Am I the only one that doesn't stand for the pledge and the national anthem?

[Matthew N. Wright]

From all the countries I went to school, only the USA has this pledge of allegiance nonsense. Not even Nazi Germany had this nonsense. Maybe only North Korea.

In fact before WWII, US schools used to do the Pledge with a Nazi-looking Roman salute

rofl. Creepy.

I think Boss is atlas (sorry if wrong boss). Anyway, I hold many similar opinions (flag worship behavior is creepy, going to church is creepy, etc)... but it is important to understand the value of an opinion. Opinions are like assholes right??

Do something and show you are productive, then people will take you seriously. If you haven't (or fail to succeed at) proving your worth, expect to be treated like an asshole.

Of course he's Atlas. He's been banned by Theymos and keeps coming back because he thinks we need him here or else we just won't function be able to function. 

[Ean]

a country that has single handedly proven that freedoms and democracy are possible.

When did this happen?

[Snapman]

A country is such a spook of an idea especially when an entity or culture can only genuinely represent so many people, let alone 350 million in the United States. Why stand for something so intangible? Why pay any regard to it? Why should I pledge allegiance to anything purportedly above myself?

I refused to stand for the national anthem at a hockey game today and I got nasty looks but isn't that what the United States is supposed to stand for; individual liberty?

Ive done the same thing, i even had a bunch of  douche bag military doods (clearly privates fresh outta boot) come upto me after the game to try and start something. When it came to intellectual conversation, i left them at the gate. With my words and my trusty butterfly knife, i got out of that situation in one piece. All that did was re-enforce the idea that United States citizens are mindless sheep, who group up together to rag-tag the "unpatriotic terrorist funder who refused to bow down to the flag."

Edit: just finished reading the thread, that "They gave you the right to vote" shit just doesnt cut it any more. Yes our forefathers and a few generations above that take that claim, but the shit that our military is responsible for these days is just horrendous. For fuck sake, Iran Contra/Oliver North, need i continue? Parts of our military were responsible for smuggling coke into this country. These days its the heroin, and thats admitted that our troops are being used to help the farmers in the area continue to harvest the opium, which eventually makes it to the streets of this "great nation..."

That flag has been used to drape the backs of some of the sickest individual we call our leaders. Its like when i was watching cspan, and this senator was supporting legislation that would have gotten any other person a charge of treason. Yet because he had TWO, COUNT EM, 2 flags lapel pins on that day, he was counted as a "man of the year" type person that ends up on times magazine.

[interlagos]

I think Matthew is playing with you guys, i.e. expressing the opinion he really doesn't stand for.
I do that sometimes as well just to see where the conversation is going.

Every sane person would understand by now that all the crap that we've been through and have been taught in the school is a delusion.
It felt different when we were younger, but I always had this gut feeling that something was wrong.
Things are changing now. Here is set of must see videos for those who are still asleep to start bootstrapping the Big Picture:

Judge Napolitano:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zyo10lusCY
George Carlin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
Onion Network:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojmOESqVeak
Alex Jones:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAztH_mkGwo
The American Dream:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5TlbloU
End Of Liberty:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQv-sdMCClQ

I you haven't woken up by now, you are in real trouble...

[Hawker]

interlagos, you must devote your life to youtube. 

[interlagos]

interlagos, you must devote your life to youtube. 

I did

[Matthew N. Wright]

I think Matthew is playing with you guys, i.e. expressing the opinion he really doesn't stand for.
I do that sometimes as well just to see where the conversation is going.

Every sane person would understand by now that all the crap that we've been through and have been taught in the school is a delusion.
It felt different when we were younger, but I always had this gut feeling that something was wrong.
Things are changing now. Here is set of must see videos for those who are still asleep to start bootstrapping the Big Picture:

Judge Napolitano:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zyo10lusCY
George Carlin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
Onion Network:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojmOESqVeak
Alex Jones:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAztH_mkGwo
The American Dream:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5TlbloU
End Of Liberty:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQv-sdMCClQ

I you haven't woken up by now, you are in real trouble...

It's called Devil's advocate, and I'm glad someone finally understands that about me. I put it in my profile for the Satoshi Superstar competition as well that I am one of the most annoying Devil's Advocates on these forums.

[joulesbeef]

oooo i get so tired of the


"am I the only one with brains on the planet" posts. You hear it a lot from libertarians.


our country may not be perfect, but lets just say we disagree on weather a country can be made up of 300 million people. Plus we tried it your way back before the great D and before the fed, with low taxes, nearly no regulations, states were powerful... and you want to know something? IT SUCKED FUCKING BALLS FOR MOST OF US. I dont want to be paid in corporate script while I fight with a ten year old for a job.

[Hawker]

oooo i get so tired of the


"am I the only one with brains on the planet" posts. You hear it a lot from libertarians.


our country may not be perfect, but lets just say we disagree on weather a country can be made up of 300 million people. Plus we tried it your way back before the great D and before the fed, with low taxes, nearly no regulations, states were powerful... and you want to know something? IT SUCKED FUCKING BALLS FOR MOST OF US. I dont want to be paid in corporate script while I fight with a ten year old for a job.

lol that is brilliant.

[Jon]

oooo i get so tired of the


"am I the only one with brains on the planet" posts. You hear it a lot from libertarians.


our country may not be perfect, but lets just say we disagree on weather a country can be made up of 300 million people. Plus we tried it your way back before the great D and before the fed, with low taxes, nearly no regulations, states were powerful... and you want to know something? IT SUCKED FUCKING BALLS FOR MOST OF US. I dont want to be paid in corporate script while I fight with a ten year old for a job.

lol that is brilliant.

No it isn't brilliant because in the global job marketplace of which all of you are competing you are ludicrously overpriced compared to that Indian or Bengali 10 year old who is better versed and more responsive then your average American wage slave.

I'll tell you what's slavery:

Forcing innovators to pay absurd wages for people who demand a wasteful cost-of-living. Most of the world can live off less than $50 a month. What first-world welfare queens demand -- far beyond that -- is absurd and has created an overpriced marketplace. We have created an extremely wasteful society and the first-world is suffering as a result. Manufacturers and innovation are leaving for better and more sensible places: Places with actual wealth creation.

[Hawker]

oooo i get so tired of the


"am I the only one with brains on the planet" posts. You hear it a lot from libertarians.


our country may not be perfect, but lets just say we disagree on weather a country can be made up of 300 million people. Plus we tried it your way back before the great D and before the fed, with low taxes, nearly no regulations, states were powerful... and you want to know something? IT SUCKED FUCKING BALLS FOR MOST OF US. I dont want to be paid in corporate script while I fight with a ten year old for a job.

lol that is brilliant.

No it isn't brilliant because in the global job marketplace of which all of you are competing you are ludicrously overpriced compared to that Indian or Bengali 10 year old who is better versed and more responsive then your average American wage slave.

Politics is about making life better than it is now.  How does reducing the living standards of Americans to that of Indians make life better for Americans? 

[Jon]

oooo i get so tired of the


"am I the only one with brains on the planet" posts. You hear it a lot from libertarians.


our country may not be perfect, but lets just say we disagree on weather a country can be made up of 300 million people. Plus we tried it your way back before the great D and before the fed, with low taxes, nearly no regulations, states were powerful... and you want to know something? IT SUCKED FUCKING BALLS FOR MOST OF US. I dont want to be paid in corporate script while I fight with a ten year old for a job.

lol that is brilliant.

No it isn't brilliant because in the global job marketplace of which all of you are competing you are ludicrously overpriced compared to that Indian or Bengali 10 year old who is better versed and more responsive then your average American wage slave.

Politics is about making life better than it is now.  How does reducing the living standards of Americans to that of Indians make life better for Americans? 

The question is why should we force 10 year old children in developing countries to subsistence farming and prostitution because American manufacturing workers want 6-figure pension?

[Hawker]

...snip...

The question is why should we force 10 year old children in developing countries to subsistence farming and prostitution because American manufacturing workers want 6-figure pension?

Is it your position that you want the US worker to be as poor as the 10 year old? 

[Jon]

...snip...

The question is why should we force 10 year old children in developing countries to subsistence farming and prostitution because American manufacturing workers want 6-figure pension?

Is it your position that you want the US worker to be as poor as the 10 year old? 

My position is only that people should be able to associate as they please within the purviews of their culture. The ends of this are not entirely definable but they can be considered preferable.

[Hawker]

...snip...

The question is why should we force 10 year old children in developing countries to subsistence farming and prostitution because American manufacturing workers want 6-figure pension?

Is it your position that you want the US worker to be as poor as the 10 year old? 

My position is only that people should be able to associate as they please within the purviews of their culture. The ends of this are not entirely definable but they can be considered preferable.

If your changes mean a fall in living standards, why should anyone listen to you?

[Jon]

...snip...

The question is why should we force 10 year old children in developing countries to subsistence farming and prostitution because American manufacturing workers want 6-figure pension?

Is it your position that you want the US worker to be as poor as the 10 year old? 

My position is only that people should be able to associate as they please within the purviews of their culture. The ends of this are not entirely definable but they can be considered preferable.

If your changes mean a fall in living standards, why should anyone listen to you?

Heh, my changes won't. What will result in a fall of living standards is legislation that convinces all of our nation's innovators to move elsewhere, as they are now.

[Hawker]

You aren't making sense.  What exactly are you proposing and where do the 10 year olds come in?

[Jon]

You aren't making sense.  What exactly are you proposing and where do the 10 year olds come in?

People around the world (10 or otherwise) work for lower wages. I suggest Americans should be able to do the same. If somebody wants to assemble product for less than 8 dollars an hour, they should be able to.

[Hawker]

You aren't making sense.  What exactly are you proposing and where do the 10 year olds come in?

People around the world (10 or otherwise) work for lower wages. I suggest Americans should be able to do the same. If somebody wants to assemble product for less than 8 dollars an hour, they should be able to.

So you want Americans to start work a lot younger and to earn a lot less.

Well since you aren't allowed to own slaves anymore, I suppose its fair enough.  I presume you will have a "sound thrashing for sass" clause in your employment contract?

[Jon]

You aren't making sense.  What exactly are you proposing and where do the 10 year olds come in?

People around the world (10 or otherwise) work for lower wages. I suggest Americans should be able to do the same. If somebody wants to assemble product for less than 8 dollars an hour, they should be able to.

So you want Americans to start work a lot younger and to earn a lot less.

Well since you aren't allowed to own slaves anymore, I suppose its fair enough.  I presume you will have a "sound thrashing for sass" clause in your employment contract?

It will be worse once things collapse.