Am I the only one that doesn't stand for the pledge and the national anthem?

[Jon]

A country is such a spook of an idea especially when an entity or culture can only genuinely represent so many people, let alone 350 million in the United States. Why stand for something so intangible? Why pay any regard to it? Why should I pledge allegiance to anything purportedly above myself?

I refused to stand for the national anthem at a hockey game today and I got nasty looks but isn't that what the United States is supposed to stand for; individual liberty?

[1715059407]

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[ZodiacDragon84]

I am terrified of my country, the US of A. worst crooks ever.

[Matthew N. Wright]

A country is such a spook of an idea especially when an entity or culture can only genuinely represent so many people, let alone 350 million in the United States. Why stand for something so intangible? Why pay any regard to it? Why should I pledge allegiance to anything purportedly above myself?

I refused to stand for the national anthem at a hockey game today and I got nasty looks but isn't that what the United States is supposed to stand for; individual liberty?

The reason people were looking at you is because you did something intending to make a statement, which they received, and in their perception of how generations upon generations of people have given their lives and freedoms so that snot like you could even go to a hockey game, they don't appreciate your sentiments and I wouldn't either. I don't pray at dinner tables where people are praying, but I don't start a thread about it to get attention.

Such an attention whore. Seriously, are you that desperate to be noticed and make a statement? Why don't you run for office then? I'm serious. Why are you the biggest non-active loser in the world who also happens to think he's got it all figured out? Do something with it for christ's sake. Prove it. Why are you wasting your time here on a forum preaching to people who think you're handicapped?


Back to point, requiring pledging allegiance to the flag would be unconstitutional, but so would requiring you to not use your cellphone at a funeral. Once again, you fail to miss the finer details of society as a whole and trade them for a self-fulfilling prophecy of how you need to up against odds with the world in order to be a part of it.

Need much growing up, you do.

[westkybitcoins]

I stand out of respect for the crowd, just like I would if at an event that was hosting a group from another country and their flag was shown and their national anthem played. But placing my hand over my heart, or pledging allegiance to the thing? No, I concluded that was inappropriate (at least for myself) some time ago.

[Matthew N. Wright]

I stand out of respect for the crowd, just like I would if at an event that was hosting a group from another country and their flag was shown and their national anthem played. But placing my hand over my heart, or pledging allegiance to the thing? No, I concluded that was inappropriate (at least for myself) some time ago.

Bingo. That's the correct attitude to have. Next thing you know, Atlas is going to say "I met with a Chinese person the other day on a vacation to China and when they bowed to me, I refused to bow back. I bow for no man!". God what an imbecile. For someone who pretends to live for symbolism, he sure doesn't know the first thing about self-presentation.

[ZodiacDragon84]

ha ha. he said Atlas. I stand. mainly because mobs kicking my ass don't sound like a good time

[Jon]

A country is such a spook of an idea especially when an entity or culture can only genuinely represent so many people, let alone 350 million in the United States. Why stand for something so intangible? Why pay any regard to it? Why should I pledge allegiance to anything purportedly above myself?

I refused to stand for the national anthem at a hockey game today and I got nasty looks but isn't that what the United States is supposed to stand for; individual liberty?

...which they received, and in their perception of how generations upon generations of people have given their lives and freedoms...

...to agendas and wars that trampled over the constitution, innocent lives, took away powers from individual states and cultures, that put populations into slavery with debt while stifling economic productivity and innovation. All-in-all for bigotry and totalitarianism through which is now the world's centralized military power. Gotcha. I have even more reason not to stand for an anthem, the pledge and the generations of apathetic sheep that have ruined our world.

Both of my grandfather's served in the military. My great-great-grandfather lost his leg in the Civil War. Yes, I find their efforts a waste but I do value them for who they are.

[Matthew N. Wright]

To agendas and wars that trampled over the constitution,

To wars that we fought with the British to gain our freedoms and rights.

innocent lives,

and the lives of horrible child raping, murderous dogs who would otherwise roam our streets if it weren't for the police

took away powers from individual states and cultures,

And gave us the right to vote and do anything we want to change the system in numbers

putting populations into slavery with debt

and doing everything possible to stand up against going into more debt while keeping our country safe and organizing the systems people like your parents voted to be created and maintained at any cost

while stifling economic productivity and innovation.

Assembly line. Automotive industry. Silicon valley. Airline industry. Microchip industry. Foods industry. Service industry. The largest country of startups in the world.

Gotcha. I have ever more reason not to stand for an anthem, the pledge and the generations of apathetic sheep that have ruined our world.

You know what's worse than sheep? Idiots who don't know their history. When you speak about America, you too easily discount the past 250 years. You're a Ron Paul fan, and yet he is part of the system as well. You can't be against America if you're for saving it, you just have to be against yourself for not saving it-- which you're not...at all...even in the slightest...trying to do. That makes you a retarded, loud mouthed sheep.

EDIT: When are you out of high school so you can run for office? When will you finally not be a worthless drudge on society and actually start doing something with your passions? Are you planning on being a loudmouthed soapboxer your entire life because "the system is corrupt"? Planning on terrorist attacks to "shake things up"? The only thing you'll ever do is keep taking money from your parents, continue to speak about something way beyond your age in noticeable immature, and continue to make yourself stand out in a bad way. You really aren't going to have a productive life nor a very successful one. The only people who listen to the crap you speak are the ones interested in using a pawn to do their extremist dirty work. I look forward to ejecting you without a parachute when you try to blow up my plane because "Bitcoin" and "down with America because they don't accept Bitcoin".

[Jon]

The original revolution and its respective maintenance were the only wars worth fighting in my book. I don't see benefits coming from anything else.

The right to vote on a federal level is more of a ball-and-chain than a freedom. It allows the many to rob the few and the property holders through a centralized regime. How lovely?

The problem is "the system". There needs to be many systems with various rules of conduct according to their respective cultures.

There is no America. It is a spook. It represents nothing. Cultures do not go that far. Startups, industry and all else can only be represented by the genuinely affected parties.

I support Ron Paul because he represents my goal of dismantling the entire Federal Government. He is not a part of the system; he is against it and so am I.

I am for many different systems for many different people.

One rule respects nobody but its rulers.

[Matthew N. Wright]

The original revolution was the only worth fighting in my book. I don't see the benefits to come from anything else.

Guess what-- when you pledge allegiance to the flag (the one that was created back then), you are in fact giving honor to those who died fighting in the original revolution. Nobody pledges allegiance to the flag for current activities. Has anyone ever done that in the history of the USA? Have you ever heard a President say, "Now let's take a moment to remember what I just did just now. Please stand and put your hand over your heart to address me the way I should be"? You're delusional (big surprise).

The right to vote on a federal level is more of a ball-and-chain than a freedom.

Yes, rights are balls and chains. Having the ability to change things creates responsibility doesn't it. Isn't it great how that works? Why don't you try taking some responsibility for the America that you aren't helping to change asshole and stop blaming it on everyone else while you play TF2 with your parents money?

It allows the many to rob the few and the property holders through a centralized regime. How lovely?

Voting is robbing now? 

The problem is "the system". There needs to be many systems with various rules of conduct according to their respective cultures.

Cultures are based on systems, idiot. If the problem is "the system", then the problem is effectively "culture".

There is no America.

Oh okay, I was wondering what the symbols on my passport mean, the taxes I pay, the benefits I receive, the responsibilities I share, and the men and women who work hard to keep people happy, healthy and sane on middle North American region. Usually we just call it "America". You can make up new definitions if you'd like (it seems to be the only way you have to win an argument).

I support Ron Paul because he represents my goal of dismantling the entire Federal Government. He is not a part of the system; he is against it and so am I.

Lies. Ron Paul loves the system. He is the most pro-constitution elective since the founding fathers. He doesn't want to dismantle the system, he wants to reassign responsibilities in a way that allows freedoms to be properly given with choice. Also, as a Doctor, he is against abortion. He would make it illegal if he could. By that alone, he is "evil" and "against your freedoms and liberties". Go back to school tomorrow and ask your libertarian teacher the answer to the next question so we can continue this.

I am for many different systems for many different people.

Good! That's the first interesting thing you've said in this entire thread. Lead with that next time.

[Jon]

The Constitution allows for the states to secede.

[Matthew N. Wright]

The Constitution allows for the states to secede.

Sure does! And some have even considered it! But the negative impact on the citizens (who ideally wouldn't want to lose the communist benefits of the Federal government supporting them in times that their own production, manufacturing, etc isn't doing so hot) has kept them from ever going through with it.

Personally, I think Ron Paul has the right idea. Minimize the federal government influence. The thing is, even then people like you won't be happy because you'll say "This state is corrupt!" instead of "This country is corrupt!" because you're a loudmouth who doesn't get any actual work done. In that case though, I truly hope you move out of the USA ASAP so you can find a country that requires no effort to maintain and still produces wealth around the clock without a single threat of invasion.
 

[Stardust]

From all the countries I went to school, only the USA has this pledge of allegiance nonsense. Not even Nazi Germany had this nonsense. Maybe only North Korea.

This goes for flags too, outside the US, you don't see normal people hoisting up flags of their country.

[Matthew N. Wright]

From all the countries I went to school, only the USA has this pledge of allegiance nonsense. Not even Nazi Germany had this nonsense. Maybe only North Korea.

This goes for flags too, outside the US, you don't see normal people hoisting up flags of their country.

As ridiculous as the concept may seem, many Americans regardless of their reasoning, feel proud to be a part of a country that has single handedly proven that freedoms and democracy are possible. There is no country like America on earth, for the good or the bad.

[Jon]

In Hong Kong, you can get a business permit in less than one day. America is a different story.

[Matthew N. Wright]

In Hong Kong, you can get a business permit in less than one day. America is a different story.

Do you know how small Hong Kong is? You can do the same in most small countries.

It's interesting you think Hong Kong is mildly fair or nice in comparison to the USA. Did you not know that people regularly clip their toenails on the subways, that the pollution is unbearable and that you are fined HK$1500 for spitting?

Like I said, the only way your points ever work for you is when you redefine things the way you want or selectively choose supporting points only. This is a true sign of someone without any understanding of society.

[Stardust]

As ridiculous as the concept may seem, many Americans regardless of their reasoning, feel proud to be a part of a country that has single handedly proven that freedoms and democracy are possible. There is no country like America on earth, for the good or the bad.

If America is that great why are you in South Korea?

[Matthew N. Wright]

In Hong Kong, you can get a business permit in less than one day. America is a different story.

I'd also like to point out that the type of business directly affects the tome required to register. Ask Zhou Tong if he can get a permit for Bitcoinica in a day. We all know its more like 6 months.

As ridiculous as the concept may seem, many Americans regardless of their reasoning, feel proud to be a part of a country that has single handedly proven that freedoms and democracy are possible. There is no country like America on earth, for the good or the bad.

If America is that great why are you in South Korea?

I've mentioned numerous times on these forums that I do not agree with the way America is being run into the ground in recent years. My reasons for being in South Korea though are entirely superficial. I'm an oppurtunist with yellow fever. I was destined for Asia.

[Lazer]

From all the countries I went to school, only the USA has this pledge of allegiance nonsense. Not even Nazi Germany had this nonsense. Maybe only North Korea.

In fact before WWII, US schools used to do the Pledge with a Nazi-looking Roman salute

[bb113]

I think Boss is atlas (sorry if wrong boss). Anyway, I hold many similar opinions (flag worship behavior is creepy, going to church is creepy, etc)... but it is important to understand the value of an opinion. Opinions are like assholes right??

Do something and show you are productive, then people will take you seriously. If you haven't (or fail to succeed at) proving your worth, expect to be treated like an asshole.

[Matthew N. Wright]

From all the countries I went to school, only the USA has this pledge of allegiance nonsense. Not even Nazi Germany had this nonsense. Maybe only North Korea.

In fact before WWII, US schools used to do the Pledge with a Nazi-looking Roman salute

rofl. Creepy.

I think Boss is atlas (sorry if wrong boss). Anyway, I hold many similar opinions (flag worship behavior is creepy, going to church is creepy, etc)... but it is important to understand the value of an opinion. Opinions are like assholes right??

Do something and show you are productive, then people will take you seriously. If you haven't (or fail to succeed at) proving your worth, expect to be treated like an asshole.

Of course he's Atlas. He's been banned by Theymos and keeps coming back because he thinks we need him here or else we just won't function be able to function. 

[Ean]

a country that has single handedly proven that freedoms and democracy are possible.

When did this happen?

[Snapman]

A country is such a spook of an idea especially when an entity or culture can only genuinely represent so many people, let alone 350 million in the United States. Why stand for something so intangible? Why pay any regard to it? Why should I pledge allegiance to anything purportedly above myself?

I refused to stand for the national anthem at a hockey game today and I got nasty looks but isn't that what the United States is supposed to stand for; individual liberty?

Ive done the same thing, i even had a bunch of  douche bag military doods (clearly privates fresh outta boot) come upto me after the game to try and start something. When it came to intellectual conversation, i left them at the gate. With my words and my trusty butterfly knife, i got out of that situation in one piece. All that did was re-enforce the idea that United States citizens are mindless sheep, who group up together to rag-tag the "unpatriotic terrorist funder who refused to bow down to the flag."

Edit: just finished reading the thread, that "They gave you the right to vote" shit just doesnt cut it any more. Yes our forefathers and a few generations above that take that claim, but the shit that our military is responsible for these days is just horrendous. For fuck sake, Iran Contra/Oliver North, need i continue? Parts of our military were responsible for smuggling coke into this country. These days its the heroin, and thats admitted that our troops are being used to help the farmers in the area continue to harvest the opium, which eventually makes it to the streets of this "great nation..."

That flag has been used to drape the backs of some of the sickest individual we call our leaders. Its like when i was watching cspan, and this senator was supporting legislation that would have gotten any other person a charge of treason. Yet because he had TWO, COUNT EM, 2 flags lapel pins on that day, he was counted as a "man of the year" type person that ends up on times magazine.

[interlagos]

I think Matthew is playing with you guys, i.e. expressing the opinion he really doesn't stand for.
I do that sometimes as well just to see where the conversation is going.

Every sane person would understand by now that all the crap that we've been through and have been taught in the school is a delusion.
It felt different when we were younger, but I always had this gut feeling that something was wrong.
Things are changing now. Here is set of must see videos for those who are still asleep to start bootstrapping the Big Picture:

Judge Napolitano:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zyo10lusCY
George Carlin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
Onion Network:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojmOESqVeak
Alex Jones:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAztH_mkGwo
The American Dream:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5TlbloU
End Of Liberty:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQv-sdMCClQ

I you haven't woken up by now, you are in real trouble...

[Hawker]

interlagos, you must devote your life to youtube. 

[interlagos]

interlagos, you must devote your life to youtube. 

I did

[Matthew N. Wright]

I think Matthew is playing with you guys, i.e. expressing the opinion he really doesn't stand for.
I do that sometimes as well just to see where the conversation is going.

Every sane person would understand by now that all the crap that we've been through and have been taught in the school is a delusion.
It felt different when we were younger, but I always had this gut feeling that something was wrong.
Things are changing now. Here is set of must see videos for those who are still asleep to start bootstrapping the Big Picture:

Judge Napolitano:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zyo10lusCY
George Carlin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
Onion Network:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojmOESqVeak
Alex Jones:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAztH_mkGwo
The American Dream:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5TlbloU
End Of Liberty:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQv-sdMCClQ

I you haven't woken up by now, you are in real trouble...

It's called Devil's advocate, and I'm glad someone finally understands that about me. I put it in my profile for the Satoshi Superstar competition as well that I am one of the most annoying Devil's Advocates on these forums.

[joulesbeef]

oooo i get so tired of the


"am I the only one with brains on the planet" posts. You hear it a lot from libertarians.


our country may not be perfect, but lets just say we disagree on weather a country can be made up of 300 million people. Plus we tried it your way back before the great D and before the fed, with low taxes, nearly no regulations, states were powerful... and you want to know something? IT SUCKED FUCKING BALLS FOR MOST OF US. I dont want to be paid in corporate script while I fight with a ten year old for a job.

[Hawker]

oooo i get so tired of the


"am I the only one with brains on the planet" posts. You hear it a lot from libertarians.


our country may not be perfect, but lets just say we disagree on weather a country can be made up of 300 million people. Plus we tried it your way back before the great D and before the fed, with low taxes, nearly no regulations, states were powerful... and you want to know something? IT SUCKED FUCKING BALLS FOR MOST OF US. I dont want to be paid in corporate script while I fight with a ten year old for a job.

lol that is brilliant.

[Jon]

oooo i get so tired of the


"am I the only one with brains on the planet" posts. You hear it a lot from libertarians.


our country may not be perfect, but lets just say we disagree on weather a country can be made up of 300 million people. Plus we tried it your way back before the great D and before the fed, with low taxes, nearly no regulations, states were powerful... and you want to know something? IT SUCKED FUCKING BALLS FOR MOST OF US. I dont want to be paid in corporate script while I fight with a ten year old for a job.

lol that is brilliant.

No it isn't brilliant because in the global job marketplace of which all of you are competing you are ludicrously overpriced compared to that Indian or Bengali 10 year old who is better versed and more responsive then your average American wage slave.

I'll tell you what's slavery:

Forcing innovators to pay absurd wages for people who demand a wasteful cost-of-living. Most of the world can live off less than $50 a month. What first-world welfare queens demand -- far beyond that -- is absurd and has created an overpriced marketplace. We have created an extremely wasteful society and the first-world is suffering as a result. Manufacturers and innovation are leaving for better and more sensible places: Places with actual wealth creation.

[Hawker]

oooo i get so tired of the


"am I the only one with brains on the planet" posts. You hear it a lot from libertarians.


our country may not be perfect, but lets just say we disagree on weather a country can be made up of 300 million people. Plus we tried it your way back before the great D and before the fed, with low taxes, nearly no regulations, states were powerful... and you want to know something? IT SUCKED FUCKING BALLS FOR MOST OF US. I dont want to be paid in corporate script while I fight with a ten year old for a job.

lol that is brilliant.

No it isn't brilliant because in the global job marketplace of which all of you are competing you are ludicrously overpriced compared to that Indian or Bengali 10 year old who is better versed and more responsive then your average American wage slave.

Politics is about making life better than it is now.  How does reducing the living standards of Americans to that of Indians make life better for Americans? 

[Jon]

oooo i get so tired of the


"am I the only one with brains on the planet" posts. You hear it a lot from libertarians.


our country may not be perfect, but lets just say we disagree on weather a country can be made up of 300 million people. Plus we tried it your way back before the great D and before the fed, with low taxes, nearly no regulations, states were powerful... and you want to know something? IT SUCKED FUCKING BALLS FOR MOST OF US. I dont want to be paid in corporate script while I fight with a ten year old for a job.

lol that is brilliant.

No it isn't brilliant because in the global job marketplace of which all of you are competing you are ludicrously overpriced compared to that Indian or Bengali 10 year old who is better versed and more responsive then your average American wage slave.

Politics is about making life better than it is now.  How does reducing the living standards of Americans to that of Indians make life better for Americans? 

The question is why should we force 10 year old children in developing countries to subsistence farming and prostitution because American manufacturing workers want 6-figure pension?

[Hawker]

...snip...

The question is why should we force 10 year old children in developing countries to subsistence farming and prostitution because American manufacturing workers want 6-figure pension?

Is it your position that you want the US worker to be as poor as the 10 year old? 

[Jon]

...snip...

The question is why should we force 10 year old children in developing countries to subsistence farming and prostitution because American manufacturing workers want 6-figure pension?

Is it your position that you want the US worker to be as poor as the 10 year old? 

My position is only that people should be able to associate as they please within the purviews of their culture. The ends of this are not entirely definable but they can be considered preferable.

[Hawker]

...snip...

The question is why should we force 10 year old children in developing countries to subsistence farming and prostitution because American manufacturing workers want 6-figure pension?

Is it your position that you want the US worker to be as poor as the 10 year old? 

My position is only that people should be able to associate as they please within the purviews of their culture. The ends of this are not entirely definable but they can be considered preferable.

If your changes mean a fall in living standards, why should anyone listen to you?

[Jon]

...snip...

The question is why should we force 10 year old children in developing countries to subsistence farming and prostitution because American manufacturing workers want 6-figure pension?

Is it your position that you want the US worker to be as poor as the 10 year old? 

My position is only that people should be able to associate as they please within the purviews of their culture. The ends of this are not entirely definable but they can be considered preferable.

If your changes mean a fall in living standards, why should anyone listen to you?

Heh, my changes won't. What will result in a fall of living standards is legislation that convinces all of our nation's innovators to move elsewhere, as they are now.

[Hawker]

You aren't making sense.  What exactly are you proposing and where do the 10 year olds come in?

[Jon]

You aren't making sense.  What exactly are you proposing and where do the 10 year olds come in?

People around the world (10 or otherwise) work for lower wages. I suggest Americans should be able to do the same. If somebody wants to assemble product for less than 8 dollars an hour, they should be able to.

[Hawker]

You aren't making sense.  What exactly are you proposing and where do the 10 year olds come in?

People around the world (10 or otherwise) work for lower wages. I suggest Americans should be able to do the same. If somebody wants to assemble product for less than 8 dollars an hour, they should be able to.

So you want Americans to start work a lot younger and to earn a lot less.

Well since you aren't allowed to own slaves anymore, I suppose its fair enough.  I presume you will have a "sound thrashing for sass" clause in your employment contract?

[Jon]

You aren't making sense.  What exactly are you proposing and where do the 10 year olds come in?

People around the world (10 or otherwise) work for lower wages. I suggest Americans should be able to do the same. If somebody wants to assemble product for less than 8 dollars an hour, they should be able to.

So you want Americans to start work a lot younger and to earn a lot less.

Well since you aren't allowed to own slaves anymore, I suppose its fair enough.  I presume you will have a "sound thrashing for sass" clause in your employment contract?

It will be worse once things collapse.

[Hawker]

You aren't making sense.  What exactly are you proposing and where do the 10 year olds come in?

People around the world (10 or otherwise) work for lower wages. I suggest Americans should be able to do the same. If somebody wants to assemble product for less than 8 dollars an hour, they should be able to.

So you want Americans to start work a lot younger and to earn a lot less.

Well since you aren't allowed to own slaves anymore, I suppose its fair enough.  I presume you will have a "sound thrashing for sass" clause in your employment contract?

It will be worse once things collapse.

Ah the inevitable collapse.  Any minute now the whole system will come crashing down won't it?

[Jon]

You aren't making sense.  What exactly are you proposing and where do the 10 year olds come in?

People around the world (10 or otherwise) work for lower wages. I suggest Americans should be able to do the same. If somebody wants to assemble product for less than 8 dollars an hour, they should be able to.

So you want Americans to start work a lot younger and to earn a lot less.

Well since you aren't allowed to own slaves anymore, I suppose its fair enough.  I presume you will have a "sound thrashing for sass" clause in your employment contract?

It will be worse once things collapse.

Ah the inevitable collapse.  Any minute now the whole system will come crashing down won't it?

In less than 10 years, we won't be able to pay the interest on our debt.

[Hawker]

...snip...

By the way, I am not arguing for protectionism. Consumers need to learn to make the choices on their own. Perhaps the equalization will prove good for the world as a whole, but the once most powerful nations in the world will suffer for it. Or maybe it will bring everyone to the level of slave labor?

...snip...

Or maybe the entire premise of allowing unfettered competition gets rethought?  

[Hawker]

...snip...

In less than 10 years, we won't be able to pay the interest on our debt.

America's debt is owed to Americans.  If you decide to inflate it away, it will go away and America will still be a fine rich country. 

Or do you imagine millions of angry grannies will overthrow the state and demand their money back? 

[the joint]

This is directed to "Boss" and Matthew:

I understand both of your points quite well, but ultimately, I think "Boss" has a greater point, and even though I don't believe he stated it as such, here's how I look at it:

Simply put, nationalism is a step away from racism.  While the point about showing respect and not causing a scene simply to cause a scene is spot on, I think Matthew's analogy to a Chinese man bowing and the "Boss" failing to reciprocate the bow is inaccurate.  This is an example of one man showing respect to another man directly.  Standing for the Pledge is quite different.

Virtually every war in the history of mankind, and definitely all forms of oppression, are created out of a self-vs.-other paradigm.  Nationalism only reinforces that self-vs.-other paradigm and in my opinion, it's fucking stupid.

Now, I understand that it takes a very idyllic mindset (and a stubborn one) to cause the scene that the "Boss" did.  I'm guilty of this myself and I've done it on a number of occasions, albeit with declining frequency as I grow older.  But, the thing is we need people like "Boss" making these kinds of statements.  Experience will tame his stubbornness over time.  I'm still learning that while there are things about America I loathe, I also still really like myself.  Because I am a product of American society, I must be grateful to it -- ALL of it -- at the same time that I want to change it.

[Jon]

...snip...

In less than 10 years, we won't be able to pay the interest on our debt.

America's debt is owed to Americans.  If you decide to inflate it away, it will go away and America will still be a fine rich country. 

Or do you imagine millions of angry grannies will overthrow the state and demand their money back? 

America's debt is owed to a non-governmental agency called The Federal Reserve. They'll happily destroy the currency while they hold other assets.

The Americans? They'll be left with nothing.

[Hawker]

...snip...

In less than 10 years, we won't be able to pay the interest on our debt.

America's debt is owed to Americans.  If you decide to inflate it away, it will go away and America will still be a fine rich country. 

Or do you imagine millions of angry grannies will overthrow the state and demand their money back? 

America's debt is owed to a non-governmental agency called The Federal Reserve. They'll happily destroy the currency while they hold other assets.

The Americans? They'll be left with nothing.

Amusing.  And when they have achieved their evil goals, will they fly back to Manchuria?

[CleverMiner]

... but I don't start a thread about it to get attention.

Such an attention whore. Seriously, are you that desperate to be noticed and make a statement? Why don't you run for office then? I'm serious. Why are you the biggest non-active loser in the world who also happens to think he's got it all figured out? Do something with it for christ's sake. Prove it. Why are you wasting your time here on a forum preaching to people who think you're handicapped?
...

+1

Boss, Don't you know other places to publish your every thought ? Something like Twitter / FB ?

For the love of god,  Why are people even replying to this, ?

This has remotely nothing to do with bitcoin.

[the joint]

... but I don't start a thread about it to get attention.

Such an attention whore. Seriously, are you that desperate to be noticed and make a statement? Why don't you run for office then? I'm serious. Why are you the biggest non-active loser in the world who also happens to think he's got it all figured out? Do something with it for christ's sake. Prove it. Why are you wasting your time here on a forum preaching to people who think you're handicapped?
...

+1

Boss, Don't you know other places to publish your every thought ? Something like Twitter / FB ?

For the love of god,  Why are people even replying to this, ?

This has remotely nothing to do with bitcoin.

It's in Politics & Society.  Very on-topic for the subforum.

[Jon]

This is directed to "Boss" and Matthew:

I understand both of your points quite well, but ultimately, I think "Boss" has a greater point, and even though I don't believe he stated it as such, here's how I look at it:

Simply put, nationalism is a step away from racism.  While the point about showing respect and not causing a scene simply to cause a scene is spot on, I think Matthew's analogy to a Chinese man bowing and the "Boss" failing to reciprocate the bow is inaccurate.  This is an example of one man showing respect to another man directly.  Standing for the Pledge is quite different.

Virtually every war in the history of mankind, and definitely all forms of oppression, are created out of a self-vs.-other paradigm.  Nationalism only reinforces that self-vs.-other paradigm and in my opinion, it's fucking stupid.

Now, I understand that it takes a very idyllic mindset (and a stubborn one) to cause the scene that the "Boss" did.  I'm guilty of this myself and I've done it on a number of occasions, albeit with declining frequency as I grow older.  But, the thing is we need people like "Boss" making these kinds of statements.  Experience will tame his stubbornness over time.  I'm still learning that while there are things about America I loathe, I also still really like myself.  Because I am a product of American society, I must be grateful to it -- ALL of it -- at the same time that I want to change it.

Very well stated. +1

[Phinnaeus Gage]

A country is such a spook of an idea especially when an entity or culture can only genuinely represent so many people, let alone 350 million in the United States. Why stand for something so intangible? Why pay any regard to it? Why should I pledge allegiance to anything purportedly above myself?

I refused to stand for the national anthem at a hockey game today and I got nasty looks but isn't that what the United States is supposed to stand for; individual liberty?

When Jehovah Witnesses go to any event where it's customary to stand and place the right right hand over the heart, they do stand, but do not place their hand over their heart or recite the pledge or sign the anthem. Some may take that time to offer a silent prayer to Jehovah, but that is all.

[Fizzgig]

Hawker will you even entertain the thought that subjugating children in third world countries is not worth the benefits we currently enjoy? I would argue we are worse off because violence is not the solution to socioeconomic problems.

Your reply will be so ridiculous I won't bother to stay up and read it, just stop spitting out propaganda and read a book. I have resigned to the fact that you must be a troll... or you just enjoy arguing for arguments sake.

[RodeoX]

I stand for the pledge. But if there were a rule saying I had to, I would sit with my back to the flag. This is what being an American is all about.