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Author Topic: DataTank Mining: 1.2MW 3M Novec Immersion Cooled 2PH Mining Container  (Read 44261 times)
phillipsjk
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July 05, 2014, 09:23:05 AM
Last edit: July 06, 2014, 05:11:37 PM by phillipsjk
 #261

...
Quote
Does your DataTank system have the ability to filter out electrolytes from Novec?  Feel free to expand, but try to keep it terse...

You asked for it: Yes.
...

ORLY?  Please elaborate on the process used, and the types of electrolytes it is capable of removing/neutralizing.  Here, feel free to be as expansive as you wish Smiley
ty

*Though do try to keep your reply focused.

Not sure how much of Capacitor electrolyte it can filter, but the article entitled "Bitcoin 2-Phase Immersion Cooling and the Implications for High Performance Computing" mentions Carbon Filters. Apparently those are good for filtering a lot of organic compounds.

Edit: For ionic compounds, Silica Gel should work. It would not target them directly, but rather pull the water out of solution. Presumably, the ionic compounds would then precipitate out.

Edit3: 3M's "Open Bath Immersion Cooling" video mentions both the carbon filter and silica gel at about 31:35. They also explain how to avoid losing unicorn tears during venting or maintenance.


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July 05, 2014, 11:38:02 AM
 #262

Not sure if you have the full context.  OP has made a claim that DataTank prevented "creeping corrosion," a problem that hasn't been publicly reported by a single bitcoin miner to date.  I pointed out that while possibly solving this problem, the Novec cooling solution could be introducing a few of its own, which have yet to come to light.  Electrolytic capacitor impregnation (Novec fluids are commonly used as solvents) and potential difficulties in dealing with both capacitor degradation and catastrophic failure were cited as an example.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=655464.msg7637984#msg7637984

TL;DR:  There's plenty of high-tech VC money looking for ground, there is no need for legitimate corporation to peddle their gear to punters through unlicenced Panamanian exchanges.
Submersion cooling is as old as the hills.  Even the "DataTank" idea is unoriginal--Google "Green Revolution Container."



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July 05, 2014, 11:40:21 AM
 #263

Yeah, he comes up with some arbitrary problems he seems to deem to hard to overcome and claims the guys haven´t thought the system through.

Obviously nobody is going to hand him the exact plans to build his own, so he is spamming the forum and flinging shit like an ape.

I hope he remembers his words when in 3-6 months everything is set up and working fine.

He has exhausted every avenue now and DTM guys have skillful and without malice answered everything to my satisfaction. He and his posse of alts are on ignore. I am more keen on the what DTM thinks will be the returns for investors? Give we all know the margins for mining are slim even in massive farms is there realistically any potential return for basically being VC funders without the benefits of 'ownership'?

This is my biggest concern as well, and I'm sure we are not the only ones in here. Looking back at the big mining farm investements that came up over the last couple of years, I think there isn't a single one that turned a profit for it's shareholders. So whilst this venture sounds really good on paper I remain sceptical about turning a profit or even getting ROI.
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July 05, 2014, 11:46:38 AM
 #264

Yeah, he comes up with some arbitrary problems he seems to deem to hard to overcome and claims the guys haven´t thought the system through.

Obviously nobody is going to hand him the exact plans to build his own, so he is spamming the forum and flinging shit like an ape.

I hope he remembers his words when in 3-6 months everything is set up and working fine.

He has exhausted every avenue now and DTM guys have skillful and without malice answered everything to my satisfaction. He and his posse of alts are on ignore. I am more keen on the what DTM thinks will be the returns for investors? Give we all know the margins for mining are slim even in massive farms is there realistically any potential return for basically being VC funders without the benefits of 'ownership'?

This is my biggest concern as well, and I'm sure we are not the only ones in here. Looking back at the big mining farm investements that came up over the last couple of years, I think there isn't a single one that turned a profit for it's shareholders. So whilst this venture sounds really good on paper I remain sceptical about turning a profit or even getting ROI.
I am pretty sure that most big mining farms have in fact returned a profit for the investors.

See the very first big mining farm, the 500TH mine at megabigpower, it returned full bitcoin profit only half a year after the start of operations.

What you are basically saying is that bitcoin mining isn´t profitable?
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July 05, 2014, 12:13:51 PM
 #265

What he is basically saying is Bitcoin mining is unprofitable for investors.  The "securities issuers" do just fine Smiley
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July 05, 2014, 12:59:42 PM
Last edit: July 05, 2014, 01:33:45 PM by Bicknellski
 #266

Yeah, he comes up with some arbitrary problems he seems to deem to hard to overcome and claims the guys haven´t thought the system through.

Obviously nobody is going to hand him the exact plans to build his own, so he is spamming the forum and flinging shit like an ape.

I hope he remembers his words when in 3-6 months everything is set up and working fine.

He has exhausted every avenue now and DTM guys have skillful and without malice answered everything to my satisfaction. He and his posse of alts are on ignore. I am more keen on the what DTM thinks will be the returns for investors? Give we all know the margins for mining are slim even in massive farms is there realistically any potential return for basically being VC funders without the benefits of 'ownership'?

This is my biggest concern as well, and I'm sure we are not the only ones in here. Looking back at the big mining farm investements that came up over the last couple of years, I think there isn't a single one that turned a profit for it's shareholders. So whilst this venture sounds really good on paper I remain sceptical about turning a profit or even getting ROI.
I am pretty sure that most big mining farms have in fact returned a profit for the investors.

See the very first big mining farm, the 500TH mine at megabigpower, it returned full bitcoin profit only half a year after the start of operations.

What you are basically saying is that bitcoin mining isn´t profitable?

Evidence.

That is what I want. Real numbers or projections based on data not just what Dave said off hand or conjecture... you can't rail against the troll and then turn around and do the same and throw out that big mines are profitable. Remember that was then and this is now. Different situation when Mega and others set up initial 6 to 12 months ago and now. Especially with a more competitive market out there than in 2013 or even April or May this year given what I saw at the HK Inside Bitcoin conference.

This where either as a VC you challenge them to produce the numbers and estimates or you as an investor go out and do the homework.

This is where I want to see if this group has done some numbers on this and give us their range or best estimate. Why should I bother putting in my BTC or $$$ given the high risks involved and no number presented. I am not going to compare what other mining fabricators have done to the community good or bad but you need to have some sort of projection. Has that been presented?

Are we the ones who are putting up the first coins to simply pay for the development of this tech while others reap the rewards in a second or third generation variant? This has been the unfortunate model in the past and since there is no "ownership" in the venture here just shares of the mining then it becomes less interesting on the face of it. So you need to be convinced with some sort of estimates or projections for buying watts (shares) in these dunk tanks.

I am confident these guys are on the level and are honest brokers but we need to have numbers to determine whether or not we should risk our money on this or just buy some BTC or another ALT that might be as risky with potentially a much greater return.

What can I expect for my say 1 unit of capacity?

That way I can compare it to other opportunities and make a calculated decision right?

---

My apologies if I have skimmed over these notes somewhere or if that has been stated here. Lot of wasted effort on the troll side to get to the crux of the matter. Is it worth buying 1 unit or 100 units of capacity? That is what investors want to gauge.


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July 05, 2014, 02:05:44 PM
 #267

There is obviously no possible way to produce evidence for future earnings in bitcoin mining.

The only thing you could try and prove is that you have a price advantage in deploying and running your hardware, which should therefore allow you to profit more than other mine operators.
Bicknellski
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July 05, 2014, 03:35:07 PM
 #268

There is obviously no possible way to produce evidence for future earnings in bitcoin mining.

The only thing you could try and prove is that you have a price advantage in deploying and running your hardware, which should therefore allow you to profit more than other mine operators.

Where did I say PROVE?

I said give evidence.

You state they made a profit... ok where is the evidence? Anyhow this is all off topic and doesn't really matter to this security. My concern is this offering and how can one measure it? Are we not just better off buying cloud hashing? Buying say altcoins or BTC? I want to have a good reason to put money into this technology based on projections about this project not other projects. I am seriously interested in this security I believe the technology is the future of mining but is it too early or too low a return given the risk? Show me it is worth it and I will invest. I am asking the DTM guys for insight here not the fanbois or trolls.

----

This is for the DTM guys to answer if they can.

Question is what are the DTM projections should someone buy 10 units of capacity?


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July 05, 2014, 03:59:55 PM
Last edit: July 05, 2014, 04:16:11 PM by Collider
 #269

You prove something by giving evidence for your claim, therefore the two words can be used with equivalent meaning.

The DTM guys (aka antirack... etc.) have given numerous arguments why they believe this operation will succeed.

The basis of all these arguments can be found in the prospectus of the asset aswell as in the first page of this thread.

They can certainly not be expected to post the same numbers on every page of this thread, so please look through the thread yourself in order to come to your own conclusion.
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July 05, 2014, 07:13:04 PM
 #270

What is your plan if Havelock disappears off the map? A fallback needs to be in place for this.

+1

It would be nice to know if shareholder records will be kept outside of havelock, as well as a backup plan for a catastrophic failure of the exchange.

Issuers are emailed shareholder lists multiple times each day.
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July 05, 2014, 07:30:16 PM
 #271


Give we all know the margins for mining are slim even in massive farms is there realistically any potential return for basically being VC funders without the benefits of 'ownership'?

Right. Units buyers will in fact collectively own income from DTM's product.
Current view of DTM insiders on potential profitability would be highly appreciated.
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July 06, 2014, 02:18:58 PM
 #272

@DTM
Is everything on track for the IPO tomorrow?
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July 06, 2014, 04:29:40 PM
 #273

Announcement in regards to the offering will be made tomorrow July 7th.

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July 07, 2014, 02:12:46 AM
 #274

My understanding is that DTMA will purchase chips at the time it is ready to deploy? Is this correct?
Antirack - can you confirm chip purchase timeline?
Bump. Would like an answer from the horse's mouth on chip purchase timing for DTMA.

We are working with a number of chip manufacturers and keep working on it. The purchase (= when money changes hands) happens when everything is in place for manufacturing of boards and deployment of hardware. This has many advantages.

After chips are purchased they will go straight to our SMD line and then into our immersion tanks and be online without delay. This process can be made transparent, in order to avoid speculation of mining for self-profit (the "testing" referred to in the other posts). However, there will be shipping involved to the final destination. With previous installations, we have literally produced boards in the morning and deployed them in the afternoon. QC testing is usually done in the production line and takes less than a minute per board (visual inspection and power up/probing with pogo pins in test fixtures + real functional test). The first time the boards start mining will be when they create revenue for the unit holders.

Some parts (PCBs etc) need to be ordered in advance (weeks) for larger quantities. At that time the choice of chip/manufacturer needs to be clear. We have a good solution for that.

Let me know if that helps.

Yes good info. Assuming manufacturing is ready to go, what is the estimated timeline from chip purchase to shipping to immersion tanks? Reasonable approximation is fine.
Bump: What is the chip purchase timeline?

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July 07, 2014, 04:07:06 AM
 #275

Announcement in regards to the offering will be made tomorrow July 7th.

what is the exact time? i.e. 9:00 am, July 7?
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July 07, 2014, 04:52:12 AM
 #276

Announcement in regards to the offering will be made tomorrow July 7th.

Noted looking out for an update sometime today then 7th on server time.

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July 07, 2014, 07:40:01 AM
Last edit: July 09, 2014, 05:42:00 AM by DataTankMining
 #277

Update 07 Jul 2014:

We are pleased to report several positive developments.

Offering on Havelock:

•   DataTank Mining has received enough funding via direct investments in the pre-offering phase to proceed with the business plan.

•   Offering of single DataTank Mining units on HavelockInvesetments.com has been cancelled for the time being. The internal platform (control panel) will be developed in parallel to the initial DataTank systems.

•   The prospectus will be updated in the near future to reflect latest information and further changes. Most significant changes are that DTMA units (capacity and mining hardware) won't be necessary in its current form. This is a step towards reducing investment risks and making DataTank Mining a more predictable venture. DTMA and investment in future hardware for future deployment has caused confusion that can be avoided (we are working with DTMA direct investors to convert units).

•   Direct investments into capacity units are always welcome by emailing to admin@datatank-mining.com. Please note that until the internal platform is available, a minimum purchase of 10,000 units (edit: 100kW).

•   We apologize for the dust to the community and to HavelockInvesetments.com, please bear with us to make this not only the most efficient mining venture, but also to raise the bar for safe mining investments. We plan to make this as predictable as possible for participants and partners.

Other Information:

•   Production for DataTank No. 1 has already commenced and AM BE200 hardware is the hardware of choice for initial deployment. We are currently evaluating if Scrypt hardware will be available in time for at least a partial deployment to use some spare capacity.

•   We keep working with ASIC manufactures for their current and future chips to make them available as immersion blades. We are also offering capacity in DataTank systems and prototyping runs to existing and new ASIC manufacturers to get their hardware immersion ready.

•   We will keep working on hardware support, deployment locations, and other partnerships while the initial DataTank container systems are built for deployment.

•   We would like to re-emphasize that DataTank systems and the operation expenses include everything required for mining, including electrical switchgear, transformers, power supplies, cooling, rents, 24/7 on-site support staff, iPhone control panel, and anything else that is needed for operation. There are _no_ other costs.

•   Reselling of ASIC hardware for air cooling users will be possible. Please note that immersion blades are based on a dual design for immersion and air cooling (1U form factor or tube-like) and we encourage manufacturers to follow our design guidelines.
https://www.googledrive.com/host/0ByWHHc0u_thNT293cTl6OXBVZms/AirCooling_01.pdf
https://github.com/blockerupter/AM_Tube/blob/master/complete_set.png
https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0ByWHHc0u_thNdzB3c2hvVzJkcTQ

•   If reselling for air-cooling is indeed in demand by Q4 2014 or Q1 2015, DTM will make available at-cost DIY reselling packages that consist of inexpensive cardboard boxes, thermal paste, heatsinks and fans, with a compartment for immersion blades. DTM will also offer shipping services at a transparent small fee to unit holders to liquidate their hardware (with or without air cooling kit).

Please also follow DataTank Mining on Twitter to receive updates:
http://www.twitter.com/DataTankMining

We also posted a couple of videos recently showing several chips in action and will keep posting progress reports and pictures frequently:
http://www.vimeo.com/datatank/
jeezy
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July 07, 2014, 07:43:32 AM
 #278

So there is no chance now for small investors to get in on this?
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July 07, 2014, 07:48:09 AM
 #279

So there is no chance now for small investors to get in on this?

On the contrary. Small investors can get in once the control panel is online and the first systems are being deployed.

In other words: the larger investors are paying for the small investors to get in with less risk.

It will take a while, but the wait will be shorter = more predictable investment. Everything else still applies.

Patience is all that is required. In the meantime you can watch it happen without the need to risk your Bitcoins on it.

This literally developed during the past few hours, so this is also very new to me.
jimmothy
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July 07, 2014, 07:50:43 AM
 #280

So there is no chance now for small investors to get in on this?

On the contrary. Small investors can get in once the control panel is online and the first systems are being deployed.

In other words: the larger investors are paying for the small investors to get in with less risk.

It will take a while, but the wait will be shorter = more predictable investment. Everything else still applies.

Patience is all that is required. In the meantime you can watch it happen without the need to risk your Bitcoins on it.

This literally developed during the past few hours, so this is also very new to me.


Will there still be an IPO on havelock or will everything be done on your system?

Can you share with us how many containers were sold?
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