Argentina Debt Crisis: U.S. Demands 1.5 billion cash (Bitcoin to Rescue?)

[Beliathon]

In short, Argentina doesn't actually owe the US anything other than the cost of printing those dollars, and seeing as they were more than likely only computer credits anyway, then (going by bitcoin payment fees), they perhaps need to add $1 to cover their costs.  

Argentina doesn't owe the US anything.
They owe the private holders of Argentinian government bonds.
The fact that the bondholders sued and won in the US courts doesn't mean Argentina owe anything to the US government.

Private bondholders of foreign debt are also private owners of USA Incorporated. Remember, the political elite, the financial elite, the corporate elite - all these are the SAME people, members of the SAME caste in the USA.

This is not a government-government conflict, it is private citizens suing a government.

Your distinction between public and private entities is wholly erroneous, since nearly all modern governments are for-profit enterprises that are privately owned, just like the FED. It's a big scam, and you're the mark. Capiche?

[Eotnak]

wait, why is it extortion on debt? if you owe the money, then you have to pay it.. no? can't blame a debt collector from collecting debt.

Fuck yes we can. I have student loan debt. Am I going to pay it ? Nope. Not ever. Over my dead fucking body will they get a penny from me.

Why? Because I don't want to fund the evil banksters who prey on impressionable young 18 year olds who don't know jack shit about the world, 18-year olds who are pressured by society into college they can't afford.

Same reason I don't buy cigarettes.

Wow.  Major LOL's, thanks.  You should've gone to community college to start with, and chosen a major that justifies the cost of your education.  The overinflated tuition costs are the problem, not the lenders.  The more people that go to cheaper schools for their undergrad degrees, the cheaper tuition will get.  Undergrad only gets you an interview anyway, nobody cares what school it's from if it's not ivy league.

...
Your ignorance disgusts and enrages me.
...

more LOL's.

[Beliathon]

You should've gone to community college to start with, and chosen a major that justifies the cost of your education.

Ahh, the new voice of modern fascism. "You should've studied something else, because everyone knows the point of higher education is to make money, rather than enrich oneself with knowledge."

Fuck off, ignoramus. This mindset of reducing university education to a scheme to increase one's earning has corrupted the entire higher education system (and everything else for that matter) into a shallow profit-making scheme that lines up and bends over for corporate interests.

I'll study whatever I damn well please. And guess what bitch, your taxes will pay for it whether you like it or not. What do you think happens to my unpaid debt? That's right motherfucker, TAXES end up paying for it.

People like you are the reason ETHICS and CIVICS are no longer studied anywhere, and the reason America is in the sorry state it is.

Now excuse me while I go study french literature and ancient greek history. No, I won't pay a dime for it. Why? Because education - like decent shelter, food, and healthcare - should be provided to all human beings as a birthright.

I'm TAKING that right as my own, and there's nothing you can do to stop me. It's already done. You enjoy being a corporate slave in the nightmare future you're helping to create with your willful ignorance.

For the rest of you with brains and consciences, let's STRIKE DEBT together.

[Eotnak]

You should've gone to community college to start with, and chosen a major that justifies the cost of your education.

Ahh, the new voice of modern fascism. "You should've studied something else, because everyone knows the point of higher education is to make money, rather than enrich oneself with knowledge."

Fuck off, ignoramus. This mindset of reducing university education to a scheme to increase one's earning has corrupted the entire higher education system (and everything else for that matter) into a shallow profit-making scheme that lines up and bends over for corporate interests.

I'll study whatever I damn well please. And guess what bitch, your taxes will pay for it whether you like it or not. What do you think happens to my unpaid debt? That's right motherfucker, TAXES end up paying for it.

People like you are the reason ETHICS and CIVICS are no longer studied anywhere, and the reason America is in the sorry state it is.

Now excuse me while I go study french literature and ancient greek history. No, I won't pay a dime for it. Why? Because education - like decent shelter, food, and healthcare - should be provided to all human beings as a birthright.

I'm TAKING that right as my own, and there's nothing you can do to stop me. It's already done. You enjoy being a corporate slave in the nightmare future you're helping to create with your willful ignorance.

For the rest of you with brains and consciences, let's STRIKE DEBT together.

Define fuck off, please.  I thought I was doing right now.

Sorry, I meant to clarify that when I typed it earlier.  What I meant is that I respect your right to study whatever you want, but I don't pity you that it didn't pay for itself via ROI.

No comments on the community college point that I made?

[Erdogan]

It was a government borrowing from private persons and free assosications of private persons. They freely agreed in advance to use the US court system in case of conflict. Had they not, they probably would not have gotten the loan in the first place.

[Beliathon]

No comments on the community college point that I made?

When I was 18, I scored above 1300 / 1600 on my SATs, and was therefore led to believe that community college was beneath me - and attending anything less than a private school would be doing a disservice to my budding intellect.

I do regret not starting at a community college, but please understand that as a "brilliant young man", I was under tremendous pressure from my parents and my school counselors to attend the best school to which I was admitted.

The best school to which I was admitted entrance cost 37,000 USD $ per year. Hardly affordable for me or my family, but that didn't matter.

Getting back on topic, here's a vid on Bitcoin in Argentina.

[Eotnak]

No comments on the community college point that I made?

When I was 18, I scored above 1300 / 1600 on my SATs, and was therefore led to believe that community college was beneath me - and attending anything less than a private school would be doing a disservice to my budding intellect.

I do regret not starting at a community college, but please understand that as a "brilliant young man", I was under tremendous pressure from my parents and my school counselors to attend the best school to which I was admitted.

The best school to which I was admitted entrance cost 37,000 USD $ per year. Hardly affordable for me or my family, but that didn't matter.

Getting back on topic, here's a vid on Bitcoin in Argentina.

Getting back off-topic:

First, I am all for civil disobedience, non-violent protests, not paying taxes, watching big banks, etc. implode.

Then there was some initial confusion about the OP and who owed who what, and to those who read the thread, it was cleared up.  Then you came in with your guns blazing saying fuck people who lent other people money under honest terms, don't pay back those debts and fuck other people who disagree because they don't read gud!  More or less.  And you give links showing how student debt and tuition has risen.

Then I was a little cocky with my response to that because, hey this is a public forum and eavesdropping is OK...and I didn't fully clarify one of my thoughts so I gave you some more ammo, etc.

which brings us to your last post about your situation and how you came to this debt that you agreed to.  I can relate a bit because I was not guided by my parents very well, whereas you were misguided by your parents.  I'm OK with my parents because they gave us the essentials and raised us way better than they were raised...and I am raising my kids way better than I was.  That's all one can ask of his/her parents I think.

Your parents were not "impressionable young 18 year olds who don't know jack shit about the world" but they guided you into a school and debt that you did not need.  They read those documents I assume and gave you the OK.  They told anyone who would listen that you were going to a private school and may or may not have felt superior when in the company of parents of public/community/state students.

The private school costs just like the luxury SUV costs.  And the lenders provided it.  I personally do without, that's how I fight.  The only lenders get my money are the mortgage company and my wife's student loans.  But she's part Italian so it's OK that she's fascist?

Hell yes, fuck the banks!  I do agree with you partially, but not the stealing part.

[ThomasCrowne]

no kidding...america demanding argentina's debt be paid off?  now that's funny.

I wonder what would happen if china did the same to the us with regards to their debt?

[murraypaul]

no kidding...america demanding argentina's debt be paid off?  now that's funny.

No, Argentina's bond holders are demanding that Argentina pay its debts.

I wonder what would happen if china did the same to the us with regards to their debt?

Has the US defaulted on any debt to China?

[pening]

People like you are the reason ETHICS and CIVICS are no longer studied anywhere, and the reason America is in the sorry state it is.

Clearly not by you, you've taken what you can and no intent to pay it back.  Well done.  While you rage against a system, you are an example of its excess:  you believe the world owes you and you will take.  You wont something for nothing, buy now don't pay later.  That is the reason for the economy you hate, because governments are doing the same by borrowing on the never never.  You are just the same as Argentina, they wanted to borrow, don't want to pay back.  Individual or state, its the same problem.

[Honeypot]

No comments on the community college point that I made?

When I was 18, I scored above 1300 / 1600 on my SATs, and was therefore led to believe that community college was beneath me - and attending anything less than a private school would be doing a disservice to my budding intellect.

I do regret not starting at a community college, but please understand that as a "brilliant young man", I was under tremendous pressure from my parents and my school counselors to attend the best school to which I was admitted.

The best school to which I was admitted entrance cost 37,000 USD $ per year. Hardly affordable for me or my family, but that didn't matter.

Getting back on topic, here's a vid on Bitcoin in Argentina.

LOL.

'Beneath me' 'Budding intellect'.

'Neo Feudal America'

HAHAHAHAHAAHA this kid. My sides.

[ShakyhandsBTCer]

no kidding...america demanding argentina's debt be paid off?  now that's funny.

No, Argentina's bond holders are demanding that Argentina pay its debts.

I wonder what would happen if china did the same to the us with regards to their debt?

Has the US defaulted on any debt to China?

When Argentina issued it's debt and restructured it's debt it had a very bad credit rating and agreed that the US would be able to resolve any disputes (via it's court system). This court merely interoperated the agreement between Argentina and it's bond holders.

Argentina simply wants to not pay/adhere to what it agreed to.

[Beliathon]

I do agree with you partially, but not the stealing part.

Property is theft. If you don't agree with stealing, you don't agree with capitalism. Come out from under your bubble of privilege and see capitalism for what it really is: a horror show.

Clearly not by you, you've taken what you can and no intent to pay it back.  Well done.

Thanks, I think so too. Sorry if you think my unwillingness to donate more to the profits of some rich asshole banksters makes me a bad person. Strike debt.

To be clear, I had every intention to pay it back when I started. My views changed as I got older and became disillusioned of the lies and indoctrination of my youth. I see the whole charade for what it is - just another scam in the kleptocracy known as the USA.

Like you and most Americans, I was a clueless slave for the first 20 or so years of my life. That's what mass education is for, after all. No more. I am awake with righteous fury. Sage Carlin tells it like it is. If you're not pissed off, you're not paying attention.

[Honeypot]

I do agree with you partially, but not the stealing part.

Property is theft. If you don't agree with stealing, you don't agree with capitalism. Come out from under your bubble of privilege and see capitalism for what it really is: a horror show.

Clearly not by you, you've taken what you can and no intent to pay it back.  Well done.

Thanks, I think so too. Sorry if you think my unwillingness to donate more to the profits of some rich asshole banksters makes me a bad person. Strike debt.

To be clear, I had every intention to pay it back when I started. My views changed as I got older and became disillusioned of the lies and indoctrination of my youth. I see the whole charade for what it is - just another scam in the kleptocracy known as the USA.

Like you and most Americans, I was a clueless slave for the first 20 or so years of my life. That's what mass education is for, after all. No more. I am awake with righteous fury. Sage Carlin tells it like it is. If you're not pissed off, you're not paying attention.

Every time a posh kid who was straight up raised in 1st world countries talk about 'indoctrination' I feel like my liver is about to give from all the laughing.

Poor, poor you. Living the the horrible concentration camp of 1st world nations and scrounging for a living underneath a landfill so that you may live to see another day and

...wait

no.


Figures, some joke like carlin is your 'sage' haha I bet you get wet every time snowden and assaunge opens their spoiled traps too, pretending to be 'patriots' or 'revolutionaries'.

You should follow your role model 'Chelsea' Manning's lead and go full homosexual right now. You are already half way there.

[cosmicapex]

If you're not pissed off, you're not paying attention.

...or maybe we're not pissed off because we chose not to go into massive amounts of debt?

[Beliathon]

If you're not pissed off, you're not paying attention.

...or maybe we're not pissed off because we chose not to go into massive amounts of debt?

You mean you're not suffering today because the self from a decade ago didn't choose to go into massive debt chasing a broken American Dream?

[ThomasCrowne]

no kidding...america demanding argentina's debt be paid off?  now that's funny.

No, Argentina's bond holders are demanding that Argentina pay its debts.

I wonder what would happen if china did the same to the us with regards to their debt?

Has the US defaulted on any debt to China?

it appears on this point you are right and I concede

on this point
just give it time.  it's pretty much a foregone conclusion i think (of our entire 2011 14.3 trillion dollar debt 8% of that is owed to the chinese...us can't keep raising the debt ceiling forever)

[fran2k]

...

A guy I have bought Bitcoin from says that BTC is catching on in a big way down there in Argentina, due to their inept and dictatorial .gov.

And I read somewhere that BTC goes for a hefty premium there (30%!).

Two takeaways:

1) NEVER lend money to Argentina, never, ever.

2) BTC has its real uses, especially in moving one's own capital out.

Yeah, is getting very popular in Argentina. The community is strong and growing bigger.

The Bitcoin is trading in Buenos Aires around Bitstamp price, in USD/EUR value. The problem is the ARS/OtherFiat price.

There is the so called "official" dollar price (now at 8,1 ARS/USD) and the "informal" or "blue dollar" (black/grey market, not banks, now at 12,20 ARS/USD). Yes! 50% gap.

Here you can check that prices. You almost cannot buy foreign cash in banks, nor gold / silver.

So, the BTC´s are traded in Argentina at the blue dollar rate. But in USD/EUR, just at average int. price.

[zeetubes]

no kidding...america demanding argentina's debt be paid off?  now that's funny.

No, Argentina's bond holders are demanding that Argentina pay its debts.

I wonder what would happen if china did the same to the us with regards to their debt?

Has the US defaulted on any debt to China?

Not yet, but once the US loses its ability to print USD it will have to default on its debts; it won't have any choice. At that point life will start get interesting. Like Argentina, it doesn't have the funds to pay any of its obligations without printing. Why the US even cares about a $1.5B debt is interesting. The Fed prints and shoves more than that into the DOW/S&P every day to give the appearance that the US economy is healthy, rather than let the stock markets reflect the depression we are currently in, and have been in, since the Iraq war began.

As to universities, people who have spent a lot of time learnng about bitcoins from both a technical and financial (and ethical) perspective will almost certainly get a better education than 90% of colleges can provide. Even most of the revered East coast/Ivy league schools, with some notable exceptions like MIT, are about making connections (and as someone else commented, getting interviews) rather than actually learning anythng useful. Also, if you want to learn about French literature or whatever, the information is out on the internet. Better yet, sell some BTC and go to France. 

Student loans are total, utter bullshit. They are designed to get people into debt early and keep them there. Anyone who uses the term "credit report" as though it has any validity beyond creating suckers, needs to rethink a few things. There are some great smaller banks and credit unions but Wall street is just a pile of welfare sluts sucking the economy dry. If bitcoin succeeds then they will be fucked over more than by any defaulted student loans.

[Honeypot]

If you're not pissed off, you're not paying attention.

...or maybe we're not pissed off because we chose not to go into massive amounts of debt?

You mean you're not suffering today because the self from a decade ago didn't choose to go into massive debt chasing a broken American Dream?

Broken and useless for the ones who made dumbass decisions.

Prosperous and wide open road for people who has good head on their shoulders and asked 'how' and 'when' rather than WAAAAHHHHHHHH

Winners and losers in the field. One of them is here crying about a very childish mistake he made which many of his peers did not. At least, ones he didn't have what it took to associate with