Do you really earn more money because you went to college?

[TwinWinNerD]

700 euro per year for 5 years = spending more than earning? Hm.
This might be in the US, but only insane people go live there. 

700euros per year for college means people that don't go to college pay for people that do go for college, poor innovation, poor quality, lots of waste, bad administration and a useless degree at the end because too many people will get a degree

You lost the money you could have earned in 5years, the skills and connections you would have got as well

You just said that any colledge in Austria is bad because it's 700 euros per semester/year (not exactly sure right now anymore)
You have no idea what you're talking about. 

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It is quite the opposite, US colleges are way more bloated and inefficient. They increase the cost of tuition way faster than the actual incurred costs for them...

Austria is a very small country, still has some top 100 ranked college degree programs (BSC, MA, MBA and MSC)

[1715111814]

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[1715111814]

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[1715111814]

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[S133p]

700 euro per year for 5 years = spending more than earning? Hm.
This might be in the US, but only insane people go live there. 

700euros per year for college means people that don't go to college pay for people that do go for college, poor innovation, poor quality, lots of waste, bad administration and a useless degree at the end because too many people will get a degree

You lost the money you could have earned in 5years, the skills and connections you would have got as well

You just said that any colledge in Austria is bad because it's 700 euros per semester/year (not exactly sure right now anymore)
You have no idea what you're talking about. 

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It is quite the opposite, US colleges are way more bloated and inefficient. They increase the cost of tuition way faster than the actual incurred costs for them...

Austria is a very small country, still has some top 100 ranked college degree programs (BSC, MA, MBA and MSC)

This is true. and the fact that there are no requirements to borrow for college make it so colleges have zero incentive to try to keep costs in line.

[leex1528]

You were not suppose to work for minimum wage for more than a few months with a college degree

Minimum wage is horrible for persons who are not worth the minimum wage because they cannot get their first work experience to move up on the ladder : it is horrible for the least skilled and those who need a job the most

US don't create good jobs atm, just partial jobs in the service sector, often at the minimum wage and college graduates and 40years old with kids take those jobs that should go to unemployed unskilled workers

We know that...That is basically what we said in both our posts.  We said if you didn't go to college and just started at a minimum wage job and moved up the ladder, versus someone who went to college and paid back loans how much money  you made/lost between the 2 people.

[martinnew]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

[cinder]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

There are over supply of college educated kids, MBA and lawyers.

Law of supply and demand will mean wages have to go down for the "elite" due to competition.

[ProfMac]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

There are over supply of college educated kids, MBA and lawyers.

Law of supply and demand will mean wages have to go down for the "elite" due to competition.

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

[leex1528]

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

A lot of jobs are starting to not care about a degree as much as experience....

That being said, a lot of "Business" degree jobs just require any degree, they don't care.

Where I went to school for Computer Science and am finding it tough to get a job at programming.  Everywhere I look everyone wants 3-5 years of experience coding with no degree required...

I have an IT job at a help desk but I wouldn't mind trying programming out for a living..

[cinder]

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

A lot of jobs are starting to not care about a degree as much as experience....

That being said, a lot of "Business" degree jobs just require any degree, they don't care.

Where I went to school for Computer Science and am finding it tough to get a job at programming.  Everywhere I look everyone wants 3-5 years of experience coding with no degree required...

I have an IT job at a help desk but I wouldn't mind trying programming out for a living..

If you like coding job, join a few open source projects. You will get noticed fast if you are good at what you are doing.

[DrG]

Back of the napkin math -
Start working 2000 hrs/yr @ 16 years old taking home $30k (assuming no taxes since with credit/deductions you can go +/-). By age 36 you make 20x$30k = $600k (skipping interest).

If you do a cardiology fellowship after medschool/residency you will have worked for 6 years making $35k/yr (salaried resident so no minimum wage bonus for you) which let's say for the sake of argument would cover your student loans (not if you went private but we'll average it out with state schools). You'll make $200k/yr take home those 3 years leading up to age 36.

So by 36 the min wage adult and the cardiologist are even. Except the min wager could have a house almost paid off (possibly might even be working on house #2). Oh and the practitioner has also studied/worked about 2.5x as many hours as the min wager.

If the med school bound idiot (yes, now he is an idiot if he goes to medical school) changes to work 2 full time min wage jobs making $15/hr (assuming work is available) from age 16 he'll almost always be ahead by age 40, and if he invested wisely will have an insurmountable lead on any physician.

I bring up $15/hr since Seattle recently decided to bump up the minimum wage to that.  San Diego is considering $13/hr.

That would be great and all, but the min wage is not even close to $15/hr for most of the states. 

A more accurate min wage would be $7.25(Which is what most 16 year olds will get)  So that means they will bring  home roughly 10k a year after taxes.  So with nothing after 20 years the min wage will have 200k which is a lot more accurate.

Granted, that isn't usually the case people don't sit at min wage for 20 years, they move up through the ladder and get a better job.

Students are pretty much getting screwed along with the minimum wage being way to low in order for people to pay their debts. 

While numerically there may be several states that don't pay $10/hr, most urban states (where the majority of the population of the US resides) is paying well above $8.50.  CA will be $10 minimum statewide in 5 months.  The urban cities pay much higher since cost of living is higher (hence why you see $13 and $15 minimum living wages popping up).

If you do happen to live in one of those places where the minimum is $7.25 it's even easier to buy a house.  My wife live in KY for 3 years and bought a large house for $80K - same house would have cost $500K here in CA.  So even though the wage might be 1/2 as much, housing is insanely cheaper.  Electricity, heating gas and water are cheaper there too.  Only things like gasoline tend to run the same price around the country.

Either way my point is minimum wage can result in a nice nest egg if people discipline themselves like professionals going through 12 years of schooling.

[Watoshi-Dimobuto]

I think in most occasions the answer is yes. In my case I would have trouble getting hired with my current job now if it was not for my degree.

[leex1528]

While numerically there may be several states that don't pay $10/hr, most urban states (where the majority of the population of the US resides) is paying well above $8.50.  CA will be $10 minimum statewide in 5 months.  The urban cities pay much higher since cost of living is higher (hence why you see $13 and $15 minimum living wages popping up).

If you do happen to live in one of those places where the minimum is $7.25 it's even easier to buy a house.  My wife live in KY for 3 years and bought a large house for $80K - same house would have cost $500K here in CA.  So even though the wage might be 1/2 as much, housing is insanely cheaper.  Electricity, heating gas and water are cheaper there too.  Only things like gasoline tend to run the same price around the country.

Either way my point is minimum wage can result in a nice nest egg if people discipline themselves like professionals going through 12 years of schooling.

That just isn't true:/

http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/america.htm

As you can see the min wage is around 7-8 dollars in over 2/3's of the states.  Min wage != cheaper houses either...Most places around here are $300k+ for a decent, 400K+ for a nice house.

Even the townhouses avg cost for a 1 garage is around $130k.

Min wage should be around 11/hr for everyone

[Habeler876]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

There are over supply of college educated kids, MBA and lawyers.

Law of supply and demand will mean wages have to go down for the "elite" due to competition.

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

This is a very good point. I graduated in 2009 and a few big law firms in my area went belly up in 2008-2010. For a couple years, I was competing with out-of-work lawyers for shitty legal support work. Go figure.

Sure, going the uneducated route is fine if you have brains, ability and start-up capital. But you may be edged out of the market when you need a job the most.

[Bitsaurus]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

There are over supply of college educated kids, MBA and lawyers.

Law of supply and demand will mean wages have to go down for the "elite" due to competition.

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

This is a very good point. I graduated in 2009 and a few big law firms in my area went belly up in 2008-2010. For a couple years, I was competing with out-of-work lawyers for shitty legal support work. Go figure.

Sure, going the uneducated route is fine if you have brains, ability and start-up capital. But you may be edged out of the market when you need a job the most.

Why work to get an education and a degree and a job in such a situation.  All those low paying jobs earners end up receiving less in compensation than a full time welfare collector - and the welfare collector doesn't have to worry about getting hired while looking for a job.

Well there is that dignity thing, but I think that's gone today.

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

There are over supply of college educated kids, MBA and lawyers.

Law of supply and demand will mean wages have to go down for the "elite" due to competition.

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

This is a very good point. I graduated in 2009 and a few big law firms in my area went belly up in 2008-2010. For a couple years, I was competing with out-of-work lawyers for shitty legal support work. Go figure.

Sure, going the uneducated route is fine if you have brains, ability and start-up capital. But you may be edged out of the market when you need a job the most.

Passing on a college degree is a gamble.  You can certainly do better than those with college education, but the odds are against you.  Sure, there are some without degrees that have made it big, but they are few and far between.  Even if you have great ideas for businesses, inventions, etc., there are a lot of things that you can learn in college that will help you succeed at your endeavors.

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

While numerically there may be several states that don't pay $10/hr, most urban states (where the majority of the population of the US resides) is paying well above $8.50.  CA will be $10 minimum statewide in 5 months.  The urban cities pay much higher since cost of living is higher (hence why you see $13 and $15 minimum living wages popping up).

If you do happen to live in one of those places where the minimum is $7.25 it's even easier to buy a house.  My wife live in KY for 3 years and bought a large house for $80K - same house would have cost $500K here in CA.  So even though the wage might be 1/2 as much, housing is insanely cheaper.  Electricity, heating gas and water are cheaper there too.  Only things like gasoline tend to run the same price around the country.

Either way my point is minimum wage can result in a nice nest egg if people discipline themselves like professionals going through 12 years of schooling.

Expenses don't scale linearly.  Houses may be cheaper in places with a smaller minimum wage, but that doesn't make them more affordable for those who are making minimum wage.  Cost of living matters for things besides houses, of course, but those making minimum wage are going to be spending most of their money on food, clothing, gas, etc.

[iluvbitcoins]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

There are over supply of college educated kids, MBA and lawyers.

Law of supply and demand will mean wages have to go down for the "elite" due to competition.

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

This is a very good point. I graduated in 2009 and a few big law firms in my area went belly up in 2008-2010. For a couple years, I was competing with out-of-work lawyers for shitty legal support work. Go figure.

Sure, going the uneducated route is fine if you have brains, ability and start-up capital. But you may be edged out of the market when you need a job the most.

Passing on a college degree is a gamble.  You can certainly do better than those with college education, but the odds are against you.  Sure, there are some without degrees that have made it big, but they are few and far between.  Even if you have great ideas for businesses, inventions, etc., there are a lot of things that you can learn in college that will help you succeed at your endeavors.

such as?

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

There are over supply of college educated kids, MBA and lawyers.

Law of supply and demand will mean wages have to go down for the "elite" due to competition.

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

This is a very good point. I graduated in 2009 and a few big law firms in my area went belly up in 2008-2010. For a couple years, I was competing with out-of-work lawyers for shitty legal support work. Go figure.

Sure, going the uneducated route is fine if you have brains, ability and start-up capital. But you may be edged out of the market when you need a job the most.

Passing on a college degree is a gamble.  You can certainly do better than those with college education, but the odds are against you.  Sure, there are some without degrees that have made it big, but they are few and far between.  Even if you have great ideas for businesses, inventions, etc., there are a lot of things that you can learn in college that will help you succeed at your endeavors.

such as?

Things like communications skills, writing skills, a whole host of technical skills, networking with people, and even personal growth can be very beneficial.  Despite getting solid engineering degrees, I probably learned more about myself and other people than the subjects I studied.  I also formed some of the best relationships of my life.  I don't think that would have been possible without being in a setting where I was surrounded solely by other people my own age.

[ANTIcentralized]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

There are over supply of college educated kids, MBA and lawyers.

Law of supply and demand will mean wages have to go down for the "elite" due to competition.

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

This is a very good point. I graduated in 2009 and a few big law firms in my area went belly up in 2008-2010. For a couple years, I was competing with out-of-work lawyers for shitty legal support work. Go figure.

Sure, going the uneducated route is fine if you have brains, ability and start-up capital. But you may be edged out of the market when you need a job the most.

Passing on a college degree is a gamble.  You can certainly do better than those with college education, but the odds are against you.  Sure, there are some without degrees that have made it big, but they are few and far between.  Even if you have great ideas for businesses, inventions, etc., there are a lot of things that you can learn in college that will help you succeed at your endeavors.

such as?

Things like communications skills, writing skills, a whole host of technical skills, networking with people, and even personal growth can be very beneficial.  Despite getting solid engineering degrees, I probably learned more about myself and other people than the subjects I studied.  I also formed some of the best relationships of my life.  I don't think that would have been possible without being in a setting where I was surrounded solely by other people my own age.

This is a very good point. However you do not need to get a college degree (finish your degree) to have these skills. You really only need to attend college for "several" semesters.

[williamevanl]

Simply, yes, a lot more. A lot of college graduates (With good degrees, not psychology! ) quickly make $80,000 a year. My friends that didn't go to college don't even typically make half that, sometimes closer to 1/4 of that.

This is literally a job where I work where you just circle shapes all day. It pays ~50K starting out but requires a college degree. My mind was kind of blown when I realized how much more college graduates have the ability to make simply because people feel better about the work they do because they have college degrees. (not that it necessarily confers any type of advantage)

[TheJohn]

Simply, yes, a lot more. A lot of college graduates (With good degrees, not psychology! ) quickly make $80,000 a year. My friends that didn't go to college don't even typically make half that, sometimes closer to 1/4 of that.

This is literally a job where I work where you just circle shapes all day. It pays ~50K starting out but requires a college degree. My mind was kind of blown when I realized how much more college graduates have the ability to make simply because people feel better about the work they do because they have college degrees. (not that it necessarily confers any type of advantage)

It really depends on how the college fee was spend. If someone use it for some nice business I believe they are already earning more then 6 digit a year..