And we have another Bitfinex Hookey THIEVING Short Squeeze!

[MatTheCat]

MatTheTwat is clearly making up things and deliberately cutting pieces to prove his own theory.
That's why I asked him to place a bet on it.
But you were faster than me in exposing his scam.

Good job mate!

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

Incredible.

You are actually starting to sound like a naughty schoolboy caught in the act trying his darnest to bluff his way out of it. 'Exposing my scam'? Am I trying to swindle money or BTC out of someone here?

Let's keep it simple.

My stop loss order was set to $600.11 for a mere 6 BTC.

There were many Ask orders in the wall between $600 and $608. Hundreds of BTC infact.

My stop order however was triggered at $608.13, which was the very uppermost limit of that 319 BTC chunk.

Was I simply supremely unlucky in my stop loss getting punted to the very back of the queue despite it being placed a ball hair above a large 250 BTC Ask wall, with plenty market depth above it right up until the split second when the $600 threshold was broke? Is that what you are saying happened? If so then I would suggest it happens a lot on your exchange! Hence why the Bitfinex charts are characterised by all these wild price spikes and dips when compared with Bitstamp price action?

Pesky large market orders that come in out of the blue milliseconds before a raft of Stop Orders are due to be hit! Bah Humbug!

[jamesc760]

I am with MatTheCat on this. Bitfinex and giancarlo sound like typical scammers, blaming the customers and calling ugly names to their own clients. MTC's hot-headed, for sure but it's the hot-heads who tend to first reveal the true nature of btc exchanges, remember mtgox? I will no longer trust bfx and would advise anyone who trades there to be extra careful, remember mtgox? BFX = MTGOX or it's on its way to becoming.

[Odalv]

You should first find reliable source for your data. In a matter of 20 seconds there were around 80 sale orders executed from $600 to $608 for all prices, not just $600 and $608 like you posted. Totaly wrong. Why your stop loss was executed at $608 and not $602? There was large market order above your price and when it was finished and all other stop loss orders before you executed, it was your turn to eat the asks at $608.

Perhaps bitcoinwisdom isn't the most reliable ticker for accuracy of information. But my accusation stands. Bitfinex front run and commit insider trading. No doubt the process is much more convoluted and better concealed than my eyes can detect. After all, these guys have bots with access to all the key information on trader's intentions. But I know when I have been had. I knew it before but like a fool went back for more, albeit with just an experimental amount of BTC.

Look back at the whole debacle surrounding MtGox and how often Karpeles had apparently proven that all was well, that Gox was solvent, that the banks really had placed restrictions on Gox but all the money was there, etc.....nothing but bamboozlement. Bullshit baffling brains.

You should first find reliable source for your data. In a matter of 20 seconds there were around 80 sale orders executed from $600 to $608 for all prices, not just $600 and $608 like you posted. Totaly wrong. Why your stop loss was executed at $608 and not $602? There was large market order above your price and when it was finished and all other stop loss orders before you executed, it was your turn to eat the asks at $608.

Do not play with sharks and whales, they will eat you. :-)

[600watt]

did somebody say that bitcointalk got boring ?  

great sports...

[N12]

Does anyone have an actual historical ticker source for Bitfinex to look at? We can easily find out whether or not there were trades at 602 etc. on the way to 608.

I'm looking at the 1 minute chart from BitcoinWisdom, and the candle ranges from 599.4 to 608.13 with a volume of 577 BTC, and my guess would be it's simply a large market order that went off. Then, this market order could have triggered stops set below your 600, and indeed bots could have withdrawn within this minute to decrease liquidity further. If this happened to me, I wouldn't have been suspicious. Not to say that nothing here is wrong, but I just wouldn't suspect any foul play here.

This is just the nature of the illiquidity of the Bitcoin market. Bitfinex is only special in that it allows stops in the first place. It was the same deal with Bitcoinica back in 2011, your stops would always get bad fills.

[unclescrooge]

Ok guys, enough bullshit.

We now have regularly the most volume on BTCUSD, we are earning a lot in fees (just do the math yourself), plus swap fees. We do not front run 6 btc orders, nor any orders for that matters, just to grab a few dollars more. My policy since I started Bitfinex has always been to allow users to make the best out of their money, because the more profit you earn the more likely you are to stick with us. I want to believe that this is because of this policy that we are where we are now.

Now for all wannabe traders out there, there is something that you should always know about: slippage. If someone makes a 300+ BTC market order like yesterday, it will spike the price, and if your stop is triggered at the time, you will get a worse price than expected. There is no manipulation, no tricks, just normal market functioning.

This happens on every markets and even more so on thin market like bitcoin.

Now if you don't believe this, just stop using Bitfinex and go on other exchanges where slippage doesn't exist.

Have a good day
Raphael

[MatTheCat]

Does anyone have an actual historical ticker source for Bitfinex to look at?

I'm looking at the 1 minute chart from BitcoinWisdom, and the candle ranges from 599.4 to 608.13 with a volume of 577 BTC, and my guess would be it's simply a large market order that went off. Then, this market order could have triggered stops set below your 600, and indeed bots could have withdrawn within this minute to decrease liquidity further. If this happened to me, I wouldn't have been suspicious. Not to say that nothing here is wrong, but I just wouldn't suspect any foul play here.

This is just the nature of the illiquidity of the Bitcoin market. Bitfinex is only special in that it allows stops in the first place. It was the same deal with Bitcoinica back in 2011, your stops would always get bad fills.

I lifted this manually from bitcoinwisdom at the time:

02:00:58 602.29      0.1
02:00:56 600.3        1.00626
02:00:55 608.13      319.168
02:00:24 600          255.374
02:00:17 599.91      0.01

A similar thing followed with a 250 BTC trade spiking price from 607 - 615, and then right back down again.

So we had the 250 BTC wall eaten at just under 600. Then the lionshare of the rest of the volume that took Bitfinex up to 615 seems to be 'large market orders', no doubt made milliseconds before a big bunch of Stop Loss Orders were triggered. Which means that the whole Bitfinex spike (started on Huobi) consisted of a combination of Stop Loss orders being triggered and also large market orders jumping in just seconds before the stops could execute? What over exuberant whales are making these inexplicable large market orders right at the top of a classic short squeezing sucker's rally I wonder? Whales that know fuck all about TA for sure anyhow.

But thanks to the nice Bitfinex team (who think it is OK to reveal customers balances) for clearing that one up. Nothing to see here folks. No insider stop loss farming nor any other nefarious deeds going down here. Kindly move along now!

[N12]

I wouldn't trust BitcoinWisdom's ticker, I recall seeing glitches there before. It would be easy enough to prove/disprove this with another source. I'll try and see if I can get a ticker chart elsewhere.

BTW, If there's one mishap that Bitfinex are certain to have made, I agree it is revealing your balance. That's just unacceptable, even if you did do them injustice calling them scammers.

[MatTheCat]

I wouldn't trust BitcoinWisdom's ticker, I recall seeing glitches there before. It would be easy enough to prove/disprove this with another source. I'll try and see if I can get a ticker chart elsewhere.

BTW, If there's one mishap that Bitfinex are certain to have made, I agree it is revealing your balance. That's just unacceptable, even if you did do them injustice calling them scammers.

I have already acknowledged that Bitcoinwisdom's ticker isn't the most fantastic and any little racket involving Stop Order farming that is being run by Bitfinex is not likely to be as obvious as the Bitcoinwisdom ticker makes it look. Yet that is far from being the first time that my stop loss order was punted away up the Ask wall due to some 'market order' swooping in with millisecond timing and buying up all the Bitcoins directly above my head. And then there is the whole question of what inspired the rally (against the grain of all the indicators). Whales farming for stop loss orders? If so, might there be a chance that these whales are friends of crook exchanges such as Bitfinex, Huobi, etc?

Like the naive poker player that falls foul to some elaborate scam pulled by a gang of card sharks, perhaps I can't put my finger on exactly how they are doing it but I certainly know when I have been had.

(Any Bitfinex insiders would have bots running to mathematical forumulae with access to trader data and a few seconds lead on exchange action over normal traders),

I can trace the guys that had the ask orders placed and pulled them off when the price started to raise.

Would that be because YOU are the guys that run the liar wall operations or would these guys be friends of the exchange and therefore easy for you contact and cajole into coming on here with some 'explanations'? Do you give your friends special exchange privileges? Stop Order data? Front Running access to exchange action? Nowt wrong with that is there? It is only human nature that we treat our friends favourably isn't it not?

[Rannasha]

For those that want to data-mine, BitcoinCharts keeps a copy of the tradehistory in its API. I don't know how accurate it is, but have at it:

http://api.bitcoincharts.com/v1/trades.csv?symbol=bitfinexUSD&start=1403402400
(these are the trades starting at 02:00 UTC last night)

[manfred]

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

So essentially all you are saying is: Hurr, durr you can't prove it.

Sure that makes it ok, right?

What I'm just saying is that I'll be glad to prove him wrong, but I want him to pay for his completely idiotic allegations.
What you are doing here is confusing absence of evidence with evidence of absence.
I can prove the fairness of every single transaction on Bitfinex, but I just need to reward the 2 parties that will then come and witness the fact that the trade wasn't a fake trade.
Nobody does anything for nothing and MatTheTwat has to learn his lesson.
He has a concrete chance of making 100 BTC.
If he's right ( and he's not).

Spitting hot air out of your mouth is easy, a little bit more difficult is to place your bet and lose your coins in case you are proven wrong.

Don't you agree with me?

Giancarlo

Actually, I respectfully disagree.  Unfortunately in the current state of the Bitcoin world, and in light of the Mt. Gox implosion and other numerous incidents where exchanges either went under due to incompetence or their operators closed up and ran off with the coins, the onus of responsibility of proving an exchange "being on the level" resides with the exchange operators.  It's called transparency, and it is required to earn the public's trust.

You guys had no problem with having an independent audit done back in April to prove your solvency.  You didn't first demand a bet to be made with someone before proving it.  I don't see how this situation is any different.  And why do you "need to reward the 2 parties that will then come and witness the fact that the trade wasn't a fake trade"?

Transparency doesn't mean to spend time in justifying ourselves against allegations that don't make sense.
MatTheTwat is blaming Bitfinex because his stop order wasn't executed at the price he selected.
Now even a 5 years old retard knows that a stop loss order is executed at the best price available in that given time.
It is not our fault if other ask orders were pulled when the price started to go up.
This is normal as several bots are programmed in such a way, i.e. withdraw orders when the price spikes up.
To blame this on the platform, accusing people to deliberately steal 30 usd is not only a symptom of douchebagness, but also of the fact that his IQ is smaller than his shoe size.
I can trace the guys that had the ask orders placed and pulled them off when the price started to raise.
They can come on this thread and witness that nothing is wrong with this particular case.
But as I said nobody does nothing for free and I want the Twat to be exposed to his own stupidity.
He has a good opportunity to make a lot of coins if he's right ( he's not).
But kids like him never make facts follow their words, they are just a whisper in the wind.

Have a good day everybody, I'm off for a run

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team  

_______________________________________________________________________________ __________________

Now even a 5 years old retard...............symptom of douchebagness, but also of the fact that his IQ is smaller than his shoe size.

What kind of professional, serious business talks to its customers in this manner and revels account balances?
They are well known for participating in bump and dumps and have fake volume.
If you have dealings with this retards you deserve to get goxxed.
Having lost a total of 112 btc on two exchanges (not gox) i certainly would not touch Bitfinix with a ten foot pole.

[dropt]

This thread made my day; Matthecat's a fucking idiot.

I don't see any proof here, all I see are the rants and raves of a lunatic.  Don't believe me? Check out dear MTC's post history and judge for yourself.

[removebeforeflight]

Rarely are topic threads this entertaining 
I've been on bitfinex for a few years
and consistently this forum gives them
a shit time. Way too much historical
baggage IMHO.

[Raystonn]

Those entrusted with fiduciary responsibility have greater expectations of professionalism than anonymous internet forum posters.  The childish behavior of those who operate (own?) Bifinex, including the colorful language referring to a customer and the public disclosure of his account balance without permission, are very troubling.  Nothing Mat has done, or could ever do, would make these actions acceptable.

Bitfinex has a choice at this point.  They can either issue a formal apology and somehow make amends to Mat for the breach of fiduciary responsibility, or they can choose not to do so and lose all credibility.  Account balance disclosure is a serious breach of fiduciary responsibility; one that usually comes with legal ramifications.  Additionally, the one breach you see may point to countless others you do not.  Bitfinex should act now to restore confidence.

[MatTheCat]

Rarely are topic threads this entertaining  
I've been on bitfinex for a few years
and consistently this forum gives them
a shit time. Way too much historical
baggage IMHO.

A few years?

I thought that Bitfinex has only been around for less than 2 years?

They can either issue a formal apology and somehow make amends to Mat for the breach of fiduciary responsibility, or they can choose not to do so and lose all credibility.

If they chose to do anything along those lines they would be doing for other peoples benefit (most of all, their own) cos I aint interested in any insincere apologies when what they really want to do is reach through internet and strangle me cos they know that I am onto something and seeing me shout it about a public forum (I first learned of Bitfinex through this site myself) bothers them somewhat. Even though they know 'I aint got no solid proof', they know that I know and that a lot of other people know, that they are at the capers big style.

No, I don't want no apology. I am quite happy with the way things are with my new sig links (see below), especially the link to GianCarlo's post, a man who is routinely dealing with highly confidential personal ID documents such as bank account, passport details, where he was perfectly happy to broadcast my account balance at the drop of a hat.

Say Giancarlo, I have a m8, Honest Abdul, but his name isn't important! He is interested in buying bank account details combined with addresses and photo IDs! I don't know what use he has for that sort of information likes, but perhaps you two could strike up a deal since you don't seem to be that bothered with spilling confidential info?

[MatTheCat]

Doppelpost.

[Raystonn]

Bad precedent to allow this sort of thing just because "this is Bitcoin." It harms Bitcoin's image.  Fiduciary responsibility for Bitcoin should be treated just as seriously as fiduciary responsibility for U.S. dollars.

[JorgeStolfi]

I wouldn't trust BitcoinWisdom's ticker, I recall seeing glitches there before. It would be easy enough to prove/disprove this with another source. I'll try and see if I can get a ticker chart elsewhere.

I have noticed trades out of chronological order  in the bitcoinwisdom trade log for Bitstamp. Bitcoinwisdom 's owner explained that it is not his bug, those glitches are in the data returned by Bitstamp's chart API. I understood that it has to do with clock skew between the Bitstamp machines that process trades via trading API and manual trades.  I did not detect any such glitches on several Huobi log samples that I collected.  I have not checked Bitfinex logs.

[freedombit]

BTC is dead if this continues. Why the hell are BTCers stealing from each other? Are those stealing true BTC fans? If they are, they need to rethink their short-term strategy. It will go no where long term.

[freedombit]

...
BITFINEX CAUGHT RED HANDED STEALING!
...

I really don't understand the outrage. I think it's best to *assume* crap like that is going on, and only participate if you A) knowingly accept the risk, B) have some way to mitigate it.

This is why I keep ~0BTC and 0FIAT on *any* exchange.

If everyone must *assume* crap like this is going on, then how could a single exchange take place? Next time you try to buy a coffee from your local BTC coffee house, what's to keep them from taking your BTC and not giving you a coffee? In the end, we all must have trust.