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Author Topic: Bitcoin, copyright, profit  (Read 3240 times)
nebulus
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March 05, 2012, 01:05:04 AM
 #21

All of you are missing the point. China violates IP laws left and right. If you are tied up to dollars who is there to sue you? It seems like there is no such thing as international court that can say "China, bad!" I am considering bitcoin in this light. Your pie/apples examples are stupid, because no IP dealer would consider trading in a currency like that.

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nebulus
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March 05, 2012, 01:09:05 AM
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Forgot one thing...                          ArrrhhH!

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March 05, 2012, 01:32:14 AM
 #23

All of you are missing the point. China violates IP laws left and right. If you are tied up to dollars who is there to sue you? It seems like there is no such thing as international court that can say "China, bad!" I am considering bitcoin in this light. Your pie/apples examples are stupid, because no IP dealer would consider trading in a currency like that.

So what? The Chinese are not doing anything bad.

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March 05, 2012, 01:33:20 AM
 #24

All of you are missing the point. China violates IP laws left and right. If you are tied up to dollars who is there to sue you? It seems like there is no such thing as international court that can say "China, bad!" I am considering bitcoin in this light. Your pie/apples examples are stupid, because no IP dealer would consider trading in a currency like that.

what your missing is that china doesn't have the same IP laws as other jurisdictions, like the US for instance.

regardless of what you get, even if its bitcoin or apple pie, or even if you get nothing (as has been stated) in return for the IP, you are still accountable to the laws of the country you live in.  do you think you could stand on the corner selling copies of DVD's and software install discs you made on your computer just because you only accept bitcoin for them?

ARRRR!
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March 05, 2012, 02:11:05 AM
 #25

Your pie/apples examples are stupid, because no IP dealer would consider trading in a currency like that.

Hungry people deal in food.  This week North Korea agreed to trade something important for food.

Also, do you know what the big traded items are in the world?  Real value and large trading systems.  Coffee and orange juice are near the top of the pile, it's not just oil and gold that gets limelight.

I've traded my IP in currencies like that before (yum yum).  Maybe you should get better apple pie.
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March 05, 2012, 03:11:36 AM
 #26

All of you are missing the point. China violates IP laws left and right. If you are tied up to dollars who is there to sue you? It seems like there is no such thing as international court that can say "China, bad!" I am considering bitcoin in this light. Your pie/apples examples are stupid, because no IP dealer would consider trading in a currency like that.
People in China are getting away with violating IP laws, because those laws aren't Chinese laws.

That doesn't have anything to do with the currency. That has to do with where the people live, and what the laws are in that place.

If I'm in the US and I bootleg DVDs, and I get caught, I can be held liable for that, whether I sold them for dollars, yuan, ringgit, whatever. Or even if I was just giving them away. What matters is that I'm infringing, and that I live where it's illegal to do so.

If there is something that will make Bitcoin succeed, it is growth of utility - greater quantity and variety of goods and services offered for BTC. If there is something that will make Bitcoin fail, it is the culture of naive fools and conmen, the former convinced that BTC is a magic box that will turn them into millionaires, and the latter arriving by the busload to devour them.
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March 05, 2012, 04:34:57 AM
 #27

    I was thinking about a scenario where someone sells some IP for bitcoins. Is this still considered a legal offense if the IP is covered by trademark/copyright? Since countries do not recognize BTC as a currency, doesn't that make 'making profit from BTC' impossible? (considering relevant legal definitions). It seems to me like IP for BTC is a very exploitable area. Obviously, bitcoin is multinational and there is no unanimous copyright law for the world as well as some kind of enforcer. I have heard about some cases where China has "violated" a lot of US copyright laws and US can't do anything about it. Has anyone else ever thought of that? I am interested to hear from both fronts: pro and anti-copyright. Looking forward to your insight.
    Let me present two scenarios for your consideration.

    • Let's say that I'm the holder of some intellectual property, and I sign it away to someone else. Now they're the holder, whether I signed it away in exchange for some money, or some apple pie, or nothing at all.
    • Let's say that I have access to some intellectual property, and I distribute it to someone else outside the bounds of fair use/fair dealing/&c. That's infringement, whether I was compensated for the copy with money, or apple pie, or nothing at all.
    The use of bitcoins as compensation changes neither of these scenarios, because the scenarios apply independent of compensation or lack of compensation. Nothing has changed.

    (And as an aside: bitcoins are legally a "store of value" - it'd be like accepting payment in Amazon giftcards. The difficulty of tracking and returning stolen coins in no way puts Bitcoin "outside the law".)

    I'm pretty sure you can share stuff you own and it's the selling they get panties bunched about.

    Cite/reasoning on the legally a store of value claim? Is there a definition of a store of value somewhere? Is a gold coin a SOV? a cow?

    Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
    Qoheleth
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    March 05, 2012, 05:35:06 AM
     #28

    I'm pretty sure you can share stuff you own and it's the selling they get panties bunched about.
    Commercial versus noncommercial use is one of the factors in fair use, but it's not the only factor, or even the most important factor. At least in the United States, there have been cases of people doing "file-sharing" being hit with the proverbial book by RIAA lawsuits.

    Cite/reasoning on the legally a store of value claim? Is there a definition of a store of value somewhere? Is a gold coin a SOV? a cow?
    I have in my memory a post that was allegedly sourced to a response from some US federal agency, talking about Bitcoin as a "store of value" in the context of when KYC requirements kick in for Bitcoin trading. Unfortunately, I've been unsuccessful at rediscovering the post via Google, so I can't point you in its direction, or even say for certain that it was real.

    If there is something that will make Bitcoin succeed, it is growth of utility - greater quantity and variety of goods and services offered for BTC. If there is something that will make Bitcoin fail, it is the culture of naive fools and conmen, the former convinced that BTC is a magic box that will turn them into millionaires, and the latter arriving by the busload to devour them.
    bitplane
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    March 05, 2012, 10:52:55 AM
     #29

    Depends how the laws of your jurisdiction are defined and interpreted in case law. Here in the UK it's less about profit and more about the proceeds of crime. Some IP violations are a criminal offence, getting BTC would be the proceeds of crime.
    nebulus
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    March 06, 2012, 04:23:28 AM
     #30

    Bitcoin is piracy currency here is why.

    I buy an island, get satellite connection and start selling copyrighted materials, IP and other licensed shit for BTC. Basically, it is fat slap in the face to authorities who would want to freeze your accounts to stop you business and since there are no laws on your island you can't get in trouble,

    triplehelix
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    March 06, 2012, 04:46:01 AM
     #31

    Bitcoin is piracy currency here is why.

    I buy an island, get satellite connection and start selling copyrighted materials, IP and other licensed shit for BTC. Basically, it is fat slap in the face to authorities who would want to freeze your accounts to stop you business and since there are no laws on your island you can't get in trouble,

    you need a micronation that isn't in contention with any other jurisdiction as to its sovereignty.

    i wish you luck in your endeavor.  oh, and say hi to kim dotcom for me when you end up on the same cell block.
    PatrickHarnett
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    March 06, 2012, 06:36:10 PM
     #32

    US dollars/yen/euro is piracy currency here is why.

    I buy an island, get satellite connection and start selling copyrighted materials, IP and other licensed shit for BTC. Basically, it is fat slap in the face to authorities who would want to freeze your accounts to stop you business and since there are no laws on your island you can't get in trouble,

    Simply a fail.

    How are you going to buy your satellite and pay for it?  With a so called non-pirate currency?

    You pretend to receive a currency, but the people you damage prevent any and all transfers (monetary and commodities) to your country (even if recognised).  While you are starving to death, they hire a tank and drive over your hut.  The owners of the satellite refuse to transfer your data due to failure of payment and/or lawsuit, etc etc

    Shame you didn't have any infrastructure, electricity, medical or population.  And irrespective of your riches in whatever currency you claim to have, it's worthless if you can't spend it.
    DeathAndTaxes
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    March 06, 2012, 06:41:54 PM
     #33

    Bitcoin is piracy currency here is why.

    I buy an island, get satellite connection and start selling copyrighted materials, IP and other licensed shit for BTC. Basically, it is fat slap in the face to authorities who would want to freeze your accounts to stop you business and since there are no laws on your island you can't get in trouble,

    UN charter prohibits any new nations from forming.  Sad but true.  Any island you buy would be part of an existing nation.  Any newly undiscovered island (unlikely in age of sats) becomes the land of closest existing nation.  It has been this way for some time now.

    Countries are a "good ole boy club" and they don't want any new members.

    Still even with factual inaccuracies your scenario is meaningless.  If you accepted payment in gold would that make gold a pirate currency.

    ARRRGGG 9 out of 10 pirates prefer Gold over Bitcoin coins.

    kjj
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    March 06, 2012, 06:44:34 PM
     #34

    Since there are no laws on your island, I could just show up with a bunch of guys with guns and make it my island.  Right?

    p2pcoin: a USB/CD/PXE p2pool miner - 1N8ZXx2cuMzqBYSK72X4DAy1UdDbZQNPLf - todo
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    nebulus
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    March 06, 2012, 07:04:40 PM
     #35

    Troll fest...

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