Tally stick lasted 720 yrs. Was it the worlds 1st and most successful digital Cy

[qwerty555]

First (National /widely used) and most successful (to date) digital currency..the Tally stick   ?

http://www.iamthewitness.com/books/Andrew.Carrington.Hitchcock/The.History.of.the.Money.Changers.htm

King Henry I succeeds King William II to the throne of England. During his reign he decided to take the power the money changers had over the people, and he did this by creating a completely new form of money that took the form of a stick! This stick was called, a "talley stick," and ended up being the longest lasting form of currency, lasting 726 years until 1826 (

https://www.google.com.ph/search?q=tally+stick+history&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=SZ2vU9zlM8mE8Qfl8oGIAQ

[cryptopaths]

First (National /widely used) and most successful (to date) digital currency..the Tally stick   ?

http://www.iamthewitness.com/books/Andrew.Carrington.Hitchcock/The.History.of.the.Money.Changers.htm

King Henry I succeeds King William II to the throne of England. During his reign he decided to take the power the money changers had over the people, and he did this by creating a completely new form of money that took the form of a stick! This stick was called, a "talley stick," and ended up being the longest lasting form of currency, lasting 726 years until 1826 (

https://www.google.com.ph/search?q=tally+stick+history&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=SZ2vU9zlM8mE8Qfl8oGIAQ

Do you understand what a digital currency is?

[cbeast]

Bitcoin is much like the tally stick. In fact, it's a good analogy when explaining it to bankers. Then you can throw in Yap Stones.

[gondel]

A tally (or tally stick or BTC) was an ancient memory aid device used to record and document numbers, quantities, or even messages. Tally sticks (BTC) first appear as animal bones carved with notches, in the Upper Paleolithic; a notable example is the Ishango Bone. Historical reference is made by Pliny the Elder (AD 23–79) about the best wood to use for tallies, and by Marco Polo (1254–1324) who mentions the use of the tally(BTC) in China. Tallies(BTC) have been used for numerous purposes such as messaging and scheduling, and especially in financial and legal transactions, to the point of being currency.

[acs267]

I don't think you understand exactly what 'digital' means, however, I shall tell you:

Most likely, if the Internet wasn't alive, then it's not a digital currency. Thank you.

[qwerty555]

I don't think you understand exactly what 'digital' means, however, I shall tell you:

Most likely, if the Internet wasn't alive, then it's not a digital currency. Thank you.

whilst you are correct that the definition (which could be amended) includes that it is electronically created
a) it was clearly a currency for many centuries

b) Obviously it was digital

dig•it•al (ˈdɪdʒ ɪ tl)

adj.
1. of, pertaining to, or resembling a digit or finger.
2. manipulated with a finger: a digital switch.
3. having digits or digitlike parts.
4. of, pertaining to, or using data in the form of numerical digits: a digital recording.
5. displaying a readout in numerical digits rather than by a pointer or hands on a dial: a digital clock.
6. Computers. involving or using numerical digits expressed in a scale of notation to represent discretely all variables occurring in a problem.
7. of, pertaining to, or using numerical calculations.
8. available in electronic form; readable and manipulable by computer.
n.
9. one of the keys or finger levers of keyboard instruments.
10. a digital device, as a clock or watch.

c) it was virtual

d) it was a medium of exchange

So we could consider the tally stick a digital currency  pre dating electricity/internet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_currency

Apart from the "electronically created" part of the def. which was not an option in 1100A.D.  it fullfills the virtual and medium of exchange aspects which are arguably the more important part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_of_exchange

Digital currency is a form of virtual currency or medium of exchange

and its aims and effect, to remove power and abuse from money changers/bankers is consistent with the aims of todays virtual and crypto currency  

additionally the conclusions of the author in the  2006 book may well be altered with the rise of cryptos since 2009

[spinf]

I don't think you understand exactly what 'digital' means, however, I shall tell you:

Most likely, if the Internet wasn't alive, then it's not a digital currency. Thank you.

whilst you are correct that the definition (which could be amended) includes that it is electronically created
a) it was clearly a currency for many centuries

b) Obviously it was digital

dig•it•al (ˈdɪdʒ ɪ tl)

adj.
1. of, pertaining to, or resembling a digit or finger.
2. manipulated with a finger: a digital switch.
3. having digits or digitlike parts.
4. of, pertaining to, or using data in the form of numerical digits: a digital recording.
5. displaying a readout in numerical digits rather than by a pointer or hands on a dial: a digital clock.
6. Computers. involving or using numerical digits expressed in a scale of notation to represent discretely all variables occurring in a problem.
7. of, pertaining to, or using numerical calculations.
8. available in electronic form; readable and manipulable by computer.
n.
9. one of the keys or finger levers of keyboard instruments.
10. a digital device, as a clock or watch.

c) it was virtual

d) it was a medium of exchange

So we could consider the tally stick a digital currency  pre dating electricity/internet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_currency

Apart from the "electronically created" part of the def. which was not an option in 1100A.D.  it fullfills the virtual and medium of exchange aspects which are arguably the more important part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_of_exchange

Digital currency is a form of virtual currency or medium of exchange

and its aims and effect, to remove power and abuse from money changers/bankers is consistent with the aims of todays virtual and crypto currency  

additionally the conclusions of the author in the  2006 book may well be altered with the rise of cryptos since 2009

+1
clearly digital to me as well.
however, not really a crypto currency

[qwerty555]

I would agree..not a cryptocurrency as the code on the tally stick is not secret

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency


Cryptography def


noun
1.
the science or study of the techniques of secret writing, especially code and cipher systems, methods, and the like.
Compare cryptanalysis (def 2).
2.
the procedures, processes, methods, etc., of making and using secret writing, as codes or ciphers.
3.
anything written in a secret code, cipher, or the like.

[Meuh6879]

Most likely, if the Internet wasn't alive, then it's not a digital currency. Thank you.

and you don't have bank, credit card or Wifi ... and smartphone.  we can continu like this ... unlimity time.

[CIYAM]

I would agree..not a cryptocurrency as the code on the tally stick is not secret

There is *nothing encrypted* in the Bitcoin blockchain - so am not sure why secret is relevant here.

I think the term "crypto" is not entirely well understood when it pertains to something like Bitcoin in particular.

[bg002h]

I don't think you understand exactly what 'digital' means, however, I shall tell you:

Most likely, if the Internet wasn't alive, then it's not a digital currency. Thank you.

The tally stick's tally is indeed digital. It was a currency. It wasn't electronic or transmitted digitally.

[herzmeister]

The tally stick rather is the analog equivalent to Ripple (the original concept of 2004), or a LETS, i.e. a debt/obligations recording instrument.

The analog equivalent to Bitcoin would rather be seashells or indeed the Yap stones.

[tidda]

Is there a silver 'tally stick' equivalent?

[doof]

doge stick?  wow

[cbeast]

Is there a silver 'tally stick' equivalent?

They were payable in gold, silver, or whatever was the unit of account in the region. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tally_stick

[Dogtanian]

I don't think you understand exactly what 'digital' means, however, I shall tell you:

Most likely, if the Internet wasn't alive, then it's not a digital currency. Thank you.

The tally stick's tally is indeed digital. It was a currency. It wasn't electronic or transmitted digitally.

Most people who refer to bitcoin as a digital currency do so because it's transferred digitally, not because it's comprised of digits. Isn't all currencies comprised of digits? Since a money stick cannot be transmitted or replicated digitally I'd say it's not a digital currency.

[qwerty555]

I don't think you understand exactly what 'digital' means, however, I shall tell you:

Most likely, if the Internet wasn't alive, then it's not a digital currency. Thank you.

The tally stick's tally is indeed digital. It was a currency. It wasn't electronic or transmitted digitally.

Most people who refer to bitcoin as a digital currency do so because it's transferred digitally, not because it's comprised of digits. Isn't all currencies comprised of digits? Since a money stick cannot be transmitted or replicated digitally I'd say it's not a digital currency.

All fiat is also digital as it uses numbers so you are correct and part of the current widely accepted definition includes that it should be created electronically(and transmitted?) which a tally stick is not. However an  important part of the definition for me is that it was stored, a virtual currency and a medium of exchange(with centralized recording , somewhat revolutionary for the day) which the tally was .that is 3 of the 4 requirements to the definition.....

Digital currency is a form of virtual currency or medium of exchange that is electronically created and stored

Whilst it does not fully fit with todays definition because of the "electronically created" part of the def. it arguably has enough (stored/virtual/medium of exchange)to consider it a forerunner to modern day digital currencies.

in fact it did take electrical energy to activate the nerves in the hand to cut the notches in the stick so using a loooooong stretch of the imagination it was created electronically .  The widely held belief that it should be through a computer and be able to be transmitted electronically is not strictly in the definition.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_currency

electronic money or e-money definition is the one that fits more closely with the use of computers and internet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_money

[devphp]

Tally sticks were not decentralized though. However, given the route Bitcoin is going, yeah, Bitcoin = tally stick

[allthingsluxury]

Wow, very interesting observations. I've studied the tally stick in the past, but never made these connections with bitcoin. I agree and disagree with quite a few points, but regardless, its very interesting.

[herzmeister]

Tally sticks were not decentralized though. However, given the route Bitcoin is going, yeah, Bitcoin = tally stick

They were. No central authority necessarily needed. A direct contract between two parties. Verification provided by nature. You could see from the structure of the wood if the two pieces fit together.

[devphp]

Tally sticks were not decentralized though. However, given the route Bitcoin is going, yeah, Bitcoin = tally stick

They were. No central authority necessarily needed. A direct contract between two parties. Verification provided by nature. You could see from the structure of the wood if the two pieces fit together.

I meant the tally stick that was used to pay taxes to the king with and which was accepted as a form of currency in all of England.

If some two parties made their own tally stick, nobody but these two parties would accept it.

The tally sticks of the king were backed by the king's willingness to accept them as a tax payment option. Those were not decentralized.

[BitcoinBarrel]

Those Rai stones are interesting, and what I find peculiar is how everyone seems to think they "Carved" the stones out of Limestone. In fact, the majority of Large Stone formations like the Pyramids are believed to be carved out of solid rock.

Does this make sense? When Limestone is used to make concrete and can be formed easily?

Look at those Rai stones and the center hole is perfect while many of them are irregular shaped disks. If they were experts at carving stone then why would they make them so imperfect?

It's because they poured the concrete around a pole and it dried.

[cbeast]

Those Rai stones are interesting, and what I find peculiar is how everyone seems to think they "Carved" the stones out of Limestone. In fact, the majority of Large Stone formations like the Pyramids are believed to be carved out of solid rock.

Does this make sense? When Limestone is used to make concrete and can be formed easily?

Look at those Rai stones and the center hole is perfect while many of them are irregular shaped disks. If they were experts at carving stone then why would they make them so imperfect?

It's because they poured the concrete around a pole and it dried.

There is no evidence that they had concrete technology. A center hole is round if you drill.

[qwerty555]

It is true that the tally was used to pay taxes but it was also used in trade to buy goods/lend money

What I find particularly interesting is the length of time this system was used (700 yrs )and that its main opponents and the cause of its eventual demise were the bankers/money lenders who preferred to create "money" with little or no assets to back it up ( out of thin air) in order to earn interest on lending the "magic money" . A system that persists to this day and the greed has turned what used to be  creating money to a multiple of 10 times the assets held to something nearer 1,000 times or worse with derivatives, rehypothecation of clients assets and other complicated (so the layman doesn't understand he's at high risk) financial instruments.



Split tally

The split tally was a technique which became common in medieval Europe, which was constantly short of money (coins) and predominantly illiterate, in order to record bilateral exchange and debts. A stick (squared hazelwood sticks were most common) was marked with a system of notches and then split lengthwise. This way the two halves both record the same notches and each party to the transaction received one half of the marked stick as proof. Later this technique was refined in various ways and became virtually tamper proof. One of the refinements was to make the two halves of the stick of different lengths. The longer part was called stock and was given to the party which had advanced money (or other items) to the receiver. The shorter portion of the stick was called foil and was given to the party which had received the funds or goods. Using this technique each of the parties had an identifiable record of the transaction. The natural irregularities in the surfaces of the tallies where they were split would mean that only the original two halves would fit back together perfectly, and so would verify that they were matching halves of the same transaction. If one party tried to unilaterally change the value of his half of the tally stick by adding more notches, those notches would not be on the other tally stick and would be revealed as an attempted forgery. The split tally was accepted as legal proof in medieval courts and the Napoleonic Code (1804) still makes reference to the tally stick in Article 1333.[4] Along the Danube and in Switzerland the tally was still used in the 20th century in rural economies.
Split tally in England

The most prominent and best recorded use of the split tally stick (or "nick-stick"[5][6]) being used as a form of currency was when King Henry I initiated the tally stick system in or around 1100 in medieval England. He would only accept the tally stick for taxes, and it was a tool of the Exchequer for the collection of taxes by local sheriffs (tax farmers "farming the shire") for seven centuries. The split tally of the Exchequer was in continuous use until 1826. In 1834, the tallies themselves were ordered to be burned in a stove in the Houses of Parliament, but the fire went out of control setting the building afire.

The system of tally marks of the Exchequer is described in The Dialogue Concerning the Exchequer (see external links below) as follows:

    The manner of cutting is as follows. At the top of the tally a cut is made, the thickness of the palm of the hand, to represent a thousand pounds; then a hundred pounds by a cut the breadth of a thumb; twenty pounds, the breadth of the little finger; a single pound, the width of a swollen barleycorn; a shilling rather narrower; then a penny is marked by a single cut without removing any wood.

[cbeast]

There's no reason an electronic Bitcoin/Colored Coin version of a tally stick couldn't be made. It's not so much about the form (though it could look like a magic wand), but the simplicity and ease of use would help Bitcoin adoption.

[BitchicksHusband]

Apart from the "electronically created" part of the def. which was not an option in 1100A.D.

Nonsense.  There were electric batteries found in Pharaoh's tombs in Egypt.  They were just slackers. 

[cbeast]

Apart from the "electronically created" part of the def. which was not an option in 1100A.D.

Nonsense.  There were electric batteries found in Pharaoh's tombs in Egypt.  They were just slackers. 

Maybe they had a steampunk tally stick.

[bg002h]

I don't think you understand exactly what 'digital' means, however, I shall tell you:

Most likely, if the Internet wasn't alive, then it's not a digital currency. Thank you.

The tally stick's tally is indeed digital. It was a currency. It wasn't electronic or transmitted digitally.

Most people who refer to bitcoin as a digital currency do so because it's transferred digitally, not because it's comprised of digits. Isn't all currencies comprised of digits? Since a money stick cannot be transmitted or replicated digitally I'd say it's not a digital currency.

Weight of gold is a continuous variable. Marks on a stick are quantized.

[qwerty555]

Could the true origin of nick= to steal .............be from persons adding notches(nicks) to their tally stick in an attempt to steal money?

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=nick

nick (v.) Look up nick at Dictionary.com
    1520s, "to make a notch in," from nick (n.). Sense of "to steal" is from 1869, probably from earlier slang sense of "to catch, take unawares, arrest" (1620s). The precise sense connection is unclear. Related: Nicked; nicking.

and on a completely unconnected but entertaining note..I found this list of British slang while looking for the origin of nick

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_slang

D

darbies
    Handcuffs.[95]
debag
    To remove someone's trousers by force.[96]
dekko
    Look. From the Hindi, dekho.[97]
dick
    1. Fellow. 2. Penis.[98]
dip
    a pickpocket.[99]
div
    idiot (prison slang)[100]
do one's nut
    Become enraged.[101]
doddle
    Something simple or easy to accomplish.[102]
dodgy
    Something risky, difficult or dangerous. A 'dodgy deal' for example.[102]
dog
    1. A rough or unattractive woman. 2. A fellow.[102]
dog's bollocks
    1. Anything obvious ("Sticks out like the dog's bollocks").[103] 2. Something especially good or first rate ("It's the dog's bollocks", sometimes abbreviated to, "it's the dog's").[103]

[BitcoinBarrel]

Those Rai stones are interesting, and what I find peculiar is how everyone seems to think they "Carved" the stones out of Limestone. In fact, the majority of Large Stone formations like the Pyramids are believed to be carved out of solid rock.

Does this make sense? When Limestone is used to make concrete and can be formed easily?

Look at those Rai stones and the center hole is perfect while many of them are irregular shaped disks. If they were experts at carving stone then why would they make them so imperfect?

It's because they poured the concrete around a pole and it dried.

There is no evidence that they had concrete technology. A center hole is round if you drill.

The stones themselves are the evidence. Concrete is made from Limestone and they quarried the limestone from the islands 400 miles away.

Tell me these don't look like poured concrete slabs:

[Whtwabbit]

What about "Got the short end of the stick" the short stick was the debtor

and "To tally up" (add up)

Both originated from the Tally stick

[qwerty555]

What about "Got the short end of the stick" the short stick was the debtor

and "To tally up" (add up)

Both originated from the Tally stick

Correct....I suspect all of those and more originate from a system that lasted 7 centuries.

[Lethn]

Tally sticks were indeed used by Henry the 1st but the OP clearly doesn't have any idea of what he's talking about and yes a tally stick isn't a bloody digital currency, for it to be digital it has to be in a COMPUTER and they weren't invented back then.

Even though it is regularly perpetrated by people who want to sell it to you like with anything that does well, Gold and Silver have definitely been the most successful currencies in the past couple of thousand years, since people always regarded them as a store of value the precious metals never went away no matter how governments tried to mess with their national currencies just like now. You can't compare Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies with anything previously made because it is a brand new technology, the closest thing I have been able to find to them is P2P filesharing because it works a lot like that but instead of sharing internet connection speeds you're sharing computing power.

[Dogtanian]

Obviously there's two different definitions of a 'digital' currency being used here and obviously a tally stick is nothing like a cryptocurrency.

Apart from the "electronically created" part of the def. which was not an option in 1100A.D.

Nonsense.  There were electric batteries found in Pharaoh's tombs in Egypt.  They were just slackers. 

I think someone has been watching too much Ancient Aliens  .

[qwerty555]

I will not disagree that to consider the tally stick as a (fore runner to) digital currency is a bit of a leap but if use of a computer is now what is required, it appears that the tally stick was an early form of computer. a modern day computer is far more advanced and uses electricity but the definition does not state that a computer must be used. I do not dispute that the common usage of the term infers that it is created on a modern day computer and can be transmitted ( via internet). maybe the definition should be amended to include those parameters.

Devices have been used to aid computation for thousands of years, mostly using one-to-one correspondence with fingers. The earliest counting device was probably a form of tally stick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_computer#Ancient_era

if it is to be excluded the absence of it being "electronically created" is arguably stronger .

[cbeast]

Those Rai stones are interesting, and what I find peculiar is how everyone seems to think they "Carved" the stones out of Limestone. In fact, the majority of Large Stone formations like the Pyramids are believed to be carved out of solid rock.

Does this make sense? When Limestone is used to make concrete and can be formed easily?

Look at those Rai stones and the center hole is perfect while many of them are irregular shaped disks. If they were experts at carving stone then why would they make them so imperfect?

It's because they poured the concrete around a pole and it dried.

There is no evidence that they had concrete technology. A center hole is round if you drill.

The stones themselves are the evidence. Concrete is made from Limestone and they quarried the limestone from the islands 400 miles away.

Tell me these don't look like poured concrete slabs:

They don't. Besides, if they had concrete, then where are their ancient roads and office buildings?

[Gleb Gamow]

I don't think you understand exactly what 'digital' means, however, I shall tell you:

Most likely, if the Internet wasn't alive, then it's not a digital currency. Thank you.

But, now that we have the internet, we can develop and promote digital Tally Sticks based on PoW: The more trees cut down, the more TS in circulation. Miners will be replaced with harvesters.

As far as the TSBC (Tally Stick Block Chain) is concern, this...

[Gleb Gamow]

Those Rai stones are interesting, and what I find peculiar is how everyone seems to think they "Carved" the stones out of Limestone. In fact, the majority of Large Stone formations like the Pyramids are believed to be carved out of solid rock.

Does this make sense? When Limestone is used to make concrete and can be formed easily?

Look at those Rai stones and the center hole is perfect while many of them are irregular shaped disks. If they were experts at carving stone then why would they make them so imperfect?

It's because they poured the concrete around a pole and it dried.

There is no evidence that they had concrete technology. A center hole is round if you drill.

The stones themselves are the evidence. Concrete is made from Limestone and they quarried the limestone from the islands 400 miles away.

Tell me these don't look like poured concrete slabs:

They don't. Besides, if they had concrete, then where are their ancient roads and office buildings?

Building roads and office building take money and, as you can see, Yap was in short supply of currency, so they invented deflation instead.

[cbeast]

Those Rai stones are interesting, and what I find peculiar is how everyone seems to think they "Carved" the stones out of Limestone. In fact, the majority of Large Stone formations like the Pyramids are believed to be carved out of solid rock.

Does this make sense? When Limestone is used to make concrete and can be formed easily?

Look at those Rai stones and the center hole is perfect while many of them are irregular shaped disks. If they were experts at carving stone then why would they make them so imperfect?

It's because they poured the concrete around a pole and it dried.

There is no evidence that they had concrete technology. A center hole is round if you drill.

The stones themselves are the evidence. Concrete is made from Limestone and they quarried the limestone from the islands 400 miles away.

Tell me these don't look like poured concrete slabs:

They don't. Besides, if they had concrete, then where are their ancient roads and office buildings?

Building roads and office building take money and, as you can see, Yap was in short supply of currency, so they invented deflation instead.

[BitcoinBarrel]

Those Rai stones are interesting, and what I find peculiar is how everyone seems to think they "Carved" the stones out of Limestone. In fact, the majority of Large Stone formations like the Pyramids are believed to be carved out of solid rock.

Does this make sense? When Limestone is used to make concrete and can be formed easily?

Look at those Rai stones and the center hole is perfect while many of them are irregular shaped disks. If they were experts at carving stone then why would they make them so imperfect?

It's because they poured the concrete around a pole and it dried.

There is no evidence that they had concrete technology. A center hole is round if you drill.

The stones themselves are the evidence. Concrete is made from Limestone and they quarried the limestone from the islands 400 miles away.

Tell me these don't look like poured concrete slabs:

They don't. Besides, if they had concrete, then where are their ancient roads and office buildings?

Building roads and office building take money and, as you can see, Yap was in short supply of currency, so they invented deflation instead.

Are you sure they don't look like concrete?