Don't Mess with Messiahs

[sana8410]

The people who count in the “removals” numbers (which is what administration flacks mean when they boast of “deportations”) are legal immigrants who’ve committed crimes or illegal aliens caught inside the country

He stated clearly that the priority was going to be deporting those with criminal records, or known to be a threat to public health and safety, anjy.   Also, the ones "caught" would seem to me to be a good place to start, n'est pas?

Where would you have preferred he start?  With the toddlers?

Really, whether political flaks are fudging the numbers with technicalities in order to bump them for public consumption is the kind of thing that conservatives obsess over; not me.   I know as I write this that the president and this administration are sincerely doing all they can, despite these batshit conspiracies you people seem to live to immerse yourselves in.

Well that's all well and good, unless of course you're going to go around touting those inflated numbers to make your case.  You can't argue that he's deported more than any other president, then get upset when it's pointed out that this isn't the case, and then say that it isn't for you to worry about if the numbers are inflated.  lol.  Well I mean you can, but...

Forget the numbers then.  F... the numbers.   Tell us what you're telling your Republican congressman to do.
Nothing informs the electorate about how sick and diseased the right wing has become than letting conservatives speak for themselves.

I'll take that to mean that going forward, you won't tout numbers you now know not to be true.  Baby steps!
I want the borders secured.  And I believe we have the manpower to do it.  And I believe talks should be underway with these children's countries and we have to make it clear that these children will be returned immediately.  It is up to their home countries to handle what happens to them once they are returned.  This is the only way to keep more from making the journey. 

[umair127]

What you want wasn't what I asked you,  and those things are being done already to the best we can do.  I asked you what you are asking of your Rep. congressman...have you been in touch?   Was "Please pass an immigration bill" - or at least bring one up for vote - anywhere in the communication?  Once these people are HERE,  there are complicated measures.  You don't just pile them in rail cars and wave bye.

[sana8410]

What you want wasn't what I asked you,  and those things are being done already to the best we can do.  I asked you what you are asking of your Rep. congressman...have you been in touch?   Was "Please pass an immigration bill" - or at least bring one up for vote - anywhere in the communication?  Once these people are HERE,  there are complicated measures.  You don't just pile them in rail cars and wave bye.

I disagree.  We are not securing the border to the best of our ability, and I have seen no details about talks with these countries in which we are taking a hard stand and letting them know that these kids will be boomeranging right back home. 

And to your "you don't just pile them into cars and wave goodbye," apparently we do.  Only we send them further into the United States rather than back to their country.  Apparently bussing them to wherever we want them is not the problem.  We're doing that now.  We're just going the wrong way.

[umair127]

What you want wasn't what I asked you,  and those things are being done already to the best we can do.  I asked you what you are asking of your Rep. congressman...have you been in touch?   Was "Please pass an immigration bill" - or at least bring one up for vote - anywhere in the communication?  Once these people are HERE,  there are complicated measures.  You don't just pile them in rail cars and wave bye.

I disagree.  We are not securing the border to the best of our ability, and I have seen no details about talks with these countries in which we are taking a hard stand and letting them know that these kids will be boomeranging right back home. 

And to your "you don't just pile them into cars and wave goodbye," apparently we do.  Only we send them further into the United States rather than back to their country.  Apparently bussing them to wherever we want them is not the problem.  We're doing that now.  We're just going the wrong way.

You get so busy being smart alecky, counting nits to make some kind of 'score' (which escapes me, whatever you think you're scoring) that you don't seem to realize the nits are on a giant diseased rat....and is not  named Obama.  It's called Congress.  The Republican congress.

[sana8410]

What you want wasn't what I asked you,  and those things are being done already to the best we can do.  I asked you what you are asking of your Rep. congressman...have you been in touch?   Was "Please pass an immigration bill" - or at least bring one up for vote - anywhere in the communication?  Once these people are HERE,  there are complicated measures.  You don't just pile them in rail cars and wave bye.

I disagree.  We are not securing the border to the best of our ability, and I have seen no details about talks with these countries in which we are taking a hard stand and letting them know that these kids will be boomeranging right back home. 

And to your "you don't just pile them into cars and wave goodbye," apparently we do.  Only we send them further into the United States rather than back to their country.  Apparently bussing them to wherever we want them is not the problem.  We're doing that now.  We're just going the wrong way.

You get so busy being smart alecky, counting nits to make some kind of 'score' (which escapes me, whatever you think you're scoring) that you don't seem to realize the nits are on a giant diseased rat....and is not  named Obama.  It's called Congress.  The Republican congress.

I realize you'd like to deflect all of the blame onto only republicans.  There is plenty to go around.  But you seem to have been defending this president's record on deporting illegals and securing the boarder here on this thread that is actually about the Obama administration, so, uh...   

[Rigon]

If you read the OP, you will see the deportations are being held up by our own restrictions. 
Step 1 and 2:  Change the restrictions and secure the borders.  Nothing else matters until that is done.

[sana8410]

Please, point me in the direction of where talks have occurred in which we declared point blank that these kids were being returned immediately and then those talks were followed up on to show that we are serious.  I'm dying to see them.

[umair127]

Please, point me in the direction of where talks have occurred in which we declared point blank that these kids were being returned immediately and then those talks were followed up on to show that we are serious.  I'm dying to see them.

Strawman.  What I said (meant anyway) is that we are pursuing diplomatic solutions with these countries.  I've read numerous accounts of American officials in talks with these south and central American countries.  

You're looking for simplistic 'solutions' (because really, you're a simpleton)...and you're not going to get any.  Especially if your representatives don't represent anything except their party.

[sana8410]

Please, point me in the direction of where talks have occurred in which we declared point blank that these kids were being returned immediately and then those talks were followed up on to show that we are serious.  I'm dying to see them.

 
Strawman.  What I said (meant anyway) is that we are pursuing diplomatic solutions with these countries.  I've read numerous accounts of American officials in talks with these south and central American countries.  

You're looking for simplistic 'solutions' (because really, you're a simpleton)...and you're not going to get any.  Especially if your representatives don't represent anything except their party.

If the goal is to change the rules so that these kids can be returned to their home countries immediately, I predict the right will be on board.  Want to make any predictions about your side?  Because if there's resistance to that rule being changed I don't think it's so crazy to predict that it comes from someone on the left, Jackie.  And as the article linked in the OP points out, pushing for a change to this rule hasn't been Obama's focus at all.  
You forgot to add AFTER he VOTED AGAINST IT under Eisenhower.
Your example, is one explanation of why our friends in the south seem to hate our federal government so much.  

It forces them to stop discriminating, forces them to allow Blacks to vote, and add to that, it allows Black and White folks to marry each other.  Lawdy - no wonder they hate our government so!!

[umair127]

Please, point me in the direction of where talks have occurred in which we declared point blank that these kids were being returned immediately and then those talks were followed up on to show that we are serious.  I'm dying to see them.

 
Strawman.  What I said (meant anyway) is that we are pursuing diplomatic solutions with these countries.  I've read numerous accounts of American officials in talks with these south and central American countries.  

You're looking for simplistic 'solutions' (because really, you're a simpleton)...and you're not going to get any.  Especially if your representatives don't represent anything except their party.

If the goal is to change the rules so that these kids can be returned to their home countries immediately, I predict the right will be on board.  Want to make any predictions about your side?  Because if there's resistance to that rule being changed I don't think it's so crazy to predict that it comes from someone on the left, Jackie.  And as the article linked in the OP points out, pushing for a change to this rule hasn't been Obama's focus at all.  
You forgot to add AFTER he VOTED AGAINST IT under Eisenhower.
Your example, is one explanation of why our friends in the south seem to hate our federal government so much.  

It forces them to stop discriminating, forces them to allow Blacks to vote, and add to that, it allows Black and White folks to marry each other.  Lawdy - no wonder they hate our government so!!

What you think and predict does not really interest me sana, because I find you flippant and insincere.   Never did really.  

[sana8410]

Please, point me in the direction of where talks have occurred in which we declared point blank that these kids were being returned immediately and then those talks were followed up on to show that we are serious.  I'm dying to see them.

 
Strawman.  What I said (meant anyway) is that we are pursuing diplomatic solutions with these countries.  I've read numerous accounts of American officials in talks with these south and central American countries.  

You're looking for simplistic 'solutions' (because really, you're a simpleton)...and you're not going to get any.  Especially if your representatives don't represent anything except their party.

If the goal is to change the rules so that these kids can be returned to their home countries immediately, I predict the right will be on board.  Want to make any predictions about your side?  Because if there's resistance to that rule being changed I don't think it's so crazy to predict that it comes from someone on the left, Jackie.  And as the article linked in the OP points out, pushing for a change to this rule hasn't been Obama's focus at all.  
You forgot to add AFTER he VOTED AGAINST IT under Eisenhower.
Your example, is one explanation of why our friends in the south seem to hate our federal government so much.  

It forces them to stop discriminating, forces them to allow Blacks to vote, and add to that, it allows Black and White folks to marry each other.  Lawdy - no wonder they hate our government so!!

What you think and predict does not really interest me sana, because I find you flippant and insincere.   Never did really.  

And back to posts filled with only personal attacks.  Shocking.If you're wondering what the president's focus was on, it was on blaming republicans.  So there's that.

[umair127]

Please, point me in the direction of where talks have occurred in which we declared point blank that these kids were being returned immediately and then those talks were followed up on to show that we are serious.  I'm dying to see them.

 
Strawman.  What I said (meant anyway) is that we are pursuing diplomatic solutions with these countries.  I've read numerous accounts of American officials in talks with these south and central American countries.  

You're looking for simplistic 'solutions' (because really, you're a simpleton)...and you're not going to get any.  Especially if your representatives don't represent anything except their party.

If the goal is to change the rules so that these kids can be returned to their home countries immediately, I predict the right will be on board.  Want to make any predictions about your side?  Because if there's resistance to that rule being changed I don't think it's so crazy to predict that it comes from someone on the left, Jackie.  And as the article linked in the OP points out, pushing for a change to this rule hasn't been Obama's focus at all.  
You forgot to add AFTER he VOTED AGAINST IT under Eisenhower.
Your example, is one explanation of why our friends in the south seem to hate our federal government so much.  

It forces them to stop discriminating, forces them to allow Blacks to vote, and add to that, it allows Black and White folks to marry each other.  Lawdy - no wonder they hate our government so!!

What you think and predict does not really interest me sana, because I find you flippant and insincere.   Never did really.  

And back to posts filled with only personal attacks.  Shocking.If you're wondering what the president's focus was on, it was on blaming republicans.  So there's that.

Yes, only personal attacks.  Well, except for that page I tried to seriously discuss this.Because really, the important thing is whether the president has actually deported approximately 2 million, or only approximately 1,678,392 depending on how they're counted.    Don't you know.   Now where's that emoticon.  

[sana8410]

Yes, you are always very serious until you were shown to be wrong or can no longer make your point.  Then come the posts with no other content aside from personal attacks and insults. 
If you had to only post on topic, I tend to think your head would explode eventually. 
Back to the topic.  Would you support the change to the trafficking victims protection act cited in the article in order to allow these kids to be returned immediately?  Do you think that your representatives will, or the president for that matter? 

[umair127]

Yes, you are always very serious until you were shown to be wrong or can no longer make your point.  Then come the posts with no other content aside from personal attacks and insults. 
If you had to only post on topic, I tend to think your head would explode eventually. 
Back to the topic.  Would you support the change to the trafficking victims protection act cited in the article in order to allow these kids to be returned immediately?  Do you think that your representatives will, or the president for that matter? 

Depends entirely on what the bill says.  Returned immediately under what conditions, under which agreements and guarantees by their own governments?

Bills are debated and revised on the floor.   But first they have to be brought to the floor!

[zolace]

Yes, you are always very serious until you were shown to be wrong or can no longer make your point.  Then come the posts with no other content aside from personal attacks and insults. 
If you had to only post on topic, I tend to think your head would explode eventually. 
Back to the topic.  Would you support the change to the trafficking victims protection act cited in the article in order to allow these kids to be returned immediately?  Do you think that your representatives will, or the president for that matter? 

Depends entirely on what the bill says.  Returned immediately under what conditions, under which agreements and guarantees by their own governments?

Bills are debated and revised on the floor.   But first they have to be brought to the floor!

You are struggling with the facts.  Obama wanted the House to pass comprehensive reform.  The sticking point for the GOP is border security first because they do not trust the measures in any comprehensive bill will be done once they bill is passed.  Now really, can you think of any reason..like maybe a dozen or more...why they should trust the guy who has told more lies than Pinocchio and only selectively enforces his own law and those already on the books? 

That bill would exactly zero to mitigate this border situation.  Obama, hrumpting about that, is now going to use his phone and his pen to....um....er....uh....he'll let you know.

[sana8410]

Because really, the important thing is whether the president has actually deported approximately 2 million, or only approximately 1,678,392 depending on how they're counted.    Don't you know.   Now where's that emoticon.  

Dishonest.  If you take away the inflated counts, deportation is actually down under this president.  You can try to make that sound as flippant and inconsequential as you like, but for a person who was just trying to argue that this president has deported more than any other president in modern history, you should probably just stop already.

[umair127]

Yes, you are always very serious until you were shown to be wrong or can no longer make your point.  Then come the posts with no other content aside from personal attacks and insults. 
If you had to only post on topic, I tend to think your head would explode eventually. 
Back to the topic.  Would you support the change to the trafficking victims protection act cited in the article in order to allow these kids to be returned immediately?  Do you think that your representatives will, or the president for that matter? 

Depends entirely on what the bill says.  Returned immediately under what conditions, under which agreements and guarantees by their own governments?

Bills are debated and revised on the floor.   But first they have to be brought to the floor!

You are struggling with the facts.  Obama wanted the House to pass comprehensive reform.  The sticking point for the GOP is border security first because they do not trust the measures in any comprehensive bill will be done once they bill is passed.  Now really, can you think of any reason..like maybe a dozen or more...why they should trust the guy who has told more lies than Pinocchio and only selectively enforces his own law and those already on the books? 

That bill would exactly zero to mitigate this border situation.  Obama, hrumpting about that, is now going to use his phone and his pen to....um....er....uh....he'll let you know.

And you're trying to make a "fact" out of the idioty that the president "has told more lies than Pinnochio and is not to be trusted".This is pointless.
 And you know what...it's going to continue to be pointless until and unless every single teabagging asshat is voted out on his can.

[zolace]

Yes, you are always very serious until you were shown to be wrong or can no longer make your point.  Then come the posts with no other content aside from personal attacks and insults.  
If you had to only post on topic, I tend to think your head would explode eventually.  
Back to the topic.  Would you support the change to the trafficking victims protection act cited in the article in order to allow these kids to be returned immediately?  Do you think that your representatives will, or the president for that matter?  

Depends entirely on what the bill says.  Returned immediately under what conditions, under which agreements and guarantees by their own governments?

Bills are debated and revised on the floor.   But first they have to be brought to the floor!

You are struggling with the facts.  Obama wanted the House to pass comprehensive reform.  The sticking point for the GOP is border security first because they do not trust the measures in any comprehensive bill will be done once they bill is passed.  Now really, can you think of any reason..like maybe a dozen or more...why they should trust the guy who has told more lies than Pinocchio and only selectively enforces his own law and those already on the books?  

That bill would exactly zero to mitigate this border situation.  Obama, hrumpting about that, is now going to use his phone and his pen to....um....er....uh....he'll let you know.

And you're trying to make a "fact" out of the idioty that the president "has told more lies than Pinnochio and is not to be trusted".This is pointless.
 And you know what...it's going to continue to be pointless until and unless every single teabagging asshat is voted out on his can.

Are you seriously going to try to pretend the president is not largely views as, shall we say, less than forthright?   Why don't you scroll through this link.  Take your time, four pages of his bullshit is a lot to cover and this isn't even a comprehensive list:
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/statements/byruling/false/    

[Rigon]

Right now we've got a bunch of Cliven Bundy wannabes forcing buses loaded with immigrants..women and children and teens -  on their way to detention in California from Texas forcing them off the road to turn around.  It would not surprise me if we see gunplay on the freeway.   Because freedom and liberty.

[Ron~Popeil]

Which of you  can claim one single person who does NOT think that the flood of illegal immigrants, refugees, whatever label you want to give them, pouring across the border is NOT a problem?   That's the accusation, either said or implied, that I keep reading here. 

The president sure as hell knows it's a problem....he has deported more than any previous modern president, including George W. Bush ...est. nearly 2 million.  He HAS "tightened security"...again, beyond anything any previous president did.    The sitting on their thumbs Congress sure as hell knows it's a problem.  They just won't do anything except squirm on their thumbs and blame it on the president.

Enough with the Dream Act blaming.  It was a common sense, compassionate, humane solution to path to citizenship for those under-30s who have been here since childhood and know nothing else except for all intents they ARE Americans.  That it started a false rumor mill in Central America is no one's fault except the rumor-spreaders.   

The president is doing all he can within the constraints of the executive.  HE CAN'T ALLOCATE THE MONEY to "militarize the border" by phone or pen, HE CAN'T PASS THE LAWS - some of these are international law -  HE CAN ONLY FOLLOW THEM, AND HE CAN ONLY SIGN THEM after they are passed by the congress.   Nothing has been passed, and word is nothing will be.   HELLO???

If he takes further exec order action, you'll howl.  If he doesn't, you'll howl.   Either shut the fuck up or get down to the border and start shooting...men, women, teens and kids.    You first.

So sick of this useless carping, just to carp.

Enjoying the kool aid? This "my guy can do no wrong" attitude about politics is a big part of the current problem in this country.