How big is Bitcoin's presence in China?

[ctoon6]

China is only an industrial super power because they keep their currency fixed. I have heard that the PRC is starting to see some inflation, although i do not have hard facts. But i do know, the moment they stop fixing the the RMB, the industrial base will not be able to be sustained.

I have no idea how regular PRC citizens think of their government as of now, but it could be possible that some citizens could see what they are doing and use bitcoin as protection against inflation. Although gold would be better suited for this, but i have no idea what the laws on gold are in PRC.

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[CIYAM]

Indeed inflation is a big concern in China and especially for very low income earners who have to spend nearly all of their earnings on food and housing.

Gold can be bought from banks and is I think being viewed by many as an inflation hedge (at least those that can afford to buy some).

[friedcat]

China is only an industrial super power because they keep their currency fixed. I have heard that the PRC is starting to see some inflation, although i do not have hard facts. But i do know, the moment they stop fixing the the RMB, the industrial base will not be able to be sustained.

I have no idea how regular PRC citizens think of their government as of now, but it could be possible that some citizens could see what they are doing and use bitcoin as protection against inflation. Although gold would be better suited for this, but i have no idea what the laws on gold are in PRC.

Regular PRC citizens think their government as a necessary evil that is more evil than necessary. Many people buy gold or silver, but more people like investing in houses. Precious metal is allowed in China, but the policy in China is very volatile, no one can tell what the government will do in 5 or 10 years. Ordinary families with low or moderate income suffer from this uncertainty.

[hashman]

China is only an industrial super power because they keep their currency fixed.

Perhaps by "fixed"  you mean importing USD inflation and creating money from nothing as fast as helicopter Ben?
Anyway, there are a few other factors that are involved, no matter what you might mean by industrial super power. 

 I have heard that the PRC is starting to see some inflation..

Ya think?   
Take a look at real estate prices, real wages, or any other commodity over the last 20 years to get a feel for how much RMB is being printed.
All double digit annual inflation.  Another index that shows monetary inflation is unadjusted GDP.   

[stochastic]

...I have heard that the PRC is starting to see some inflation...

Inflation is rough there.  From May 2011 to December 2011 the inflation on basic foods was up 5-10% in the same markets.

[ctoon6]

I would like to thank you guys for all the wonderful (or informative, however you like to phrase it) information about the modern day PRC.

[Seal]

...I have heard that the PRC is starting to see some inflation...

Inflation is rough there.  From May 2011 to December 2011 the inflation on basic foods was up 5-10% in the same markets.

Isn't the interest rate also high out there?

[finway]

Central Banks are stealing people's treasure all over the world,
especially in China.

[ColdHardMetal]

I was surprised that S. Korea didn't register more interest being all high tech & stuff

Koreans tend to not access non-Korean sites. They have their own domestic facebook type systems, search engines etc, so unless something has a significant Korean language presence the aren't likely to notice it.

I do think they'd like it. Retail Forex trading isn't accessible from here. Korean citizens aren't allowed into casinos and things like that. Access to that kind of thing via BTC would be right up their alley.

Unfortunately there isn't an easy way to get KRW into BTC and vice versa. Banking regs are still quite strict here as a result of the currency crisis in the late 90s, so the likelihood of an exchange getting off the ground here is quite low. Which is a shame because they have non-revocable (as far as I'm aware based on what the bank websites tell me when I make transfers), domestic, interbank transfers that are essentially free.

[friedcat]

...I have heard that the PRC is starting to see some inflation...

Inflation is rough there.  From May 2011 to December 2011 the inflation on basic foods was up 5-10% in the same markets.

Isn't the interest rate also high out there?

The actual interest rate is indeed very high. But you'll have to know the right place to invest first.

The interest rate in banks are highly regulated to a very low level. The returns of bonds do not match CPI either.

The stock market in China is basically a scam of Chinese government to cheat out people's money to save and foster the corrupting and inefficient state owned enterprises. It's the heaven of manipulators and speculators, especially those who has relationship with government officers, but the last place any serious investors will look at.

The interest rate of private loans, as a reaction, is very high. But it's not without risk. Any interest rate higher than 400% of the nominal interest rate of banks, is not protected by the law of PR China.

You could also invest in houses and precious metal. Or you can directly invest into some business without stock exchanges. But none of them are as safe as doing so in western countries, due to the unpredictable future move of the non-constitutional PRC government.

[stochastic]

...I have heard that the PRC is starting to see some inflation...

Inflation is rough there.  From May 2011 to December 2011 the inflation on basic foods was up 5-10% in the same markets.

Isn't the interest rate also high out there?

The actual interest rate is indeed very high. But you'll have to know the right place to invest first.

A lot of people can't get loans anyway though.  They borrow from family.  I don't see many people getting loans as the housing market is slowing down in China.  In Guangzhou they have cut some prices by 75%.

[friedcat]

...I have heard that the PRC is starting to see some inflation...

Inflation is rough there.  From May 2011 to December 2011 the inflation on basic foods was up 5-10% in the same markets.

Isn't the interest rate also high out there?

The actual interest rate is indeed very high. But you'll have to know the right place to invest first.

A lot of people can't get loans anyway though.  They borrow from family.  I don't see many people getting loans as the housing market is slowing down in China.  In Guangzhou they have cut some prices by 75%.

In Jiangsu and Zhejiang, a vast number of small and medium sized manufacture companies, which contribute to a considerable portion of the whole economy, rely on loans to live and thrive. They usually get private loans, because banks usually aren't willing to let them borrow.

[evoorhees]

China is only an industrial super power because they keep their currency fixed.

That's quite an exaggeration. They prevent their currency from appreciating by printing more of it, this makes Chinese goods cheaper to foreigners and subsidizes exports. However, it simultaneously limits imports and stifles growth in other ways. If "fixing a currency" was all it took to become an industrial super power, we'd see lots more industrial super powers.

I have heard that the PRC is starting to see some inflation, although i do not have hard facts. But i do know, the moment they stop fixing the the RMB, the industrial base will not be able to be sustained.

They're not "starting" to see it - they are the ones causing it and it's not a new phenomenon. As mentioned above, the way they keep their currency debased is by inflating it, so of course there is inflation

The moment they stop fixing the RMB, it'll appreciate, the average Chinese person will suddenly have vastly higher purchasing power, and their economy will change/evolve to cater to the new dynamics. Their industrial base may strengthen after such an incident, as domestic demand may outpace the fall in foreign demand. Too many factors to make conclusive statements like that. Economies are dynamic creatures.

[late443]

Although gold would be better suited for this, but i have no idea what the laws on gold are in PRC.

Unfortunately they do not have that right either.

   Article 3. The State shall pursue a policy of unified control, monopoly purchase and distribution of gold and silver.

source:http://www.asianlii.org/cn/legis/cen/laws/rotcogas425/

[Otoh]

Although gold would be better suited for this, but i have no idea what the laws on gold are in PRC.

Unfortunately they do not have that right either.

  Article 3. The State shall pursue a policy of unified control, monopoly purchase and distribution of gold and silver.

source:http://www.asianlii.org/cn/legis/cen/laws/rotcogas425/

that article is horrific, totally draconian - I wonder if it's enforced as written, I was under the impression that the PRC gov was encouraging their peep's personal private purchase of PMs atm, gold especially, and that it was State purchaser of all PRC gold mining production for it's own coffers (a hell of a lot of world % produced) plus importing too for CB bullion reserves purchases

but if it is so repressive re gold, ie no more than about an ounce can be taken out by anyone, then Bitcoins will serve a need there by those who wish to not be bound by said controls & so may flourish for that, whether banned at a latter date or not

[Nivco]

Eurofag here, was a small time miner (+/- 4Ghash/s), but quit.
I'm flying to Beijing in few weeks for few months to write my master's thesis on civil liberties on the Web in China. A section shall have crypto-currency as subject, focusing on Bitcoin.

In a previous post was mentionned the fact that western uses are not present in China. Vastly used, cash provides same anonymity as Bitcoin does. What could be the main reasons Chinese would use Bitcoin ?

What'd be the threshold for the PRC Government to intervene on the Bitcoin subject ?



p.s. as poor student, also looking to make extra $$, any tips on getting advantages on my travel ? (import goods ? btc wallet on usb ?!  )

[friedcat]

Eurofag here, was a small time miner (+/- 4Ghash/s), but quit.
I'm flying to Beijing in few weeks for few months to write my master's thesis on civil liberties on the Web in China. A section shall have crypto-currency as subject, focusing on Bitcoin.

In a previous post was mentionned the fact that western uses are not present in China. Vastly used, cash provides same anonymity as Bitcoin does. What could be the main reasons Chinese would use Bitcoin ?

What'd be the threshold for the PRC Government to intervene on the Bitcoin subject ?



p.s. as poor student, also looking to make extra $$, any tips on getting advantages on my travel ? (import goods ? btc wallet on usb ?!  )

Chinese would use Bitcoin as an investment opportunity, they would also use it to pay for some internet services that are illegal in China.

The Bitcoin subject is far too negligible for the PRC Government. Running exchanges might violate the current laws, but the Bitcoin network as a whole will not be an attacking target of the government in at least several years.

answer to your p.s.: I could give you some general advice. Cameras, pads, and laptops are considerably more expensive in China, because of the tariff and VAT. You could take some of them and sell. Perfume, cosmetics and jewelry are also profitable. Finding enough buyers is not easy though. On the other hand, pirate books, DVDs and software are everywhere in China and they are nearly free. You could carry some back to your country if you are not morally against it and ready to take the risk when passing the customs. I suggest you to enter China via Shanghai or Beijing. The probability of getting your luggage checked in southern China cities is much higher.

[BusmasterDMA]

I was surprised that S. Korea didn't register more interest being all high tech & stuff

Koreans tend to not access non-Korean sites. They have their own domestic facebook type systems, search engines etc, so unless something has a significant Korean language presence the aren't likely to notice it.

I do think they'd like it. Retail Forex trading isn't accessible from here. Korean citizens aren't allowed into casinos and things like that. Access to that kind of thing via BTC would be right up their alley.

Unfortunately there isn't an easy way to get KRW into BTC and vice versa. Banking regs are still quite strict here as a result of the currency crisis in the late 90s, so the likelihood of an exchange getting off the ground here is quite low. Which is a shame because they have non-revocable (as far as I'm aware based on what the bank websites tell me when I make transfers), domestic, interbank transfers that are essentially free.

Ogrr could wind up serving as a niche market to introduce Korea to Bitcoin.  We're all aware of the extent to which Koreans love Blizzard games. Reports are that that the new real-money auction house feature of Diablo III will not be available in Korea, due to concerns that it resembles gambling. This will encourage players to continue privately trading virtual items.  The Korean-language subforum (한국어) already shows significantly more activity than any other language subforum: https://ogrr.com/forum.php?f=45

[Seal]

I was surprised that S. Korea didn't register more interest being all high tech & stuff

Koreans tend to not access non-Korean sites. They have their own domestic facebook type systems, search engines etc, so unless something has a significant Korean language presence the aren't likely to notice it.

I do think they'd like it. Retail Forex trading isn't accessible from here. Korean citizens aren't allowed into casinos and things like that. Access to that kind of thing via BTC would be right up their alley.

Unfortunately there isn't an easy way to get KRW into BTC and vice versa. Banking regs are still quite strict here as a result of the currency crisis in the late 90s, so the likelihood of an exchange getting off the ground here is quite low. Which is a shame because they have non-revocable (as far as I'm aware based on what the bank websites tell me when I make transfers), domestic, interbank transfers that are essentially free.

Ogrr could wind up serving as a niche market to introduce Korea to Bitcoin.  We're all aware of the extent to which Koreans love Blizzard games. Reports are that that the new real-money auction house feature of Diablo III will not be available in Korea, due to concerns that it resembles gambling. This will encourage players to continue privately trading virtual items.  The Korean-language subforum (한국어) already shows significantly more activity than any other language subforum: https://ogrr.com/forum.php?f=45

They should lead the bitcoin market in my opinion, the gaming culture there means there will be no shortage of powerful graphics cards to mine with.

[stochastic]

Eurofag here, was a small time miner (+/- 4Ghash/s), but quit.
I'm flying to Beijing in few weeks for few months to write my master's thesis on civil liberties on the Web in China. A section shall have crypto-currency as subject, focusing on Bitcoin.

In a previous post was mentionned the fact that western uses are not present in China. Vastly used, cash provides same anonymity as Bitcoin does. What could be the main reasons Chinese would use Bitcoin ?

What'd be the threshold for the PRC Government to intervene on the Bitcoin subject ?



p.s. as poor student, also looking to make extra $$, any tips on getting advantages on my travel ? (import goods ? btc wallet on usb ?!  )

Chinese would use Bitcoin as an investment opportunity, they would also use it to pay for some internet services that are illegal in China.

The Bitcoin subject is far too negligible for the PRC Government. Running exchanges might violate the current laws, but the Bitcoin network as a whole will not be an attacking target of the government in at least several years.

answer to your p.s.: I could give you some general advice. Cameras, pads, and laptops are considerably more expensive in China, because of the tariff and VAT. You could take some of them and sell. Perfume, cosmetics and jewelry are also profitable. Finding enough buyers is not easy though. On the other hand, pirate books, DVDs and software are everywhere in China and they are nearly free. You could carry some back to your country if you are not morally against it and ready to take the risk when passing the customs. I suggest you to enter China via Shanghai or Beijing. The probability of getting your luggage checked in southern China cities is much higher.

Sometimes when I fly to China I take a bag full of ipads, gucci purses, ect.  That pays for my flight itself.

Many normal Chinese people play with the stock market.  I tell some that what they do is too risky but they do it anyway.  It is basically gambling, but if they knew they could do the same thing with bitcoins....