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Author Topic: BFL Single in the wild (BOUNTY RECEIVED!!!)  (Read 39972 times)
coblee
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February 24, 2012, 01:18:47 AM
 #101

But you can use a computer with 4+ GPU's for something else. Good luck using the FPGA for anything else but BTC mining.

You are not comparing the same thing! You can use the computer with FPGA's connected to it also. Good luck using your GPUs for anything else while it's BTC mining.

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February 24, 2012, 01:24:09 AM
 #102

But you can use a computer with 4+ GPU's for something else. Good luck using the FPGA for anything else but BTC mining.

You are not comparing the same thing! You can use the computer with FPGA's connected to it also. Good luck using your GPUs for anything else while it's BTC mining.
in an event of a crash
GPU - has resale value
FPGA - no resale value

So despite FPGA being more power efficient, and possibly cheaper than GPUs, GPUs have less risk.

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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February 24, 2012, 01:33:11 AM
 #103

GPU that has spent a year mining at full steam ... not as
much resale value as one might think.
Buyer doesn't have to know that...  Lips sealed

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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February 24, 2012, 01:35:27 AM
 #104

GPU that has spent a year mining at full steam ... not as
much resale value as one might think.
Buyer doesn't have to know that...  Lips sealed

Used "lightly".  Wink

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February 24, 2012, 01:43:26 AM
 #105

No that will be when ASICs come out. (soon)

do you have information on ASICs currently being developed?


on a side note, total cost of ownership as you scale needs to be looked at when comparing FPGAs to GPUs.  with GPUs, your going to have to invest far more in support hardware (motherboards, cpu's, ram, etc) than you will with FPGAs.

as an example, apparently you can run 100 of these singles off of one computer (1 CPU, 1 MOBO, 1 HDD, etc) where with GPU's, every few that you want to expand to, you have to buy another MOBO/CPU, etc.

so comparing them 1 to 1 is only valid up to say 3 units (or whatever number of pci slots modern mobo's have generally), after which the cost of FPGAs seems to become much cheaper than expanding with GPUs.

That is a good point but if you are smart you can get 6 GPU on a decent board like MSI 890FXA-GD70 (8 w/ dual GPU cards).  So if you are running 2 or 3 or 5 of these boards the fact that you "could" be running 100 isn't lowering your cost. Now someone like giga running a massive farm if he does purchase 100 boards as he indicated he intends to (not sure if he is joking) will be able to benefit from lower host overhead.

Still most people aren't going to drop $10,000+ on FPGAs to get the benefit you are talking about.
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February 24, 2012, 01:47:49 AM
 #106

GPU that has spent a year mining at full steam ... not as
much resale value as one might think.
Buyer doesn't have to know that...  Lips sealed

Tell us more about your business ethics, Mr grue, we're fascinated  Grin

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=jokeWink

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February 24, 2012, 01:52:50 AM
 #107

Now someone like giga running a massive farm if he does purchase 100 boards as he indicated he intends to (not sure if he is joking) will be able to benefit from lower host overhead.

Still most people aren't going to drop $10,000+ on FPGA to get the benefit you are talking about.

More profits baby!   Grin
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February 24, 2012, 01:55:11 AM
 #108

No that will be when ASICs come out. (soon)

do you have information on ASICs currently being developed?


on a side note, total cost of ownership as you scale needs to be looked at when comparing FPGAs to GPUs.  with GPUs, your going to have to invest far more in support hardware (motherboards, cpu's, ram, etc) than you will with FPGAs.

as an example, apparently you can run 100 of these singles off of one computer (1 CPU, 1 MOBO, 1 HDD, etc) where with GPU's, every few that you want to expand to, you have to buy another MOBO/CPU, etc.

so comparing them 1 to 1 is only valid up to say 3 units (or whatever number of pci slots modern mobo's have generally), after which the cost of FPGAs seems to become much cheaper than expanding with GPUs.

That is a good point but if you are smart you can get 6 GPU on a decent board like MSI 890FXA-GD70 (8 w/ dual GPU cards).  Unless you intend of buying 8 of these you aren't getting any benefit from that theoretical 100 per CPU.  Now someone like giga running a massive farm if he does purchase 100 boards will be able to benefit from lower host overhead.

Still most people aren't going to drop $10,000+ on FPGA to get the benefit you are talking about.

yes, the less invested, the more apt the 1 to 1 comparison is.  the further along the MH/s scale you go, the more the cost advantage swings towards FPGAs.

i'm kind of focusing on the Rig Boxes and that level.  working out some details mentally on how to proceed with them, assuming the stats they offer are relevant, which even now seems to be a huge assumption.  but even with another FPGA solution, at a 20k investment, FPGA's would seem to be the hands down more cost effective option.
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February 24, 2012, 03:40:33 AM
 #109

Still most people aren't going to drop $10,000+ on FPGA to get the benefit you are talking about.

i'd be tempted to buy one if someone in aus decided to ship a heap of them over here in bulk and distribute. but shipping just 1 of them isn't worth the postage.
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February 24, 2012, 03:55:38 AM
 #110

fancinating

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February 24, 2012, 04:06:57 AM
 #111

Thanks for posting this giga!

BTC: 1CDCLDBHbAzHyYUkk1wYHPYmrtDZNhk8zf
LTC: LMS7SqZJnqzxo76iDSEua33WCyYZdjaQoE
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February 24, 2012, 04:27:49 AM
 #112

Wow those look really tempting now.  Pretty close to a 5970 / 6990 but without the power, heat, or noise.  But as was said, they're only *just* slightly more efficient for MH/$.

I'm not sure slightly is the right word here......

BFL Single 813Mh/80w = 10Mh/1w

At BEST, a 5970 can MAYBE to 5Mh/1w when it is underclocked / undervolted.

So if you consider DOUBLE the Mh/w to be slightly, then maybe I'm dumber than I have been thinking.


Ultimately what this means is, a BFL single will be profitable a lot longer when the next significant downward event happens in price or subsidy.

Sorry Giga, I think I was focusing on price moreso than efficiency.  Obviously your #s are right and no a 5970 wouldn't be anywhere near close. 

I was wondering to myself though if FPGAs can still be used for anything else except mining.  I know the market will continue but if it were to crash, I'd believe GPUs to have some resale value vs FPGAs which I don't know what else you could do with. 

FPGAs are good for people who have high power costs, not great areas to mine with cooling, and perhaps a lack of space though.  4 of them would edge out the price of one (full w/case) rig + 3 5970s pretty well (let's estimate 3,200 MH VS 2,200 MH) by quite a good margin, though 3 FPGAs and you're kind of close there.  I would again just wonder what else they could be used for before turning my entire operation into FPGA blocks.

Oh Loaded, who art up in Mt. Gox, hallowed be thy name!  Thy dollars rain, thy will be done, on BTCUSD.  Give us this day our daily 10% 30%, and forgive the bears, as we have bought their bitcoins.  And lead us into quadruple digits
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February 24, 2012, 04:36:59 AM
 #113

The other thing to think about is how many people have bought these, and how much profit will be squeezed out of mining by them.  BFL told me that their initial production run of Rig Boxes is already sold out..!  I don't know how many they are planning to make even in this initial run, but at 50GH a pop, they'll add to the difficulty quickly!
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February 24, 2012, 05:03:40 AM
 #114

Everyones going to be jumping on the bandwagon, buying FPGA's and selling there GPU's. Sweet! GPU price drop. Schweet!

For Bitcoin to be a true global currency the value of BTC needs always to rise.
If BTC became the global currency & money supply = 100 Trillion then ⊅1.00 BTC = $4,761,904.76.
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February 24, 2012, 01:28:19 PM
 #115

Here is a screenshot ~36 hours in. Around 25.5k shares accepted!  Cheesy

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February 24, 2012, 02:05:54 PM
 #116

I wooted.

Wonder if it would work better if you put it in the fridge Grin

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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February 24, 2012, 08:58:54 PM
 #117

#2- The BFL will pay for itself in 4 months(at current rate),the others will take 10-17 months.

I ran the numbers with this:  http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php

I pay .11 per kwh on average.

Um, you need to 'run the numbers' again.

At today's difficulty of 1376302, @832Mhps, and $5/BTC, will generate $3.04 per day using 2kWh of electricity at a total cost of $0.22. So you net $2.82 per day. Cost of Single: $600. Let's ignore shipping and/or tax. $600/$2.82 is 213 days or 7 months payback period. If instead you go with the next predicted difficulty of 1,411,550, your payback period becomes even longer.

Not sure how you 'ran the numbers' and got 4 months out of it.  Undecided
Must have been the same way you somehow got '3 or 4' Icarus or x6500's to equal the hashrate of a Single. Try 2.2 Icarus.

I suggest you stop spreading FUD.

My bad,I included my other 2 rigs(350 m/h each) in the ROI,sorry Roll Eyes

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole."  -Raylan Givens
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February 24, 2012, 09:01:35 PM
 #118

My bad,I included my other 2 rigs(350 m/h each) in the ROI,sorry Roll Eyes
Not a problem, I think we have it cleared up now.

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February 24, 2012, 09:19:08 PM
 #119

I wooted.

Wonder if it would work better if you put it in the fridge Grin
another way FPGA is better than GPU Tongue

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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February 25, 2012, 04:43:25 PM
 #120

Wow those look really tempting now.  Pretty close to a 5970 / 6990 but without the power, heat, or noise.  But as was said, they're only *just* slightly more efficient for MH/$.

I'm not sure slightly is the right word here......

BFL Single 813Mh/80w = 10Mh/1w

At BEST, a 5970 can MAYBE to 5Mh/1w when it is underclocked / undervolted.

So if you consider DOUBLE the Mh/w to be slightly, then maybe I'm dumber than I have been thinking.


Ultimately what this means is, a BFL single will be profitable a lot longer when the next significant downward event happens in price or subsidy.

Sorry Giga, I think I was focusing on price moreso than efficiency.  Obviously your #s are right and no a 5970 wouldn't be anywhere near close. 

I was wondering to myself though if FPGAs can still be used for anything else except mining.  I know the market will continue but if it were to crash, I'd believe GPUs to have some resale value vs FPGAs which I don't know what else you could do with. 

FPGAs are good for people who have high power costs, not great areas to mine with cooling, and perhaps a lack of space though.  4 of them would edge out the price of one (full w/case) rig + 3 5970s pretty well (let's estimate 3,200 MH VS 2,200 MH) by quite a good margin, though 3 FPGAs and you're kind of close there.  I would again just wonder what else they could be used for before turning my entire operation into FPGA blocks.

Actually with the price of 5970's at a little over 400 dollars right now + MB/CPU/Memory + PSU you are looking at an investment of about 1700 bucks (for 3 5970's). 
3 of these are 1800 bucks... pretty close comparo if you ask me
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