Population Control and Globalism

[Jon]

Isn't it possible that international issues such as global climate change and terrorism are tools used to unite and control all people in the world against their individual wills and cultures?

Maybe it's true that theories of overpopulation and the promotion of population reduction across the world are made with the intention of making humans as a whole more controllable?

Could it be that the people in higher places don't really care about what you, me and our families want for ourselves?

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[Hawker]

3 questions to which the answer is "no" in a row.

I grew up in Ireland and believe me, terrorism is real.  Not is it real; it works.  The present deputy leader of Northern Ireland was once leader of a movement with less than 2% support that bombed its way to the negotiating table.  The first leaders of Israel were all ex-terrorists. 

I don't know anyone promoting population reduction more effectively than female education.

Where I live, the people in "higher places" are there because we voted for the system.  If you happen to live in a dictatorship, my commiserations.

[Jon]

3 questions to which the answer is "no" in a row.

Nice going.

Could it be that the people in higher places don't really care about what you, me and our families want for ourselves?

Are you sure? Do you really trust authority that much?

[Hawker]

Of course I don't trust people in authority.  But I don't trust people without authority either.  However, I do trust that the system works and that I get social services I need.  I pay way more than I get out but my ability to generate cash comes from living is a safe secure modern country with superb infrastructure and access to inexpensive labour.

[Bimmerhead]

1. and 2. Possibly, but when faced with a choice between incompetence and conspiracy I tend to think meddlesome politicians are more incompetent than part of a grand conspiracy.  Most of these guys couldn't conspire their way out of a paper bag.

3. For sure.  They feel they know better than you and your family, that is why they keep regulating your lives.

[Vandroiy]

On the first paragraph, it's true but not about uniting people, no on the second, it's false, and lol yes on third, it's obviously true on average.

The whole terrorism and climate change politics are built on sand. They don't achieve much, use illogical constructs, and focus on feeding fear that does not ease. Humans burn all the material they can burn anyway, the control laws are achieving nothing, yet they pay a lot of people. The goal is to take the attention of voters, or to get funds for projects, but not about control or unity of the voters in question.

The uncontrolled population explosion, however, is not just some fad term. It may be the biggest threat to civilized society itself. Allow endless reproduction and try to feed everyone afterward, and the only possible outcomes are starvation or war. Currently, we have both.

People in "high places" on average act the same way most people do: they optimize life for themselves. Give a politician a choice: be re-elected or do the right thing. Of course he will choose being re-elected! What the heck are people expecting, the voters systematically wipe out other behavior way before someone reaches "high places".



The trick to finding the correct answers is simulating how the people deciding think, what their immediate goals are, and what kind of an image the behavior gives when extrapolated over large scales of systems and passing time.

[Jon]

3 questions to which the answer is "no" in a row.

I grew up in Ireland and believe me, terrorism is real.  Not is it real; it works.  The present deputy leader of Northern Ireland was once leader of a movement with less than 2% support that bombed its way to the negotiating table.  The first leaders of Israel were all ex-terrorists. 

I don't know anyone promoting population reduction more effectively than female education.

Where I live, the people in "higher places" are there because we voted for the system.  If you happen to live in a dictatorship, my commiserations.

Could it be that those "terrorists" are only people looking for sovereignty against centralized regimes?

I never permitted any of the powers above me, especially on an international level. I never voted for any of them. My forefathers did but they didn't have any explicit permission to represent me regardless.

[bitdragon]

they do care. To the point of promoting fear to make us feel weak. Fear is all they have, and that is not much at all.
However, they cannot and never will do it against our collective will. That is just impossible, we can only do it to ourselves.
It's just a ride anyway and in the end we have nothing to fear.

We should learn from our past though. I read recently a rather poignant article about the USS Liberty. http://is.gd/ussliberty

A project called halfpasthuman.com studies collective linguistics suggests March is setup for another similar coup against Iran.

[Jon]

The uncontrolled population explosion, however, is not just some fad term. It may be the biggest threat to civilized society itself. Allow endless reproduction and try to feed everyone afterward, and the only possible outcomes are starvation or war. Currently, we have both.

We cannot sustain our population by having the UN and other international powers funneling senseless aid to Africa and other starving countries then expecting a sustainable result. They have created cultures of dependency that can no longer create producing economies. So, of course their idea of a solution is reducing the populations so they can make the expenses go down.

Have you considered that the problem is our methods of feeding people and not that there is a lack of resources? The problem is efficiency and endless aid does not make sustainable systems.

[Hawker]

3 questions to which the answer is "no" in a row.

I grew up in Ireland and believe me, terrorism is real.  Not is it real; it works.  The present deputy leader of Northern Ireland was once leader of a movement with less than 2% support that bombed its way to the negotiating table.  The first leaders of Israel were all ex-terrorists.  

I don't know anyone promoting population reduction more effectively than female education.

Where I live, the people in "higher places" are there because we voted for the system.  If you happen to live in a dictatorship, my commiserations.

Could it be that those "terrorists" are only people looking for sovereignty against centralized regimes?

I never permitted any of the powers above me, especially on an international level. I never voted for any of them. My forefathers did but they didn't have any explicit permission to represent me regardless.

Well you didn't vote for your skin colour either.  There are worse inheritances than being born into a rich Western democracy.

I'll ignore your terrorism thing - your heart is in the right place but you have never met a true killer.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shankill_Butchers  Try to imagine reasoning with them as they pull your teeth out with pliers.

[the joint]

There's a contrasting idea that suggests the "elite" (for lack of a better term, and it's short and to the point) don't become the elite by trampling over the "peons" or trying to control them.  Rather, they have a unique mindset that distinguishes them from the people lower down on the SES ladder.

I saw a documentary where it was suggested that while the vast majority live according to beliefs such as "what you put in is what you get out of it,"  "money only comes from hard work,"  "I need to continuously plan for my future needs,"  etc.,   the elite think in terms of "money comes easily,"  "I have an abundance of all that I need," and "what matters is how I think and act right here, right now."

As a result, a self-fulfilling prophecy is created and those on the lower rungs are constantly coming up with conspiracy theories of how the elite are continuously trying to control/manipulate them.  They also find that money does only come from hard work, that they always need to be concerned about future stability, and salaried wages are fair because you get paid for exactly what you put in.  In reality, it could simply be a mindset.

I've noticed truth to this in people with depression.  Those with depression continually think about what they DON'T have, and they think about their lack of what they want and need.  As a result, they continue to not have the things they want and need.  

Additionally, many depressed people seem to think it is more important to be "good" or "perfect" than it is to be happy.  When you ask them to identify the "good" people they know, they are likely to identify people who also have depression/anxiety and who hold similar values and beliefs (e.g. that money only comes through hard work, etc.).  When you ask them to identify the "bad" people, they end up identifying people who are, for the most part, mentally OK, psychologically happy, and seem to have a lot of things going for them in the material world.  Another obvious example of this is employees who say they hate their bosses -- or look at the way people like those in the Occupy Wallstreet movement hate banks and CEOs.  They are fighting the "good fight," but nobody with any real prosperity is on their side.

Maybe a simple attitude change can make the whole world shiny and bright again.

[bitdragon]

well said the joint.
We need to get our head straight and look in the mirror for the one responsible for eveything we have in our life.

[Hawker]

the joint - since there is so little social mobility, perhaps the reason rich people say making money is easy is that it IS easy for them.  They are born into networks where money is widely available.  Generally, the son of a banker will make much more than the son of a carpenter and its simplistic to say its all down to attitude.

[Jon]

I saw a documentary where it was suggested that while the vast majority live according to beliefs such as "what you put in is what you get out of it,"  "money only comes from hard work,"  "I need to continuously plan for my future needs,"  etc.,   the elite think in terms of "money comes easily,"  "I have an abundance of all that I need," and "what matters is how I think and act right here, right now."

So, according to you, I could be an elite? Heh, interesting.

As a result, a self-fulfilling prophecy is created and those on the lower rungs are constantly coming up with conspiracy theories of how the elite are continuously trying to control/manipulate them.  They also find that money only does come from hard work, that they always need to be concerned about future stability, and salaried wages are fair because you get paid for exactly what you put in.  In reality, it could simply be a mindset.

Money does not only come from hard work. It comes from meeting desires of people with money.

I've noticed truth to this in people with depression.  Those with depression continually think about what they DON'T have, and they think about their lack of what they want and need.  As a result, they continue to not have the things they want and need.

As a person with debilitating depression, in my worst moments, I am concerned about bringing value to my loved ones and the world as a whole. My desires are usually people-oriented.

Additionally, many depressed people seem to think it is more important to be "good" or "perfect" than it is to be happy.  When you ask them to identify the "good" people they know, they are likely to identify people who also have depression/anxiety and who hold similar values and beliefs (e.g. that money only comes through hard work, etc.).  When you ask them to identify the "bad" people, they end up identifying people who are, for the most part, mentally OK, psychologically happy, and seem to have a lot of things going for them in the material world.  Another obvious example of this is employees who say they hate their bosses -- or look at the way people like those in the Occupy Wallstreet movement hate banks and CEOs.  They are fighting the "good fight," but nobody with any real prosperity is on their side.

Maybe a simple attitude change can make the whole world shiny and bright again.

I don't get along with authority figures in my life because I notice their lack of self-esteem and happiness, haha. They are usually not doing okay and they are poor leaders as a result.

[Jon]

the joint - since there is so little social mobility, perhaps the reason rich people say making money is easy is that it IS easy for them.  They are born into networks where money is widely available.  Generally, the son of a banker will make much more than the son of a carpenter and its simplistic to say its all down to attitude.

For normal rich people, who are either skilled surgeons, lawyers and such are usually in social mobility simply because they bring something very valuable to people that truly desire it. It might be easy for them because what they have of value just happens to be easy to provide for them.

Bankers are a different story...

[FirstAscent]

Isn't it possible that international issues such as global climate change and terrorism are tools used to unite and control all people in the world against their individual wills and cultures?

A definitive no regarding climate change. It doesn't even make sense.

A moderate yes regarding terrorism, but that doesn't mean terrorism isn't real.

Maybe it's true that theories of overpopulation and the promotion of population reduction across the world are made with the intention of making humans as a whole more controllable?

Again, a definitive no. In fact, quite the opposite.

Could it be that the people in higher places don't really care about what you, me and our families want for ourselves?

For the most part, true.

[bitdragon]

stay calm, stay peaceful, stay serene, in the face of these dire predictions of planet wide calamity and you will have the best outcome possible.
We create our future through deciding our present.

What you desire, be it now.

[Hawker]

the joint - since there is so little social mobility, perhaps the reason rich people say making money is easy is that it IS easy for them.  They are born into networks where money is widely available.  Generally, the son of a banker will make much more than the son of a carpenter and its simplistic to say its all down to attitude.

For normal rich people, who are either skilled surgeons, lawyers and such are usually in social mobility simply because they bring something very valuable to people that truly desire it. It might be easy for them because what they have of value just happens to be easy to provide for them.

Bankers are a different story...

Rich doctors are generally that way as a result of marrying rich people or inheriting it.  I think you and I have very different ideas about what "rich" means.

[Jon]

the joint - since there is so little social mobility, perhaps the reason rich people say making money is easy is that it IS easy for them.  They are born into networks where money is widely available.  Generally, the son of a banker will make much more than the son of a carpenter and its simplistic to say its all down to attitude.

For normal rich people, who are either skilled surgeons, lawyers and such are usually in social mobility simply because they bring something very valuable to people that truly desire it. It might be easy for them because what they have of value just happens to be easy to provide for them.

Bankers are a different story...

Rich doctors are generally that way as a result of marrying rich people or inheriting it.  I think you and I have very different ideas about what "rich" means.

I live next to several doctors. The ones I talk to daily are where they are because they simply have common sense: they save and live within their means. They don't waste their funds on consumerist crap like today's "middle-class" does. You'll notice it's the middle-to-poor people that buy all the luxury-branded crap.

We both have different ideas because I don't believe in the idea of "rich" and "poor". I just see people with different choices and lifestyles.

[Hawker]

the joint - since there is so little social mobility, perhaps the reason rich people say making money is easy is that it IS easy for them.  They are born into networks where money is widely available.  Generally, the son of a banker will make much more than the son of a carpenter and its simplistic to say its all down to attitude.

For normal rich people, who are either skilled surgeons, lawyers and such are usually in social mobility simply because they bring something very valuable to people that truly desire it. It might be easy for them because what they have of value just happens to be easy to provide for them.

Bankers are a different story...

Rich doctors are generally that way as a result of marrying rich people or inheriting it.  I think you and I have very different ideas about what "rich" means.

I live next to several doctors. The ones I talk to daily are where they are because they simply have common sense: they save and live within their means. They don't waste their funds on consumerist crap like today's "middle-class" does. You'll notice it's the middle-to-poor people that buy all the luxury-branded crap.

We both have different ideas because I don't believe in the idea of "rich" and "poor". I just see people with different choices and lifestyles.

Poverty is not a choice or a lifestyle for the majority of poor people.  Some people do drink or drugs and they might be considered to have made a lifestyle choice.  But some are born disabled or suffer expensive debilitating illnesses or a raft of other bad luck things that do make you poor but do not mean you chose it.

[Kettenmonster]

... The first leaders of Israel were all ex-terrorists.  ...

Weird if I would dare to try such  ... huhm ... assertion, "the people in higher places" could drag me to court and get me finally convicted.
 ... so let me put it like that: Do you blame Winston Churchill for getting them busy elsewhere?
The Afghan economy is prospering on opium plantation, well protected by Nato freedom fighters. Go there to proove me wrong. You will fail, provided you know how poppy looks like.

So now explain to me what terrorism is.

[the joint]

All I know is that according to my experience, shifting my attitude has brought success without even really trying.  I'm a lot like you, "boss," in the sense that I spent the vast majority of high school and my undergrad college years despising authority, loathing the hoops I was seemingly forced to jump through by spending 18+ years in an educational bureaucracy so I could actually get my foot in the door somewhere, watching the news and media with increasing distaste for what I thought was the obvious downfall of societal values and thinking that everyone was ignorant to the things that would make the world a better place.  Rap music?  Fuck rappers, fuck the Kardashians, fuck Jersey Shore, fuck Enron, fuck Bush, and fuck you if you don't see that I'm a critical thinker and that my passion for answering life's most important questions makes me more wise, sophisticated, and just than you will ever be.  Take off the goggles dude, you're all fucking blind.

But, when I started to shift my attitude to see the good in all I had considered bad, to see the just in the unjust, to take sole and utter responsibility for my well-being, and, most importantly, to recognize the ultimate and pervasive freedom of my own mind by understanding the power of interpretation, amazing things started to happen.  I define reality, and through defining it I literally construct it.  I can be the richest man or the poorest man, but the choice is mine and mine alone to decide which I will be.  

There is no "out there" independent of what's "in here."  Projection is not only a defense mechanism, it's a truism, and I realized that the only reason I saw authority as trying to manipulate and control everything is because it was the same approach I was taking.  I was trying to control and manipulate by preaching my ideals to anyone I could find, especially late at night when I was left alone to my thoughts and they were bursting to get out.  How could they not agree with me?  How could they not see my ideas are special?  How could they not understand that the depth of my thoughts was an obvious correlation to my unwavering desire to make the world a better place?

As it turns out, I had simply invested too much of myself -- my emotions, my ego, my values, etc. -- in these ideas, and by preaching them I was simply being selfish.  I wanted to change the world in a way that my ego wanted, and I wanted to make the world just according to what my ego considered just.  I was the person I was criticizing.  I was a CEO, Bush, Enron, a rap star, a Kardashian, and a Jersey Shore nut all wrapped into one, and I didn't like myself then.  It took me a long time to figure out why.  In fact, I'm still figuring it out.  I advise you to do the same.

[Hawker]

... The first leaders of Israel were all ex-terrorists.  ...

Weird if I would dare to try such  ... huhm ... assertion, "the people in higher places" could drag me to court and get me finally convicted.
 ... so let me put it like that: Do you blame Winston Churchill for getting them busy elsewhere?
The Afghan economy is prospering on opium plantation, well protected by Nato freedom fighters. Go there to proove me wrong. You will fail, provided you know how poppy looks like.

So now explain to me what terrorism is.

Fair point about the Isrealis.  Allow me to point out that for the first 50 years of its existence, my country Ireland's leaders were all men who had blood on their hands and who had served time for what we now call terrorism.  Half of the present cabinet in Northern Ireland are in the same position. I said the Israelis were "ex-terrorists" and our Irish leaders can likewise be called ex-terrorists.

Note that I don't say any of them ever expressed regret.  Once they win, they stop being terrorist and are freedom fighters.

So what is terrorism?  There doesn't seem to be an agreed definition but I would use "Terrorism is political violence by a non-state entity."

[Kettenmonster]

... "Terrorism is political violence by a non-state entity."

I suggest (just to proove myself wrong): Terrorism is politically motivated violence against a state entity to achieve a change.
... fits damned well to Syria, Tunesia, Egypt, ...
If the term terrorism is meant to make sense you first have to aggree on a basic assumption called: human rights
Neither population control nor globalism aggrees on that.  So terrorism is a meaningless term in a logic of population control or globalism.
If this term is meaningless you can proove nothing with it. Now if somebody is trying to support one of population control or globalism by arguing with terrorism he is selfcontradicting his approach.

[Hawker]

... "Terrorism is political violence by a non-state entity."

I suggest (just to proove myself wrong): Terrorism is politically motivated violence against a state entity to achieve a change.
... fits damned well to Syria, Tunesia, Egypt, ...
If the term terrorism is meant to make sense you first have to aggree on a basic assumption called: human rights
Neither population control nor globalism aggrees on that.  So terrorism is a meaningless term in a logic of population control or globalism.
If this term is meaningless you can proove nothing with it. Now if somebody is trying to support one of population control or globalism by arguing with terrorism he is selfcontradicting his approach.

I disagree.  The Shankill Butchers never targeted once a state entity yet they were an almost textbook example of terrorism. 

[Kettenmonster]

 ... pardon?
I didn´t get to what you disagree, to the indirect proof or to its assumption?

[Kettenmonster]

btw the history of terrorism in ireland goes back at least to 7th century counted in christian years of which the guys in those days were only partially aware of.

[Hawker]

... pardon?
I didn´t get to what you disagree, to the indirect proof or to its assumption?

You define terrorism as being violence against a state entity.  But the example I showed, the Shankill Butchers, was part of a terrorist movement that proclaimed loyalty to the state and of course never acted against the state.

[Kettenmonster]

 ... just to proove me wrong.

[Hawker]

... just to proove me wrong.

lol no.  I told you I am Irish and that I grew up during the Troubles.  It would be strange if I didn't have some views on who is and is not a terrorist and on how terrorists morph into statesmen or into freedom fighters if they strike a good deal for themselves.

Right now, I would put money on the terrorists in Afghanistan forming the government of the country and being statesmen within 10 years.

[FirstAscent]

... just to proove me wrong.

"Prove" has one "o". Same goes for lose, just in case. Sorry - just a pet peeve. Ordinarily, I would've let it go, but you seem to be using the word often.

[interlagos]

All I know is that according to my experience, shifting my attitude has brought success without even really trying.  I'm a lot like you, "boss," in the sense that I spent the vast majority of high school and my undergrad college years despising authority, loathing the hoops I was seemingly forced to jump through by spending 18+ years in an educational bureaucracy so I could actually get my foot in the door somewhere, watching the news and media with increasing distaste for what I thought was the obvious downfall of societal values and thinking that everyone was ignorant to the things that would make the world a better place.  Rap music?  Fuck rappers, fuck the Kardashians, fuck Jersey Shore, fuck Enron, fuck Bush, and fuck you if you don't see that I'm a critical thinker and that my passion for answering life's most important questions makes me more wise, sophisticated, and just than you will ever be.  Take off the goggles dude, you're all fucking blind.

But, when I started to shift my attitude to see the good in all I had considered bad, to see the just in the unjust, to take sole and utter responsibility for my well-being, and, most importantly, to recognize the ultimate and pervasive freedom of my own mind by understanding the power of interpretation, amazing things started to happen.  I define reality, and through defining it I literally construct it.  I can be the richest man or the poorest man, but the choice is mine and mine alone to decide which I will be.  

There is no "out there" independent of what's "in here."  Projection is not only a defense mechanism, it's a truism, and I realized that the only reason I saw authority as trying to manipulate and control everything is because it was the same approach I was taking.  I was trying to control and manipulate by preaching my ideals to anyone I could find, especially late at night when I was left alone to my thoughts and they were bursting to get out.  How could they not agree with me?  How could they not see my ideas are special?  How could they not understand that the depth of my thoughts was an obvious correlation to my unwavering desire to make the world a better place?

As it turns out, I had simply invested too much of myself -- my emotions, my ego, my values, etc. -- in these ideas, and by preaching them I was simply being selfish.  I wanted to change the world in a way that my ego wanted, and I wanted to make the world just according to what my ego considered just.  I was the person I was criticizing.  I was a CEO, Bush, Enron, a rap star, a Kardashian, and a Jersey Shore nut all wrapped into one, and I didn't like myself then.  It took me a long time to figure out why.  In fact, I'm still figuring it out.  I advise you to do the same.

The words of true wisdom!
I back this up, it really works.

[Karmicads]

Isn't it possible that international issues such as global climate change and terrorism are tools used to unite and control all people in the world against their individual wills and cultures?

Maybe it's true that theories of overpopulation and the promotion of population reduction across the world are made with the intention of making humans as a whole more controllable?

Could it be that the people in higher places don't really care about what you, me and our families want for ourselves?

I´m a great advocate of curiosity, asking questions and seeking evidences when curiosity strikes, but I have to wonder if these sort of questions are asked in that curious spirit or if they are rhetorical and pointed. I´m not making an accusation here Boss (even though it is sort of rhetorical).  It´s a common habit of thinking, to ask questions with a desired answer in mind. They are commonly prefaced by: ¨What if...¨, followed by [my particular (preferred) conclusion]. the ¨What if...¨ type question, is a prime candidate for making a statement in the form of a question and leaving others to contend with falsifications. When I read this sort of question  I hear myself asking: Is this humble curiosity, ambivalence or conviction? 

We need to learn how to get past armchair speculation and hoping others will figure everything out for us. Conspiracy theories are built up, by tying numerous whimsical speculations together with popular cultural dogma and gluing them with a little bit of circumstantial evidence (like establishing a motive). Itś all about what you can get away with claiming, rather what there is good evidence for. Extraordinary claims call for extraordinary evidence. I have a different question: What evidence do we have for these things? Perhaps we could ask that, of these questions you have raised Boss. Better yet; What evidence do we wish to consider, and what is the most parsimonious way to explain it? Not being factious you know, but if this eradication policy were half true, then there´s some serious shit about to hit the fan, which we will all have to deal with.  The best approach IMHO is a rational one. That entails starting from what we know (within reason) and preceding to investigate what we don´t know (with reason). Just my 0.002 BTC worth.

[Kettenmonster]

"Prove" has one "o".

thanks, you are right, it´s proof that goes with two o.

[Yorkshire]

Population control and globalism are two different words but inseparable.  Obviously, globalization has both positive and negative effects on the world population control. Generally, migration of people from one country to another have seen wide spread of different kinds of sicknesses such as HIV/AIDS, SARS, EBOLA, etc. and also the spread of family planning, public health and medical technology. Through the global spread of modern health and family planning technology there are noticeable improvements in the area of life expectancy and reduction of fertility. However, support from international donors has aid in reducing the gap between life expectancy and fertility reduction.

[KingScorpio]

Isn't it possible that international issues such as global climate change and terrorism are tools used to unite and control all people in the world against their individual wills and cultures?

Maybe it's true that theories of overpopulation and the promotion of population reduction across the world are made with the intention of making humans as a whole more controllable?

Could it be that the people in higher places don't really care about what you, me and our families want for ourselves?

the main controllers are indeed the national banking cartels globally, if controll comes from somewhere its from them,

they controll, surpress, center the economy on themselves, cause economic insecurity, limit creativity.

population growth has a lot of advantages if there is a sufficiently good enterpreneuership to harness benefits from it.

regards

[SkyFlakes]

Isn't it possible that international issues such as global climate change and terrorism are tools used to unite and control all people in the world against their individual wills and cultures?

Maybe it's true that theories of overpopulation and the promotion of population reduction across the world are made with the intention of making humans as a whole more controllable?

Could it be that the people in higher places don't really care about what you, me and our families want for ourselves?

I think it would be possible that through global issues that we are facing, we can be united as one to fight it. But the hard thing to do is to let people do it, we should admit that people around the world lack of initiative to do it.
I think it just looked like that they are into controlling people but I think they only just want to control population to control other problems related to it.