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Question: Are you an atheist?
 Yes 39 (73.6%) No 14 (26.4%)
Total Voters: 52

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 Author Topic: Faith in a higher power.  (Read 4466 times)
bb113
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 March 03, 2012, 07:10:25 AM

Well that is basically the same question. What determines the memories you have?
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Vanderbleek
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 March 03, 2012, 08:28:04 AM

Talking about time...time is another dimension.

The first dimension is a line. You need 1 coordinate to fix yourself in it -- think of a number line. If I tell you "1" it can only be that point.

The second dimension is a flat surface. You need 2 coordinates (x, y) to fix yourself. This is your standard Cartesian plane.

Three dimensions is what we experience the most of. You need 3 coordinates (x,y,z) to fix yourself. This is why, as far as we are concerned in daily life, triangles and tripods are the most stable geometry.

Four dimensions we experience a sliver of every moment. You need 4 coordinates to fix yourself -- not only do you need to anchor your location in 3d space, but at a specific location in time. Like in a computer simulation -- you need to specify where, and at what point in time.

Sure we only experience an infinitesimally small piece of "time" at any moment, but mathematically it's there. Now, ala Slaughterhouse Five, you could have "creatures" that lived in the 4th dimension, and moved through it just like we move through our world. But that's getting a little out there.
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 March 03, 2012, 10:06:18 AM

Talking about time...time is another dimension.

The first dimension is a line. You need 1 coordinate to fix yourself in it -- think of a number line. If I tell you "1" it can only be that point.

The second dimension is a flat surface. You need 2 coordinates (x, y) to fix yourself. This is your standard Cartesian plane.

Three dimensions is what we experience the most of. You need 3 coordinates (x,y,z) to fix yourself. This is why, as far as we are concerned in daily life, triangles and tripods are the most stable geometry.

Four dimensions we experience a sliver of every moment. You need 4 coordinates to fix yourself -- not only do you need to anchor your location in 3d space, but at a specific location in time. Like in a computer simulation -- you need to specify where, and at what point in time.

Sure we only experience an infinitesimally small piece of "time" at any moment, but mathematically it's there. Now, ala Slaughterhouse Five, you could have "creatures" that lived in the 4th dimension, and moved through it just like we move through our world. But that's getting a little out there.

Obligatory Big Bang Theory explanation of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1YUmJBN6vs

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the joint
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 March 03, 2012, 04:20:13 PM

Talking about time...time is another dimension.

The first dimension is a line. You need 1 coordinate to fix yourself in it -- think of a number line. If I tell you "1" it can only be that point.

The second dimension is a flat surface. You need 2 coordinates (x, y) to fix yourself. This is your standard Cartesian plane.

Three dimensions is what we experience the most of. You need 3 coordinates (x,y,z) to fix yourself. This is why, as far as we are concerned in daily life, triangles and tripods are the most stable geometry.

Four dimensions we experience a sliver of every moment. You need 4 coordinates to fix yourself -- not only do you need to anchor your location in 3d space, but at a specific location in time. Like in a computer simulation -- you need to specify where, and at what point in time.

Sure we only experience an infinitesimally small piece of "time" at any moment, but mathematically it's there. Now, ala Slaughterhouse Five, you could have "creatures" that lived in the 4th dimension, and moved through it just like we move through our world. But that's getting a little out there.

Well, actually every dimension would appear "time-like" to the one preceding it.

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Mageant
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 March 04, 2012, 08:25:16 PM

What kind of anomalous data, and what is the explanation for it? This is the first time I'm hearing that atheists or science ignores data...

The following dissertation is a good summary of the arguments against Physicalism. You will find many scientific studies mentioned therein on paranormal phenomena (mostly ESP). These scientific studes are basically the "anomalous data" that mainstream science chooses to mostly ignore:
http://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/bitstream/handle/2152/ETD-UT-2009-12-682/SMITH-DISSERTATION.pdf

Furthermore:
- the studies of Masaru Emoto on the effects of consciousnesss on water
- the UFO phenomenon with thousands of recorded cases that have no conventional explanation
- the scientific studies on the events of 9/11 and why the official version of these events is a lie
- plus a lot more

Another good source that sums of up the scientific evidence for the Conscious Universe is the book "The Source Field Investigation" by David Wilcock.

There are a number of other phenomena such as reincarnation, ghosts & spirits, cryptozoology, mythological history (e.g. Atlantis), "free energy" devices, and even some philosophical arguments which also fit into this expanded worldview.

The model that explains all this, to put it very briefly and incompletely, is the following:
The Universe is essentially One Conscious Being and we parts of that being. We are foremost eternal spirits having a brief human experience. Consciousness is the primary property of the Universe and influences matter (i.e. mind over matter). There many more "dimensions" or layers of existence above and beyond this material realm. There are many ET civilizations existing on other planets and the higher realms. Planet Earth has been put in a kind of quarantine for several thousands of year for the purpose of spiritual growth. For this purpose certain powerful, "evil" groups were allowed to take control over the Earth manipulating the people into believing the current limited worldview. Their reign is ending now though (this year). Humanity's distant past is far different than what is told in the history books, for example there were ancient, highly advanced civilizations that existed many thousands of years ago (and also on Mars).

cjgames.com
Vanderbleek
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 March 04, 2012, 08:34:52 PM

Emoto's experiment was repeated in a triple-blind study, and they did not get repeatable results.

UFOs happen for much the same reason magic tricks work -- our brains make a ton of assumptions.

What does 9/11 have to do with science?

That last paragraph...I don't even know what to say, except that from a scientific viewpoint, we have no evidence of any of that. There's the possibility, but we've yet to uncover anything on Mars that gives an indication of life.
the joint
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 March 04, 2012, 08:41:48 PM

Emoto's experiment was repeated in a triple-blind study, and they did not get repeatable results.

What was the design of the triple-blind study?  I'd be curious to take a look at it.

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Matthew N. Wright
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 March 04, 2012, 08:43:02 PM

You see what happens here is that Atlas asks one question, he counts on no one being able to stay on topic, then he walks away and feels like he's done some good in the world because people are talking in a thread that they can lock whenever he wants.

You guys are suckers. From now on, never respond to a thread from Atlas-- start your own as a response and then lock it immediately. It will really fuck with his mind.

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Vanderbleek
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 March 04, 2012, 08:43:55 PM

That's the full write-up for it.
the joint
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 March 04, 2012, 08:47:28 PM

Thanks

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Mageant
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 March 04, 2012, 08:52:08 PM

Emoto's experiment was repeated in a triple-blind study, and they did not get repeatable results.

UFOs happen for much the same reason magic tricks work -- our brains make a ton of assumptions.

What does 9/11 have to do with science?

That last paragraph...I don't even know what to say, except that from a scientific viewpoint, we have no evidence of any of that. There's the possibility, but we've yet to uncover anything on Mars that gives an indication of life.

Putting down UFOs as "tricks of the mind" is exactly what I am talking about. This is not being scientific.

The events of 9/11, or rather the conspiracy behind it that scientific studies have uncovered proves that there is a powerful group of people that are able to control the media, mainstream science and the perception of the masses. It therefore cannot be concluded that unusual phenomena are false just because they are not accepted in the mainstream view. These people have the power to hide the truth from us.

There currently is no life on Mars (at least none we have detected) but in the past there was life, even an entire civilization on Mars. They destroyed themselves and the planet's atmosphere (which used to be much thicker).

cjgames.com
Hawker
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 March 04, 2012, 08:58:45 PM

Mageant - you need to go here: http://www.davidicke.com/

You will fit right in.

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Vanderbleek
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 March 04, 2012, 09:22:51 PM

Emoto's experiment was repeated in a triple-blind study, and they did not get repeatable results.

UFOs happen for much the same reason magic tricks work -- our brains make a ton of assumptions.

What does 9/11 have to do with science?

That last paragraph...I don't even know what to say, except that from a scientific viewpoint, we have no evidence of any of that. There's the possibility, but we've yet to uncover anything on Mars that gives an indication of life.

Putting down UFOs as "tricks of the mind" is exactly what I am talking about. This is not being scientific.

The events of 9/11, or rather the conspiracy behind it that scientific studies have uncovered proves that there is a powerful group of people that are able to control the media, mainstream science and the perception of the masses. It therefore cannot be concluded that unusual phenomena are false just because they are not accepted in the mainstream view. These people have the power to hide the truth from us.

There currently is no life on Mars (at least none we have detected) but in the past there was life, even an entire civilization on Mars. They destroyed themselves and the planet's atmosphere (which used to be much thicker).

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/17-05/ff_neuroscienceofmagic?currentPage=all
That's what I'm talking about with magic tricks. It's science -- the brain makes all kinds of fun assumptions, magicians abuse that.

If mars had a much thicker atmosphere and life, we should be seeing much heavier carbon-rich deposits than we do. Assuming you're talking about "life as we know it".
Otoh
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 March 04, 2012, 09:39:45 PM

lets have a bash at this, atm > 1 bottle of wine & < 2 bottles

there is only the present eternal moment, it encompasses everything & when one's awareness isn't in it then one is in a dream like state, an illusion

there is only an infinite awareness, it encompasses everything, it is everything including everything that ever could be, we are it, but just for the lulz it chooses to play a game of lets forget & manifest this LF consciousness in to physical material temporal existence (in our case) & while we retain some profound realization of this (which explains all religions etc), we are actually programed (have programed ourselves) to not get it - otherwise there would be no game to play = less fun & actually there's also a purpose behind it, but I'll leave that for now

side note: by programed to not get it, it doesn't of course mean that we can't, in fact the whole game seems to mostly evolve/revolve around our getting it what could be called enlightenment or presence & as for programmed it's just like we choose to play some computer game & then assume that char within the rules we've set, the more aware one is the more one may see the program, most peeps live in the equivalent state of a sub-routine atm but that's OK, eternal time & the penny may/will drop one day - the funny thing is that's such a shocking experience when it does that it's hard to survive the level up, still infinite lives hax so np

Earth = elementary school, master the elements here & level up, to help you get them in balance guide books like a simple pack of playing cards can be very helpful, Tarot cards if you're close to graduating otherwise leave them alone, baby food - any religion of your choice but try not to end your days still supping baby formula - the mystic sections which each religion have are for sure though a potential stairway to heaven (awakening), like Sufi, Qabalah; maybe even ninja Jesuit (haven't checked those guys out so much as yet) & of course Buddhism isn't a religion at all though many like to treat it as such - it's seeing/being reality which one is (excuse spelling pse - ie how I spell Kabbalah)

Reality is created anew in every present moment, it isn't linear

anyway to get back to the OP, "Faith in a higher power" from a viewpoint say of the ego, of separation, then obviously there are going to be powers & more importantly awarenesses both higher & lower than one's own (less seemingly separated), just look at nature & evolution, we have just about climbed out of the primeval swamp but not that long ago & are all too happy to dive back in the moment the lights go out &  the game gets the better of us

"Faith in a higher power" is just reinforcement of the illusion of separation & a dis-empowerment, plus a negation of one's own total responsibility for one's reality - ie it's an ego trip & a sure way to level down

"Are you an atheist" I believe it asked in the poll - this would really need a definition of what might be construed as god here I expect, as an atheist I guess disagrees with that concept - to me both atheist & faith in a higher power are equally flawed & anyway it's time to be getting on with the 2nd bottle of wine, sry about having done no spell check etc...

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Rassah
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 March 04, 2012, 10:14:49 PM

Mageant, none of the things you mentioned can be tested through repeatable experiments. I can't see any way we can design an experiment to repeat and record UFO sightings and come to any conclusion. How would you design a scientific experiment around UFOs that could be carried out by anyone with similar results?

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 March 04, 2012, 10:21:23 PM

Mageant, none of the things you mentioned can be tested through repeatable experiments. I can't see any way we can design an experiment to repeat and record UFO sightings and come to any conclusion. How would you design a scientific experiment around UFOs that could be carried out by anyone with similar results?

The scientific studies mentioned in the paper can be repeated.
There fields of science, such as meterology, that work without repeatable experiments yet are still considering scientific.
Even so, the evidence the UFOs have left behind have been measured and these measurements can be reexamined.
Also, there are in fact "hotspots", where UFOs keep reappearing. Here you can (and people have) set up measuring devices which have in fact measured UFOs recurringly.

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Rassah
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 March 04, 2012, 10:32:40 PM

Mageant, none of the things you mentioned can be tested through repeatable experiments. I can't see any way we can design an experiment to repeat and record UFO sightings and come to any conclusion. How would you design a scientific experiment around UFOs that could be carried out by anyone with similar results?

The scientific studies mentioned in the paper can be repeated.
There fields of science, such as meterology, that work without repeatable experiments yet are still considering scientific.

Specific theories about how weather patterns function, based on irrefutable laws of physics, have been established. Those theories predict the weather perfectly within a range of specified input parameters. As predictions go further out into the future, there are more and more inputs to consider, which is why they get less and less precise a few days out. Still, key point is meteorology depends on physical interaction of things, based on laws of physics. Even better, these theories and computational models ca be tested and adjusted as we experience more weather.

Even so, the evidence the UFOs have left behind have been measured and these measurements can be reexamined.
Also, there are in fact "hotspots", where UFOs keep reappearing. Here you can (and people have) set up measuring devices which have in fact measured UFOs recurringly.

These measurements, do they start out with the conclusion of "we don't know what this is, and should explore all variables to build a conclusion," or do they start out with "these are aliens, let's measure the variables to prove they are aliens?" That's the major difference between science and faith: the former doesn't work towards conclusions.

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 March 05, 2012, 03:51:54 AM

Higher power as in higher hash power, right ?

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Matthew N. Wright
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 March 05, 2012, 04:01:22 AM

This thread went emo.

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 March 05, 2012, 04:10:55 AM

This thread went emo.

I think I found bigfoot!

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