bitcoin and money laundering

[tmobileguy]

People should be able to do whatever they damn well please with THEIR money!

You would probably not agree with that statement if someone was paying a hitman to make you the mark...

"People should be able to do whatever they damn well please with THEIR money as long as it is not malicious or has an intent of evil to harm someone else"

[Erdogan]

Bitcoin is only pseudoanonymous (though if you hide your IP and use new addresses every time it is pretty much anonymous).

That being said, I can't wait to see what extra anonymity features that Zerocash will be bringing to the table when it is released!

You can use blockchain's shared coin to get the same effect as zerocash but with shorter TX confirmation times as zerocash has all TXs in a shared coin format and when one party "backs out" of a TX then the TX will fail and all the parties will need to try again by all signing a new TX

If your trying to launder coins i would suggest for you not to use sharedcoin as it has been proven not to be so anonymous

Link:
http://www.coindesk.com/blockchains-sharedcoin-users-can-identified-says-security-expert/

Shared coin when used in conjunction with other mixers can mask your identity.   

XMR coin is currently partnering with I2P developers to see if they can bring anon coin into the market.

Darkcoin already have two failed implementation. The current framework the coin operates on may not even be possible to implement a truly anonymous coin.

I don't think that these types of extreme privacy features have that much of a demand from crypto users.

Black market transaction still make up a large portion of bitcoin daily transaction.

What are "black market" transactions?

How do you define the term?

Stuff you don't like?

People trying to avoid brutal and punitive taxation?

Enquiring minds want to know!

Black market: Trades deemed illegal by people who trample on other's rights.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that definition. The black market would be more trades deemed wrong by people as a society. Take for example human trafficking, I think it could be agreed that society as a whole would agree that human trafficking is wrong, but sadly it is still a reality. Regardless of the legality of selling humans, this trade would be done on what would be considered to be the black market.

I agree, that is violation of rights, and everyone should be against it. That doesn't mean that some group of people can decide arbitrarily that some voluntary trades are illegal. If they don't violate rights, they are legal.

[LostDutchman]

Bitcoin is only pseudoanonymous (though if you hide your IP and use new addresses every time it is pretty much anonymous).

That being said, I can't wait to see what extra anonymity features that Zerocash will be bringing to the table when it is released!

You can use blockchain's shared coin to get the same effect as zerocash but with shorter TX confirmation times as zerocash has all TXs in a shared coin format and when one party "backs out" of a TX then the TX will fail and all the parties will need to try again by all signing a new TX

If your trying to launder coins i would suggest for you not to use sharedcoin as it has been proven not to be so anonymous

Link:
http://www.coindesk.com/blockchains-sharedcoin-users-can-identified-says-security-expert/

Shared coin when used in conjunction with other mixers can mask your identity.   

XMR coin is currently partnering with I2P developers to see if they can bring anon coin into the market.

Darkcoin already have two failed implementation. The current framework the coin operates on may not even be possible to implement a truly anonymous coin.

I don't think that these types of extreme privacy features have that much of a demand from crypto users.

Black market transaction still make up a large portion of bitcoin daily transaction.

What are "black market" transactions?

How do you define the term?

Stuff you don't like?

People trying to avoid brutal and punitive taxation?

Enquiring minds want to know!

Black market: Trades deemed illegal by people who trample on other's rights.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that definition. The black market would be more trades deemed wrong by people as a society. Take for example human trafficking, I think it could be agreed that society as a whole would agree that human trafficking is wrong, but sadly it is still a reality. Regardless of the legality of selling humans, this trade would be done on what would be considered to be the black market.

I agree, that is violation of rights, and everyone should be against it. That doesn't mean that some group of people can decide arbitrarily that some voluntary trades are illegal. If they don't violate rights, they are legal.

Any "internal controls" placed on bitcoin will drive tha value to near zero and former Bitcoin users to altcoins.

[Harley997]

Bitcoin is only pseudoanonymous (though if you hide your IP and use new addresses every time it is pretty much anonymous).

That being said, I can't wait to see what extra anonymity features that Zerocash will be bringing to the table when it is released!

You can use blockchain's shared coin to get the same effect as zerocash but with shorter TX confirmation times as zerocash has all TXs in a shared coin format and when one party "backs out" of a TX then the TX will fail and all the parties will need to try again by all signing a new TX

If your trying to launder coins i would suggest for you not to use sharedcoin as it has been proven not to be so anonymous

Link:
http://www.coindesk.com/blockchains-sharedcoin-users-can-identified-says-security-expert/

Shared coin when used in conjunction with other mixers can mask your identity.   

XMR coin is currently partnering with I2P developers to see if they can bring anon coin into the market.

Darkcoin already have two failed implementation. The current framework the coin operates on may not even be possible to implement a truly anonymous coin.

I don't think that these types of extreme privacy features have that much of a demand from crypto users.

Black market transaction still make up a large portion of bitcoin daily transaction.

What are "black market" transactions?

How do you define the term?

Stuff you don't like?

People trying to avoid brutal and punitive taxation?

Enquiring minds want to know!

Black market: Trades deemed illegal by people who trample on other's rights.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that definition. The black market would be more trades deemed wrong by people as a society. Take for example human trafficking, I think it could be agreed that society as a whole would agree that human trafficking is wrong, but sadly it is still a reality. Regardless of the legality of selling humans, this trade would be done on what would be considered to be the black market.

I agree, that is violation of rights, and everyone should be against it. That doesn't mean that some group of people can decide arbitrarily that some voluntary trades are illegal. If they don't violate rights, they are legal.

Some things that are illegal may not directly violate other's rights but may do so indirectly. One example of this would be the black market for stolen merchandise. Although the merchandise may have been stolen a long time ago, the functioning market in effect took away the rights (property) of the original owner.

[Erdogan]

Bitcoin is only pseudoanonymous (though if you hide your IP and use new addresses every time it is pretty much anonymous).

That being said, I can't wait to see what extra anonymity features that Zerocash will be bringing to the table when it is released!

You can use blockchain's shared coin to get the same effect as zerocash but with shorter TX confirmation times as zerocash has all TXs in a shared coin format and when one party "backs out" of a TX then the TX will fail and all the parties will need to try again by all signing a new TX

If your trying to launder coins i would suggest for you not to use sharedcoin as it has been proven not to be so anonymous

Link:
http://www.coindesk.com/blockchains-sharedcoin-users-can-identified-says-security-expert/

Shared coin when used in conjunction with other mixers can mask your identity.   

XMR coin is currently partnering with I2P developers to see if they can bring anon coin into the market.

Darkcoin already have two failed implementation. The current framework the coin operates on may not even be possible to implement a truly anonymous coin.

I don't think that these types of extreme privacy features have that much of a demand from crypto users.

Black market transaction still make up a large portion of bitcoin daily transaction.

What are "black market" transactions?

How do you define the term?

Stuff you don't like?

People trying to avoid brutal and punitive taxation?

Enquiring minds want to know!

Black market: Trades deemed illegal by people who trample on other's rights.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that definition. The black market would be more trades deemed wrong by people as a society. Take for example human trafficking, I think it could be agreed that society as a whole would agree that human trafficking is wrong, but sadly it is still a reality. Regardless of the legality of selling humans, this trade would be done on what would be considered to be the black market.

I agree, that is violation of rights, and everyone should be against it. That doesn't mean that some group of people can decide arbitrarily that some voluntary trades are illegal. If they don't violate rights, they are legal.

Some things that are illegal may not directly violate other's rights but may do so indirectly. One example of this would be the black market for stolen merchandise. Although the merchandise may have been stolen a long time ago, the functioning market in effect took away the rights (property) of the original owner.

I still agree, and this is still violation of rights. The merchandise should be returned and the thieves excluded from trade.

I am talking about smuggled goods, goods which the government has restricted or placed under price controls, traded on a free market. Envision high tariffs on food import, high taxes, price controls. That is empty shelves and hunger. The allegedly illegal free market is necessary to feed the people. There are countless examples from history. Basically, regulation is destructive, sometimes leading to hunger.

The black market is the derogative name of the free market that fixes the destructive violent government regulation.

[mikegogulski]

I've found it useful to divide not into just white/black markets, but into five areas: white, black, gray, red and pink.

From http://www.nostate.com/3441/black-markets-vs-free-markets/ :

“Black market” as commonly understood is a problematic term, since it encompasses both harmless things that governments ban (the cannabis trade, for instance) in most places, as well as harmful things that governments also ban (murder for hire, for example).

I personally favor the market analysis given by agorist theory, which breaks down things along two axes:

• White market: State-approved, moral (i.e. non-rights-violating) (e.g. on-the-books employment)
• Gray market: Banned unless done in state-approved manner, moral (e.g. off-the-books trade)
• Black market: State ban, moral (e.g. drugs)
• Red market: State ban, immoral (e.g. murder for hire)
• Pink market: State-approved (and largely state-conducted), immoral (e.g. taxation, conscription, compulsory education)

Visual illustration on slide 7 of a powerpoint I made for a presentation to a libertarian meeting this summer at http://www.nostate.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/What-Sort-of-Libertarian-Are-You1.ppt (reproduced for readers of this blog below).

[LostDutchman]

Shit-ton of namby-pamby Big Government types in this thread.

Such types are the greatest single danger to bitcoin and crypto as a whole.

[ShakyhandsBTCer]

I've found it useful to divide not into just white/black markets, but into five areas: white, black, gray, red and pink.

From http://www.nostate.com/3441/black-markets-vs-free-markets/ :

“Black market” as commonly understood is a problematic term, since it encompasses both harmless things that governments ban (the cannabis trade, for instance) in most places, as well as harmful things that governments also ban (murder for hire, for example).

I personally favor the market analysis given by agorist theory, which breaks down things along two axes:

• White market: State-approved, moral (i.e. non-rights-violating) (e.g. on-the-books employment)
• Gray market: Banned unless done in state-approved manner, moral (e.g. off-the-books trade)
• Black market: State ban, moral (e.g. drugs)
• Red market: State ban, immoral (e.g. murder for hire)
• Pink market: State-approved (and largely state-conducted), immoral (e.g. taxation, conscription, compulsory education)

Visual illustration on slide 7 of a powerpoint I made for a presentation to a libertarian meeting this summer at http://www.nostate.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/What-Sort-of-Libertarian-Are-You1.ppt (reproduced for readers of this blog below).

Why is the "Red Market" included in the chart that the state allows it as long as regulations are followed?

[enhu]

but one can partially hide their money through bitcoin. An article lately that i've encounter was about bitcoin and divorce.

[BoxControl]

I think OP had at least a few glasses too much to drink

[LostDutchman]

but one can partially hide their money through bitcoin. An article lately that i've encounter was about bitcoin and divorce.

Done carefully and properly, one could theoreticially hide ALL of one's bitcoin income from the prying eyes of government.

[LazerSMS]

I only use my coins for completely state approved stuff like buying services I don't need at boringsite.com, donating to the admin of boringblog.com etc.

I'm a good person 

and then I pay taxes on it, on all of it

and sometimes I even lose money doing that, but I don't care...

because I feel good then

I love my Government and I'm sure the feeling is mutual 

[Erdogan]

I only use my coins for completely state approved stuff like buying services I don't need at boringsite.com, donating to the admin of boringblog.com etc.

I'm a good person 

No, because...

and then I pay taxes on it, on all of it

you give the bullies money

and sometimes I even lose money doing that, but I don't care...

because I feel good then

You have been deluded into thinking self sacrifice is a virtue

I love my Government and I'm sure the feeling is mutual 

Think again.

[LazerSMS]

I only use my coins for completely state approved stuff like buying services I don't need at boringsite.com, donating to the admin of boringblog.com etc.

I'm a good person  

No, because...

and then I pay taxes on it, on all of it

you give the bullies money

and sometimes I even lose money doing that, but I don't care...

because I feel good then

You have been deluded into thinking self sacrifice is a virtue

I love my Government and I'm sure the feeling is mutual  

Think again.

of course it was a joke  

this is how the folk thinks, and it's ridiculous

[LostDutchman]

I only use my coins for completely state approved stuff like buying services I don't need at boringsite.com, donating to the admin of boringblog.com etc.

I'm a good person  

No, because...

and then I pay taxes on it, on all of it

you give the bullies money

and sometimes I even lose money doing that, but I don't care...

because I feel good then

You have been deluded into thinking self sacrifice is a virtue

I love my Government and I'm sure the feeling is mutual  

Think again.

of course it was a joke  

this is how the folk thinks, and it's ridiculous

Agreed and the more "regulation" the further undergoround crypto will be driven.

This is of course, as it should be.

[ShakyhandsBTCer]

but one can partially hide their money through bitcoin. An article lately that i've encounter was about bitcoin and divorce.

Done carefully and properly, one could theoreticially hide ALL of one's bitcoin income from the prying eyes of government.

The same is true with fiat. However is this something that is really necessary to have to do?

[LostDutchman]

but one can partially hide their money through bitcoin. An article lately that i've encounter was about bitcoin and divorce.

Done carefully and properly, one could theoreticially hide ALL of one's bitcoin income from the prying eyes of government.

The same is true with fiat. However is this something that is really necessary to have to do?

I dinno.

With half the governments on the planet after your money, what do you think?

[Erdogan]

Re: bitcoin and money laundering

Money are never dirty, and can therefore not be laundered. Money are always divine.

[LostDutchman]

Re: bitcoin and money laundering

Money are never dirty, and can therefore not be laundered. Money are always divine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8P80A8vy9I

[Erdogan]

Re: bitcoin and money laundering

Money are never dirty, and can therefore not be laundered. Money are always divine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8P80A8vy9I

Exacly, plus more than that. I came over this, Mike Maloney reads from Atlas Shrugged, the passage where d'Anconia opposes the meme that money is the root of all evil. Maloney gets tears in his eyes when he reads...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkivn_3zn5I