, and devs and friends probably own way more than half. I imagine said stake holders will relentlessly prop this coin. I would too if I had $500,000 worth of it.

You seem to be a very sane and smart person, being careful is always good. However,

Unknown code - yes, will be open after release candidate phase.
Borrowed its tech - no.
Devs and friends own more than half - no.

But don't take my word for it, do your own research or wait couple of months, it most likely won't be too late even then. But I'd keep a close eye just in case the breakthrough happens sooner.

[IloveAnonCoin]

Thanks gmaxwell.

Let darkcoin live on with Aurara, Maza, Max and friends. I've only been on bitcointalk for a few months but I've seen a regular trend.

I'll admit that Darkcoin sounds neat. If it's still strong in a couple months, I'll look at it then.  But now it's an unknown code, worth a lot of money, borrowed it's tech, and devs and friends probably own way more than half. I imagine said stake holders will relentlessly prop this coin. I would too if I had $500,000 worth of it.

You seem to be a very sane and smart person, being careful is always good. However,

Unknown code - yes, will be open after release candidate phase.
Borrowed its tech - no.
Devs and friends own more than half - You don't know.

But don't take my word for it, do your own research or wait couple of months, it most likely won't be too late even then. But I'd keep a close eye just in case the breakthrough happens sooner.

[manfred]

The audacity these rats have coming out from the dark hole is unbelievable. Taking open sourced linux, and open sourced bitcoin make a closed source vapour ware, get half the coins for nothing and then sell the rest to fools paying vastly inflated prices.
 
This money grab makes the banker gangsters look like real amateurs.  

[luke997]

This thread is amusing. And ridiculous.
Scam claims are FUD, as soon as you use even a little bit of logic.

Several people have conspiracy theories about the instamine by "dev & friends".

Yeah, sure. If you believe that every pre-announced coin in the altcoin section is instamined by "dev & friends", you need to step back and do a reality check.

The reality is, that ever since the altcoin became profitable, there are hundreds and hundreds of people monitoring the section and mining EVERY SINGLE COIN.
No exception. Every announced coin is mined by hundreds and hundreds of people.

And you know what happens next? The moment coin hits first serious exchange, most early miners dump the coins. That's if they haven't sold through forum already.
Why? Because 99.9% of the coins does not EVER rise more than that. Guaranteed.

The only way for "dev & friends" to get easy coin is:
1) pre-mine
2) ninja launch

None of this happened, and you have exactly.... 0 proof that "dev & friends" holds millions of coins.

Do you still believe "dev & friends" hold millions of coins?

If this wasn't enough, do you really think that mystery buyer would spent 6.2mln USD in BTC between 26/05 - 02/06 buying coins dumped by panic sellers?
Having that much money, you're not stupid, especially buying at such dips.

Do you really think someone smart enough to have 6.2mln USD would have dropped that much money into DRK, if he had even a slight suspicion of it being a scam?
If yes, I'm afraid that even reality check might not help, you've lost it.

[illodin]

The audacity these rats have coming out from the dark hole is unbelievable. Taking open sourced linux, and open sourced bitcoin make a closed source vapour ware, get half the coins for nothing and then sell the rest to fools paying at vastly inflated prices makes me more convinced than ever that the world is due for a major correction.
It totally goes against the free software movement and the a honest pay for a honest days work.

This money grab makes the banker gangsters look like real amateurs.  

You have already been told many times that the source will be opened soon enough. The options were either

a) not make the release candidate DarkSend feature publicly available at all until it's ready, or
b) make it available so people can help development by running it and give feedback.

It should be obvious why option a) is better. Making release candidate level DarkSend open source is not an option, as has already been stated previously in this thread.

And wrt inflated prices, speculators do what speculators do, they speculate. Darkcoin dev (or the "team") can't help or enforce prices. He has already mentioned he is not interested in the price discussion or the price itself at this point at all.

[IloveAnonCoin]

This thread is amusing. And ridiculous.
Scam claims are FUD, as soon as you use even a little bit of logic.

Several people have conspiracy theories about the instamine by "dev & friends".

Yeah, sure. If you believe that every pre-announced coin in the altcoin section is instamined by "dev & friends", you need to step back and do a reality check.

The reality is, that ever since the altcoin became profitable, there are hundreds and hundreds of people monitoring the section and mining EVERY SINGLE COIN.
No exception. Every announced coin is mined by hundreds and hundreds of people.

And you know what happens next? The moment coin hits first serious exchange, most early miners dump the coins. That's if they haven't sold through forum already.
Why? Because 99.9% of the coins does not EVER rise more than that. Guaranteed.

The only way for "dev & friends" to get easy coin is:
1) pre-mine
2) ninja launch

None of this happened, and you have exactly.... 0 proof that "dev & friends" holds millions of coins.

Do you still believe "dev & friends" can hold millions of coins?

If this wasn't enough, do you really think that mystery buyer would spent 6.2mln USD in BTC between 26/05 - 02/06 buying coins dumped by panic sellers?
Having that much money, you're not stupid, especially buying at such dips.

Do you really think someone smart enough to have 6.2mln USD would have dropped that much money into DRK, if he had even a slight suspicion of it being a scam?
If yes, I'm afraid that even reality check might not help, you've lost it.

Yes, the max coin amount is 84,000,000

Est. ~22M Max Coins

And you know what happens next? The moment coin hits first serious exchange, most early miners dump the coins. That's if they haven't sold through forum already.
Why? Because 99.9% of the coins does not EVER rise more than that. Guaranteed.

Most early miners don't mean all, and "dev & friends".

The only way for "dev & friends" to get easy coin is:
1) pre-mine
2) ninja launch
3) Change reward from 500 drk to 2 drk

None of this happened, and you have exactly.... 0 proof that "dev & friends" holds millions of coins. Above section is the proof

Do you still believe "dev & friends" hold millions of coins? Yes

If this wasn't enough, do you really think that mystery buyer would spent 6.2mln USD in BTC between 26/05 - 02/06 buying coins dumped by panic sellers?
Having that much money, you're not stupid, especially buying at such dips. 6.2 mln is not a big money when you own 2 millions dark

Do you really think someone smart enough to have 6.2mln USD would have dropped that much money into DRK, if he had even a slight suspicion of it being a scam?
If yes, I'm afraid that even reality check might not help, you've lost it. That's there are many thread about dark scam, and supporter just have bind eye

[luke997]

(...)

What you just posted doesn't answer the fundamental logic flaws in your hypothesis and accusations.

It sounds like you have memorised a couple lines and keep posting without employing any logic.
Repeating baseless claims (in red) does not make it valid, does not prove that "dev & friends" hold millions and does not prove that particular coin is a scam.

It's very easy to throw accusations around, but without any substance, these are just accusations, and majority don't care about baseless accusations - otherwise DRK would be long forgotten in the crypto cemetery, as countless coins.

Coin has been out for almost 6 months, is actively developed and enjoys steady progress, so I'm not surprised that in environment ridden with scams, failures and sharks looking for easy money, any real work, dedication and success brings a lot hatred.

[thunderlei]

wait for the offical response , will we see it ?

[Ozziecoin]

Btw, this is my alleged pumping link that Greg took exception to: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.msg7159773#msg7159773

Not including the two (IIRC) other OT posts of yours that I outright deleted.

Being the objective staff/moderator that you are of course. Well done mate. Keep it up. You're showing everyone what centralised authority is capable of. Moreover, I have not posted anything on this issue on IIRC.

[eduffield]

CoinJoin is trustless— which is orthogonal with centralized or decentralized, it could be implemented several ways (though trustlessness is usually a prerequisite to a decenteralized implementation). Post 5 in the CoinJoin thread writes in depth about implementing it in a decenteralized way, none of which appears to have been implemented by the darkcoin developers as far as I can tell— from what I've heard it seems that they're not even able to understand it. (This is a disappointment to me, since I was trying to describe these ideas clearly so others could understand them.)

More amusingly, what DarkCoin does is highly centralized because the software is closed— you can't get more centralized than closed source. What the actual behavior is, is anyone's guess— it's impossible to review due to it being closed— though "masternodes" does not sound like something decenteralized, it sounds like something that creates a small chokepoint which could be used to deanonymize its users, like a server based CoinJoin but worse since you have to hold a huge pile of coins to run a server.

As I've said before CoinJoin is interesting because it's inherently part of Bitcoin already— it just needed better tools (and now there are some, e.g. darkwallet) to make it available to people.  It's a privacy improvement over not having it, but it isn't perfect, but it also didn't require any changes to Bitcoin (much less a whole altcoin) to deploy it.  In an incompatible system much better is possible as is proposed by ZeroCash and much better is actually _realized_ by Bytecoin (and its forks... Monero, Fantomcoin, etc.), the later are actually working (if immature, due reinventing many wheels) implementations of much stronger privacy, decenteralized in their implementation, all released under a good open source license.

From what I can tell the only purpose DarkCoin serves is to depress me about the state of humanity.

Wow, so I think you need to go back and look at how Darkcoin started. It was my hobby, I wrote X11 in a weekend and launched it. I was thinking I might be able to write the anon tech into the wallet using a variation of Coinjoin, which I started afterward. Darkcoins success was much like Dogecoin, an accident. Please read this:  https://darkcointalk.org/threads/the-birth-of-darkcoin.162/

Had I know what was going to happen, I would have obviously taken much more care with the launch and tested everything thoroughly. It's too bad we can't all get past that, it irritates me seeing this constantly everywhere.

If you want to checkout the source for Darksend and see how it works I'm open to that. I think you'd be the best person to look it over before it's opened anyway.

[solid12345]

I can forgive the instamine, it may have been a mistake, may have not been. What I can't forgive though is the Dark cartel charging 80 cents to a dollar for the coin for months when it had no anon function. Unless you were lucky to have a mining rig to get all those coins in its first 24-48 hours, Dark has always had a high barrier to entry for most people to accumulate a serious amount of coins. Not sure who to blame, if anyone for any of this, but that is really my main issue, it seems greed has dominated the coin since day 1 by the whales.

[cryptohunter]

Altcoins don't have the luxury of bitcoin. Not even litecoin has it (next year it'll produce another 10mn coins over the existing 29mn - requiring >100mn USD to buy these, so its price has only one way to go... DOWN)... In effect steady minting of coins leads to dead coins due to inflation.
People can't afford to have a coin that goes like 1mn coin this year, 2mn next year, 3mn the year after etc etc. It's guaranteed suicide in terms of investment. Especially in the first months, inflation can be like 2-3% per day, requiring hundreds of BTCs to keep prices steady.

Uh, yea when the coin has no real value to folks and is just a speculative bubble or a speculative hedge... thats what happens. Not my cup of tea at least. As I've said, I normally leave the altcoin stuff alone— except for the rare novel idea, or someone pulling me in for an opinion in one way or another.

gmaxwell's other "contact info"

Other contact info:   
BCN: 23Q8iWbZUtaRdvmpqzoHJy4NwFsRrEqywhjwfbiUqTtqBAHxCNzdctbHZjf1AZKtTkAjgKmhYgkqBU9 T4BEfAgBqKsdS9vi
MRO: 43pCtCRUn6nRdvmpqzoHJy4NwFsRrEqywhjwfbiUqTtqBAHxCNzdctbHZjf1AZKtTkAjgKmhYgkqBU9 T4BEfAgBqKwK21M7
FTM: 6n34ruJrxPU65QLYC3tcAaK8rPGYZrZpD38rJZAwsgjjHGMwSbH8B8MKDwmaG9sPAXT8fwhmRs3PXBq S4y9Ab4UuSKtADUD

And you judge the altcoin space as "incredibly sleazy"?

Keep the noise down drk shill. I want drk back up to peak .... you guys defending the scam are bumping these threads and i'll never get to sell at the price i want for my nice bunch of drk scam coins.

The drk shills are all over other coins claiming scam, picking holes. Stick to your own thread and perhaps the price will go up again. There have been around 20 threads highlighting the pow distribution was a turkey shoot for drk devs and pals. They are mostly bumped by dark shills justifying or denying it happened.

Remain quiet and perhaps people will tire of this scam and find other new scams that can actually be stopped before they grow out of hand.

DRK dev is pretty good at what he does, if he had the entire 2m for himself it would not be so bad as you bunch of greedy slags that got a a bunch for next to nothing by mining when windows miners could not or you scooped up some early sells. I totally changed my mind about evans when he offered in public to do the airdrop. He would have gone for it since he is way smarter than the rest of the drk community. He knows this would have smoothed over the start and allowed the coins to gain a much wider support base.

The start was TERRIBLE so just shut up accept it and these threads will probably die out as more and more scams seem to pop up daily. The focus will eventually shift away from dark if this crap does not rage on forever.

There is no debate, the coin should have been restarted seeing there was no windows wallet and the diff stuck on super instamine settings for hours. However the tempation was too great to keep the coins. We get it. Let's just not let future devs think they can do this kind of stuff.

[T.Stuart]

CoinJoin is trustless— which is orthogonal with centralized or decentralized, it could be implemented several ways (though trustlessness is usually a prerequisite to a decenteralized implementation). Post 5 in the CoinJoin thread writes in depth about implementing it in a decenteralized way, none of which appears to have been implemented by the darkcoin developers as far as I can tell— from what I've heard it seems that they're not even able to understand it. (This is a disappointment to me, since I was trying to describe these ideas clearly so others could understand them.)

More amusingly, what DarkCoin does is highly centralized because the software is closed— you can't get more centralized than closed source. What the actual behavior is, is anyone's guess— it's impossible to review due to it being closed— though "masternodes" does not sound like something decenteralized, it sounds like something that creates a small chokepoint which could be used to deanonymize its users, like a server based CoinJoin but worse since you have to hold a huge pile of coins to run a server.

As I've said before CoinJoin is interesting because it's inherently part of Bitcoin already— it just needed better tools (and now there are some, e.g. darkwallet) to make it available to people.  It's a privacy improvement over not having it, but it isn't perfect, but it also didn't require any changes to Bitcoin (much less a whole altcoin) to deploy it.  In an incompatible system much better is possible as is proposed by ZeroCash and much better is actually _realized_ by Bytecoin (and its forks... Monero, Fantomcoin, etc.), the later are actually working (if immature, due reinventing many wheels) implementations of much stronger privacy, decenteralized in their implementation, all released under a good open source license.

From what I can tell the only purpose DarkCoin serves is to depress me about the state of humanity.

Wow, so I think you need to go back and look at how Darkcoin started. It was my hobby, I wrote X11 in a weekend and launched it. I was thinking I might be able to write the anon tech into the wallet using a variation of Coinjoin, which I started afterward. Darkcoins success was much like Dogecoin, an accident. Please read this:  https://darkcointalk.org/threads/the-birth-of-darkcoin.162/

Had I know what was going to happen, I would have obviously taken much more care with the launch and tested everything thoroughly. It's too bad we can't all get past that, it irritates me seeing this constantly everywhere.

If you want to checkout the source for Darksend and see how it works I'm open to that. I think you'd be the best person to look it over before it's opened anyway.

Respect to you Evan for offering up the code to scrutiny like this, as you promised. And who better to check it out...

[AizenSou]

CoinJoin is trustless— which is orthogonal with centralized or decentralized, it could be implemented several ways (though trustlessness is usually a prerequisite to a decenteralized implementation). Post 5 in the CoinJoin thread writes in depth about implementing it in a decenteralized way, none of which appears to have been implemented by the darkcoin developers as far as I can tell— from what I've heard it seems that they're not even able to understand it. (This is a disappointment to me, since I was trying to describe these ideas clearly so others could understand them.)

More amusingly, what DarkCoin does is highly centralized because the software is closed— you can't get more centralized than closed source. What the actual behavior is, is anyone's guess— it's impossible to review due to it being closed— though "masternodes" does not sound like something decenteralized, it sounds like something that creates a small chokepoint which could be used to deanonymize its users, like a server based CoinJoin but worse since you have to hold a huge pile of coins to run a server.

As I've said before CoinJoin is interesting because it's inherently part of Bitcoin already— it just needed better tools (and now there are some, e.g. darkwallet) to make it available to people.  It's a privacy improvement over not having it, but it isn't perfect, but it also didn't require any changes to Bitcoin (much less a whole altcoin) to deploy it.  In an incompatible system much better is possible as is proposed by ZeroCash and much better is actually _realized_ by Bytecoin (and its forks... Monero, Fantomcoin, etc.), the later are actually working (if immature, due reinventing many wheels) implementations of much stronger privacy, decenteralized in their implementation, all released under a good open source license.

From what I can tell the only purpose DarkCoin serves is to depress me about the state of humanity.

Wow, so I think you need to go back and look at how Darkcoin started. It was my hobby, I wrote X11 in a weekend and launched it. I was thinking I might be able to write the anon tech into the wallet using a variation of Coinjoin, which I started afterward. Darkcoins success was much like Dogecoin, an accident. Please read this:  https://darkcointalk.org/threads/the-birth-of-darkcoin.162/

Had I know what was going to happen, I would have obviously taken much more care with the launch and tested everything thoroughly. It's too bad we can't all get past that, it irritates me seeing this constantly everywhere.

If you want to checkout the source for Darksend and see how it works I'm open to that. I think you'd be the best person to look it over before it's opened anyway.

Evan people just behave like that because your coin successes while they forgive for DOGE because DOGE never explodes in term of price like DRK.

[georgem]

CoinJoin is trustless— which is orthogonal with centralized or decentralized, it could be implemented several ways (though trustlessness is usually a prerequisite to a decenteralized implementation). Post 5 in the CoinJoin thread writes in depth about implementing it in a decenteralized way, none of which appears to have been implemented by the darkcoin developers as far as I can tell— from what I've heard it seems that they're not even able to understand it. (This is a disappointment to me, since I was trying to describe these ideas clearly so others could understand them.)

More amusingly, what DarkCoin does is highly centralized because the software is closed— you can't get more centralized than closed source. What the actual behavior is, is anyone's guess— it's impossible to review due to it being closed— though "masternodes" does not sound like something decenteralized, it sounds like something that creates a small chokepoint which could be used to deanonymize its users, like a server based CoinJoin but worse since you have to hold a huge pile of coins to run a server.

As I've said before CoinJoin is interesting because it's inherently part of Bitcoin already— it just needed better tools (and now there are some, e.g. darkwallet) to make it available to people.  It's a privacy improvement over not having it, but it isn't perfect, but it also didn't require any changes to Bitcoin (much less a whole altcoin) to deploy it.  In an incompatible system much better is possible as is proposed by ZeroCash and much better is actually _realized_ by Bytecoin (and its forks... Monero, Fantomcoin, etc.), the later are actually working (if immature, due reinventing many wheels) implementations of much stronger privacy, decenteralized in their implementation, all released under a good open source license.

From what I can tell the only purpose DarkCoin serves is to depress me about the state of humanity.

Wow, so I think you need to go back and look at how Darkcoin started. It was my hobby, I wrote X11 in a weekend and launched it. I was thinking I might be able to write the anon tech into the wallet using a variation of Coinjoin, which I started afterward. Darkcoins success was much like Dogecoin, an accident. Please read this:  https://darkcointalk.org/threads/the-birth-of-darkcoin.162/

Had I know what was going to happen, I would have obviously taken much more care with the launch and tested everything thoroughly. It's too bad we can't all get past that, it irritates me seeing this constantly everywhere.

If you want to checkout the source for Darksend and see how it works I'm open to that. I think you'd be the best person to look it over before it's opened anyway.

Respect to you Evan for offering up the code to scrutiny like this, as you promised. And who better to check it out...

+1

[Solaris1977BE]

Man,for newcomers its so hard to decide what coin to invest in.(first btc bought at 800€=idiot)
I invested like 20BTC and thats everything i could spare into crypto on Darkcoin from 0.0036 all the way up to 0.0145.

Yes i am starting to panic seeing that price drop from 0.0280 but i decided to strap on a extra pair of nuts and go all or nothing meaning i will hold my DRK.
tbh i dont think DRK is a scam like for example FLAP&co what wtf do i know? nothing.
What will the market=people all over the globe do ? buy or sell,invest or ignore..who really knows?charts dont predict everything.

All i know is that i am swimming in a sea full of hungry nasty sharks and for me it depends on luck if i get to the beach safely.

To Evan:goodluck and godspeed with your coin man;know there are shrimps like me out there that invested heavily into your coin just hoping for the best and some financial luck,tired of being squeezed out like a lemon by corrupt banks and goverments.

To all the trashtalkers spreading fear and panic: go fuck yourselves