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Author Topic: Abortion and Morality  (Read 2999 times)
Hawker
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February 24, 2012, 06:01:56 PM
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In the UK, you can get an abortion for almost any reason in the first 5 months of pregnancy.  Except for 1 reason...if you don't want a little girl, you are not allowed that as a reason for an abortion.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9103839/Scotland-Yard-launches-investigation-into-doctors-who-agreed-to-illegal-abortions-of-baby-girls.html

Now we have a scandal that doctors are allowing women to don't want girls get abortions.  The health minister says “Carrying out an abortion on the grounds of gender alone is in my view morally repugnant”  Interestingly all religious figures say nothing at all about this - presumably the priests are busy looking at nice new dresses to wear on Sundays.

Let's think about this a second.  If you got to a doctor and say "I am pregnant and do not want a baby" abortion is legal and no-one passes judgement on your morality.  But add the word "girl" to the end of that sentence and you not only are committing a crime, you get government ministers saying its "immoral!"

Does this make any sense at all?

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memvola
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February 24, 2012, 06:27:06 PM
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Does this make any sense at all?

People are all up in arms seeking vigilante justice after watching a kitten tortured on YouTube. They are of course comfortable with eating burgers while doing that. Same phenomenon.
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February 24, 2012, 06:42:31 PM
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The Communists say, equal labour entitles man to equal enjoyment. No, equal labour does not entitle you to it, but equal enjoyment alone entitles you to equal enjoyment. Enjoy, then you are entitled to enjoyment. But, if you have laboured and let the enjoyment be taken from you, then – ‘it serves you right.’ If you take the enjoyment, it is your right.
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February 24, 2012, 06:45:02 PM
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let's not forget that in India in some town lots of very young girls were forced to sexchange operations just because of some fucking traditions where a male child is more desirable than a girl.

This is just fucked up.

As for the future mom that doesn't want a baby GIRL. OK. Abortion aproved. Any posibility to have another child denied. This would be the best punishment

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February 24, 2012, 07:13:35 PM
 #5

They should make people get permits by law to be allowed to have children based on the same principles as being allowed to adopt the child (as it is the same thing). Anyone putting a child on the world without the permit gets their child taken away + 10 year prison sentence. Will solve A LOT of problems.

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February 24, 2012, 07:23:08 PM
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They should make people get permits by law to be allowed to have children based on the same principles as being allowed to adopt the child (as it is the same thing). Anyone putting a child on the world without the permit gets their child taken away + 10 year prison sentence. Will solve A LOT of problems.

The problem with central governance is that when you equip them with powers, there is no taking it back. I don't like the idea of abortion one bit either, but I wouldn't prefer the other evil. On the other hand, I'm an outspoken critic of abortion, but the sheer number of people around me who took that step makes it a hopeless endeavor. There is no perfect solution I guess...
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February 24, 2012, 07:36:43 PM
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You misunderstood, I am pro abortion, in every week of carrying. My reasoning is simple: A fetus is a parasitic organism (it is) and people should always be allowed to remove parasites from their body, even if that kills the id parasite.

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February 24, 2012, 07:38:40 PM
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They should make people get permits by law to be allowed to have children based on the same principles as being allowed to adopt the child (as it is the same thing). Anyone putting a child on the world without the permit gets their child taken away + 10 year prison sentence. Will solve A LOT of problems.
Yes, because the government doesn't already have enough control over our lives!   Roll Eyes

As much as I abhor the fact that people kill little babies who haven't yet been born, I am still unsure whether it is my moral obligation to speak out against it or stop them.  I feel like I am being judgmental of people if I do so.

Then again, the US invaded Germany to stop them from killing people, and no one outside of Germany thought what Germany was doing was right, so maybe it IS appropriate to use force to stop mass genocides.

 Huh
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February 24, 2012, 07:41:49 PM
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The problem with central governance is that when you equip them with powers, there is no taking it back. I don't like the idea of abortion one bit either, but I wouldn't prefer the other evil. On the other hand, I'm an outspoken critic of abortion, but the sheer number of people around me who took that step makes it a hopeless endeavor. There is no perfect solution I guess...

Yes, because the government doesn't already have enough control over our lives!   Roll Eyes


Ok sure, but then adoption rules should be removed as well because they are totally asymmetrical (and therefore unfair) as they are now. Plus birth numbers need to drop otherwise the amount of people on the planet will lower by other means (war, famine, drought, disease etc). And I find population control preferable to those tbh.

V4Vendettas
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February 24, 2012, 08:26:02 PM
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Who says population needs to drop? Does earth have a set capacity for our species and if so how would you even start to work that out?
Also a parasite gives nothing to its host and I’m not so sure you can say that for a future human being.
 
Edit: Birth permission..Do our goverments really need anymore power than they have already? Nope didnt think so.

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February 24, 2012, 08:39:40 PM
 #11

Does this make any sense at all?

Makes just as much sense as "animal rights" laws that say torturing animals for meat consumption is ok, but torturing them for entertainment is evil.

Such laws are not really about protecting the animal or the fetus, they're mainly about protecting your Right Not To Be Offended.

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dayfall
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February 24, 2012, 09:03:07 PM
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The OP gives an interesting dilemma.  My thinking goes like this:  I would have not minded if my mother had decided that it was best for me to not be born.  Hence, I am pro abortion choice.  (I would also not have minded if my parents used contraceptives. Same reasoning.  I am pro contraceptive choice.)

However, aborting just girls upsets the gender balance for the living.  This I would object to had I been a female and my mother used this as the reason for my abortion.  This would be detrimental to society for just selfish reasons.  I am not saying it should be illegal, but that mother should be shamed.
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February 24, 2012, 09:25:59 PM
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I am not saying it should be illegal, but that mother should be shamed.

+1
Hawker
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February 24, 2012, 10:00:34 PM
 #14

I am not saying it should be illegal, but that mother should be shamed.

+1

Making sure I understand you both:
If the "mother" says kill any or all unborn kids inside her, you see nothing wrong.  But if she spares an unborn child because its a boy, you think she should be ashamed.

FirstAscent
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February 24, 2012, 11:26:27 PM
 #15

Does this make any sense at all?

Makes just as much sense as "animal rights" laws that say torturing animals for meat consumption is ok, but torturing them for entertainment is evil.

Killing animals humanely for meat consumption is not the equal of torturing animals for entertainment. Killing animals in an unkind way for meat consumption is not equal to torturing animals for entertainment.
memvola
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February 25, 2012, 12:18:10 AM
 #16

Makes just as much sense as "animal rights" laws that say torturing animals for meat consumption is ok, but torturing them for entertainment is evil.

Killing animals humanely for meat consumption is not the equal of torturing animals for entertainment. Killing animals in an unkind way for meat consumption is not equal to torturing animals for entertainment.

Not equal? Yes, they are different things. So tell me, if you had to choose between being tortured for entertainment (and let's suppose, consequently let go), or being killed, what would your choice be? And what's the kind way of killing someone? EDIT: A better way to put it: By which method would you prefer being killed and how much of a difference does it for you compared to the full worth of your life?
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February 25, 2012, 12:25:58 AM
 #17

Makes just as much sense as "animal rights" laws that say torturing animals for meat consumption is ok, but torturing them for entertainment is evil.

Killing animals humanely for meat consumption is not the equal of torturing animals for entertainment. Killing animals in an unkind way for meat consumption is not equal to torturing animals for entertainment.

Not equal? Yes, they are different things. So tell me, if you had to choose between being tortured for entertainment (and let's suppose, consequently let go), or being killed, what would your choice be? And what's the kind way of killing someone?


Nature's life cycle depends on prey/predator relationships. I think you can figure it out from there.
Explodicle
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February 25, 2012, 12:27:21 AM
 #18

I am not saying it should be illegal, but that mother should be shamed.

+1

Making sure I understand you both:
If the "mother" says kill any or all unborn kids inside her, you see nothing wrong.  But if she spares an unborn child because its a boy, you think she should be ashamed.

I can't speak for dayfall, but...

Yes. The difference, to me, is that sex-selective abortion will cause serious social problems like what is happening in China. Not having any children at all (or having them equally) is preferable to contributing to a sex imbalance.
memvola
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February 25, 2012, 12:27:29 AM
 #19

Nature's life cycle depends on prey/predator relationships. I think you can figure it out from there.

And, rival clans/families kill each other too, so murder is OK as well?

EDIT: I don't mind you preferring to eat meat, etc. but how can you compare killing something and torturing it and decide that torturing is worse?
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February 25, 2012, 12:41:46 AM
 #20

Nature's life cycle depends on prey/predator relationships. I think you can figure it out from there.

And, rival clans/families kill each other too, so murder is OK as well?

EDIT: I don't mind you preferring to eat meat, etc. but how can you compare killing something and torturing it and decide that torturing is worse?

Do you like dogs? If you don't like the idea of killing, then consider a campaign to eradicate dogs from the surface of the Earth, as they eat meat.

Do you like the idea of the Earth existing, and life on Earth? Because if you do, consider learning about trophic cascades and the necessity of the predator and prey relationship. For starters, learn about wolves, riparian zones, and clean water.

I don't advocate sick little serial killers in the making torturing animals. Is this what you're referring to? Are you having trouble discerning torture from natural processes? Are you trying to compare sick people to the way things work? Are you challenged with regard to this subject?
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