Please stop with mBTC, microBTC, ...!

[tmobileguy]

Can't believe this debate is still going on 

This kind of discussions pops up every few months and there has never been any sort of resolution. I have seen a prized contest, a few votes, and it is ALWAYS split between standard SI units and "bit". I honestly don't have a problem having them both. Standard SI units for contracts and "official" use and "bit" for day to day use, like we call 1 pound (GBP) a "quid".

not a bad idea....we call twenties....'dubs'

[tmobileguy]

1 bitcoin = 1,000,000 bits

It's a clear and obvious choice, and that's why it's being adopted by some of the larger players.

I've yet to see an argument against it that doesn't inadvertently argue for it.

It is nonsense, but that doesn't mean it won't be used.   "bits" doesn't imply 1000000 and if you saw it without a key you couldn't figure it out.

1 BTC = 1,000,000 uBTC

That is clear and obvious to most people in the world.  Many will use the metric system but it is so simple to use.

Why wouldn't you be able to figure it out?

And why does adding a 'u' in front of BTC mean you would....is that how you talk in your daily life?


"hey honey, i just ran 1000000000 uMETERS today"....

[film2240]

Just use BTC or satoshi (0.00000001) like in:

I just bought a car for 10 BTC!
The new Final Fantasy game will cost only 15000 satoshi!

Using mBTC, uBTC, μBTC is just unnecessary, sounds like a different coin and it will confuse a lot of people.

Coinedup and a few other sites are guilty of using mBTC.

1 satoshi is the smallest unit of BTC that's all people should have to learn. If you want massive user adoption you have to simplify things.

The use of terms like mBTC and uBTC does put me off of using BTC more widely in my day to day life as I can never understand what these terms mean.I always preferred just using Bitcoins or BTC (eg if an item costs me 0.30 Bitcoins,I'd prefer to be told in terms of 0.30BTC,not any of this mBTC stuff as I just can't understand how much things actually cost otherwise and I would feel misled/overcharged in a transaction with BTC otherwise).

The use of such terms im my view should be curbed completely if we are to improve adoption among the wider public and clean up BTC's image (any thing that seems to mislead end users due to uncertainties will cause further problems on top of all the previous scandals BTC has had.)

[dyask]

1 bitcoin = 1,000,000 bits

It's a clear and obvious choice, and that's why it's being adopted by some of the larger players.

I've yet to see an argument against it that doesn't inadvertently argue for it.

It is nonsense, but that doesn't mean it won't be used.   "bits" doesn't imply 1000000 and if you saw it without a key you couldn't figure it out.

1 BTC = 1,000,000 uBTC

That is clear and obvious to most people in the world.  Many will use the metric system but it is so simple to use.

Why wouldn't you be able to figure it out?

And why does adding a 'u' in front of BTC mean you would....is that how you talk in your daily life?


"hey honey, i just ran 1000000000 uMETERS today"....

Frankly you are taking like a 13 year old.   (I know I have one.)   Most people in the world understand SI units and prefixes. 

[101111]

So imagine the govt says yeah bitcoin is cool there's some features we especially like, such as the SI units. So we're adopting that 'feature' to the dollar.

The old dollar is now worth 0.0000001 new dollars. 1 old cent is now 0.00000001 new dollars. There'll be milli and micro new dollars. Changeover at end of year so you all have time to learn it.

How well do you think that's going to go down with the general population?

[tmobileguy]

1 bitcoin = 1,000,000 bits

It's a clear and obvious choice, and that's why it's being adopted by some of the larger players.

I've yet to see an argument against it that doesn't inadvertently argue for it.

It is nonsense, but that doesn't mean it won't be used.   "bits" doesn't imply 1000000 and if you saw it without a key you couldn't figure it out.

1 BTC = 1,000,000 uBTC

That is clear and obvious to most people in the world.  Many will use the metric system but it is so simple to use.

Why wouldn't you be able to figure it out?

And why does adding a 'u' in front of BTC mean you would....is that how you talk in your daily life?


"hey honey, i just ran 1000000000 uMETERS today"....

Frankly you are taking like a 13 year old.   (I know I have one.)   Most people in the world understand SI units and prefixes. 

Maybe I am 13yrs old...which means you better stop sending me pornography requests since that is illegal in this country...

Rutt Rohhh....

[tmobileguy]

So imagine the govt says yeah bitcoin is cool there's some features we especially like, such as the SI units. So we're adopting that 'feature' to the dollar.

The old dollar is now worth 0.0000001 new dollars. 1 old cent is now 0.00000001 new dollars. There'll be milli and micro new dollars. Changeover at end of year so you all have time to learn it.

How well do you think that's going to go down with the general population?

dyask, will be the only one with his .0000001 dollars converting them to .0000004324213 yen and making fun of everyone else for not being able to do so while using those converted funds to buy kiddie porn on the internet...

The rest of us, aka the general population, will be screwed because micro and milli dollar conversion will be ridiculous to use on a regular basis...
Most of us have come to the common sense rationale (except Dyask), that the less zeros and the more we clean up BTC, the better it will be in the long run...

[Abdussamad]

I hate mbtc. Still haven't figured out what people mean when they use that unit. I wish they would stick to btc. I'm used to the decimal point and the zeroes. It's actually quite easy. You just count the number of zeroes right after the dot to get some semblance of the value.

[Ilsk]

I hate mbtc. Still haven't figured out what people mean when they use that unit. I wish they would stick to btc. I'm used to the decimal point and the zeroes. It's actually quite easy. You just count the number of zeroes right after the dot to get some semblance of the value.

The problem is that you have to count, with mBtc you get some semblance of the value faster.

[Abdussamad]

I hate mbtc. Still haven't figured out what people mean when they use that unit. I wish they would stick to btc. I'm used to the decimal point and the zeroes. It's actually quite easy. You just count the number of zeroes right after the dot to get some semblance of the value.

The problem is that you have to count, with mBtc you get some semblance of the value faster.

You only have to count up to 3 zeroes. Take the default transaction fee for example. It's 0.0001. So anything with more than 3 zeroes is just too small to care about.

[tmobileguy]

I hate mbtc. Still haven't figured out what people mean when they use that unit. I wish they would stick to btc. I'm used to the decimal point and the zeroes. It's actually quite easy. You just count the number of zeroes right after the dot to get some semblance of the value.

The problem is that you have to count, with mBtc you get some semblance of the value faster.

You only have to count up to 3 zeroes. Take the default transaction fee for example. It's 0.0001. So anything with more than 3 zeroes is just too small to care about.

right now...but what about when bitcoins are 100k a pop, then we will be using 6 zeros and it will be insane...and if we dont fix it now, it will never get to 6 zeros....

[dyask]

So imagine the govt says yeah bitcoin is cool there's some features we especially like, such as the SI units. So we're adopting that 'feature' to the dollar.

The old dollar is now worth 0.0000001 new dollars. 1 old cent is now 0.00000001 new dollars. There'll be milli and micro new dollars. Changeover at end of year so you all have time to learn it.

How well do you think that's going to go down with the general population?

dyask, will be the only one with his .0000001 dollars converting them to .0000004324213 yen and making fun of everyone else for not being able to do so while using those converted funds to buy kiddie porn on the internet...

The rest of us, aka the general population, will be screwed because micro and milli dollar conversion will be ridiculous to use on a regular basis...
Most of us have come to the common sense rationale (except Dyask), that the less zeros and the more we clean up BTC, the better it will be in the long run...

Using SI units it would .1 uUSD to .99 uYen ... but that would be silly.   I gave my son .1 BTC for playing around with bitcoin, what have you done?   He by the way doesn't have any issues with using SI units in English or in Japanese.   Anyway don't you think it is time to stop with the insults?     

[tmobileguy]

So imagine the govt says yeah bitcoin is cool there's some features we especially like, such as the SI units. So we're adopting that 'feature' to the dollar.

The old dollar is now worth 0.0000001 new dollars. 1 old cent is now 0.00000001 new dollars. There'll be milli and micro new dollars. Changeover at end of year so you all have time to learn it.

How well do you think that's going to go down with the general population?

dyask, will be the only one with his .0000001 dollars converting them to .0000004324213 yen and making fun of everyone else for not being able to do so while using those converted funds to buy kiddie porn on the internet...

The rest of us, aka the general population, will be screwed because micro and milli dollar conversion will be ridiculous to use on a regular basis...
Most of us have come to the common sense rationale (except Dyask), that the less zeros and the more we clean up BTC, the better it will be in the long run...

Using SI units it would .1 uUSD to .99 uYen ... but that would be silly.   I gave my son .1 BTC for playing around with bitcoin, what have you done?   He by the way doesn't have any issues with using SI units in English or in Japanese.   Anyway don't you think it is time to stop with the insults?     

Sooo, you are the first to insult, but then when someone insults you back you wan't to complain....sounds like someone that can dish it but can't take it...Quick piece of advice, if you don't want to be insulted, don't insult people!


Anyway, back on topic....

Bits are the way to go...and I think that's what will become commonplace...

[dyask]

Sooo, you are the first to insult, but then when someone insults you back you wan't to complain....sounds like someone that can dish it but can't take it...Quick piece of advice, if you don't want to be insulted, don't insult people!

Anyway, back on topic....

Bits are the way to go...and I think that's what will become commonplace...

Huh? You have been attacking everything I said for pages and trying to make fun of it, probably because you don't have a valid argument. 

Anyway "Bits" is bad.  We already have BTC & Satoshi which is already one too many terms.   All is needed is SI prefixes.   If Bits were to be adopted then BTC & Satoshi would have to fad away.   You would then have kBits, MBits, GBits and so forth.   SI prefixes go both directions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_prefix

Also "Bits" is bad because it conflicts with other meanings.    For example network speed is often measured in bits/second. 

BTC & Satoshi are already in use.  However Satoshi may change in the future if the number of decimal places is increased for BTC.   It is time for everyone to learn the metric system.  Over 90% of the world is on board with it. 

[BurtW]

If Bits were to be adopted then BTC & Satoshi would have to fad[e] away.   You would then have kBits, MBits, GBits and so forth.   SI prefixes go both directions.

Agree with BTC going away, also "Bitcoin" or "bitcoin" as a unit of measure would probably fade as price goes up.  However "satoshi" could still remain in use in the same way "cents" are used today.  Anyway, the full proposal is:

1 satoshi = smallest unit, pretty much in general use today
1 bit       = 100 satoshi, eventually every day use, coffee, sandwiches, etc.
1 XBT     = 1 bit, should be the official symbol on all exchanges, forex, etc.
1 BTC     = 1000000 bits = kept for dealing with larger amounts, may fade

1 Bitcoin/bitcoin as a currency unit fades away

Bitcoin = the Bitcoin protocol

Notice that 1 microBitcoin = 100 satoshi = 1 bit = 1 XBT

When adopted we can all look forward to the day when a shave and a haircut will, once again, cost two bits.

[dyask]

1 satoshi = smallest unit, pretty much in general use today
1 bit       = 100 satoshi, eventually every day use, coffee, sandwiches, etc.
1 XBT     = 1 bit, should be the official symbol on all exchanges, forex, etc.
1 BTC     = 1000000 bits = kept for dealing with larger amounts, may fade

That is crazy.  Adding more terms doesn't make it simple.   Just stick and "XBT" is a totally different term again. 

kBTC  = 1000 BTC
BTC
mBTC  = .001 BTC
uBTC   = .000001 BTC

Now that is easy and simple and follows SI standards.   It can also easily extended in either direction.   One term and stardard prefixes.

[BurtW]

1 satoshi = smallest unit, pretty much in general use today
1 bit       = 100 satoshi, eventually every day use, coffee, sandwiches, etc.
1 XBT     = 1 bit, should be the official symbol on all exchanges, forex, etc.
1 BTC     = 1000000 bits = kept for dealing with larger amounts, may fade

That is crazy.  Adding more terms doesn't make it simple.   Just stick and "XBT" is a totally different term again.  

kBTC  = 1000 BTC
BTC
mBTC  = .001 BTC
uBTC   = .000001 BTC

Now that is easy and simple and follows SI standards.   It can also easily extended in either direction.   One term and stardard prefixes.

I totally understand where you are coming from.  The XBT thing is important because it would/will be the standard symbol for Bitcoin in the forex markets.  X = not from a specific country like XAG for silver and XAU for gold and "BT" for an obvious choice for BiTcoin (could also be XBC probably).  "BTC" does not follow the standardized naming conventions, it was just made up out of thin air a long time ago - here in these forums actually.

[zhinkk]

Can't believe this debate is still going on 

This kind of discussions pops up every few months and there has never been any sort of resolution. I have seen a prized contest, a few votes, and it is ALWAYS split between standard SI units and "bit". I honestly don't have a problem having them both. Standard SI units for contracts and "official" use and "bit" for day to day use, like we call 1 pound (GBP) a "quid".

And I don't think it will ever end, lol. That's how I stand behind this debate. I have no problem with either. Say bits. Say mBTC. Say ubits. Whatever you desire, I'll know what you're talking about.

[dyask]

Can't believe this debate is still going on 

This kind of discussions pops up every few months and there has never been any sort of resolution. I have seen a prized contest, a few votes, and it is ALWAYS split between standard SI units and "bit". I honestly don't have a problem having them both. Standard SI units for contracts and "official" use and "bit" for day to day use, like we call 1 pound (GBP) a "quid".

And I don't think it will ever end, lol. That's how I stand behind this debate. I have no problem with either. Say bits. Say mBTC. Say ubits. Whatever you desire, I'll know what you're talking about.

It isn't a problem when everyone understands what is being talked about.   Trading is even less of a concern because traders are used to different symbols.   My concern is that if "Bits" becomes wide spread, it will only be a matter of time before it doesn't work anymore because of changes in BTC exchange rate or something else.   Someone will come up with yet another term!  The fix isn't creating new terms, the fix is learning how to work with the units we have.  Bitcoin isn't American and it should be pulled in the same unit morass used for common measurements in USA.   

 

[dyask]

Before people listen to the voices from the USA much they should look at just how insane the US system of units is.

For example:
There is a measurement called a dry pint.  16 dry pints = 1 peck.  4 pecks = 1 bushel.  But 1 bushel = 9.30917749 US gallons.  
Okay but a bushel is mass so lets convert it to oz.  Oh 1 US dry pint = 18.618355 US fluid ounces!  And these are the people complaining that mBTC is confusing?  In all fairness most Americans don't have a clue what a peck is, but they are the ones crying for more units.

Make it simple, just use the units we have!  Use SI prefixes and let most of the Americans learn something useful for change.  

For the record I'm a US citizen, but I'm not proud of the messed system of units used in the US.   Pretty absurd if you ask me.

Finally you just have to love how people plan to map "bits" to the USD.   Like the USD is the only currency in the world that people care about.   Wake up people, look at the calendar, it isn't 1969 anymore.  

Video about US distance measurements:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7x-RGfd0Yk