Should drugs be listed at bitcoin.it?

[bitlotto]

I keep seeing the wiki battle it out but wanted to see a quick survey of the community.

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[AaronM]

Maybe someday, but it's too soon... Bitcoin is still too easy for governments to crush.

[pussystatists]

If the server is in a jurisdiction where linking to drug websites is illegal, then it may be a good idea I would hate for the administration of this site to get in trouble over some bogus law. In the USA, linking to drug vendors is a crime under the Ryan Haight act since about two years ago. If it isn't illegal where the forum is hosted, then no absolutely not. I say link to it even if it is illegal because fuck the law, but if the server is in USA I would move it some other place maybe Netherlands where there is no such law and then who gives a flying fuck what the government wants. An even better idea would be to make a bitcoin hidden service.

[SzeChun]

No it should not be listed at bitcoin.it. The offical stance of the bitcoin community should be one that is not drug-friendly. A very brief risk vs benefit analysis that it would be disadvantageous.
benefit:
Accelerated bitcoin economy with capital and interest of the drug industry
Risk:
delegitimization of the Bit Coin currency (Reputation will be in taters)
Governments who have strong drug policies will take notice to Bit Coin's new reputation (Their stance will most likely be aggressive)
*Important note that the subsequent effects of the two will mean that Bit Coin may never be mainstream in global financial industries
Strong risk that bit coins may in turn accelerate the growth drug industry
*Subsequent effect may be that drug cartels will have found a new medium to abuse
Likelihood of social issues due to improved drug economy from the new medium is possible
*If needed you may ask for a full analysis of this

At this point of time we should ask if the benefits of creating a relationship between Bit Coins and Drugs outweigh the advantages.
This is left to the interpretation of the community and i do understand these are not all the factors and everything i listed can be expanded into a more detailed analysis.
My opinion is that although there is a prospect of money in the big picture there could be many societial effects that may result from this. Even if you wanted to be greedy, be smart about it and think about the long-term so you don't screw yourself as well as others.

[fetokun]

to me, the question is: how much are we willing to compromise in order to make bitcoins popular?

It seems to me that almost everybody here agrees that governments have no business in regulating what substances a person can or cannot eat/chew/smoke/drink/etc... But still a lot of us agree on removing the drug listing from the wiki in order to not attract negative attention from people who have the opposite opinion about drugs.

I think it could be removed from the wiki, or listed in a generic name (something like 'free markets'). But that's just how far we should go on compromising.

[DeadJDona]

IMHO
that's not a point of discussion WHAT to list on site.

the main question is IS IT FREE to list and to use?

if the answer is YES - then everything may be listed.

if NO - you know all the stuff - big bosses, censorship, etc...

[fuxxinhey]

No matter what the government is going to shut you down for money laundering or attempt to do so. Pretending bitcoin is not an excellent tool for money laundering is not going to fool anyone, and bitcoins security needs to come from technical sources and global jurisdictional loop holes (only takes one country with legit exchangers to cash out and in, and the world is a big place and very slow to coordinate and some nations are run by organised crime and many don't cooperate with each other. I can get what amounts to free to open online anonymous numbered bank accounts in half a dozen different countries right now, that can take cash from bank wires and send cash through bank wires for a fee, completely legally. Drug dealers use this sort of payment about ten thousand times more than they use Bitcoin. There are dozens of nations where running these operations is not only legal, it is state sponsored. I can buy an anonymous bank account incorporated in tons of various third world African nations as well. The official policy of the Bitcoin community towards drugs not only will not change a god damn thing about Bitcoins destiny of being outlawed in large parts of the world (but not globally), but it is fucking retarded considering the fact that there are still entire governments that more or less condone their countries being used for the laundering of drug money.

Second of all, the major source of acceptance for Bitcoins is going to be the drug community. They need this currency, programmers don't, website hosts don't. A mixable currency which can provide mathematically proven unlinkability between accounts and also provide untraceability for the client?! This is going to be huge in the drug community and it is already gaining ground fast. Drugs are the number one thing likely to keep the value of Bitcoins up. People get American dollars because they are forced to pay taxes (stolen from) in them. People will buy bitcoin because they are FREE to buy drugs with protection from the statists for their constitutionally promised liberty (No government favoring of religion? Then why is LSD illegal when it has clearly been shown to cause religious experiences? Yet Catholics can legally drink alcohol under the age of 21? Native Americans can legally use Peyote? People of a certain brazilian religion can use DMT? One of the many constitutional violations proping up this war.) To act like Bitcoin is bad because it allows freedom, verus the dollar which is good because the organized mafia extortion teams demand their protection money be paid in it is fucking absurd. You statists should leave Bitcoin and not let the door slam your asses on the way out. As far as I am concerned, we are fighting a non-violent irregular warfare campaign against your ilk, and you should run off and support your side the fascist statist thugs, and stop trying to dictate your bullshit morality on us.

[Anonymous]

All drugs are legal in Portugal.

Get a web host there and go for it.   

[db]

Governments generally don't dislike drug trade. They get huge amounts of income and power from it. They do dislike money laundering but that's not because of drugs, it's because it aids escaping taxes. The drug argument is just an excuse that makes it sound better. They will hate Bitcoin no matter what. Not mentioning drugs will change nothing.

[UncleIroh]

i voted 'no' not bcause of governments but bcause lots of times i try to show bitcoins to sumbody and since the guy knows i smoke pot, when he sees the "drugs" topic he looks to me with a stupid smile and says "i see why you like this stuff"

it is in everybody's best interest (including drug vendors) that stupid prejudicial people also start using btc

it cant be a coin only for smart politicized ppl

[sortedmush]

As soon as you puritans manage to get talk of drugs banned here and and on the wiki, there will be another forum and another wiki. Make no mistake, when newcomers search for bitcoin, it will quickly become clear to them that they can use it to buy and sell drugs.

[tomcollins]

As soon as you puritans manage to get talk of drugs banned here and and on the wiki, there will be another forum and another wiki. Make no mistake, when newcomers search for bitcoin, it will quickly become clear to them that they can use it to buy and sell drugs.

It's not about being a puritan, it's about not walking around with a jar of honey outside of a bears den.

[cypherdoc]

No, illegal drugs should not be listed.  everyone here needs to think of BTC as your new baby.  u can be the biggest, baddest, meanest SOB but when u have a new baby or young kid, u don't expose them to the horrors of life.  any parent will understand this.  even non parents should.  once they grow up, thats a different story.

[skull88]

I voted yes, because what is illegal, wich laws to follow, we are an international community???
If the server is in a place where it is legal, I say yes, but with a disclaimer that warns people it may not be legal in their country and they should look that up first before ordering from/visit those links.

[AtlasONo]

Do you want Bitcoin viewed as a haven for criminals or as a brilliant decentralized currency? Posters here keep saying that a governments first step against bitcoin would be to demonize it, well you're making their job damn easy by listing all the drug sites on the main bitcoin wiki...

Take a step back from you're political beliefs and look at how this issue could hinder the growth of the btc economy.

[carlerha]

Morally, and in principle: of course it should be on the list.
However, if we consider the argument from effect I think it's obvious that for the sake of bitcoin gaining popularity it should be left off the list.

[AtlasONo]

All drugs are legal in Portugal.

Get a web host there and go for it.   

And what is the general opinion of drug users/dealers in Portugal?

[Mahkul]

Morally, and in principle: of course it should be on the list.
However, if we consider the argument from effect I think it's obvious that for the sake of bitcoin gaining popularity it should be left off the list.

I agree.

[mewantsbitcoins]

Morally, and in principle: of course it should be on the list.
However, if we consider the argument from effect I think it's obvious that for the sake of bitcoin gaining popularity it should be left off the list.

But think two steps ahead. If we remove all illegal stuff, what kind of people are we going to encourage to adopt bitcoin. The answer is your average Joe. Bitcoin gets popular - all good and well. That's step one. Step two is when governments take action against bitcoin and I believe it's not a matter of if, but a matter of when. What do you think the average Joe is going to do then? The answer is simple - leave. If we lose big portion of adopters it will cause major problems.
Not too long ago I argued the same argument, but now I realize I was wrong. We should firstly obtain a stable user base who realize the concepts and implications that bitcoins brings and not just think it's a cool new get rich quick scheme. Average Joe will have their chance to join when bitcoin is mainstream.

[cypherdoc]

Morally, and in principle: of course it should be on the list.
However, if we consider the argument from effect I think it's obvious that for the sake of bitcoin gaining popularity it should be left off the list.

But think two steps ahead. If we remove all illegal stuff, what kind of people are we going to encourage to adopt bitcoin. The answer is your average Joe. Bitcoin gets popular - all good and well. That's step one. Step two is when governments take action against bitcoin and I believe it's not a matter of if, but a matter of when. What do you think the average Joe is going to do then? The answer is simple - leave. If we lose big portion of adopters it will cause major problems.
Not too long ago I argued the same argument, but now I realize I was wrong. We should firstly obtain a stable user base who realize the concepts and implications that bitcoins brings and not just think it's a cool new get rich quick scheme. Average Joe will have their chance to join when bitcoin is mainstream.

heres a way to look at this dilemma for all the anarchists on this site.  THINK LIKE A CRIMINAL.  whats the best way to get your addicts hooked.  tx them nice initially with nothing but good (money, dinners, parties, being nice).  then once their hooked, tx them whatever way you like.  same with BTC.  be nice initially to get the masses hooked, then who cares what its used for later.  by then, it'll be too late for gov't.