Antminer S3 - Profit is Impossible

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

Old school  baseboard heat  heating bills are 300 a month in small 4 room homes.
 I am attempting to have s-3's mining in one or two of these homes.  This could make nice money for me and the home owner's that I recruit.

While Antminers aren't known to catch fire, be careful with extending out your liability to other people's homes.  It's one thing to mine in your own house and keep an eye on your equipment.  It's another to have somebody else's home go up in flames due to a power supply failure - and that probably won't be covered by the homeowner policy.

This kind of thing should be covered by the policy of the homeowner who has the miner in their home.  As long as they don't intentionally set the miner on fire, and as long as it's not considered to be foolishly dangerous (e.g., you know there's a like a 90% chance it will burn your house down), it should be covered.

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[philipma1957]

Old school  baseboard heat  heating bills are 300 a month in small 4 room homes.
 I am attempting to have s-3's mining in one or two of these homes.  This could make nice money for me and the home owner's that I recruit.

While Antminers aren't known to catch fire, be careful with extending out your liability to other people's homes.  It's one thing to mine in your own house and keep an eye on your equipment.  It's another to have somebody else's home go up in flames due to a power supply failure - and that probably won't be covered by the homeowner policy.

This kind of thing should be covered by the policy of the homeowner who has the miner in their home.  As long as they don't intentionally set the miner on fire, and as long as it's not considered to be foolishly dangerous (e.g., you know there's a like a 90% chance it will burn your house down), it should be covered.

  along that note.  if you use an atx psu like an evga  you should be good.  if you use the dell server psu's I would worry due to exposed wires.

The s-3's are not a short hazard   the s-1's are a short hazard.

an atx psu is not a short hazard  the dell/hp servers are a short hazard.

Home mining is going to have spot gear on a solo pool like  bitsolo.net  .  Spot miners like s-3's where heat is needed.

 Home miners with 15btc worth of miners (s-3's) in a garage  hashing 9.5 th at  7320 watts will stop. 
Since the home miners having power cheap enough will limit that type of use quite a bit.

[Biodom]

Old school  baseboard heat  heating bills are 300 a month in small 4 room homes.
 I am attempting to have s-3's mining in one or two of these homes.  This could make nice money for me and the home owner's that I recruit.

While Antminers aren't known to catch fire, be careful with extending out your liability to other people's homes.  It's one thing to mine in your own house and keep an eye on your equipment.  It's another to have somebody else's home go up in flames due to a power supply failure - and that probably won't be covered by the homeowner policy.

This kind of thing should be covered by the policy of the homeowner who has the miner in their home.  As long as they don't intentionally set the miner on fire, and as long as it's not considered to be foolishly dangerous (e.g., you know there's a like a 90% chance it will burn your house down), it should be covered.

 

Home miners with 15btc worth of miners (s-3's) in a garage  hashing 9.5 th at  7320 watts...

Philip...is this what you are doing (20 S3)? I am impressed.

[Bitsaurus]

Old school  baseboard heat  heating bills are 300 a month in small 4 room homes.
 I am attempting to have s-3's mining in one or two of these homes.  This could make nice money for me and the home owner's that I recruit.

While Antminers aren't known to catch fire, be careful with extending out your liability to other people's homes.  It's one thing to mine in your own house and keep an eye on your equipment.  It's another to have somebody else's home go up in flames due to a power supply failure - and that probably won't be covered by the homeowner policy.

This kind of thing should be covered by the policy of the homeowner who has the miner in their home.  As long as they don't intentionally set the miner on fire, and as long as it's not considered to be foolishly dangerous (e.g., you know there's a like a 90% chance it will burn your house down), it should be covered.

I used to work in liability and risk management.  The majority of homeowners' policies do not cover commercial endeavors used at home.  So if you install a car lift in your home garage it would not be covered.  ASIC miners would be considered a commercial endeavor since it expressly generates revenue.  To have it covered you would need to get a rider policy.

This was a grey area with GPU mining since GPUs were not tasked for this, but with ASICs unless you want to try to blatantly lie to the insurance company most people would have to get a rider policy.

[cloverme]

Old school  baseboard heat  heating bills are 300 a month in small 4 room homes.
 I am attempting to have s-3's mining in one or two of these homes.  This could make nice money for me and the home owner's that I recruit.

While Antminers aren't known to catch fire, be careful with extending out your liability to other people's homes.  It's one thing to mine in your own house and keep an eye on your equipment.  It's another to have somebody else's home go up in flames due to a power supply failure - and that probably won't be covered by the homeowner policy.

This kind of thing should be covered by the policy of the homeowner who has the miner in their home.  As long as they don't intentionally set the miner on fire, and as long as it's not considered to be foolishly dangerous (e.g., you know there's a like a 90% chance it will burn your house down), it should be covered.

 

Home miners with 15btc worth of miners (s-3's) in a garage  hashing 9.5 th at  7320 watts...

Philip...is this what you are doing (20 S3)? I am impressed.

Geeze, assuming you ran 3 off 1 power supply, you'd be pulling 70 amps off a 100A panel.  Don't start the washer or the dryer

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

Old school  baseboard heat  heating bills are 300 a month in small 4 room homes.
 I am attempting to have s-3's mining in one or two of these homes.  This could make nice money for me and the home owner's that I recruit.

While Antminers aren't known to catch fire, be careful with extending out your liability to other people's homes.  It's one thing to mine in your own house and keep an eye on your equipment.  It's another to have somebody else's home go up in flames due to a power supply failure - and that probably won't be covered by the homeowner policy.

This kind of thing should be covered by the policy of the homeowner who has the miner in their home.  As long as they don't intentionally set the miner on fire, and as long as it's not considered to be foolishly dangerous (e.g., you know there's a like a 90% chance it will burn your house down), it should be covered.

I used to work in liability and risk management.  The majority of homeowners' policies do not cover commercial endeavors used at home.  So if you install a car lift in your home garage it would not be covered.  ASIC miners would be considered a commercial endeavor since it expressly generates revenue.  To have it covered you would need to get a rider policy.

This was a grey area with GPU mining since GPUs were not tasked for this, but with ASICs unless you want to try to blatantly lie to the insurance company most people would have to get a rider policy.

Thanks for the info.  I did not know that commercial endeavors would not be covered, but that doesn't surprise me.  Certainly if you had a whole bunch of ASIC miners it would be a commercial endeavor.  However, if you just have an ASIC miner or two, couldn't you still claim that it's a hobby if you're not declaring that you own a business (which is basically what I was thinking when I wrote my previous comment)?  Or would the definition of commercial endeavor simply not allow for that?

[ALToids]

Old school  baseboard heat  heating bills are 300 a month in small 4 room homes.
 I am attempting to have s-3's mining in one or two of these homes.  This could make nice money for me and the home owner's that I recruit.

While Antminers aren't known to catch fire, be careful with extending out your liability to other people's homes.  It's one thing to mine in your own house and keep an eye on your equipment.  It's another to have somebody else's home go up in flames due to a power supply failure - and that probably won't be covered by the homeowner policy.

This kind of thing should be covered by the policy of the homeowner who has the miner in their home.  As long as they don't intentionally set the miner on fire, and as long as it's not considered to be foolishly dangerous (e.g., you know there's a like a 90% chance it will burn your house down), it should be covered.

I used to work in liability and risk management.  The majority of homeowners' policies do not cover commercial endeavors used at home.  So if you install a car lift in your home garage it would not be covered.  ASIC miners would be considered a commercial endeavor since it expressly generates revenue.  To have it covered you would need to get a rider policy.

This was a grey area with GPU mining since GPUs were not tasked for this, but with ASICs unless you want to try to blatantly lie to the insurance company most people would have to get a rider policy.

Thanks for the info.  I did not know that commercial endeavors would not be covered, but that doesn't surprise me.  Certainly if you had a whole bunch of ASIC miners it would be a commercial endeavor.  However, if you just have an ASIC miner or two, couldn't you still claim that it's a hobby if you're not declaring that you own a business (which is basically what I was thinking when I wrote my previous comment)?  Or would the definition of commercial endeavor simply not allow for that?

I guess the sticking point would be whether or not the insurance company would consider it a hobby or a business.  Some go by the revenue, some go by the devices intent.

You would need to call the insurance company directly.  I had to get a jewelry rider last week because I bought some rings and necklaces.

[philipma1957]

Old school  baseboard heat  heating bills are 300 a month in small 4 room homes.
 I am attempting to have s-3's mining in one or two of these homes.  This could make nice money for me and the home owner's that I recruit.

While Antminers aren't known to catch fire, be careful with extending out your liability to other people's homes.  It's one thing to mine in your own house and keep an eye on your equipment.  It's another to have somebody else's home go up in flames due to a power supply failure - and that probably won't be covered by the homeowner policy.

This kind of thing should be covered by the policy of the homeowner who has the miner in their home.  As long as they don't intentionally set the miner on fire, and as long as it's not considered to be foolishly dangerous (e.g., you know there's a like a 90% chance it will burn your house down), it should be covered.

 

Home miners with 15btc worth of miners (s-3's) in a garage  hashing 9.5 th at  7320 watts...

Philip...is this what you are doing (20 S3)? I am impressed.

Geeze, assuming you ran 3 off 1 power supply, you'd be pulling 70 amps off a 100A panel.  Don't start the washer or the dryer

i have 200 amp service

[9600]

Just my two cents.

GPU mining early + Selling LTC at the right time + Buying S1s at the right time + purchasing A1s at $1.25/GH + Antminer S3s + Free Power = A perfect storm wherein I've been able to ROI and sustain purchases.

I don't think I'm the only one in this boat. 
My purchases were made through retail channels without any special discounts.
 
There is also the chance that we will continue to see sub 20% diff. growth over the next few months. As others have stated, we've hit a bit of a wall in terms of asic dev. We're not in the same boat as we were this month last year.

I will agree though, I'm finding it harder and harder to make an argument to my friends and colleagues to begin mining. Unless you have a special set of circumstances (free power) and can invest in a substantial amount of hardware, the potential gains are not worth the risks over buying and holding.

Unless you always just want to mine as a hobby, and hope you ROI.
Plenty of folks do this.
They like the blikenlights.

The S1 has awesome blikenlights.

[philipma1957]

Just my two cents.

GPU mining early + Selling LTC at the right time + Buying S1s at the right time + purchasing A1s at $1.25/GH + Antminer S3s + Free Power = A perfect storm wherein I've been able to ROI and sustain purchases.

I don't think I'm the only one in this boat. 
My purchases were made through retail channels without any special discounts.
 
There is also the chance that we will continue to see sub 20% diff. growth over the next few months. As others have stated, we've hit a bit of a wall in terms of asic dev. We're not in the same boat as we were this month last year.

I will agree though, I'm finding it harder and harder to make an argument to my friends and colleagues to begin mining. Unless you have a special set of circumstances (free power) and can invest in a substantial amount of hardware, the potential gains are not worth the risks over buying and holding.

Unless you always just want to mine as a hobby, and hope you ROI.
Plenty of folks do this.
They like the blikenlights.

The S1 has awesome blikenlights.

If you:
 A) own a spare atx psu that will run 2 s-3's
B) already are paying for the internet
C) have a few cat 5 cables and a spare gigbyte switch.

you need only buy a pair of s-3's and pay for power .

2 s-3's are .128btc

if diff = 11% over the next 6 months they do btc roi

[9600]

Just my two cents.

GPU mining early + Selling LTC at the right time + Buying S1s at the right time + purchasing A1s at $1.25/GH + Antminer S3s + Free Power = A perfect storm wherein I've been able to ROI and sustain purchases.

I don't think I'm the only one in this boat.  
My purchases were made through retail channels without any special discounts.
 
There is also the chance that we will continue to see sub 20% diff. growth over the next few months. As others have stated, we've hit a bit of a wall in terms of asic dev. We're not in the same boat as we were this month last year.

I will agree though, I'm finding it harder and harder to make an argument to my friends and colleagues to begin mining. Unless you have a special set of circumstances (free power) and can invest in a substantial amount of hardware, the potential gains are not worth the risks over buying and holding.

Unless you always just want to mine as a hobby, and hope you ROI.
Plenty of folks do this.
They like the blikenlights.

The S1 has awesome blikenlights.

If you:
 A) own a spare atx psu that will run 2 s-3's
B) already are paying for the internet
C) have a few cat 5 cables and a spare gigbyte switch.

you need only buy a pair of s-3's and pay for power .

2 s-3's are .128btc

if diff = 11% over the next 6 months they do btc roi

Agreed. Plain and simple, this notion that you cannot be profitable under the 10TH mark is simply nonsense. Even with more conservative jumps around 18-20% ROI is more than realistic if you are even the slightest bit bullish. If you're not bullish on BTC, you probably shouldn't be mining...

[jjc326]

I agree with OP.  We need more candid and frank assessments about mining.  I really don't know what is supporting all these people buying these high priced items.  I think you're better off with cloud mining as long as it's a legit company.

[Finksy]

I don't understand how anyone can justify investing in cloud mining.  You get zero residual on the purchase unlike hardware (no matter how small that residual resale value is, it still exists) and the $/GH/s is ridiculous.  No matter what anyone says, investing in BTC be it mining or in coin is risky, and not a single person on this forum has accepted that without making their own assumptions. The problem is asserting one's assumptions as facts, and calling another's fallacy.  Nobody knows what's going to happen, don't make it sound like gospel.

What I like about mining vs buying coin is the flexibility.   Markets naturally self-adjust, so if BTC was to plummet, then a significant amount of miners using less efficient hardware and/or paying more for power will pull the plug, far sooner than those of us who secure electricity/hosting deals or have access to cheap power, driving the difficulty down.  Now tell me this, if we are to measure ROI in BTC and BTC alone, what would happen if BTC plummeted to $100 US?  I'd wager that the drop in difficulty would result in an S3 paying for itself in a real hurry, even if the exchange to fiat wasn't exactly favourable from an investment point of view. The problem I see is that many people have turned their assumption that BTC will significantly increase in value into fact.  Miners can hypothetically make a return on investment if the exchange stays flat for the years to come, buy & holders cannot.  Should I start a thread labelled "Buy and hold - Profit is Impossible"?  (...aaaand putting on flamesuit)

I find it interesting that the buy & hold types on here try to discourage mining as much as possible, when it is a major driving force behind their investment.  Leads me to believe that maybe the ones discouraging mining have a vested interest in mining themselves...

I completely agree that everyone should have balance, just like any other portfolio.  Buy some coin, buy some hardware.  Buying coin can be made more advantageous by deciding when to buy in, unlike hardware.

[jjc326]

I don't understand how anyone can justify investing in cloud mining.  You get zero residual on the purchase unlike hardware (no matter how small that residual resale value is, it still exists) and the $/GH/s is ridiculous.  No matter what anyone says, investing in BTC be it mining or in coin is risky, and not a single person on this forum has accepted that without making their own assumptions. The problem is asserting one's assumptions as facts, and calling another's fallacy.  Nobody knows what's going to happen, don't make it sound like gospel.

What I like about mining vs buying coin is the flexibility.   Markets naturally self-adjust, so if BTC was to plummet, then a significant amount of miners using less efficient hardware and/or paying more for power will pull the plug, far sooner than those of us who secure electricity/hosting deals or have access to cheap power, driving the difficulty down.  Now tell me this, if we are to measure ROI in BTC and BTC alone, what would happen if BTC plummeted to $100 US?  I'd wager that the drop in difficulty would result in an S3 paying for itself in a real hurry, even if the exchange to fiat wasn't exactly favourable from an investment point of view. The problem I see is that many people have turned their assumption that BTC will significantly increase in value into fact.  Miners can hypothetically make a return on investment if the exchange stays flat for the years to come, buy & holders cannot.  Should I start a thread labelled "Buy and hold - Profit is Impossible"?  (...aaaand putting on flamesuit)

I find it interesting that the buy & hold types on here try to discourage mining as much as possible, when it is a major driving force behind their investment.  Leads me to believe that maybe the ones discouraging mining have a vested interest in mining themselves...

I completely agree that everyone should have balance, just like any other portfolio.  Buy some coin, buy some hardware.  Buying coin can be made more advantageous by deciding when to buy in, unlike hardware.

You do raise some interesting points but I think cloud mining can be profitable.  For instance the company in my signature, you know what your costs are going to be.  Then you need to put the numbers into a spreadsheet and figure it out.  If you think the difficulty increase is only going to be like 5-10% then you will make money with lunamine.  There are some cloud mining companies which are "too good to be true" and you have to watch out for those going out of business, but not all of them.

[nwfella]

Just my two cents.

GPU mining early + Selling LTC at the right time + Buying S1s at the right time + purchasing A1s at $1.25/GH + Antminer S3s + Free Power = A perfect storm wherein I've been able to ROI and sustain purchases.

I don't think I'm the only one in this boat. 
My purchases were made through retail channels without any special discounts.
 
There is also the chance that we will continue to see sub 20% diff. growth over the next few months. As others have stated, we've hit a bit of a wall in terms of asic dev. We're not in the same boat as we were this month last year.

I will agree though, I'm finding it harder and harder to make an argument to my friends and colleagues to begin mining. Unless you have a special set of circumstances (free power) and can invest in a substantial amount of hardware, the potential gains are not worth the risks over buying and holding.

Unless you always just want to mine as a hobby, and hope you ROI.
Plenty of folks do this.
They like the blikenlights.

The S1 has awesome blikenlights.

Well said you lucky <beep> you.  But yeah, them lights shure are purdy

[Swimmer63]

I don't understand how anyone can justify investing in cloud mining.  You get zero residual on the purchase unlike hardware (no matter how small that residual resale value is, it still exists) and the $/GH/s is ridiculous.  No matter what anyone says, investing in BTC be it mining or in coin is risky, and not a single person on this forum has accepted that without making their own assumptions. The problem is asserting one's assumptions as facts, and calling another's fallacy.  Nobody knows what's going to happen, don't make it sound like gospel.

What I like about mining vs buying coin is the flexibility.   Markets naturally self-adjust, so if BTC was to plummet, then a significant amount of miners using less efficient hardware and/or paying more for power will pull the plug, far sooner than those of us who secure electricity/hosting deals or have access to cheap power, driving the difficulty down.  Now tell me this, if we are to measure ROI in BTC and BTC alone, what would happen if BTC plummeted to $100 US?  I'd wager that the drop in difficulty would result in an S3 paying for itself in a real hurry, even if the exchange to fiat wasn't exactly favourable from an investment point of view. The problem I see is that many people have turned their assumption that BTC will significantly increase in value into fact.  Miners can hypothetically make a return on investment if the exchange stays flat for the years to come, buy & holders cannot.  Should I start a thread labelled "Buy and hold - Profit is Impossible"?  (...aaaand putting on flamesuit)

I find it interesting that the buy & hold types on here try to discourage mining as much as possible, when it is a major driving force behind their investment.  Leads me to believe that maybe the ones discouraging mining have a vested interest in mining themselves...

I completely agree that everyone should have balance, just like any other portfolio.  Buy some coin, buy some hardware.  Buying coin can be made more advantageous by deciding when to buy in, unlike hardware.

Agreed.  I have yet to see a cloud mining contract that makes sense as an investment.  Think about it.  The owners of the asics doing the mining are only writing cloud contracts because they make more than just mining on their own.
You might find someone, like jjc326 pointed out, who has a razor thin margin.  But you are still taking a big chance for very little potential upside.
At least with live mining YOU are in charge of your costs and you get to sell the equipment.  You also can decide your own timing for getting out, depending what the market does.
But I also understand that not everyone can house a 10 Th/s mining farm in their house/office etc.  I had to move mine to a datacenter.  Maybe there is some justification for these folks to have a cloud contract if they were going to be buying the btc anyway.  Not sure about that though.

[philipma1957]

I don't understand how anyone can justify investing in cloud mining.  You get zero residual on the purchase unlike hardware (no matter how small that residual resale value is, it still exists) and the $/GH/s is ridiculous.  No matter what anyone says, investing in BTC be it mining or in coin is risky, and not a single person on this forum has accepted that without making their own assumptions. The problem is asserting one's assumptions as facts, and calling another's fallacy.  Nobody knows what's going to happen, don't make it sound like gospel.

What I like about mining vs buying coin is the flexibility.   Markets naturally self-adjust, so if BTC was to plummet, then a significant amount of miners using less efficient hardware and/or paying more for power will pull the plug, far sooner than those of us who secure electricity/hosting deals or have access to cheap power, driving the difficulty down.  Now tell me this, if we are to measure ROI in BTC and BTC alone, what would happen if BTC plummeted to $100 US?  I'd wager that the drop in difficulty would result in an S3 paying for itself in a real hurry, even if the exchange to fiat wasn't exactly favourable from an investment point of view. The problem I see is that many people have turned their assumption that BTC will significantly increase in value into fact.  Miners can hypothetically make a return on investment if the exchange stays flat for the years to come, buy & holders cannot.  Should I start a thread labelled "Buy and hold - Profit is Impossible"?  (...aaaand putting on flamesuit)

I find it interesting that the buy & hold types on here try to discourage mining as much as possible, when it is a major driving force behind their investment.  Leads me to believe that maybe the ones discouraging mining have a vested interest in mining themselves...

I completely agree that everyone should have balance, just like any other portfolio.  Buy some coin, buy some hardware.  Buying coin can be made more advantageous by deciding when to buy in, unlike hardware.

Agreed.  I have yet to see a cloud mining contract that makes sense as an investment.  Think about it.  The owners of the asics doing the mining are only writing cloud contracts because they make more than just mining on their own.
You might find someone, like jjc326 pointed out, who has a razor thin margin.  But you are still taking a big chance for very little potential upside.
At least with live mining YOU are in charge of your costs and you get to sell the equipment.  You also can decide your own timing for getting out, depending what the market does.
But I also understand that not everyone can house a 10 Th/s mining farm in their house/office etc.  I had to move mine to a datacenter.  Maybe there is some justification for these folks to have a cloud contract if they were going to be buying the btc anyway.  Not sure about that though.

right now gawminers is hosting your antminer s-3.  you can pay with a cc. you get 1 month free hosting

it is better then the normal cloud hosting deal.  I have a thread link


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=698679.0;all


these are far better deals then most cloud mining places.

cex.io
scrypt.cc

cost way more then hosting a miner you purchased from them.

if you use a cc mine for the free 30 days. then have them ship the miner to you. it should earn miner.  I have the 3 miners with them.

i plan to run them until hosting ends then ship them to my home and list them on ebay or mine them at home when the need for ac will be gone.

[9600]

Just my two cents.

GPU mining early + Selling LTC at the right time + Buying S1s at the right time + purchasing A1s at $1.25/GH + Antminer S3s + Free Power = A perfect storm wherein I've been able to ROI and sustain purchases.

I don't think I'm the only one in this boat. 
My purchases were made through retail channels without any special discounts.
 
There is also the chance that we will continue to see sub 20% diff. growth over the next few months. As others have stated, we've hit a bit of a wall in terms of asic dev. We're not in the same boat as we were this month last year.

I will agree though, I'm finding it harder and harder to make an argument to my friends and colleagues to begin mining. Unless you have a special set of circumstances (free power) and can invest in a substantial amount of hardware, the potential gains are not worth the risks over buying and holding.

Unless you always just want to mine as a hobby, and hope you ROI.
Plenty of folks do this.
They like the blikenlights.

The S1 has awesome blikenlights.

Well said you lucky <beep> you.  But yeah, them lights shure are purdy

Is it safe here?
Can I say that the S3s lack of active blinkenlights disappoints me more than my units finicky performance?

 

[alh]

If you:
 A) own a spare atx psu that will run 2 s-3's
B) already are paying for the internet
C) have a few cat 5 cables and a spare gigbyte switch.

you need only buy a pair of s-3's and pay for power .

2 s-3's are .128btc

if diff = 11% over the next 6 months they do btc roi

So where do you get 2 S-3's for .128 BTC (i.e less than $100)?

That sounds like the steal of the century, or is the price wrong?

[cloverme]

If you:
 A) own a spare atx psu that will run 2 s-3's
B) already are paying for the internet
C) have a few cat 5 cables and a spare gigbyte switch.

you need only buy a pair of s-3's and pay for power .

2 s-3's are .128btc

if diff = 11% over the next 6 months they do btc roi

So where do you get 2 S-3's for .128 BTC (i.e less than $100)?

That sounds like the steal of the century, or is the price wrong?

Two go for 1.17btc with coupons....