[ANN]Bitfrog–Truly Decentralized Autonomous Game Platform (with explainer video)

[tadpole_bitfrog]

What is Bitfrog?   
Bitfrog is a decentralized platform for game such as Poker where bitcoin is accepted. There is neither account registration nor altcoin exchange and the process is truly transparent.


For more information, please visit http://bitfrog.io/!

Our Vision:
F – Fair, A truly decentralized anonymous game platform with random shuffle
R - Rewarding, BFS holders can gain rich transaction fee in every block of transaction
O – Open, Open peer to peer protocol and platform for DAG and bitcoin transaction without registration
G – Game, Public game platform for independent DAG development to enrich bitfrog ecosystem

Our Features
   No account registration
   No game host
   Fair P2P random shuffle
   Open source
   Purely peer to peer
   No altcoin exchange
   Rich reward with transaction fee hunting

DAG projects
DAG gives you the opportunity to govern the game and be the host! There is no single host; instead, everyone helps to maintain the game rule. When other players are playing the game, you will be part of the team to verify game results and transactions. Only after your confirmation will the result and transaction become valid.

With open source governance and use of cryptography, the role of a Central Governing Authority is eliminated, registration procedure becomes unnecessary and transaction processing time is shortened. A much more secure and fair game platform is built for game lovers!

Donation plan
We are initiating a 200 days donation campaign starting from June 14, 2014 to December 31, 2014 to fund the DAG projects. Bitfrog Share (BFS) will be rewarded to donors which enable them to hunt transaction fees. (BFS is on Proof of Stake basis)
A total of 6 million BFS (60% of the total share) will be allocated to donors. Details are as follow.

Stage 1 (Ended)
BFS issued: 2.1M
Start date: June 14, 2014
End date: July 10, 2014, 2 days in prior to
BFS Client beta release on July 12, 2014


Stage 2
BFS issued: 1.7M
Start date: July 10, 2014
End date: November 3, 2014, 7 days in prior to
BFT Client beta release (Planned date: November 10, 2014)


Stage 3
BFS issued: 1.3M
Start date: November 3, 2014, 7 days in prior to
BFT Client beta release
End date: December 31, 2014

Stage 4
BFS issued: 0.9M
Start date: To be confirmed
End date: To be confirmed

Our donation address: 1frogRHNoxGXYuYUzWnMrdcDiQgGdmQm5
If you would like to support us, you must send all your support funds from a wallet which you control the Private Key, such as Bitcoin-Qt so that we can reward BFS to the public address of your donation private key. DO NOT send support directly from an exchange or online wallet.

Bounty scheme
We are now launching a bounty scheme to reward all ur supporters. Some bounties has been posted already:

- BFS bug identification
- BFS installation guide
- open source BFS blockchain explorer

Visit http://bitfrog.io/forums/forum/bitfrog-bounty/ if you are interested. We will post up new bounty scheme continuously. Stay tuned.

Join us to be part of the revolution!

[1715597106]

1715597106

[1715597106]

1715597106

[foodies123]

what a lovely project you have, too bad you chose to stick to bitcoin we would have loved to have you on board with us over at myriadcoin. if you're curious here's our website www.myriadplatform.org and thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=483515.0

[bitcoinstarter]

For a moment I thought you were bitfrog was Frog

https://bitcoinstarter.com/projects/98

[HostFat]

Good! I just hope that it is not a scam

[Jaxkr]

For a moment I thought you were bitfrog was Frog

https://bitcoinstarter.com/projects/98

We're unaffiliated.

[CoolBliss]

Video gives out bad information on bitcoin, and no information on how their system works. Go to BT thread, no information on how their system works... They say it is based on bitcoin and not an altcoin, yet are giving out shares of some alt do donors.

[tadpole_bitfrog]

FAQ
1. What is BFS
BFS (bitfrog share) is issued to give bitfroggers the right to hunt transaction fee on bitfrog. It is neither a currency nor alt-coins and it will not be used as currencies on bitfrog. It is a ticket for bitfroggers to capture transaction fee hunting opportunity of transactions process on our platform.
As bitfrog is developed according to Proof of Stake model, chances for hunting transaction fee is calculated based on the amount of shares owned by bitfrogger, which means more shares on hand, more transaction fee you can hunt.
We are currently running a 4 stages donation campaign for you to obtain BFS through donating bitcoin. The amount of the BFS will be prorated over donors based on the total donation and the issued shares within the same stage. Our donation address is 1frogRHNoxGXYuYUzWnMrdcDiQgGdmQm5. For more information regarding donation, please visit http://bitfrog.io/#donation.  

2. How to integrate with bitcoin?

Before jumping into explaining how bitcoin, bitcoin blockchain, bitfrog shares(BFS) and our DAG projects work together. We would like to introduce the concept of DAG (Decentralize autonomous game) first.
We are inspired by DAC. DAC (Distributed Autonomous Community) is an "entity" without any central point of control, however, DAC have an agreed agenda, business plan, and protocol.
Our DAG projects are trying to create a DAC that replaces the existing centralized game hosts and allow game players (end customers) to play games using bitcoins in a fair and secure environment.
How can you be part of our DAC? bitfrog share is the ticket for the general public to take part in our DAC. As bitfrog is developed according to Proof of Stake model, the chances for hunting transaction fee is calculated based on the amount of shares owned by bitfrogger, which means more shares on hand, more transaction fee you can hunt.
I think you can understand that BFS is not an alt-coin but a proof of community membership now. And the remaining question is how bitcoin or bitcoin subchain can work with our DAG? Although bitcoin is the first and most successful blockchain application, its characteristic does not fit perfectly in our DAG application e.g.bitforg Poker requires fast confirmation of transactions. To bridge the gap, we would like to introduce the notion of (for the moment we call it)"subchain". It is very similar to "sidechain" ina sense that it is a new blockchain backed by Bitcoin and is "pegged" to Bitcoin.
The new blockchain's characteristic and purpose are tailored for our DAG projects. It is not going to be a "general purpose" blockchain and it will fully integrate with BFS so that BFS holders can hunt transaction fee in the "subchain" and ultimately be rewarded in bitcoin through the "pegging" mechanism. One point to note is that our "subchain" does not require changes to the core Bitcoin protocol.
Before the official start of donation, 6 months were spent on conceptual design and investigation on feasibility. Our projects are at initial stage of bitcoin integration. Therefore,we might not be able to disclose technical information until the announcement of stage 3 donation to protect our donors at stage 1 and stage 2.

3. Is this a scam?
We are clear that we are not a scam, on the other hand, we understand that you would not be convinced completely until the release of bitfrog Poker DAG  in the end of stage 3 donation.  If you are conscious about the potential risk of scam, we recommend you to join the donation at stage 4, when you can see our codes of all layers of bitfrog DAG.

4. Why bitfrog donation is needed?
There are two main reasons. Firstly, donation is our way of bitfrog share decentralization. Moreover, donation would increase capital for the development team. Currently, we have sufficient fund to complete the project, but it might take more than one year before we release the first bitfrog DAG. With your investment, the project will be expedited as per our donation plan. Join our donation campaign if you would like to witness and share our success soon.

5. In stage 1 donation, will I get the same amount of BFS no matter which date I donate?
Yes, donors who donate within the stage 1 will get the share the amount of BFS proportional to their amount of donation. However, please note that the end date of stage one might not be exactly on July 21, 2014. Due to the progress of BFS client beta release, the end date might change accordingly. If you are interested in bitfrog projects, you are suggested to join the donation earlier to prevent missing the deadline.

6. What is bitfrogger?
bitfroggers is the alias which refer to bitfrogshare holders who run bitfrogshare application client for transaction fee hunting.

7.In current donation campaign, will I get the bitfrogshare of future integration with other altcoin?
Our current donation campaign only applies to bitcoin integration. With the use of the same technology, we are able to integrate with other altcoin. However, integration with other altcoin is not included in our current plan.

8. If I do not want to join donation at stage 1, is there other way to support bitfrog?
Other than donating bitcoin to us, you can also support us by:
1. Share your view - Every comment counts in making bitfrog a better platform, shape it the way you want!
2. Share this video to your friends on facebook or twitter - More followers means more successful decentralization.
Our facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bitfrogio/764314533590827
Our twitter : https://twitter.com/bitfrogio
3. Join our team -  We are now recruiting poker lovers with professional PR background to join the team. He/ She will be assisting us in public communication in different media and channels. If you are interested, please shoot us a pm. Personal details is not required but it would be nice if you can enclose your resume and share your thought about bitfrog in the message.
4. Follow us in facebook, twitter - Do not miss our latest information
Your support means a lot to us! Act now!

You can also read the latest FAQ on our forum! http://bitfrog.io/forums/topic/faq/

[tadpole_bitfrog]

Good! I just hope that it is not a scam

Thanks HostFat, we really understand your concern. We suggest you to join the donation at stage 4. For more information, please refer to FAQ 3.

[tadpole_bitfrog]

Video gives out bad information on bitcoin, and no information on how their system works. Go to BT thread, no information on how their system works... They say it is based on bitcoin and not an altcoin, yet are giving out shares of some alt do donors.

Thanks CoolBliss for your feedback. We value all your comment and continue to seek for room for improvement. Could you please specially point out how could we improve our promotion material? For your question of bitfrogshare, please refer to FAQ 2 for know more about the concept and technology we adopted.

[Bibop]

thanks. hope it can be platform for different games.
I think every gaming/gambling site using the same way but didnt treat that as a service for the gamer - so the service has to offer more game options

[marechoux]

This is an idea prettty interesting.

So if I get everything, there is some fees when you play a game and theses fees are shared among coin's owner, the more coin you have the more share of the fees you get.

For the donation part if I give coins whenever during the stage 1 I will get the same amount of coin right?
So I can wait until the last day of stage 1 to do a donation that won't change anything?

You say your platform will accept bitcoin first then other currencies, but you pay the donators on bitcoin only because you have only their bitcoin wallet adress. So you will convert all profits from other currencies in bitcoin?

Thanks and good luck for the project

[paythrough_team]

Bitfrog,without innovation, the equivalent of gambling games.

[CoinHoarder]

The problem of Mental Poker is fascinating to me. I am the guy over at 2p2 that recently bumped the old decentralized poker thread and got it going again. I'm glad that several projects have popped up since then, as I feel like this is a "killer app" for cryptos if done correctly. I'm not sure if some or none of these projects got started because of the attention I brought to the subject, but that was my intention and it happened nonetheless, so I am happy about that.

I am worried how fast the new projects have got started and are already collecting funds, because I feel like Mental Poker is possibly not sufficiently solved quite yet. Yes, you can play a game of Mental Poker, and you can prove the validity of the shuffle, deal, and actions. However, I have deep concerns about the efficiency of the Mental Poker Framework to provide a fluid real-time game of poker like people are used to on centralized sites.

I direct you to Sergio Lerner's patent to learn more about the MPF. He spent years researching, developing, and experimenting with Mental Poker and I consider him to be the utmost expert on the subject (or at least the most knowledgeable person on the subject that I know of). I will cite a simulation he did with different MPF protocols and the time it took to verify the results. Although he improved on efficiency of prior protocols, it still seems rather slow. You may see the patent here: https://www.google.com/patents/US20110202766?dq=sergio+lerner&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vv6gU9a4GdSuyASNxoDQBA&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAw

Code:

Comparison of Protocol Times
	MPF 	MPF 	MPF 					
	over 	over 	over 	MPF
	ECC 	ECC 	PH 	over PH
	base 	base 	base 	base
	VSM- 	VSM- 	VSM- 	VSM-
	VL 	VL 	VL 	VL
	using 	using 	using 	using
Operation 	CO-VP 	HMVP 	CO-VP 	HMVP 	KKOT90 	BS03 	Cre86 	CSD04b
Shuffle Time 	14.61 s  	27.31 s  	36.26 s  	57.97 s 	333.80 s 	273.39 s 	415.54 s 	102.29 s
All cards draw 	0.17 s 	0.17 s 	0.43 s 	 0.43 s 	 21.00 s 	 35.94 s 	 17.28 s 	 46.29 s
time (5 cards
for each
player)
All cards show 	0.12 s 	0.12 s 	0.39 s 	 0.39 s 	 0.78 s 	 46.30 s 	 0.08 s 	 46.30 s
time
(showdown) 	
Total 	14.90 s  	27.60 s  	37.08 s  	58.79 s 	355.58 s 	355.63 s 	432.89 s 	194.88 s
processing
time for first
game
Amortized 	1.60 s 	2.87 s 	4.06 s 	22.79 s 	319.58 s 	319.63 s 	396.89 s 	158.88 s
processing
time per game

Sorry that it jumbled up when I copy and pasted it.. refer to the link I provided.

As you can see the most efficient MPF protocol (that I can find) takes 14.64 seconds to shuffle and, more worrisome, it takes 27.6 seconds for a showdown. Obviously this slow of a speed would greatly hinder the game flow of a hand of poker. Consumers will not want to wait 30 seconds after each hand to find out who wins if it goes to showdown, or 14.64 seconds to shuffle.

Have you thought of this problem? If so, how do you plan to improve upon it so that the MPF could provide a playable game in real time, with a normal game flow that online poker players are used to?

Secondly, collusion is another big problem with decentralized poker networks. How do you plan to combat against it? Obviously playing heads up games, "fast fold" (Rush) poker, and multi table tournaments only would pretty much solve the problem of collusion. However, I feel that is only a half-assed solution and I would like to see something better than that come along where people can play full/6max ring games and single table tournaments. Providing heads up games and multi table tournaments only serves a portion of the games available on centralized poker networks and I'm afraid if this is not solved this will not be the "killer app" that I think it may be.

I feel it is important these questions be asked and answered before more funds are raised and you possibly realize that what you plan to do is not really practical competition to current centralized poker sites due to the complications. I am not trying to cause you harm, I support your project and am very interested. I want to see you succeed, and this is why I'm asking these questions.

Thanks for your time,

Ch

[tadpole_bitfrog]

This is an idea prettty interesting.

So if I get everything, there is some fees when you play a game and theses fees are shared among coin's owner, the more coin you have the more share of the fees you get.

For the donation part if I give coins whenever during the stage 1 I will get the same amount of coin right?
So I can wait until the last day of stage 1 to do a donation that won't change anything?

You say your platform will accept bitcoin first then other currencies, but you pay the donators on bitcoin only because you have only their bitcoin wallet adress. So you will convert all profits from other currencies in bitcoin?

Thanks and good luck for the project

Thanks marechoux for your question. In our understanding, what you mean by ‘coins owner’ should be ‘bitfrogshare(BFS) holder’, and it is true that more BFS you own the higher chance for you to acquire transaction fee. For question regarding donation, and bitfrog's projects for other altcoin, please kindly refer to FAQ #6 and FAQ#8 respectively.

[tadpole_bitfrog]

Bitfrog,without innovation, the equivalent of gambling games.

Thanks paythrough_team for raising your concern. As a matter of fact, we are not innovating new game or game rule, instead, more accurately; we are inspired by the invention of bitcoin and we aim at reforming the way gamers play online skill game. On our platform, gamers can reach other gamers around the world without the need of the single trusted third party (game host). You can find more information on our video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-RmgOFvNII.

[tadpole_bitfrog]

The problem of Mental Poker is fascinating to me. I am the guy over at 2p2 that recently bumped the old decentralized poker thread and got it going again. I'm glad that several projects have popped up since then, as I feel like this is a "killer app" for cryptos if done correctly. I'm not sure if some or none of these projects got started because of the attention I brought to the subject, but that was my intention and it happened nonetheless, so I am happy about that.

I am worried how fast the new projects have got started and are already collecting funds, because I feel like Mental Poker is possibly not sufficiently solved quite yet. Yes, you can play a game of Mental Poker, and you can prove the validity of the shuffle, deal, and actions. However, I have deep concerns about the efficiency of the Mental Poker Framework to provide a fluid real-time game of poker like people are used to on centralized sites.

I direct you to Sergio Lerner's patent to learn more about the MPF. He spent years researching, developing, and experimenting with Mental Poker and I consider him to be the utmost expert on the subject (or at least the most knowledgeable person on the subject that I know of). I will cite a simulation he did with different MPF protocols and the time it took to verify the results. Although he improved on efficiency of prior protocols, it still seems rather slow. You may see the patent here: https://www.google.com/patents/US20110202766?dq=sergio+lerner&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vv6gU9a4GdSuyASNxoDQBA&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAw

Code:

Comparison of Protocol Times
	MPF 	MPF 	MPF 					
	over 	over 	over 	MPF
	ECC 	ECC 	PH 	over PH
	base 	base 	base 	base
	VSM- 	VSM- 	VSM- 	VSM-
	VL 	VL 	VL 	VL
	using 	using 	using 	using
Operation 	CO-VP 	HMVP 	CO-VP 	HMVP 	KKOT90 	BS03 	Cre86 	CSD04b
Shuffle Time 	14.61 s  	27.31 s  	36.26 s  	57.97 s 	333.80 s 	273.39 s 	415.54 s 	102.29 s
All cards draw 	0.17 s 	0.17 s 	0.43 s 	 0.43 s 	 21.00 s 	 35.94 s 	 17.28 s 	 46.29 s
time (5 cards
for each
player)
All cards show 	0.12 s 	0.12 s 	0.39 s 	 0.39 s 	 0.78 s 	 46.30 s 	 0.08 s 	 46.30 s
time
(showdown) 	
Total 	14.90 s  	27.60 s  	37.08 s  	58.79 s 	355.58 s 	355.63 s 	432.89 s 	194.88 s
processing
time for first
game
Amortized 	1.60 s 	2.87 s 	4.06 s 	22.79 s 	319.58 s 	319.63 s 	396.89 s 	158.88 s
processing
time per game

Sorry that it jumbled up when I copy and pasted it.. refer to the link I provided.

As you can see the most efficient MPF protocol (that I can find) takes 14.64 seconds to shuffle and, more worrisome, it takes 27.6 seconds for a showdown. Obviously this slow of a speed would greatly hinder the game flow of a hand of poker. Consumers will not want to wait 30 seconds after each hand to find out who wins if it goes to showdown, or 14.64 seconds to shuffle.

Have you thought of this problem? If so, how do you plan to improve upon it so that the MPF could provide a playable game in real time, with a normal game flow that online poker players are used to?

Secondly, collusion is another big problem with decentralized poker networks. How do you plan to combat against it? Obviously playing heads up games, "fast fold" (Rush) poker, and multi table tournaments only would pretty much solve the problem of collusion. However, I feel that is only a half-assed solution and I would like to see something better than that come along where people can play full/6max ring games and single table tournaments. Providing heads up games and multi table tournaments only serves a portion of the games available on centralized poker networks and I'm afraid if this is not solved this will not be the "killer app" that I think it may be.

I feel it is important these questions be asked and answered before more funds are raised and you possibly realize that what you plan to do is not really practical competition to current centralized poker sites due to the complications. I am not trying to cause you harm, I support your project and am very interested. I want to see you succeed, and this is why I'm asking these questions.

Thanks for your time,

Ch

Hi CoinHoarder, thanks for raising your concerns and discussing the potential challenges of our project, which brings us a very good opportunity to explain our project details to the mass.  To our potential donors who treat bitfrog.io as an investment, we hereby state clearly that we never attempt to conceal the risk of this investment, there are many potential challenges that we might need to tackle in the future, such as technical problem, communication and mass perception.  
We would also like to clarify that our vision is to unite gamers with aligned vision to create a sound community to actualize our vision. We would like to invite all gamers and talents around the globe to join us and be part of the revolution. As a group of bitcoin enthusiasts, we believe that we should endeavor to contribute to bitcoin development. Instead of creating a new crypto-currency, our emphasis is put on the ultimate application; thus we introduce the DAG projects.  
In the current stage, we have been deciding when and how to approach Sergio, who affiliates with NimbleCoin.org , http://Certimix.com , http://Firmcoin.com , http://QixCoin.com , to take part in our project. We respect and appreciate his effort in facilitating the development of crypto-currency as well as his utmost expertise in mental poker. You may probably expedite our schedule to approach Sergio, even though we though a successful stage 1 donation may lead us more convincing to Sergio while he has already engaged with Qixcoin. Bitfrog has fundamental difference to Qixcoin, we want to exploit bitcoin and add value to bitcoin by adding a real decentralized application. So we are not going to create a new currency solely for game playing like Qixcoin.  A community built by Poker lovers is a prerequisite for success.
 Thank you for understanding our difficulties and revealing challenges we encountered, which ponit out the reason why we need support from the public to support us to take a further step. We envision a fair, rewarding and open game platform for game lovers. We hope to call for donation from the public to co-create such platform with agreed regulation.   Again, thank you for providing figures to us, however, there is a little difference between data we have and aslo the approach of our POC, we hope that you can have a conversation to see if you are interested in joining the development team. We believe that there is always room for improvement. At the same time there is a big room to improve player satisfaction through wise design of UI/UX and we will use timing of real Poker game as a reference. Please be aware that this falls out of our objective as we are not aggressive Poker House and trapping people in gambling is not our end goal.  
For problems regarding collusion, in the 1st release of bitfrogPOKER, we will provides options of private table and public table. For those players who want play privately with his friends can join the private table. There are some options of public table that increase of cost of collusion. However, all transactions will be transparent to the mass, we will leave the development of anti-collusion to the future bitfrog ecosystem like our affiliates and developers.  We are anticipated to our collaboration. Thanks again for you valuable time.  

[miffman]

This seems like a really great idea! I really hope this catches on. We are another step coser to decentralization!

Congrats devs 

[CoinHoarder]

Hi CoinHoarder, thanks for raising your concerns and discussing the potential challenges of our project, which brings us a very good opportunity to explain our project details to the mass.  To our potential donators who treat bitfrog.io as an investment, we hereby state clearly that we never attempt to conceal the risk of this investment, there are many potential challenges that we might need to tackle in the future, such as technical problem, communication and mass perception.  
We would also like to clarify that our vision is to unite gamers with aligned vision to create a sound community to actualize our vision. We would like to invite all gamers and talents around the globe to join us and be part of the revolution. As a group of bitcoin enthusiasts, we believe that we should endeavor to contribute to bitcoin development. Instead of creating a new crypto-currency, our emphasis is put on the ultimate application; thus we introduce the DAG projects.  
In the current stage, we have been deciding when and how to approach Sergio, who affiliates with NimbleCoin.org , http://Certimix.com , http://Firmcoin.com , http://QixCoin.com , to take part in our project. We respect and appreciate his effort in facilitating the development of crypto-currency as well as his utmost expertise in mental poker. You may probably expedite our schedule to approach Sergio, even though we though a successful stage 1 donation may lead us more convincing to Sergio while he has already engaged with Qixcoin. Bitfrog has fundamental difference to Qixcoin, we want to exploit bitcoin and add value to bitcoin by adding a real decentralized application. So we are not going to create a new currency solely for game playing like Qixcoin.  A community built by Poker lovers is a prerequisite for success.
 Thank you for understanding our difficulties and revealing challenges we encountered, which ponit out the reason why we need support from the public to support us to take a further step. We envision a fair, rewarding and open game platform for game lovers. We hope to call for donation from the public to co-create such platform with agreed regulation.   Again, thank you for providing figures to us, however, there is a little difference between data we have and aslo the approach of our POC, we hope that you can have a conversation to see if you are interested in joining the development team. We believe that there is always room for improvement. At the same time there is a big room to improve player satisfaction through wise design of UI/UX and we will use timing of real Poker game as a reference. Please be aware that this falls out of our objective as we are not aggressive Poker House and trapping people in gambling is not our end goal.  
For problems regarding collusion, in the 1st release of bitfrogPOKER, we will provides options of private table and public table. For those players who want play privately with his friends can join the private table. There are some options of public table that increase of cost of collusion. However, all transactions will be transparent to the mass, we will leave the development of anti-collusion to the future bitfrog ecosystem like our affiliates and developers.  We are anticipated to our collaboration. Thanks again for you valuable time.  

I'm not really interested in joining a team, my interest in this is purely academic and the want to liberate the game of poker from rake and politics. If for-profit decentralized poker networks are developed, I have a feeling rake-free versions will pop up sooner or later once its proven the idea is feasible. This is "ideal" poker and will put billions of dollars back into online poker players' pockets annually. Furthermore, online poker options in the US suck since Black Friday, so I (and many other Americans) have stopped playing. I see this as a possible solution to governments suddenly deciding they want their cut of the action, shutting sites down, and tying up funds for years. Furthermore, a lot of poker networks have scammed players by the use of superuser accounts, commingling player funds with operational funds, and straight up stealing or walking away with player funds. I see this as a solution to all of that and it will give a nice peace of mind to players that their money is safe. I am certain this is a "killer app" for cryptos if done correctly, as online poker is a multi-billion dollar industry. Even if a rake-free site is eventually made, this would mean Billions of dollars would be spent purchasing coins to play on the poker network. Either way it is a win-win.

I have had some correspondence with Sergio the past couple days and he assures me he has greatly increased efficiency of his protocol since the patent was filed. I'm not sure if he will shed any more light on it however, as I see you and Qixcoin as being competitors, but at least we know it is possible. This led me to try and find out ways to improve efficiency of the protocol. I came across a research paper updated March 2014 that claims to have created an efficient MPF, however I am having trouble locating a free copy. Perhaps that could help lead you in the right direction. http://dblp.kbs.uni-hannover.de/dblp/Search.action;jsessionid=D1E3B58C6D09EBEE05D64324002C3EFA?search=&q=Mental+poker (it is the latest entry, in 2014).

Your method of combating collusion is not very well thought out IMO. Having private tables and public tables does not solve collusion. You should start with the obvious methods of using fast fold (rush) poker (the larger the player pool the less collusion is possible), heads up games (collusion is 100% not possible due to their only being 2 players), and multi table tournaments (the more tables, the less collusion possible). I believe this is what your competitors are planning on doing. Solving collusion for 3+ player cash games and single table tournaments will be very challenging. I have some ideas, but they need some refining. I will post them once I can go over it more.

Please consider getting a PR guy to communicate to the public. No offense, but obviously English is not your first language and it doesn't really look all that professional, especially since you're trying to raise a lot of money. I would consider dropping the emphasis on "rigged bad beats" as well if you want the poker community to take this more seriously. You kind of sound like the people they like to make fun of when you talk about things like that (IE. the tin foil hat online poker is rigged club.) The most popular centralized sites are thoroughly and independently audited for randomness. If you put too much emphasis on this being a way to prevent rigged bad beats, you will have trouble getting more established people in the poker community behind you, such as online pros that put in a ton of volume which could prove to be a lucrative source of income for the poker network. Then again.. maybe that will draw more fish and then the pros will look past that. However, in the initial stages I don't think it's good a good thing to emphasize. For instance, the first news post on your site immediately says that you think online poker is rigged. They just aren't going to take you very seriously when they read things like that IMO.

Good luck, I'll keep an eye on this and help out when I can.

EDIT: By the way, I would consider doing Poker first instead of third. I know of at least 3 other projects that are being developed, and the network effect can have a great affect on adoption. Also, I believe the online poker industry to be much more lucrative than online mahjong and doudizho. Maybe I'm wrong on that though, I am not too familiar with those games, and it is of course up to you and your team. You should also consider publicizing your identity, I can't imagine too many people will send in money if you remain anonymous.

[tadpole_bitfrog]

Hi CoinHoarder, thanks for raising your concerns and discussing the potential challenges of our project, which brings us a very good opportunity to explain our project details to the mass.  To our potential donators who treat bitfrog.io as an investment, we hereby state clearly that we never attempt to conceal the risk of this investment, there are many potential challenges that we might need to tackle in the future, such as technical problem, communication and mass perception.  
We would also like to clarify that our vision is to unite gamers with aligned vision to create a sound community to actualize our vision. We would like to invite all gamers and talents around the globe to join us and be part of the revolution. As a group of bitcoin enthusiasts, we believe that we should endeavor to contribute to bitcoin development. Instead of creating a new crypto-currency, our emphasis is put on the ultimate application; thus we introduce the DAG projects.  
In the current stage, we have been deciding when and how to approach Sergio, who affiliates with NimbleCoin.org , http://Certimix.com , http://Firmcoin.com , http://QixCoin.com , to take part in our project. We respect and appreciate his effort in facilitating the development of crypto-currency as well as his utmost expertise in mental poker. You may probably expedite our schedule to approach Sergio, even though we though a successful stage 1 donation may lead us more convincing to Sergio while he has already engaged with Qixcoin. Bitfrog has fundamental difference to Qixcoin, we want to exploit bitcoin and add value to bitcoin by adding a real decentralized application. So we are not going to create a new currency solely for game playing like Qixcoin.  A community built by Poker lovers is a prerequisite for success.
 Thank you for understanding our difficulties and revealing challenges we encountered, which ponit out the reason why we need support from the public to support us to take a further step. We envision a fair, rewarding and open game platform for game lovers. We hope to call for donation from the public to co-create such platform with agreed regulation.   Again, thank you for providing figures to us, however, there is a little difference between data we have and aslo the approach of our POC, we hope that you can have a conversation to see if you are interested in joining the development team. We believe that there is always room for improvement. At the same time there is a big room to improve player satisfaction through wise design of UI/UX and we will use timing of real Poker game as a reference. Please be aware that this falls out of our objective as we are not aggressive Poker House and trapping people in gambling is not our end goal.  
For problems regarding collusion, in the 1st release of bitfrogPOKER, we will provides options of private table and public table. For those players who want play privately with his friends can join the private table. There are some options of public table that increase of cost of collusion. However, all transactions will be transparent to the mass, we will leave the development of anti-collusion to the future bitfrog ecosystem like our affiliates and developers.  We are anticipated to our collaboration. Thanks again for you valuable time.  

I'm not really interested in joining a team, my interest in this is purely academic and the want to liberate the game of poker from rake and politics. If for-profit decentralized poker networks are developed, I have a feeling rake-free versions will pop up sooner or later once its proven the idea is feasible. This is "ideal" poker and will put billions of dollars back into online poker players' pockets annually. Furthermore, online poker options in the US suck since Black Friday, so I (and many other Americans) have stopped playing. I see this as a possible solution to governments suddenly deciding they want their cut of the action, shutting sites down, and tying up funds for years. Furthermore, a lot of poker networks have scammed players by the use of superuser accounts, commingling player funds with operational funds, and straight up stealing or walking away with player funds. I see this as a solution to all of that and it will give a nice peace of mind to players that their money is safe. I am certain this is a "killer app" for cryptos if done correctly, as online poker is a multi-billion dollar industry. Even if a rake-free site is eventually made, this would mean Billions of dollars would be spent purchasing coins to play on the poker network. Either way it is a win-win.

I have had some correspondence with Sergio the past couple days and he assures me he has greatly increased efficiency of his protocol since the patent was filed. I'm not sure if he will shed any more light on it however, as I see you and Qixcoin as being competitors, but at least we know it is possible. This led me to try and find out ways to improve efficiency of the protocol. I came across a research paper updated March 2014 that claims to have created an efficient MPF, however I am having trouble locating a free copy. Perhaps that could help lead you in the right direction. http://dblp.kbs.uni-hannover.de/dblp/Search.action;jsessionid=D1E3B58C6D09EBEE05D64324002C3EFA?search=&q=Mental+poker (it is the latest entry, in 2014).

Your method of combating collusion is not very well thought out IMO. Having private tables and public tables does not solve collusion. You should start with the obvious methods of using fast fold (rush) poker (the larger the player pool the less collusion is possible), heads up games (collusion is 100% not possible due to their only being 2 players), and multi table tournaments (the more tables, the less collusion possible). I believe this is what your competitors are planning on doing. Solving collusion for 3+ player cash games and single table tournaments will be very challenging. I have some ideas, but they need some refining. I will post them once I can go over it more.

Please consider getting a PR guy to communicate to the public. No offense, but obviously English is not your first language and it doesn't really look all that professional, especially since you're trying to raise a lot of money. I would consider dropping the emphasis on "rigged bad beats" as well if you want the poker community to take this more seriously. You kind of sound like the people they like to make fun of when you talk about things like that (IE. the tin foil hat online poker is rigged club.) The most popular centralized sites are thoroughly and independently audited for randomness. If you put too much emphasis on this being a way to prevent rigged bad beats, you will have trouble getting more established people in the poker community behind you, such as online pros that put in a ton of volume which could prove to be a lucrative source of income for the poker network. Then again.. maybe that will draw more fish and then the pros will look past that. However, in the initial stages I don't think it's good a good thing to emphasize. For instance, the first news post on your site immediately says that you think online poker is rigged. They just aren't going to take you very seriously when they read things like that IMO.

Good luck, I'll keep an eye on this and help out when I can.

EDIT: By the way, I would consider doing Poker first instead of third. I know of at least 3 other projects that are being developed, and the network effect can have a great affect on adoption. Also, I believe the online poker industry to be much more lucrative than online mahjong and doudizho. Maybe I'm wrong on that though, I am not too familiar with those games, and it is of course up to you and your team. You should also consider publicizing your identity, I can't imagine too many people will send in money if you remain anonymous.

Hi CoinHoarder, thanks for your comment. Please check your pm as we would like to have private discussion with you.
Realizing the biggest online pokers shutdown in the US in 2011, our major focus is to advocate bitfrog to English audience. We understand the importance of catering the need of poker lovers as their recognition would form a solid foundation for bitfrog. Therefore, we would like invite PR experts who are Poker lovers to join us, perhaps we will post job in bitcointalk/marketplace/gambling. Thanks again for your suggestion and we are looking forward to your kind advice.

[CoinHoarder]

Hi CoinHoarder, thanks for your comment. Please check your pm as we would like to have private discussion with you.
Realizing the biggest online pokers shutdown in the US in 2011, our major focus is to advocate bitfrog to English audience. We understand the importance of catering the need of poker lovers as their recognition would form a solid foundation for bitfrog. Therefore, we would like invite PR experts who are Poker lovers to join us, perhaps we will post job in bitcointalk/marketplace/gambling. Thanks again for your suggestion and we are looking forward to your kind advice.

I understand your wish to remain anonymous if you plan to serve the US gambling market due to their strict regulations. I just caution everyone not to invest more than you can afford to lose. If you look at the amounts of money some of the other Dapps/Dcorps are raising, it is small in comparison to yours. It is not because you have a bad idea.. infact you have a very good idea. However, most of the other projects people have revealed their identities to get people to trust them with the BTC.

Good luck on forming a good team to get this done. It could prove very lucrative if you were quick to market and could figure out the technical issues. Consider signing the payment address with a PGP signature to prevent man in the middle attacks. People will quote the OP and change the payment addresses to their own, possibly causing someone to send in money to the wrong address. I have seen someone lose 50 BTC before because of this.