Population Control and Globalism

[Jon]

Isn't it possible that international issues such as global climate change and terrorism are tools used to unite and control all people in the world against their individual wills and cultures?

Maybe it's true that theories of overpopulation and the promotion of population reduction across the world are made with the intention of making humans as a whole more controllable?

Could it be that the people in higher places don't really care about what you, me and our families want for ourselves?

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[Hawker]

3 questions to which the answer is "no" in a row.

I grew up in Ireland and believe me, terrorism is real.  Not is it real; it works.  The present deputy leader of Northern Ireland was once leader of a movement with less than 2% support that bombed its way to the negotiating table.  The first leaders of Israel were all ex-terrorists. 

I don't know anyone promoting population reduction more effectively than female education.

Where I live, the people in "higher places" are there because we voted for the system.  If you happen to live in a dictatorship, my commiserations.

[Jon]

3 questions to which the answer is "no" in a row.

Nice going.

Could it be that the people in higher places don't really care about what you, me and our families want for ourselves?

Are you sure? Do you really trust authority that much?

[Hawker]

Of course I don't trust people in authority.  But I don't trust people without authority either.  However, I do trust that the system works and that I get social services I need.  I pay way more than I get out but my ability to generate cash comes from living is a safe secure modern country with superb infrastructure and access to inexpensive labour.

[Bimmerhead]

1. and 2. Possibly, but when faced with a choice between incompetence and conspiracy I tend to think meddlesome politicians are more incompetent than part of a grand conspiracy.  Most of these guys couldn't conspire their way out of a paper bag.

3. For sure.  They feel they know better than you and your family, that is why they keep regulating your lives.

[Vandroiy]

On the first paragraph, it's true but not about uniting people, no on the second, it's false, and lol yes on third, it's obviously true on average.

The whole terrorism and climate change politics are built on sand. They don't achieve much, use illogical constructs, and focus on feeding fear that does not ease. Humans burn all the material they can burn anyway, the control laws are achieving nothing, yet they pay a lot of people. The goal is to take the attention of voters, or to get funds for projects, but not about control or unity of the voters in question.

The uncontrolled population explosion, however, is not just some fad term. It may be the biggest threat to civilized society itself. Allow endless reproduction and try to feed everyone afterward, and the only possible outcomes are starvation or war. Currently, we have both.

People in "high places" on average act the same way most people do: they optimize life for themselves. Give a politician a choice: be re-elected or do the right thing. Of course he will choose being re-elected! What the heck are people expecting, the voters systematically wipe out other behavior way before someone reaches "high places".



The trick to finding the correct answers is simulating how the people deciding think, what their immediate goals are, and what kind of an image the behavior gives when extrapolated over large scales of systems and passing time.

[Jon]

3 questions to which the answer is "no" in a row.

I grew up in Ireland and believe me, terrorism is real.  Not is it real; it works.  The present deputy leader of Northern Ireland was once leader of a movement with less than 2% support that bombed its way to the negotiating table.  The first leaders of Israel were all ex-terrorists. 

I don't know anyone promoting population reduction more effectively than female education.

Where I live, the people in "higher places" are there because we voted for the system.  If you happen to live in a dictatorship, my commiserations.

Could it be that those "terrorists" are only people looking for sovereignty against centralized regimes?

I never permitted any of the powers above me, especially on an international level. I never voted for any of them. My forefathers did but they didn't have any explicit permission to represent me regardless.

[bitdragon]

they do care. To the point of promoting fear to make us feel weak. Fear is all they have, and that is not much at all.
However, they cannot and never will do it against our collective will. That is just impossible, we can only do it to ourselves.
It's just a ride anyway and in the end we have nothing to fear.

We should learn from our past though. I read recently a rather poignant article about the USS Liberty. http://is.gd/ussliberty

A project called halfpasthuman.com studies collective linguistics suggests March is setup for another similar coup against Iran.

[Jon]

The uncontrolled population explosion, however, is not just some fad term. It may be the biggest threat to civilized society itself. Allow endless reproduction and try to feed everyone afterward, and the only possible outcomes are starvation or war. Currently, we have both.

We cannot sustain our population by having the UN and other international powers funneling senseless aid to Africa and other starving countries then expecting a sustainable result. They have created cultures of dependency that can no longer create producing economies. So, of course their idea of a solution is reducing the populations so they can make the expenses go down.

Have you considered that the problem is our methods of feeding people and not that there is a lack of resources? The problem is efficiency and endless aid does not make sustainable systems.

[Hawker]

3 questions to which the answer is "no" in a row.

I grew up in Ireland and believe me, terrorism is real.  Not is it real; it works.  The present deputy leader of Northern Ireland was once leader of a movement with less than 2% support that bombed its way to the negotiating table.  The first leaders of Israel were all ex-terrorists.  

I don't know anyone promoting population reduction more effectively than female education.

Where I live, the people in "higher places" are there because we voted for the system.  If you happen to live in a dictatorship, my commiserations.

Could it be that those "terrorists" are only people looking for sovereignty against centralized regimes?

I never permitted any of the powers above me, especially on an international level. I never voted for any of them. My forefathers did but they didn't have any explicit permission to represent me regardless.

Well you didn't vote for your skin colour either.  There are worse inheritances than being born into a rich Western democracy.

I'll ignore your terrorism thing - your heart is in the right place but you have never met a true killer.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shankill_Butchers  Try to imagine reasoning with them as they pull your teeth out with pliers.

[the joint]

There's a contrasting idea that suggests the "elite" (for lack of a better term, and it's short and to the point) don't become the elite by trampling over the "peons" or trying to control them.  Rather, they have a unique mindset that distinguishes them from the people lower down on the SES ladder.

I saw a documentary where it was suggested that while the vast majority live according to beliefs such as "what you put in is what you get out of it,"  "money only comes from hard work,"  "I need to continuously plan for my future needs,"  etc.,   the elite think in terms of "money comes easily,"  "I have an abundance of all that I need," and "what matters is how I think and act right here, right now."

As a result, a self-fulfilling prophecy is created and those on the lower rungs are constantly coming up with conspiracy theories of how the elite are continuously trying to control/manipulate them.  They also find that money does only come from hard work, that they always need to be concerned about future stability, and salaried wages are fair because you get paid for exactly what you put in.  In reality, it could simply be a mindset.

I've noticed truth to this in people with depression.  Those with depression continually think about what they DON'T have, and they think about their lack of what they want and need.  As a result, they continue to not have the things they want and need.  

Additionally, many depressed people seem to think it is more important to be "good" or "perfect" than it is to be happy.  When you ask them to identify the "good" people they know, they are likely to identify people who also have depression/anxiety and who hold similar values and beliefs (e.g. that money only comes through hard work, etc.).  When you ask them to identify the "bad" people, they end up identifying people who are, for the most part, mentally OK, psychologically happy, and seem to have a lot of things going for them in the material world.  Another obvious example of this is employees who say they hate their bosses -- or look at the way people like those in the Occupy Wallstreet movement hate banks and CEOs.  They are fighting the "good fight," but nobody with any real prosperity is on their side.

Maybe a simple attitude change can make the whole world shiny and bright again.

[bitdragon]

well said the joint.
We need to get our head straight and look in the mirror for the one responsible for eveything we have in our life.

[Hawker]

the joint - since there is so little social mobility, perhaps the reason rich people say making money is easy is that it IS easy for them.  They are born into networks where money is widely available.  Generally, the son of a banker will make much more than the son of a carpenter and its simplistic to say its all down to attitude.

[Jon]

I saw a documentary where it was suggested that while the vast majority live according to beliefs such as "what you put in is what you get out of it,"  "money only comes from hard work,"  "I need to continuously plan for my future needs,"  etc.,   the elite think in terms of "money comes easily,"  "I have an abundance of all that I need," and "what matters is how I think and act right here, right now."

So, according to you, I could be an elite? Heh, interesting.

As a result, a self-fulfilling prophecy is created and those on the lower rungs are constantly coming up with conspiracy theories of how the elite are continuously trying to control/manipulate them.  They also find that money only does come from hard work, that they always need to be concerned about future stability, and salaried wages are fair because you get paid for exactly what you put in.  In reality, it could simply be a mindset.

Money does not only come from hard work. It comes from meeting desires of people with money.

I've noticed truth to this in people with depression.  Those with depression continually think about what they DON'T have, and they think about their lack of what they want and need.  As a result, they continue to not have the things they want and need.

As a person with debilitating depression, in my worst moments, I am concerned about bringing value to my loved ones and the world as a whole. My desires are usually people-oriented.

Additionally, many depressed people seem to think it is more important to be "good" or "perfect" than it is to be happy.  When you ask them to identify the "good" people they know, they are likely to identify people who also have depression/anxiety and who hold similar values and beliefs (e.g. that money only comes through hard work, etc.).  When you ask them to identify the "bad" people, they end up identifying people who are, for the most part, mentally OK, psychologically happy, and seem to have a lot of things going for them in the material world.  Another obvious example of this is employees who say they hate their bosses -- or look at the way people like those in the Occupy Wallstreet movement hate banks and CEOs.  They are fighting the "good fight," but nobody with any real prosperity is on their side.

Maybe a simple attitude change can make the whole world shiny and bright again.

I don't get along with authority figures in my life because I notice their lack of self-esteem and happiness, haha. They are usually not doing okay and they are poor leaders as a result.

[Jon]

the joint - since there is so little social mobility, perhaps the reason rich people say making money is easy is that it IS easy for them.  They are born into networks where money is widely available.  Generally, the son of a banker will make much more than the son of a carpenter and its simplistic to say its all down to attitude.

For normal rich people, who are either skilled surgeons, lawyers and such are usually in social mobility simply because they bring something very valuable to people that truly desire it. It might be easy for them because what they have of value just happens to be easy to provide for them.

Bankers are a different story...

[FirstAscent]

Isn't it possible that international issues such as global climate change and terrorism are tools used to unite and control all people in the world against their individual wills and cultures?

A definitive no regarding climate change. It doesn't even make sense.

A moderate yes regarding terrorism, but that doesn't mean terrorism isn't real.

Maybe it's true that theories of overpopulation and the promotion of population reduction across the world are made with the intention of making humans as a whole more controllable?

Again, a definitive no. In fact, quite the opposite.

Could it be that the people in higher places don't really care about what you, me and our families want for ourselves?

For the most part, true.

[bitdragon]

stay calm, stay peaceful, stay serene, in the face of these dire predictions of planet wide calamity and you will have the best outcome possible.
We create our future through deciding our present.

What you desire, be it now.

[Hawker]

the joint - since there is so little social mobility, perhaps the reason rich people say making money is easy is that it IS easy for them.  They are born into networks where money is widely available.  Generally, the son of a banker will make much more than the son of a carpenter and its simplistic to say its all down to attitude.

For normal rich people, who are either skilled surgeons, lawyers and such are usually in social mobility simply because they bring something very valuable to people that truly desire it. It might be easy for them because what they have of value just happens to be easy to provide for them.

Bankers are a different story...

Rich doctors are generally that way as a result of marrying rich people or inheriting it.  I think you and I have very different ideas about what "rich" means.

[Jon]

the joint - since there is so little social mobility, perhaps the reason rich people say making money is easy is that it IS easy for them.  They are born into networks where money is widely available.  Generally, the son of a banker will make much more than the son of a carpenter and its simplistic to say its all down to attitude.

For normal rich people, who are either skilled surgeons, lawyers and such are usually in social mobility simply because they bring something very valuable to people that truly desire it. It might be easy for them because what they have of value just happens to be easy to provide for them.

Bankers are a different story...

Rich doctors are generally that way as a result of marrying rich people or inheriting it.  I think you and I have very different ideas about what "rich" means.

I live next to several doctors. The ones I talk to daily are where they are because they simply have common sense: they save and live within their means. They don't waste their funds on consumerist crap like today's "middle-class" does. You'll notice it's the middle-to-poor people that buy all the luxury-branded crap.

We both have different ideas because I don't believe in the idea of "rich" and "poor". I just see people with different choices and lifestyles.

[Hawker]

the joint - since there is so little social mobility, perhaps the reason rich people say making money is easy is that it IS easy for them.  They are born into networks where money is widely available.  Generally, the son of a banker will make much more than the son of a carpenter and its simplistic to say its all down to attitude.

For normal rich people, who are either skilled surgeons, lawyers and such are usually in social mobility simply because they bring something very valuable to people that truly desire it. It might be easy for them because what they have of value just happens to be easy to provide for them.

Bankers are a different story...

Rich doctors are generally that way as a result of marrying rich people or inheriting it.  I think you and I have very different ideas about what "rich" means.

I live next to several doctors. The ones I talk to daily are where they are because they simply have common sense: they save and live within their means. They don't waste their funds on consumerist crap like today's "middle-class" does. You'll notice it's the middle-to-poor people that buy all the luxury-branded crap.

We both have different ideas because I don't believe in the idea of "rich" and "poor". I just see people with different choices and lifestyles.

Poverty is not a choice or a lifestyle for the majority of poor people.  Some people do drink or drugs and they might be considered to have made a lifestyle choice.  But some are born disabled or suffer expensive debilitating illnesses or a raft of other bad luck things that do make you poor but do not mean you chose it.