BFL Monarch, in the Cloud.. (600GHs)

[DrG]

I love the part where they say they're under no legal obligation.

They should be refunding the people who want a refund since they haven't shipped.  FTC has laws that clearly spell this out, but in BFL's world laws are made to be broken.

Why would anybody want 600GH/s from them now for $4500.  You can buy 3 S1s for $500 that do the same thing.

There have been several articles/reports that BFL would use their customer's miners to mine at their pool for their own account. It is almost like they were secretly charging their customers higher prices in the form of delayed shipments.

That's last year's news (which sadly is repeated this year).

I think the issue smoothie brought up is why cloud mine 600GH/s for a customer when they could ship the device.  The reason being that they don't have a device doing 600, or if they do it's not a Monarch (might even be a KNC Jup they bought second hand).  They could have some Neptunes and have a program to split the hashes between different accounts, allocating 600GH/s worth of WU to each account - which is most likely what is happening.

They probably did this to commit the customer to the purchase rather than acknowledging that they should refund the pre-order.

I don't think it is the fact that they don't have a 600 GHs device, it is that the device is not as efficient in terms of electric usage as what they advertised. The delays have essentially made it so the machines might have ROI to they will def not every come anywhere near to ROI

Trust me, their efficiency is not the issue this time (that was the 2013 failed promise).  The issue currently is their boards are pulling too much power and burning out.  Apparently their engineers at the zoo are busy throwing poo.

BFL advertised a 600GH/s device.  Unlike their last go around they can't just give you smaller units like they did with the minirig.  Most people only have 1 PCIe slot per machine that could handle that much heat.  So they are forced to try to cram 600GH/s onto a PCIe card.  It is doable if done by professional.  But BFL would have to find some professionals since they can't even handle their own PR mascot correctly.

[1714901676]

1714901676

[1714901676]

1714901676

[1714901676]

1714901676

[1714901676]

1714901676

[1714901676]

1714901676

[1714901676]

1714901676

[guitarplinker]

You probably won't ever see your initial investment back, but at least you have 600GH/s mining for you right now that is hosted and looks like it has excellent uptime.

[zcline]

What a mess, I feel terrible for people that lost their money to this company.  Yes, it is lost, getting 600gh at this point is a joke.  It's an expensive but very important lesson we can all learn from.  My guess is BFL has no choice but to scam their customers at this point.  I doubt they have the money left to provide refunds.

[philipma1957]

What a mess, I feel terrible for people that lost their money to this company.  Yes, it is lost, getting 600gh at this point is a joke.  It's an expensive but very important lesson we can all learn from.  My guess is BFL has no choice but to scam their customers at this point.  I doubt they have the money left to provide refunds.

not to defend bfl.  as they have not done well by me,but  600gh hashing will earn something maybe 1 coin.
still looks like a big loss.

[InwardContour]

I love the part where they say they're under no legal obligation.

They should be refunding the people who want a refund since they haven't shipped.  FTC has laws that clearly spell this out, but in BFL's world laws are made to be broken.

Why would anybody want 600GH/s from them now for $4500.  You can buy 3 S1s for $500 that do the same thing.

There have been several articles/reports that BFL would use their customer's miners to mine at their pool for their own account. It is almost like they were secretly charging their customers higher prices in the form of delayed shipments.

That's last year's news (which sadly is repeated this year).

I think the issue smoothie brought up is why cloud mine 600GH/s for a customer when they could ship the device.  The reason being that they don't have a device doing 600, or if they do it's not a Monarch (might even be a KNC Jup they bought second hand).  They could have some Neptunes and have a program to split the hashes between different accounts, allocating 600GH/s worth of WU to each account - which is most likely what is happening.

They probably did this to commit the customer to the purchase rather than acknowledging that they should refund the pre-order.

I don't think it is the fact that they don't have a 600 GHs device, it is that the device is not as efficient in terms of electric usage as what they advertised. The delays have essentially made it so the machines might have ROI to they will def not every come anywhere near to ROI

Trust me, their efficiency is not the issue this time (that was the 2013 failed promise).  The issue currently is their boards are pulling too much power and burning out.  Apparently their engineers at the zoo are busy throwing poo.

BFL advertised a 600GH/s device.  Unlike their last go around they can't just give you smaller units like they did with the minirig.  Most people only have 1 PCIe slot per machine that could handle that much heat.  So they are forced to try to cram 600GH/s onto a PCIe card.  It is doable if done by professional.  But BFL would have to find some professionals since they can't even handle their own PR mascot correctly.

They would have to give customers a lot more then two units in order for them to potentially ROI.

Miners could potentially house the cards in a milkcrate fashion similar to how GPU rigs were setup

[phillipsjk]

Trust me, their efficiency is not the issue this time (that was the 2013 failed promise).  The issue currently is their boards are pulling too much power and burning out.  Apparently their engineers at the zoo are busy throwing poo.

BFL advertised a 600GH/s device.  Unlike their last go around they can't just give you smaller units like they did with the minirig.  Most people only have 1 PCIe slot per machine that could handle that much heat.  So they are forced to try to cram 600GH/s onto a PCIe card.  It is doable if done by professional.  But BFL would have to find some professionals since they can't even handle their own PR mascot correctly.

Assuming it draws 1W/Ghash, there is no way they are going to be able to cool in in the PCI-E form-factor without liquid cooling. They may have 600Ghash/second boards that can't be run in open-air cases

[DrG]

Trust me, their efficiency is not the issue this time (that was the 2013 failed promise).  The issue currently is their boards are pulling too much power and burning out.  Apparently their engineers at the zoo are busy throwing poo.

BFL advertised a 600GH/s device.  Unlike their last go around they can't just give you smaller units like they did with the minirig.  Most people only have 1 PCIe slot per machine that could handle that much heat.  So they are forced to try to cram 600GH/s onto a PCIe card.  It is doable if done by professional.  But BFL would have to find some professionals since they can't even handle their own PR mascot correctly.

Assuming it draws 1W/Ghash, there is no way they are going to be able to cool in in the PCI-E form-factor without liquid cooling. They may have 600Ghash/second boards that can't be run in open-air cases

They would need to run close to 0.5W/GH/s to get close to the level where they can use video card style blower fans.  Know them they're running well over 1W/GH/s so the only way to dump that much heat that quickly is through water or oil.

[InwardContour]

Trust me, their efficiency is not the issue this time (that was the 2013 failed promise).  The issue currently is their boards are pulling too much power and burning out.  Apparently their engineers at the zoo are busy throwing poo.

BFL advertised a 600GH/s device.  Unlike their last go around they can't just give you smaller units like they did with the minirig.  Most people only have 1 PCIe slot per machine that could handle that much heat.  So they are forced to try to cram 600GH/s onto a PCIe card.  It is doable if done by professional.  But BFL would have to find some professionals since they can't even handle their own PR mascot correctly.

Assuming it draws 1W/Ghash, there is no way they are going to be able to cool in in the PCI-E form-factor without liquid cooling. They may have 600Ghash/second boards that can't be run in open-air cases

They likely did not think these kind of details all the way through when they were in the development stage and were taking money for preorders. 

[DrG]

Trust me, their efficiency is not the issue this time (that was the 2013 failed promise).  The issue currently is their boards are pulling too much power and burning out.  Apparently their engineers at the zoo are busy throwing poo.

BFL advertised a 600GH/s device.  Unlike their last go around they can't just give you smaller units like they did with the minirig.  Most people only have 1 PCIe slot per machine that could handle that much heat.  So they are forced to try to cram 600GH/s onto a PCIe card.  It is doable if done by professional.  But BFL would have to find some professionals since they can't even handle their own PR mascot correctly.

Assuming it draws 1W/Ghash, there is no way they are going to be able to cool in in the PCI-E form-factor without liquid cooling. They may have 600Ghash/second boards that can't be run in open-air cases

They likely did not think these kind of details all the way through when they were in the development stage and were taking money for preorders. 

The problem lies in that their "engineers" have enough training to be able to do some basic design but not enough common sense to work on a project.  They had the same problem for 65nm where they estimated and advertised 1Watt/GH/s and then they came out with 4-5Watt/GH/s.  The SC Single was supposed to be the 60 watt coffee warmer and the Jalapenos were supposed to be USB drives.  The end result was almost 1/2 a magnitude off.

It's a vicious cycle of incompetence at the top (management) feeding incompetence at the base (production and design).

[QuiveringGibbage]

I did pause before accepting the offer, I was wondering what the consequences were. c'mon? No commercial entity would willingly give away free "money" unless there are commercial gains. By accepting the 12 months 600GHs Cloud contract, what options have I limited my self to??

My original purchase was not the Monarch. I took the upgraded option from 50GHs BFL Singles (x2) to a 600GHs Monarch. Due to further h/w delays, BFL doubled my order as compensation. An additional Monarch was put at the back of the delivery que. I wonder if I'll get the physical h/w before BFL offers me the 2nd Monarch, as another 1 year Cloud contract.

So, what happens after my one year contract ends and BFL still hasn't delivered? Hey, maybe there will be an option for Monarch owners to upgrade to the 1THs Imperial Monarch, but by having accepted the Cloud, have I excluded my self?

Not 'happy',
QG

Code:

Dear Jason,

Thanks for being a Butterfly Labs customer. Your patience and loyalty are 
greatly appreciated.

While we wait for the 1TH revision of the PCB to make it through manufacturing, 
we have a supply of boards that do not meet the desired specs and thus are not 
suitable to be shipped directly to customers. However, with this limited 
quantity of boards, we can deliver processing power remotely to some customers.

Although we are under no legal obligation to do so, as a courtesy to customers 
who have been waiting the longest, we will provision these boards in a hosted 
environment (BFL Cloud Mining facilities), equal to the original processing 
power you ordered. Cloud Mining will be deployed in queue order and since you 
are receiving this email, you are eligible at no cost to you (we pick up the tab 
for hosting and electricity). Once the new 1TH boards arrive and assembly and 
delivery has begun, we will ship your full original order plus previously 
announced upgrade, and free Cloud Mining will be terminated.

If you are interested in receiving Cloud Mining while we wait for board 
revisions, click the link below to activate your free temporary Cloud Mining 
account.

Activate Cloud Mining 
<link removed>

BFL Cloud Mining

[Searing]

You probably won't ever see your initial investment back, but at least you have 600GH/s mining for you right now that is hosted and looks like it has excellent uptime.

what are the people hosting now 1st batch paid 4695.00 usd if i remember right then like 50 bucks for the wire xfer if you went that route...for a 'cloud mining' 600gh now that will make 'less" at this point in time then 1 BTC (guess but a close guess)

also from an august 2013 it is july 2014 and they STILL can't get a product out

and right now out the door in to the wilds of shipping in 48hrs an antminer S3 at a 'easily' obtainable in my view 504gh at say 375 watts for the fine price of 0.074 btc last I looked or as of now exactly that is in usd $464.07 with supposed arrival no later then July 20th er this is 2nd batch me thinks....does not include shipping i think

but still compare that to your 'cloud hashing till we ship offer' from BFL likely in lieu of a real refund

so that means right now (if you managed to get a refund from BFL) you could get $4695.00 plus $50 wire xfer so total ant miners you could get at 504gh (w/o shipping trying to be exact and fair here) exactly 10.22 504 antminer units by July 20th for a total of 5.04TH of course elec would be 3750 watts plus you need say sep power supplies say 5 1200i's maybe at 350 each (guessing)

so there are expenses...but they options above WOULD EXIST IF YOU COULD ONLY GET THAT DAMN REFUND AS PROMISED

(which again in my view me thinks will not be an option when they get to your spot in the 'we will GH host for you" part of the order line....

what a farce

you can go further if you simply just bought coin with the BFL GH hosting option maybe you'd make 1 BTC (guess)

buying coin with your initial 1st in line above w/wire xfer $50 fee of $4745.00 above in just coin again that IF YOU ACTUALLY COULD GET YOUR REFUND would be
at this point in time a flat out @462.22 again 10.26 BTC

heh so you'd be better off buying btc at this point but any I mean any any any option is better then BFL's lame cloud hashing 600gh offer (or maybe only option not sure) at the price you paid at the front of the line of $4745.00 for an original (we taped out in aug 2013 heh) 600gh monarch

that still has not shipped and again it is July 2014

man it is nice I got my 8.5k back more by fluke/luck then any skill on my part ..and I hope you guys get your refund...but i suspect you are as likley to get an email that you got 600gh of hashing as their fufillment of the the promised hashing (10 months late) rather then them giving you any more $$$ heck it makes more sense for them to do antminer s3 they bought and hash for you till they get the junk out that don't work then keep or resell the antminers...then refund your $$$

again consumer protection in the usa is dead this shoulda been taken care of last year if our laws had any clout imho

anyway hope I'm wrong or the pressure is intense on BFL from someone to give refunds...but I see this as a way for them to wiggle out of you ever getting equip

Searing




soooooo  screwed.....

[ALToids]

I did pause before accepting the offer, I was wondering what the consequences were. c'mon? No commercial entity would willingly give away free "money" unless there are commercial gains. By accepting the 12 months 600GHs Cloud contract, what options have I limited my self to??

My original purchase was not the Monarch. I took the upgraded option from 50GHs BFL Singles (x2) to a 600GHs Monarch. Due to further h/w delays, BFL doubled my order as compensation. An additional Monarch was put at the back of the delivery que. I wonder if I'll get the physical h/w before BFL offers me the 2nd Monarch, as another 1 year Cloud contract.

So, what happens after my one year contract ends and BFL still hasn't delivered? Hey, maybe there will be an option for Monarch owners to upgrade to the 1THs Imperial Monarch, but by having accepted the Cloud, have I excluded my self?

Not 'happy',
QG

Code:

Dear Jason,

Thanks for being a Butterfly Labs customer. Your patience and loyalty are 
greatly appreciated.

While we wait for the 1TH revision of the PCB to make it through manufacturing, 
we have a supply of boards that do not meet the desired specs and thus are not 
suitable to be shipped directly to customers. However, with this limited 
quantity of boards, we can deliver processing power remotely to some customers.

Although we are under no legal obligation to do so, as a courtesy to customers 
who have been waiting the longest, we will provision these boards in a hosted 
environment (BFL Cloud Mining facilities), equal to the original processing 
power you ordered. Cloud Mining will be deployed in queue order and since you 
are receiving this email, you are eligible at no cost to you (we pick up the tab 
for hosting and electricity). Once the new 1TH boards arrive and assembly and 
delivery has begun, we will ship your full original order plus previously 
announced upgrade, and free Cloud Mining will be terminated.

If you are interested in receiving Cloud Mining while we wait for board 
revisions, click the link below to activate your free temporary Cloud Mining 
account.

Activate Cloud Mining 
<link removed>

BFL Cloud Mining

After 1 year pretty much any mining eq will be near obsolete.  The singles they shipped last year are now near useless just like the Avalons from last year.  Just take the cloud mining for 1 year and be happy you don't have to pay for electricity.  That is sadly your best option with BFL.

[Searing]

I did pause before accepting the offer, I was wondering what the consequences were. c'mon? No commercial entity would willingly give away free "money" unless there are commercial gains. By accepting the 12 months 600GHs Cloud contract, what options have I limited my self to??

My original purchase was not the Monarch. I took the upgraded option from 50GHs BFL Singles (x2) to a 600GHs Monarch. Due to further h/w delays, BFL doubled my order as compensation. An additional Monarch was put at the back of the delivery que. I wonder if I'll get the physical h/w before BFL offers me the 2nd Monarch, as another 1 year Cloud contract.

So, what happens after my one year contract ends and BFL still hasn't delivered? Hey, maybe there will be an option for Monarch owners to upgrade to the 1THs Imperial Monarch, but by having accepted the Cloud, have I excluded my self?

Not 'happy',
QG

Code:

Dear Jason,

Thanks for being a Butterfly Labs customer. Your patience and loyalty are 
greatly appreciated.

While we wait for the 1TH revision of the PCB to make it through manufacturing, 
we have a supply of boards that do not meet the desired specs and thus are not 
suitable to be shipped directly to customers. However, with this limited 
quantity of boards, we can deliver processing power remotely to some customers.

Although we are under no legal obligation to do so, as a courtesy to customers 
who have been waiting the longest, we will provision these boards in a hosted 
environment (BFL Cloud Mining facilities), equal to the original processing 
power you ordered. Cloud Mining will be deployed in queue order and since you 
are receiving this email, you are eligible at no cost to you (we pick up the tab 
for hosting and electricity). Once the new 1TH boards arrive and assembly and 
delivery has begun, we will ship your full original order plus previously 
announced upgrade, and free Cloud Mining will be terminated.

If you are interested in receiving Cloud Mining while we wait for board 
revisions, click the link below to activate your free temporary Cloud Mining 
account.

Activate Cloud Mining 
<link removed>

BFL Cloud Mining

After 1 year pretty much any mining eq will be near obsolete.  The singles they shipped last year are now near useless just like the Avalons from last year.  Just take the cloud mining for 1 year and be happy you don't have to pay for electricity.  That is sadly your best option with BFL.

so you have no chance of getting the refund like me for asking after the 6 month and 1 day not delivered option anymore? or if you are not at 6 months and 1 day how close are you...could you squeak under the wire?

me I'd go the class action suit before anything i mean we are talking at todays rates 625 usd for 1 btc which if you got the unit in the mail on monday and/or they suddenly let you cloud hash 600gh to get off the hook. I currently have an oct 2013 570gh knc jupiter and i'm looking at best i can figure less then 1 BTC left to get....i'd gamble that last 1 BTC at 625 bucks on the class action suit or the FTC or the 6 month and 1 day deadline not being met..before I'd take any deal where I might get 1 frigging BTC back ..better to lose it all in a spectacular manner then bend my knee to those assholes...shoot for the refund...keep your pride...again imho

I sure would not let them take all that $$$ I  paid in the past for 1 BTC now I'd rather go down swinging and lose that last BTC I MIGHT make if equip magically appeared or they suddenly offered you more vaporware and/or GH hashing at 600gh at their last year prices..but wait and resist might also be an option ..stuff may move on the FTC front or the class action

Better imho opinion to go down with dignity in the following manner...........you'd be screwed but you'd have your pride!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xN-bgcjp0g

BFL no man's land indeed...

Searing

[ALToids]

While I agree with Searing, you have to wonder what will happen WHEN (not if) BFL goes bankrupt.  Clearly it's not a shock to them that so many people hate the company.  Their forums magically go down for a couple days and posts critical of them are thoroughly expunged.

If Josh did a good job of playing hide the sausage, which is all he is good for, then you will not be getting anything in a class action other than vindication of know you were scammed.  BFL's creditors will get first pickings at any assets they have, the lawyers will get paid, and you will get a $7 check.

If you think the class action will succeed in procuring funds the reject the cloud mining.

[InwardContour]

While I agree with Searing, you have to wonder what will happen WHEN (not if) BFL goes bankrupt.  Clearly it's not a shock to them that so many people hate the company.  Their forums magically go down for a couple days and posts critical of them are thoroughly expunged.

If Josh did a good job of playing hide the sausage, which is all he is good for, then you will not be getting anything in a class action other than vindication of know you were scammed.  BFL's creditors will get first pickings at any assets they have, the lawyers will get paid, and you will get a $7 check.

If you think the class action will succeed in procuring funds the reject the cloud mining.

I don't think there is very much risk of them going bankrupt. The cost to produce the miners is very small, their major expense is R&D. I would expect everyone to receive the miners they ordered and paid for eventually. The key work is eventually as the miners will be worth much less by the time they are received.

[Searing]

While I agree with Searing, you have to wonder what will happen WHEN (not if) BFL goes bankrupt.  Clearly it's not a shock to them that so many people hate the company.  Their forums magically go down for a couple days and posts critical of them are thoroughly expunged.

If Josh did a good job of playing hide the sausage, which is all he is good for, then you will not be getting anything in a class action other than vindication of know you were scammed.  BFL's creditors will get first pickings at any assets they have, the lawyers will get paid, and you will get a $7 check.

If you think the class action will succeed in procuring funds the reject the cloud mining.

I don't think there is very much risk of them going bankrupt. The cost to produce the miners is very small, their major expense is R&D. I would expect everyone to receive the miners they ordered and paid for eventually. The key work is eventually as the miners will be worth much less by the time they are received.

going bankrupt is the end game plan by BFL..let BFL corp take the fall .show all nice paid recipts to internal company mining pool (hey legal even if equip gotten before us) and personal miners (also legal testing by employees) also salaries inflated other personal assets loans to them that will get wiped when BFL goes down

if they planned this correctly they will be protected by BFL corp taking the fall and be golden

and you don't have to tell me about class action suits my pension fund which went bankrupt 'day trading' my fund (was a AAA fund scudder flag was the name) I lost 14,000 usd
got a class action check from gov't and etc for 10.38 usd framed it check is still attached life lesson

so yeah BFL is probably gonna walk and Josh will stay rich ..it is an unfair world (and BCP19 will get 99 weeks of extened unemployment to yell that BFL an't so bad on these forums
when he loses his job at BFL he has stated he works for)

the fickle finger of fate having 'f*c*ed" moves on!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYG6L9jcFOE

Searing

[ALToids]

As Searing said BFL's end game is to file brankruptcy and hope they can just say sorry we failed.  They will have to cook the books and make it look like they paid for parts and fabrication when in fact they would be sending payment to themselves and could easily purchase some BTC and hide it from investigators.

As noted by Searing's paltry $10 check, the compensation will not be worth it.  Knowing Josh can never drop a bar of soap is what the customers should be hoping for.

[Searing]

As Searing said BFL's end game is to file brankruptcy and hope they can just say sorry we failed.  They will have to cook the books and make it look like they paid for parts and fabrication when in fact they would be sending payment to themselves and could easily purchase some BTC and hide it from investigators.

As noted by Searing's paltry $10 check, the compensation will not be worth it.  Knowing Josh can never drop a bar of soap is what the customers should be hoping for.

If they were smart (doubtful) everything that went early to a big ph farm investor (say 65mm chips to them first) or to the eclipse PH farm (sep corp)
would all be noted..verified and paid at the time they 'bumped us in line' to get the equip first.....ie it ran to hot for consumer use only could be used
in a data center thus we sold it to eclipse or to our employees for personal use etc

they likely an't that smart but if the corp takes the fall and you really did simply get stuff as an insider as an employee or investor and have records to
show you paid etc the correct prices...with a little book shuffling would be hard to tell if fraud or just an attempt to keep the bfl corp as a working
business in that they (at the time) could say 'we have not moved a product for 10-12 months and could not get  the monarch to work for consumers

so this was our fudge plan...see sold to PH farms and eclipse but all on the up and up cause needed revenue to keep doors open to finish consumer
products etc

likely they an't that smart (now KNC said they were not gonna make modules to let their users mine from nov to feb w/o driving difficulty up..but they
were really using $$ made from 28mm jupiter/saturn sales to build a big PH farm (also diff corp) and paid etc..but was internal and not offered to
t he public...flat out lied...w/o any consequences

anyway they 'could' pull something like this and claim they needed to due to ineptness in getting a product out and desperate

but likely they are not smart enough to have done so...just saying this is my 'end game' nightmare ..i get on here one day and they settle for some $$$
keep eclipse and all personal assets w/o having to claim any fraud/etc and bankrupt BFL and walk roflao at us ..their supposed customers

again I got a refund not sure why I get so wound up......must be PTSD from the 1 year and 20 day wait and mind games

but yeah again they likely are too stupid to pull the above off (I mean they have Josh as a spokesperson)  but my nightmare vision of BFL walking and
getting away with it

Searing

[ALToids]

Well that's the same crap that General Motors tried to pull with the recent car recalls and lawsuits from death.  They stated that the current GM is not responsible because the old GM was responsible and they are a new company.  Feel like buying GM?

BFL will try to keep EMC and their private farms as separate from this shell game.  A good corporate lawyer or AG can easily dispatch that - time will tell.

[InwardContour]

While I agree with Searing, you have to wonder what will happen WHEN (not if) BFL goes bankrupt.  Clearly it's not a shock to them that so many people hate the company.  Their forums magically go down for a couple days and posts critical of them are thoroughly expunged.

If Josh did a good job of playing hide the sausage, which is all he is good for, then you will not be getting anything in a class action other than vindication of know you were scammed.  BFL's creditors will get first pickings at any assets they have, the lawyers will get paid, and you will get a $7 check.

If you think the class action will succeed in procuring funds the reject the cloud mining.

I don't think there is very much risk of them going bankrupt. The cost to produce the miners is very small, their major expense is R&D. I would expect everyone to receive the miners they ordered and paid for eventually. The key work is eventually as the miners will be worth much less by the time they are received.

going bankrupt is the end game plan by BFL..let BFL corp take the fall .show all nice paid recipts to internal company mining pool (hey legal even if equip gotten before us) and personal miners (also legal testing by employees) also salaries inflated other personal assets loans to them that will get wiped when BFL goes down

if they planned this correctly they will be protected by BFL corp taking the fall and be golden

and you don't have to tell me about class action suits my pension fund which went bankrupt 'day trading' my fund (was a AAA fund scudder flag was the name) I lost 14,000 usd
got a class action check from gov't and etc for 10.38 usd framed it check is still attached life lesson

so yeah BFL is probably gonna walk and Josh will stay rich ..it is an unfair world (and BCP19 will get 99 weeks of extened unemployment to yell that BFL an't so bad on these forums
when he loses his job at BFL he has stated he works for)

the fickle finger of fate having 'f*c*ed" moves on!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYG6L9jcFOE

Searing

Why would they plan to go bankrupt like this? A corporation stands to make more money if they are a going concern