Do you really earn more money because you went to college?

[boumalo]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

[1714145209]

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[acs267]

I'm going to a University, and I already know most of the time that diploma means SHIT. Some people aren't even going to go in the field they studied for, or, they're looking for jobs in the wrong places. Going to college means shit. It doesn't guarantee a good path, meaning, some people won't earn more money.

[leex1528]

Unfortunately nowadays the Diploma does very little.  It is more about experience gained and who you know.  All you are left with is tons of debt that will take you 1/4 of your life to pay back....Things need to change.

[zhinkk]

I'm going to a University, and I already know most of the time that diploma means SHIT. Some people aren't even going to go in the field they studied for, or, they're looking for jobs in the wrong places. Going to college means shit. It doesn't guarantee a good path, meaning, some people won't earn more money.

True. But what option am I really left with? Risk it with a high school diploma plus maybe some vocational training/certificates? It sucks how the current system has developed into, but I really have no choice if I want to be making a high salary with a secure job (80k+).

[Lethn]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

I chose to stay unemployed and and not work to get into university/college so I could build my business from essentially nothing and getting educated in two subjects, technically three, Jewellery Making, Gemstone Setting and Artwork all for the price of what would be considered a university degree essentially, I sincerely doubt I would be able to get the kind of one to one education I am getting now where I am than if I went to university and took one of the same subjects.

I'd like to see a link to this Federal Reserve 'study' looks to me like more of the same kind of bullshit mathematics and research I am used to when looking at politics which is all this is about.

p.s. You guys may have noticed my thread hasn't been updating awhile and that's because I'm working hard on getting projects finished and I'm learning new Jewellery techniques, I also got some awesome Topaz's in from Thailand just recently so I'll be setting my first faceted stones!

p.s.s Up yours any university professors who work in the Artwork/Jewellery fields if you happen to be reading this

True. But what option am I really left with? Risk it with a high school diploma plus maybe some vocational training/certificates? It sucks how the current system has developed into, but I really have no choice if I want to be making a high salary with a secure job (80k+).

Honestly, if we were in the past economy I would have agreed with you, but Bitcoin for me at least has changed everything, all you need to set up most businesses now is a Bitcoin Payment processor, a website and a skillset or service you can use that people will want to buy and that's the way it should be. I just recently had a look at the jobs listing and the situation is still pretty ridiculous since so many employers are asking for industry experience and university degrees it's no wonder you don't have anyone young getting employed, it's the employers fault not the people applying!

[rohnearner]

I can't say exactly if thats gonna help me or not because I still have to finish my college maybe a year more. and at this point I can say its not the worst decision I ever took , although there were not much options available, and with the amount of competition around it always help if you are holding something in your hand. although thousands other carrying the same thing but atleast now you'll get a chance to compete with them.   

[Lauda]

Do you? The question is rather funny.
Go to college --> become neurosurgeon (I highly doubt that you could achieve this without college) --> http://www.healthcareworkersalary.com/physicians/neurosurgeon-salary/?doing_wp_cron=1404423480.4343879222869873046875

Stop trying to find a way to get out of studying.
 

[Brewins]

Do you? The question is rather funny.
Go to college --> become neurosurgeon (I highly doubt that you could achieve this without college) --> http://www.healthcareworkersalary.com/physicians/neurosurgeon-salary/?doing_wp_cron=1404423480.4343879222869873046875

Stop trying to find a way to get out of studying.
 

Now show the study that compares the efford and costs to become neurosurgeon invested in others fields

[Lethn]

Yeah, that kind of thinking is incredibly biased and saying someone not wanting to get a degree is just trying to get out of studying is pretty insulting to people who study independently and in fact learn more and better that way.

[Lauda]

Yeah, that kind of thinking is incredibly biased and saying someone not wanting to get a degree is just trying to get out of studying is pretty insulting to people who study independently and in fact learn more and better that way.

Who said that I wasn't trying to insult such people?

[cech4204a]

I attended college since i was somehow forced to do it, it was expected from me to do it and i did it. I think if i had free will i wouldn't attend, but now i'm happy i did. Somehow i see stuff different and i like the fact that i can get better job, but i'm still jobless

[Brewins]

Yea ppl,really stop makin the impossible to quit school. There are many ways to make money but is always roguish of course but anyway. Just be on the principle to study what you like and everybody will be happy   in perpetuity.

many people get rich without degree. Some examples:


http://oddtale.com/top-7-rich-people-without-college-degree/


Others made great contributions to their fields without degree(ex: Faraday)


al rogue people, of course

[nickenburg]

Probably, but I hope bitcoin will reach a unbelievable high price.
And then I will earn more money then someone that went to collage!
But still people that got a diploma and that are not making 100k> a year.
I feel sorry for them because all there lives they will have to work for there house, and everything else.

[CEG5952]

If you don't know people who can put you on, a degree is an easy first way employers separate the wheat from the chaff. Getting your foot in the door is half the battle. Knowing how to deal with people and bullshit your way through life -- that's the other half. If you don't have that, a degree probably won't get you too far.

[Skele]

No, unfortunately here in Mexico it is more profitable selling Tacos than performing studies...

[Bitcoin Magazine]

no, because of college i tried weed and it messed up my brain.  now i can't get a job (disabled).

[jaberwock]

If I didn't go to College I will not know about computers, Probably I could not have a job. I think it is worth it.

[bitmaster111]

no, because of college i tried weed and it messed up my brain.  now i can't get a job (disabled).

you do not get a job because you don't want to do the job college gives you the degree and knowledge and makes you eligible for any interview you can't blame on your college life if you say you started weed in college there is also new thing which is added into your life means something is growing in your life .

[silvercane]

College is to educate not to allow you to earn more money. Sure the qualifications enable you to get a higher paying job as you'll be qualified for it, but this is only because without the college education you would nt know what you are doing
Employers prefer qualified employees and people who know what they are doing...of course depending on the field, college graduates look better than your average high school pass.

No, College does not earn you more money, but it certainly does enable you to earn more money.

[300]

STEP 1: GO TO COLLEGE
STEP 2: DROP OUT

Most successful people dropped out of college. Notice the word "dropped out". This is different from having never attended. Bill Gates (Microsoft), Steve Jobs (Apple), Mark Zuckerberg (Facebook), Richard Branson* (Virgin), Michael Dell (Dell), Larry Ellison (Oracle), Larry Page and Sergey Brin* (Google), Sean Parker (Napster and the first President of Facebook), the guy who made CNN, the list goes on...

Got a computer? Chances are, it's running either Windows (Gates) or OS X (Jobs). Got a phone? It's probably either an iPhone (Jobs), a Windows phone (Gates), or an Android phone (Page/Brin). Want to look something up? You'll probably either use Google (Page/Brin) or Bing (Gates).

*Technically, Branson was a high school dropout and the guys from Google dropped out of their postgrad programs but you get the idea.

EDIT: Elon Musk (Tesla) also dropped out of his postgrad:

He moved to California to pursue a PhD in applied physics at Stanford but left the program after two days to pursue his entrepreneurial aspirations in the areas of the Internet, renewable energy and outer space.

EDIT 2: The Ethereum guy, another dropout:

So what’s his background? Buterin attended college for a year -- and then left due to Bitcoin opportunities. "I don’t regret it," he said. "Look at what I’m doing now."

So the message seems to be that in order to be successful, generally you need to go to college (well, except Branson). But if there is one common thread that unites the most successful people of the world, then it is the fact that they proceeded to drop out of college in order to follow their dreams and aspirations.

Not to mention college dropouts are over-represented among list of the billionaires.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_dropout_billionaires

The average net worth of billionaires who dropped out of college, $9.4 billion, is approximately triple that of billionaires with Ph.D.s, $3.2 billion. Even if one removes Bill Gates, who left Harvard University and is now worth $66.0 billion, college dropouts are worth $5.3 billion on average, compared to those who finished only bachelor's degrees, who are worth $2.9 billion.

[roxannemmorganB599]

Of course it does. Knowledge = money. And college is the easiest way to learn knowledge and get some good connections. You can use later in finding jobs or creating a business.

[silvercane]

STEP 1: GO TO COLLEGE
STEP 2: DROP OUT

Most successful people dropped out of college. Notice the word "dropped out". This is different from having never attended. Bill Gates (Microsoft), Steve Jobs (Apple), Mark Zuckerberg (Facebook), Richard Branson* (Virgin), Michael Dell (Dell), Larry Ellison (Oracle), Larry Page and Sergey Brin* (Google), Sean Parker (Napster and the first President of Facebook), the guy who made CNN, the list goes on...

Got a computer? Chances are, it's running either Windows (Gates) or OS X (Jobs). Got a phone? It's probably either an iPhone (Jobs), a Windows phone (Gates), or an Android phone (Page/Brin). Want to look something up? You'll probably either use Google (Page/Brin) or Bing (Gates).

*Technically, Branson was a high school dropout and the guys from Google dropped out of their postgrad programs but you get the idea.

EDIT: Elon Musk (Tesla) also dropped out of his postgrad:

He moved to California to pursue a PhD in applied physics at Stanford but left the program after two days to pursue his entrepreneurial aspirations in the areas of the Internet, renewable energy and outer space.

EDIT 2: The Ethereum guy, another dropout:

So what’s his background? Buterin attended college for a year -- and then left due to Bitcoin opportunities. "I don’t regret it," he said. "Look at what I’m doing now."

So the message seems to be that in order to be successful, generally you need to go to college (well, except Branson). But if there is one common thread that unites the most successful people of the world, then it is the fact that they proceeded to drop out of college in order to follow their dreams and aspirations.

Not to mention college dropouts are over-represented among list of the billionaires.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_dropout_billionaires

The average net worth of billionaires who dropped out of college, $9.4 billion, is approximately triple that of billionaires with Ph.D.s, $3.2 billion. Even if one removes Bill Gates, who left Harvard University and is now worth $66.0 billion, college dropouts are worth $5.3 billion on average, compared to those who finished only bachelor's degrees, who are worth $2.9 billion.

Very interesting
I knew about jobs dropping out only because of the movie (lol) but I had no idea that most of these people dropped out of college

[bitcoinforhelp]

There is corelation between education and earnings, but mainly its how you do in business

[acsalles]

Answer is YES, Sure

[boumalo]

There is corelation between education and earnings, but mainly its how you do in business

Earnings are higher for educated people but if you factor in the fact that educated people are smarter, more connected before going into college, hungrier for success and the cost of college do you really earn more money because you went to college?

[CEG5952]

no, because of college i tried weed and it messed up my brain.  now i can't get a job (disabled).

Disabled from smoking weed -- haha, funny joke.

But seriously, I tell you, the key to life is bullshitting people. Trying to pad your resume without the experience will only get you so far. It takes more than a degree, but it can help you get your foot in the door, certainly.

[TrailingComet]

unequivocally no
skill sets and degrees are not necessarily correlated
Great article by Reid Hoffman given below

http://reidhoffman.org/disrupting-the-diploma/

[bluefirecorp]

no, because of college i tried weed and it messed up my brain.  now i can't get a job (disabled).

Jesus will cure you. Just accept Jesus into your heart. (Not the mexican jesus, the 'MURICAN Jesus)

[Newbiemon]

Well IMO, it depends on the individual itself, for example if one have a diploma but doesn't have a drive or eagerness to succeed then i think he would likely to fail in his/her endeavor.

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

It depends a lot on what field you eventually go into and what you make of your college experience.  Some jobs, like engineering, require a college education so you at least know the basics.  But there are a lot of areas that don't require a college diploma to do well.

[bitmarket.io]

college is for the brain dead

[bitgeek]

I went and had trouble getting a decent job. I know people who didn't go and have nice, well paid jobs. My current job has nothing to do with my education, so don't go if you don't want to

[Katarina]

The money spend on college would be better spend on business or investment instead.

[ShibaWow]

The money spend on college would be better spend on business or investment instead.

for example investing in bitcoin

if the money spent on collages was spent on bitcoin 4-5 years ago

you would be a millionaire

[argovian]

When I graduated High School ('97) my parents immediately pushed me into College. I hated it and felt I could make more money by not going, so I skipped classes and eventually dropped out.

After working several unfulfilling hourly jobs, (Dell Phone Support, PC Tech @ Local Shop, Pharmacy Tech, Helpdesk Manager for a Subprime Lender) I realized I had peaked and wasn't going to be increasing my earnings any more. (I was in my early 20's at that point). None of the director's/execs & the Lender took me seriously or considered me anything more than a phone monkey.

At first I decided I would fill my wall with Tech Certifications, A+, and MCSE. But even when openings in the network support team came open, I was passed over for transfer/promotion.

So I decided to go back to school at night. It took me another 5 years of night school to finish my bachelors. Luckily for me the Lender offered Tuition reimbursement so I only came out with ~$10k in student Loans. As When I was within 1 semester of getting my diploma I told my boss & his boss that I wanted to move into Project Management or into the Software Development team. (I was getting a BS in Computer Science).

They nodded (as they always did) and I kept plugging along working on my Diploma. When I finally got it Dec 2007 nearly 10 years after I had started this process, I told my bosses they needed to get the wheels moving. (I knew the software dept had openings as some of my friends worked there).

I also started interviewing for entry level Software Dev. jobs with other Friend's companies. When I got my offer from my current employer my salary was instantly raised ~$20k.
After switching companies and working for my new firm for the last 6 years now, I've more than doubled my salary.

Would I have gotten the job or advancement without my degree? I seriously doubt it.
Do I use what I learned from College? Maybe once in a blue moon.

I think that the degree shows people that you:
A.) Have the ability to learn
B.) Can focus on objectives to complete complex tasks.

I don't think that people need to take all the BS classes colleges force down your throat. Like all the Literature classes they forced me to take, Physical Wellness Classes, or Art Appreciation. I mean seriously by the time you get to college, if you don't know that eating junk food all day and sitting at a computer makes you fat, you got other issues.

[zhinkk]

STEP 1: GO TO COLLEGE
STEP 2: DROP OUT

Most successful people dropped out of college. Notice the word "dropped out". This is different from having never attended. Bill Gates (Microsoft), Steve Jobs (Apple), Mark Zuckerberg (Facebook), Richard Branson* (Virgin), Michael Dell (Dell), Larry Ellison (Oracle), Larry Page and Sergey Brin* (Google), Sean Parker (Napster and the first President of Facebook), the guy who made CNN, the list goes on...

Got a computer? Chances are, it's running either Windows (Gates) or OS X (Jobs). Got a phone? It's probably either an iPhone (Jobs), a Windows phone (Gates), or an Android phone (Page/Brin). Want to look something up? You'll probably either use Google (Page/Brin) or Bing (Gates).

*Technically, Branson was a high school dropout and the guys from Google dropped out of their postgrad programs but you get the idea.

EDIT: Elon Musk (Tesla) also dropped out of his postgrad:

He moved to California to pursue a PhD in applied physics at Stanford but left the program after two days to pursue his entrepreneurial aspirations in the areas of the Internet, renewable energy and outer space.

EDIT 2: The Ethereum guy, another dropout:

So what’s his background? Buterin attended college for a year -- and then left due to Bitcoin opportunities. "I don’t regret it," he said. "Look at what I’m doing now."

So the message seems to be that in order to be successful, generally you need to go to college (well, except Branson). But if there is one common thread that unites the most successful people of the world, then it is the fact that they proceeded to drop out of college in order to follow their dreams and aspirations.

Not to mention college dropouts are over-represented among list of the billionaires.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_dropout_billionaires

The average net worth of billionaires who dropped out of college, $9.4 billion, is approximately triple that of billionaires with Ph.D.s, $3.2 billion. Even if one removes Bill Gates, who left Harvard University and is now worth $66.0 billion, college dropouts are worth $5.3 billion on average, compared to those who finished only bachelor's degrees, who are worth $2.9 billion.

I can't tell if you're serious. Yes, the dropped out. But they were also very intelligent and had a great idea that became very successful. What about the thousands of people who dropped out and are living a shitty life right now? But I'm going to take your post as a joke and move on.

[josephliton]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

    High school drop outs: $18,734
    High school graduates: $27,915
    College grads (with a bachelor’s degree): $51,206
    Advanced degree holders: $74,602

[blitzcrank]

No, unfortunately here in Mexico it is more profitable selling Tacos than performing studies...

Damn thats a lot of tacos to sell. The only way out of that be a franchise model within mexico similar to So Cal of "Kings Taco".

Chiptole is eating that market though, so not sure lol.

[atc1]

If you're absolutely sure that you want to go into the field you're studying,yes. If you're still floundering about with the idea of your career,then no. And only specialized science degrees count,not if you do English Lit or Pol Science.

[blitzcrank]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

    High school drop outs: $18,734
    High school graduates: $27,915
    College grads (with a bachelor’s degree): $51,206
    Advanced degree holders: $74,602

I know this can be debated depending on the college tuition of going to that particular college.

But whats the average college debt for a student. $23,000? hopefully to pay it off within in a year? this is outside from other personal debts of course, with living costs. If you think $23,000 is small money you have no idea then. Plus I forgot the interest thats added.

And thats if you get a job right.

[Candystripes]

It's honestly retarded how much more they pay for graduates. Yes I earn way more because of my diploma. Just a sheet of paper.

[300]

It depends a lot on what field you eventually go into and what you make of your college experience.  Some jobs, like engineering, require a college education so you at least know the basics.  But there are a lot of areas that don't require a college diploma to do well.

True. For some jobs (like an engineer or a surgeon, for example), there is really no other choice than going to college. Nobody is going to let you perform brain surgery or design a bridge if you don't hold the relevant qualifications. Then there are jobs like scientist and so on where a college degree is a huge help, but not technically mandatory. And then finally there are jobs like entrepreneur or programmer where a degree doesn't really help that much, if at all.

[Bizmark13]

The money spend on college would be better spend on business or investment instead.

for example investing in bitcoin

if the money spent on collages was spent on bitcoin 4-5 years ago

you would be a millionaire

This is so true. Too bad I came into Bitcoin a year too late. I made a thread about this a while ago titled "You are transported to January 2013. What do you do?":

What would you do if you were transported to January 2013?

I would:

Buy $2,000 worth of Tesla stock at $30, sell at $250 in March 2014. Profit = $17,000
Buy $2,000 worth of bitcoins at $13, sell at $1200 in November. Profit = $200,000
Buy $2,000 worth of litecoins at $0.07, sell at $48 in November. Profit = $1,400,000!!

Then I would retire.

Instead, being the idiot that I am, I did the following:

Bought 1 year of college education for $6,000, unable to sell. Profit = $0.

[Lorenzo]

STEP 1: GO TO COLLEGE
STEP 2: DROP OUT

Most successful people dropped out of college. Notice the word "dropped out". This is different from having never attended. Bill Gates (Microsoft), Steve Jobs (Apple), Mark Zuckerberg (Facebook), Richard Branson* (Virgin), Michael Dell (Dell), Larry Ellison (Oracle), Larry Page and Sergey Brin* (Google), Sean Parker (Napster and the first President of Facebook), the guy who made CNN, the list goes on...

Got a computer? Chances are, it's running either Windows (Gates) or OS X (Jobs). Got a phone? It's probably either an iPhone (Jobs), a Windows phone (Gates), or an Android phone (Page/Brin). Want to look something up? You'll probably either use Google (Page/Brin) or Bing (Gates).

*Technically, Branson was a high school dropout and the guys from Google dropped out of their postgrad programs but you get the idea.

EDIT: Elon Musk (Tesla) also dropped out of his postgrad:

He moved to California to pursue a PhD in applied physics at Stanford but left the program after two days to pursue his entrepreneurial aspirations in the areas of the Internet, renewable energy and outer space.

EDIT 2: The Ethereum guy, another dropout:

So what’s his background? Buterin attended college for a year -- and then left due to Bitcoin opportunities. "I don’t regret it," he said. "Look at what I’m doing now."

So the message seems to be that in order to be successful, generally you need to go to college (well, except Branson). But if there is one common thread that unites the most successful people of the world, then it is the fact that they proceeded to drop out of college in order to follow their dreams and aspirations.

Not to mention college dropouts are over-represented among list of the billionaires.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_dropout_billionaires

The average net worth of billionaires who dropped out of college, $9.4 billion, is approximately triple that of billionaires with Ph.D.s, $3.2 billion. Even if one removes Bill Gates, who left Harvard University and is now worth $66.0 billion, college dropouts are worth $5.3 billion on average, compared to those who finished only bachelor's degrees, who are worth $2.9 billion.

You forgot to mention the founders of Oculus, Snapchat, WordPress, Dropbox and Tumblr. If I remember correctly, the latter dropped out of high school at 14. Pretty amazing if you ask me.

It depends a lot on what field you eventually go into and what you make of your college experience.  Some jobs, like engineering, require a college education so you at least know the basics.  But there are a lot of areas that don't require a college diploma to do well.

True. For some jobs (like an engineer or a surgeon, for example), there is really no other choice than going to college. Nobody is going to let you perform brain surgery or design a bridge if you don't hold the relevant qualifications. Then there are jobs like scientist and so on where a college degree is a huge help, but not technically mandatory. And then finally there are jobs like entrepreneur or programmer where a degree doesn't really help that much, if at all.

We seem to be in agreement here.

I can't tell if you're serious. Yes, the dropped out. But they were also very intelligent and had a great idea that became very successful. What about the thousands of people who dropped out and are living a shitty life right now? But I'm going to take your post as a joke and move on.

Most of his examples (and thus his definition of "successful") seem to be tech entrepreneurs. It probably doesn't translate to other fields.

[JerryCurlzzz]

yeahhhh, i'm pretty sure most people aren't going to strike it rich founding a groundbreaking company.

NEXT.

[HarryT1923]

doctors and lawyers seem to make good money.

[hollowframe]

i make decent money, having gotten a 4 year degree. dunno wtf i'd be doing without one.

[Jamie_Boulder]

I enrolled myself as a trainee into a large company straight out of high school and slaved there for about 2 years, after finishing my schooling (which they paid for) I was eligible for a real job which was a starting salary of 50k a year.

Would pick this path a thousand times over because while everyone @20 years was still poor and in uni I bought my first investment at 21.

[Lethn]

I enrolled myself as a trainee into a large company straight out of high school and slaved there for about 2 years, after finishing my schooling (which they paid for) I was eligible for a real job which was a starting salary of 50k a year.

Would pick this path a thousand times over because while everyone @20 years was still poor and in uni I bought my first investment at 21.

That's the thing, everyone in University/College may be acting smug and superior now but I can guarantee when a great depression rolls around they'll be running around in a panic like headless chickens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u40mJ_ls5VE

Oh and adding to that every person I chat to over the internet about university/College seems bitter as fuck and unconvincingly tells me about how important it is I think even though my path is a difficult one I think I've made the correct one for the long term, I'd also like to point out as well now that a couple of my friends who aren't in university have already come back from doing courses and stuff and they're trying to figure out what to do with their lives because they didn't plan ahead.

Exact same thing will happen with the people I know going to University or more than likely they'll get a job in something that has absolutely nothing to do with what they originally studied, I can tell you something personal but my brother went for a masters degree in History and now he's basically doing tech support and fixing computers because that's where his skillset is. There's only one person I know of who actually went and did what they studied and that's his g/f but that's because she planned ahead properly and decided what she wanted to do and took the right degree and the right specialisation.

gg education system.

I would like to point out that I don't actually have anything against the idea of someone getting a degree in general, but you damn well better make sure you don't waste 4 years of your life studying sociology or any bullshit like that when you want to just be an electrician or something, no matter how much people try to beat it into you it just isn't worth the amount of time you waste.

[boumalo]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

    High school drop outs: $18,734
    High school graduates: $27,915
    College grads (with a bachelor’s degree): $51,206
    Advanced degree holders: $74,602

I know this can be debated depending on the college tuition of going to that particular college.

But whats the average college debt for a student. $23,000? hopefully to pay it off within in a year? this is outside from other personal debts of course, with living costs. If you think $23,000 is small money you have no idea then. Plus I forgot the interest thats added.

And thats if you get a job right.

You have to count average college tuition per year * number of years + what you would have won if you didn't go to college and interests on all that = more than 100,000$

You have to count the revenues after tax so the difference is less between grads and non grads because grads pay more taxes

Then you have to take factor in that high schools graduates, college grads and advances degree holders were smarter, more connected and more success driven even before going into studies so they would have perform better than average anyway!!

[HarmonLi]

smugness on one side, bitterness on the other.

[leex1528]

It is absolutely insane.  I have a computer science degree and am working at a help desk right now.

So I apply to companies to be a programmer.

"We are looking for someone with experience"

How are you looking for someone with experience at an entry level job....ummmm what

[boumalo]

It is absolutely insane.  I have a computer science degree and am working at a help desk right now.

So I apply to companies to be a programmer.

"We are looking for someone with experience"

How are you looking for someone with experience at an entry level job....ummmm what

When everyone has a degree, the value of each degree goes down

The number of good jobs is going down because of heavy regulation and the state intervening in most markets; on the last job report we can clearly see a huge loss in full-time jobs replaced by part-time jobs

[LostDutchman]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

Nope.

Never earned a Goddamned dime from any of my four degrees.

[bluefirecorp]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

Nope.

Never earned a Goddamned dime from any of my four degrees.

Seems like an obvious solution would be to get a fifth degree!

[LostDutchman]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

Nope.

Never earned a Goddamned dime from any of my four degrees.

Seems like an obvious solution would be to get a fifth degree!

Yeah, I got that for sure!

A Doctorate in The School of Hard Knocks!

[bluefirecorp]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

Nope.

Never earned a Goddamned dime from any of my four degrees.

Seems like an obvious solution would be to get a fifth degree!

Yeah, I got that for sure!

A Doctorate in The School of Hard Knocks!

Why not do a thesis on Funny Walks?

[LostDutchman]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

Nope.

Never earned a Goddamned dime from any of my four degrees.

Seems like an obvious solution would be to get a fifth degree!

Yeah, I got that for sure!

A Doctorate in The School of Hard Knocks!

Why not do a thesis on Funny Walks?

Not a bad idea but it's been done:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZlBUglE6Hc

[bluefirecorp]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

Nope.

Never earned a Goddamned dime from any of my four degrees.

Seems like an obvious solution would be to get a fifth degree!

Yeah, I got that for sure!

A Doctorate in The School of Hard Knocks!

Why not do a thesis on Funny Walks?

Not a bad idea but it's been done:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZlBUglE6Hc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk

(and it was a pun)

[LostDutchman]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

Nope.

Never earned a Goddamned dime from any of my four degrees.

Seems like an obvious solution would be to get a fifth degree!

Yeah, I got that for sure!

A Doctorate in The School of Hard Knocks!

Why not do a thesis on Funny Walks?

Not a bad idea but it's been done:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZlBUglE6Hc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk

(and it was a pun)

I know, I was just having some fun!

[zee11224]

I think this totally depends on you. In my case I think I will hardly earn money and would not be accepted to my current job If haven't went to College.

[CounterStrike]

Prefer to keep the money spend on college and use the time to work on McDonald. Use the saving to start up bitcoin investment or business.

[boumalo]

Prefer to keep the money spend on college and use the time to work on McDonald. Use the saving to start up bitcoin investment or business.

If you start working early you can build work experience and you have time to innovate and be recognised in your field; some positions are only filled with college graduates though

I think this totally depends on you. In my case I think I will hardly earn money and would not be accepted to my current job If haven't went to College.

You would have done something else and you would not be in debt or have more money

[TeseracT]

NO, it depends on country you live in, highly educated people from my country are washing dishes in Germany, because they got more pay than for teaching at our University   ......

[boumalo]

NO, it depends on country you live in, highly educated people from my country are washing dishes in Germany, because they got more pay than for teaching at our University   ......

The thing is you make more money when you go to college but it costed you lost of income and tuition fees and you make more money because you are likely to be smarter, more connected, from a more affluant family and more eager to succeed plus everyone knows that because you went to college

[MilesJohan]

Going to college actually spend more money then making more money. You can use the 5 years time in college to work as anything and most probably manager level after 5 years.

[Lauda]

Going to college actually spend more money then making more money. You can use the 5 years time in college to work as anything and most probably manager level after 5 years.

700 euro per year for 5 years = spending more than earning? Hm.
This might be in the US, but only insane people go live there. 

[boumalo]

Going to college actually spend more money then making more money. You can use the 5 years time in college to work as anything and most probably manager level after 5 years.

700 euro per year for 5 years = spending more than earning? Hm.
This might be in the US, but only insane people go live there. 

700euros per year for college means people that don't go to college pay for people that do go for college, poor innovation, poor quality, lots of waste, bad administration and a useless degree at the end because too many people will get a degree

You lost the money you could have earned in 5years, the skills and connections you would have got as well

[Daniel91]

Not at all!
I finished 2 colleges in my country but couldn't find job in my profession.
Now, I'm happy to work for low salary and have any job.
College can give you education but can't give you job.

[the_K_man]

In most cases yes, furthering your education allows people with higher qualifications to be paid more than those with less... but ultimately in depends on the person itself and what they make out of their lives

[zhinkk]

Not at all!
I finished 2 colleges in my country but couldn't find job in my profession.
Now, I'm happy to work for low salary and have any job.
College can give you education but can't give you job.

What country do you live in? I feel like certain county's colleges have more credibility and value than others. For example, a "normal" college in India probably has way less value than a "normal" state college in USA.

[Argwai96]

On average, it's hard to say. I'm inclined to say yes. Anecdotal experience may vary. Most people I knew who went to college have solid employment now, and probably on average make more money. But people don't always like to talk about this stuff.

[tsm]

simple concept to understand.

I dont like to borrow money, esp when thats huge amount and most people find it they can pay it back.

If you can then your just buying the name of the school you went, and its about what you go on about getting that job to pay it back when your 55 years old.

[300]

Going to college actually spend more money then making more money. You can use the 5 years time in college to work as anything and most probably manager level after 5 years.

700 euro per year for 5 years = spending more than earning? Hm.
This might be in the US, but only insane people go live there. 

700 euros per year is very cheap for a college education. It costs about 5 times that where I live.

[scarsbergholden]

getting that job to pay it back when your 55 years old.

Well, it's a matter of degree as well. I know people who borrowed 6 figures for an undergrad degree. That's crazy. But borrowing 50% or 100% of a year's salary? That's not that crazy.

[BTCfaucetTIME]

getting that job to pay it back when your 55 years old.

Well, it's a matter of degree as well. I know people who borrowed 6 figures for an undergrad degree. That's crazy. But borrowing 50% or 100% of a year's salary? That's not that crazy.

It really depends on your degree. If you are getting a degree in finance that can pay 6 figures after 2 years then borrowing 3 years salary would not be a big deal as it can be paid back and the salary is much higher then that if you didn't have a degree.

What I think is crazy is people paying anything at all for degrees like history or English as these degrees are generally worthless.

[300]

getting that job to pay it back when your 55 years old.

Well, it's a matter of degree as well. I know people who borrowed 6 figures for an undergrad degree. That's crazy. But borrowing 50% or 100% of a year's salary? That's not that crazy.

It really depends on your degree. If you are getting a degree in finance that can pay 6 figures after 2 years then borrowing 3 years salary would not be a big deal as it can be paid back and the salary is much higher then that if you didn't have a degree.

What I think is crazy is people paying anything at all for degrees like history or English as these degrees are generally worthless.

History professor? English professor? History teacher? English teacher? Although for the latter two, you might need a teaching qualification as well.

[scarsbergholden]

getting that job to pay it back when your 55 years old.

Well, it's a matter of degree as well. I know people who borrowed 6 figures for an undergrad degree. That's crazy. But borrowing 50% or 100% of a year's salary? That's not that crazy.

It really depends on your degree. If you are getting a degree in finance that can pay 6 figures after 2 years then borrowing 3 years salary would not be a big deal as it can be paid back and the salary is much higher then that if you didn't have a degree.

What I think is crazy is people paying anything at all for degrees like history or English as these degrees are generally worthless.

A degree in finance that can pay 6 figures after 2 years? Yeah, that doesn't exist, or at least statistically not worth discussing. I'd disagree as well with the latter point, assuming the graduates are willing to work admin/communications/marketing/etc jobs and not married to academia.

[JennaK]

I'm currently going to University to be a pharmacist.. I hope I earn more money!

[scarsbergholden]

I'm currently going to University to be a pharmacist.. I hope I earn more money!

I once knew a pharmacist. He made really good money if I remember right. He didn't have a permanent full-time job, but he would fill in at various pharmacies in the area once or twice a week and still seemed to live really well.

[300]

I'm currently going to University to be a pharmacist.. I hope I earn more money!

I once knew a pharmacist. He made really good money if I remember right. He didn't have a permanent full-time job, but he would fill in at various pharmacies in the area once or twice a week and still seemed to live really well.

Not a bad life. Working only 1 or 2 days a week and having the rest for yourself would be pretty good. Sort of like the opposite of what normal people have to go through. I wonder why more doctors, surgeons, bankers, etc. don't do this. I know a dentist who is 62 but is still working at his own clinic for the past 30 years. He even works on Saturdays and works until 5 o'clock. With that sort of income, I would have paid off my student loans and retired in my 30's.

[BitcoinHeroes]

I'm currently going to University to be a pharmacist.. I hope I earn more money!

I once knew a pharmacist. He made really good money if I remember right. He didn't have a permanent full-time job, but he would fill in at various pharmacies in the area once or twice a week and still seemed to live really well.

Not a bad life. Working only 1 or 2 days a week and having the rest for yourself would be pretty good. Sort of like the opposite of what normal people have to go through. I wonder why more doctors, surgeons, bankers, etc. don't do this. I know a dentist who is 62 but is still working at his own clinic for the past 30 years. He even works on Saturdays and works until 5 o'clock. With that sort of income, I would have paid off my student loans and retired in my 30's.

I don't think pharmacist only work 1 or 2 days per week, it should be 40 hours or more..

[leex1528]

Not a bad life. Working only 1 or 2 days a week and having the rest for yourself would be pretty good. Sort of like the opposite of what normal people have to go through. I wonder why more doctors, surgeons, bankers, etc. don't do this. I know a dentist who is 62 but is still working at his own clinic for the past 30 years. He even works on Saturdays and works until 5 o'clock. With that sort of income, I would have paid off my student loans and retired in my 30's.

I personally think a lot of people actually like work.  Like they are not happy unless they are working, or fear of doing nothing.  A good buddy of mine is like this, granted they will always bitch about how busy they are and it sucks they have no free time, but you can tell they really enjoy being busy.  You can tell these people apart because when they do have free time, they are constantly working on "side projects" and making sure they have no free time.

[spazzdla]

Yes, but I came out with zero debt as well..  I took Electrical engineering technology in Canada and it cost me probably 15k total for 3.5 years with 3 6 month paid co-op terms.  I currently work in my field making a lot more than minimum.

I would NEVER recommend spending a lot of money on school.

[haploid23]

Well just think if there was no such thing as school or education. Do you think anyone would be qualified for today's jobs that require a shit ton of education? If you needed surgery, would you want a random guy on the street to perform it on you? There's definitely a need to qualify people for certain jobs through education.

[CEG5952]

Well just think if there was no such thing as school or education. Do you think anyone would be qualified for today's jobs that require a shit ton of education? If you needed surgery, would you want a random guy on the street to perform it on you? There's definitely a need to qualify people for certain jobs through education.

Certainly -- there is some level of specialization that we want to see. I think the issue for many is more so the culture of everybody going to college, which means most people pursue non-specialized liberal arts degrees. I can understand from that perspective a bit more.

[boumalo]

I'm currently going to University to be a pharmacist.. I hope I earn more money!

I once knew a pharmacist. He made really good money if I remember right. He didn't have a permanent full-time job, but he would fill in at various pharmacies in the area once or twice a week and still seemed to live really well.

Not a bad life. Working only 1 or 2 days a week and having the rest for yourself would be pretty good. Sort of like the opposite of what normal people have to go through. I wonder why more doctors, surgeons, bankers, etc. don't do this. I know a dentist who is 62 but is still working at his own clinic for the past 30 years. He even works on Saturdays and works until 5 o'clock. With that sort of income, I would have paid off my student loans and retired in my 30's.

Maybe it's not money they are after, did you think of that?

[leex1528]

The big problem back 30 years ago was going to College gave you a leg up on another person, it wasn't mandatory but it definitely helped you out!


Nowadays by not going to College it actually hurts you because so many other people are going to college....so yes even a job managing a Mcdonalds may be a college grad vs someone who isn't, and they will go with the College graduate most of the time...

[wunkbone]

The big problem back 30 years ago was going to College gave you a leg up on another person, it wasn't mandatory but it definitely helped you out!


Nowadays by not going to College it actually hurts you because so many other people are going to college....so yes even a job managing a Mcdonalds may be a college grad vs someone who isn't, and they will go with the College graduate most of the time...

The problem is you might have to spend about $100,000 and above for a degree unless you get scholarship. The $100,000 can make good money from business or investment.

[leex1528]

The problem is you might have to spend about $100,000 and above for a degree unless you get scholarship. The $100,000 can make good money from business or investment.

Are you suggesting to invest the $100,000 into something else?  The problem with that is most people don't actually have the 100k, they take out loans about loans that they end up paying the rest of their life.

If I had 100k back then to invest I would have easily been fine, I didn't I went to college and took out student loans unfortunately.

[wunkbone]

The problem is you might have to spend about $100,000 and above for a degree unless you get scholarship. The $100,000 can make good money from business or investment.

Are you suggesting to invest the $100,000 into something else?  The problem with that is most people don't actually have the 100k, they take out loans about loans that they end up paying the rest of their life.

If I had 100k back then to invest I would have easily been fine, I didn't I went to college and took out student loans unfortunately.

Just curious, can the loan be taken out and use as something else then to pay for college?

[leex1528]

Just curious, can the loan be taken out and use as something else then to pay for college?

No, you can't take a student loan out and not use it to pay for college.  Usually you don't even touch the loan, however I know I was sent a little extra during tuition time for books and stuff.  So I was technically able to spend that money on other stuff....

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

The big problem back 30 years ago was going to College gave you a leg up on another person, it wasn't mandatory but it definitely helped you out!

Nowadays by not going to College it actually hurts you because so many other people are going to college....so yes even a job managing a Mcdonalds may be a college grad vs someone who isn't, and they will go with the College graduate most of the time...

Very true.  At least in some disciplines, a bachelor's is the new high school diploma, and a master's is the new bachelor's.

The problem is you might have to spend about $100,000 and above for a degree unless you get scholarship. The $100,000 can make good money from business or investment.

This doesn't have to be true.  If you go to one of your state's public universities, you'll probably pay no more than half of that for tuition.  If you need to cut costs further, you could go to a community college for the first two years and then transfer.  Community college shouldn't cost you more than a few thousand a year for tuition.

[leex1528]

This doesn't have to be true.  If you go to one of your state's public universities, you'll probably pay no more than half of that for tuition.  If you need to cut costs further, you could go to a community college for the first two years and then transfer.  Community college shouldn't cost you more than a few thousand a year for tuition.

It is slightly cheaper if you go to a state college in your state, but you will still rack up easily 50k in just tuition, and then top that with books, room and food  you probably will hit 75k....

School is a sick sick idea of buying a piece of paper for a lot of money, then getting a job with that piece of paper so you can pay off the loans in which you took to acquire that piece of paper...stupid cycle!

[ahri]

Just curious, can the loan be taken out and use as something else then to pay for college?

No, you can't take a student loan out and not use it to pay for college.  Usually you don't even touch the loan, however I know I was sent a little extra during tuition time for books and stuff.  So I was technically able to spend that money on other stuff....

What are you talking about, I seen people who pull out the loan stating they go to school, but end up buying a car.

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

This doesn't have to be true.  If you go to one of your state's public universities, you'll probably pay no more than half of that for tuition.  If you need to cut costs further, you could go to a community college for the first two years and then transfer.  Community college shouldn't cost you more than a few thousand a year for tuition.

It is slightly cheaper if you go to a state college in your state, but you will still rack up easily 50k in just tuition, and then top that with books, room and food  you probably will hit 75k....

That is likely true.

School is a sick sick idea of buying a piece of paper for a lot of money, then getting a job with that piece of paper so you can pay off the loans in which you took to acquire that piece of paper...stupid cycle!

True for some fields, but necessary for others.  Although I'm also biased because I got my degrees over a decade ago when prices were a lot cheaper.  I was able to get a BS for around $40k for everything, including books and R&B.

[leex1528]

What are you talking about, I seen people who pull out the loan stating they go to school, but end up buying a car.

I am assuming they took out a Bank loan.  If you take out a FAFSA loan and purchase a car with it, I can't imagine that would end well for you seeing as it is 100% illegal in the USA. 

[tabareseduardo]

there are just some situtions when people left the college and even so earnt a lot of money, but the is more successful people who dedicate a lot of years to study. Study hard and you will get the results, the problem is the education system, in USA the college is the more expesive on earth, but why the ''richest'' country on heart cannot do something about it??? just leae the young people without giving the chance to have decent college studies, but in other case Sweden the tuition is free, because they know the valuable recourse on a country are the people and the students.

[ahri]

You should go to school if you cant become an entrepreneur.

Its simple as that, cant make cash flow  you need work for someone else.

[ProfMac]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

As a scientist, I wonder what data exists.  I have found this on the web.

Using table P-16 from the link.

For men aged 25 years and older, the median 2012 income was:

Code:

$18,002  Less than 9th grade
$19,780  9th through 12th grade
$31,064  12th grade graduate
$41,730  Associate degree
$56,656  Bachelor's degree
$71,364  Master's degree
$91,472  Doctoral degree

I have seen a table where this is broken down into annual age bins, instead of totals for everyone over age 25.  I have not found that this morning.

I can play a bit with these numbers.  Assume that someone will work from age 25 to age 65, or 40 years.  Assume that they can borrow money at the prime interest rate of 3.25%.

Then play a bit with the numbers.  For illustration only, pretend that using the median income and projecting out for 40 years gives good guidance.

($56,656/yr (bachelors) - $31,064/yr (high school graduate) ) / 12 (month/yr) = $2,132 / month income difference for Bachelor's.

Next, find how much money you can borrow, with a 40 year payoff of $2,132/month and 3.25% interest.  This is how much money you can pay for the degree and come out financially neutral, but still enjoy the other benefits of education, such as better health, higher home ownership, and lower involvement with law enforcement.

Code:

$572,288  highest profitable cost of bachelor's degree.
$451,076  interest paid to lender on this amount.

I view this analysis as guidance for public policy, e.g., should the government support student loans or even free college education.  This numbers are real data for groups of people, individual results will vary.  A more detailed analysis would take into account unemployment, life expectancy, family size by age, and income tax obligations.

[ProfMac]

If you want to use data in your discussion, access exists to microdata, and the ability to pull custom reports.

[Snorek]

I'm going to a University, and I already know most of the time that diploma means SHIT. Some people aren't even going to go in the field they studied for, or, they're looking for jobs in the wrong places. Going to college means shit. It doesn't guarantee a good path, meaning, some people won't earn more money.

And this is the sad truth. Nowadays college education is so depraved that it means almost nothing. If you have friends and connections you are just fine. They want diploma for basic office work.

[ahri]

I got a friend who went to UCI - and then forced to become a realtor since theres no ones hiring and needs money.

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

there are just some situtions when people left the college and even so earnt a lot of money, but the is more successful people who dedicate a lot of years to study. Study hard and you will get the results, the problem is the education system, in USA the college is the more expesive on earth, but why the ''richest'' country on heart cannot do something about it??? just leae the young people without giving the chance to have decent college studies, but in other case Sweden the tuition is free, because they know the valuable recourse on a country are the people and the students.

How does Sweden determine who goes to college and who doesn't?  Can anyone go who wants to, or is it very selective?

In the US, it's a supply and demand problem.  Demand for a college education keeps increasing, and the student loans business and government enable it by approving a lot of loans that perhaps they shouldn't approve.  It seems like a lot of times, more emphasis is placed on getting a college education than on getting a good or worthwhile college education.

[ArbatDeli]

I got a friend who went to UCI - and then forced to become a realtor since theres no ones hiring and needs money.

Anecdotal experience is anecdotal.

[gelar24]

This is very true haha

I did not go to college because it takes a lot of money

I think not tap into college can also generate a lot of money, just how we look for smart smart: D

[Bobsurplus]

I'm a high school drop out and thanks to crypto I'm retired.

 

[ArbatDeli]

I'm a high school drop out and thanks to crypto I'm retired.

 

Are you really retired, or just not working for now?

[Bobsurplus]

I'm a high school drop out and thanks to crypto I'm retired.

 

Are you really retired, or just not working for now?

Done! Bought a few thousand btc early on, sold at 250 and 1000 and have retired since.
I have a few properties, a healthy bank account and a few old school cold wallets put away for safe keeping!
For all intensive purposes I've retired. I do however maintain 3 rental properties that I own, some people call that work. I call it living!

Viva la Bitcoin and Cloakcoin!

[ArbatDeli]

I'm a high school drop out and thanks to crypto I'm retired.

 

Are you really retired, or just not working for now?

Done! Bought a few thousand btc early on, sold at 250 and 1000 and have retired since.
I have a few properties, a healthy bank account and a few old school cold wallets put away for safe keeping!
For all intensive purposes I've retired. I do however maintain 3 rental properties that I own, some people call that work. I call it living!

Viva la Bitcoin and Cloakcoin!

Wow, kind of jealous. One or two more bubbles and I may be able to do the same.

[akali]

Simple answer is no.

Your just taking a chance like everyone else.

[ArbatDeli]

Simple answer is no.

Your just taking a chance like everyone else.

That's not the case. Not everyone has the same intelligence or ambition. Some will be more successful than others given a college education.

[akali]

Simple answer is no.

Your just taking a chance like everyone else.

That's not the case. Not everyone has the same intelligence or ambition. Some will be more successful than others given a college education.

You wont be successful if majority took the same route. I say chance like a lotto ticket because its not a guarantee to a job.

But you`ll have to pay $20k thats for sure certain. Keep in mind, that you cant or erase for file a chapter 7 bankcruptcy on student loans, so people planning not to pay back good luck with that.

And by the time you made your money in a white collar job, your not really enjoying esp when your old as hell.

You mind as well take that route though, if you dont have a plan to make some real money. People settle for whatever, some people settle for $30,000 per month its up to the person.

[TRYpolar]

Simple answer is no.

Your just taking a chance like everyone else.

That's not the case. Not everyone has the same intelligence or ambition. Some will be more successful than others given a college education.

Would you really say that college would allow success to happen because someone is smart

[akali]

Simple answer is no.

Your just taking a chance like everyone else.

That's not the case. Not everyone has the same intelligence or ambition. Some will be more successful than others given a college education.

Would you really say that college would allow success to happen because someone is smart

Yes, yes, you will be successful if you go to college and be smart.

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

Simple answer is no.

Your just taking a chance like everyone else.

That's not the case. Not everyone has the same intelligence or ambition. Some will be more successful than others given a college education.

You wont be successful if majority took the same route. I say chance like a lotto ticket because its not a guarantee to a job.

But you`ll have to pay $20k thats for sure certain. Keep in mind, that you cant or erase for file a chapter 7 bankcruptcy on student loans, so people planning not to pay back good luck with that.

And by the time you made your money in a white collar job, your not really enjoying esp when your old as hell.

You mind as well take that route though, if you dont have a plan to make some real money. People settle for whatever, some people settle for $30,000 per month its up to the person.

What does old have to do with anything? 

The guys have the money but the reason they don't get to enjoy their money is because 99% of them are married to women and the women are the ones who get to enjoy the money.  A lot of white collar professionals out there with money-spending wives and four kids who would be happier if they had remained a bachelor and spent their money on cars, boats and hot escorts.

That's a sad outlook on life.  I would have more money if I didn't have a family, but there's no way I'd make that trade.  What's the point in having a lot of money if you don't have someone to share it with?

[Bobsurplus]

I'm a high school drop out and thanks to crypto I'm retired.

 

Are you really retired, or just not working for now?

Done! Bought a few thousand btc early on, sold at 250 and 1000 and have retired since.
I have a few properties, a healthy bank account and a few old school cold wallets put away for safe keeping!
For all intensive purposes I've retired. I do however maintain 3 rental properties that I own, some people call that work. I call it living!

Viva la Bitcoin and Cloakcoin!

Wow, kind of jealous. One or two more bubbles and I may be able to do the same.

Thanks man, but dont be jealous, you can do it too!

[boumalo]

Simple answer is no.

Your just taking a chance like everyone else.

That's not the case. Not everyone has the same intelligence or ambition. Some will be more successful than others given a college education.

You wont be successful if majority took the same route. I say chance like a lotto ticket because its not a guarantee to a job.

But you`ll have to pay $20k thats for sure certain. Keep in mind, that you cant or erase for file a chapter 7 bankcruptcy on student loans, so people planning not to pay back good luck with that.

And by the time you made your money in a white collar job, your not really enjoying esp when your old as hell.

You mind as well take that route though, if you dont have a plan to make some real money. People settle for whatever, some people settle for $30,000 per month its up to the person.

What does old have to do with anything? 

The guys have the money but the reason they don't get to enjoy their money is because 99% of them are married to women and the women are the ones who get to enjoy the money.  A lot of white collar professionals out there with money-spending wives and four kids who would be happier if they had remained a bachelor and spent their money on cars, boats and hot escorts.

Quite a statement; the bachelor life is fun but a bit empty, building things on the "long term" is more difficult thus more interesting

Stability and children do bring happiness with the correct state of mind and conditions

Simple answer is no.

Your just taking a chance like everyone else.

That's not the case. Not everyone has the same intelligence or ambition. Some will be more successful than others given a college education.

Would you really say that college would allow success to happen because someone is smart

So he would suceed bc he is smart

[Frizork]

Absolutely yes

[boumalo]

Absolutely yes

How are you sure?

[Crypto_G]

Sir Richard Branson and Warren buffet, are proof you do not need a stinking diploma, when you make bank like that you can just buy the university of your choice 

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

Sir Richard Branson and Warren buffet, are proof you do not need a stinking diploma, when you make bank like that you can just buy the university of your choice 

Those are exceptions.  For the vast majority of people, education is very important in one way or another.  Not everyone will benefit from a college degree, but you can't just say that people shouldn't go to college so that they'll become rich.

[HarHarHar9965]

Sir Richard Branson and Warren buffet, are proof you do not need a stinking diploma, when you make bank like that you can just buy the university of your choice 

I can entertain the notion that a degree is not particularly important, in the scheme of things. But this is a really weak argument. No one here is going to wake up tomorrow and work themselves up to being Warren Buffet....

[Baitty]

No you are taught that you will earn money because you have a fancy degree but most companies prefer experience honestly a little piece of paper doesn't go very far when there are millions with that piece of paper. 

[boumalo]

Sir Richard Branson and Warren buffet, are proof you do not need a stinking diploma, when you make bank like that you can just buy the university of your choice 

I can entertain the notion that a degree is not particularly important, in the scheme of things. But this is a really weak argument. No one here is going to wake up tomorrow and work themselves up to being Warren Buffet....

Why not?

Apparently a lot of members don't think you really earn more money because you went to college, think you do earn more money in some fields or because people know you are likely to have some qualities associated with a college degree but if a lot of students made a bad deal going into huge debts and spending years to get a worthless degree

[nsimmons]

I'm a high school drop out and thanks to crypto I'm retired.

 

Are you really retired, or just not working for now?

Done! Bought a few thousand btc early on, sold at 250 and 1000 and have retired since.
I have a few properties, a healthy bank account and a few old school cold wallets put away for safe keeping!
For all intensive purposes I've retired. I do however maintain 3 rental properties that I own, some people call that work. I call it living!

Viva la Bitcoin and Cloakcoin!

If you weren't a high school drop out you would realize the phrase is "intents and purposes" not intensive purposes.

The problem with ignorant, uneducated people is they don't know they are.

[Bobsurplus]

I'm a high school drop out and thanks to crypto I'm retired.

 

Are you really retired, or just not working for now?

Done! Bought a few thousand btc early on, sold at 250 and 1000 and have retired since.
I have a few properties, a healthy bank account and a few old school cold wallets put away for safe keeping!
For all intensive purposes I've retired. I do however maintain 3 rental properties that I own, some people call that work. I call it living!

Viva la Bitcoin and Cloakcoin!

If you weren't a high school drop out you would realize the phrase is "intents and purposes" not intensive purposes.

The problem with ignorant, uneducated people is they don't know they are.

Oh I'm sorry, how about you crawl back under the darkcoin bagholding rock you came from.

[TRex95]

I think you need the right degree if you are to really earn more then if you didn't go to college. If you get a degree in history or art then you are going to make much less then even a high school drop out. If however you get a degree in finance or a law degree then you will likely earn much more then if you did not go to college.

[nwfella]

Umm no but I did meet a couple of really hot chicks in the smoking section between classes though

[HarryT1923]

well, i have a knack for numbers and visualizing "big picture" systems, 3d modeling, etc. mechanical engineering was a natural course for me, and there's no way i could be where i am now without having gone to school.

not saying i couldn't have made more money elsewhere, but i'm also not sure how i would have done it, either.

[Lethn]

well, i have a knack for numbers and visualizing "big picture" systems, 3d modeling, etc. mechanical engineering was a natural course for me, and there's no way i could be where i am now without having gone to school.

not saying i couldn't have made more money elsewhere, but i'm also not sure how i would have done it, either.

I could understand mechanical engineering as that's a very specific field but 3D Modelling you could have picked up on your own, there are thousands of tutorials out there on it, I'm getting back into it again now that I'm improving my 2D art.

Edit: Oh wait, I just realised, mechanical engineering probably includes 3D like architecture stuff doesn't it?

[bridgesro]

My diploma certainly helped me get the job I have now, but I don't earn as much as you would expect in the field (which is why I'm not pursuing a higher level degree; a guy I work with has his Master's and he barely gets paid more than I do). I'd much rather go in business for myself so I can control my own output and influence my own intake.

[nsimmons]

I'm a high school drop out and thanks to crypto I'm retired.

 

Are you really retired, or just not working for now?

Done! Bought a few thousand btc early on, sold at 250 and 1000 and have retired since.
I have a few properties, a healthy bank account and a few old school cold wallets put away for safe keeping!
For all intensive purposes I've retired. I do however maintain 3 rental properties that I own, some people call that work. I call it living!

Viva la Bitcoin and Cloakcoin!

If you weren't a high school drop out you would realize the phrase is "intents and purposes" not intensive purposes.

The problem with ignorant, uneducated people is they don't know they are.

Oh I'm sorry, how about you crawl back under the darkcoin bagholding rock you came from.

Explain to me what it's like to wear your ignorance as a badge of honour. I have a pet guinea pig. I'm sure he thinks he's pretty clever. Is that the case with you? Do you honestly believe it? Deep down you must realize that you failed at the most remedial task expected of a first world participant. How does feel to know that you are most likely the dumbest person on this forum?

I find it quite fascinating. It's like watching a chimpanzee try to paint.

[Lethn]

Explain to me what it's like to wear your ignorance as a badge of honour. I have a pet guinea pig. I'm sure he thinks he's pretty clever. Is that the case with you? Do you honestly believe it? Deep down you must realize that you failed at the most remedial task expected of a first world participant. How does feel to know that you are most likely the dumbest person on this forum?

I find it quite fascinating. It's like watching a chimpanzee try to paint.

The only point you've made on this thread is to correct someone's use of a word which could have been easily mistyped in the wrong way anyway, how exactly are you intelligent? Not to insult any people who have been to college but it is remarkable how people who have been 'educated' seem to think it gives them a right to be incredibly arrogant and condescending to people who aren't and when you dig deeper you generally find they've learned fuck all or have ended up in careers they never studied for in the first place.

I have to give props to anybody who's actually carefully thought out what they picked rather than just took one for the sake of it.

[nsimmons]

Explain to me what it's like to wear your ignorance as a badge of honour. I have a pet guinea pig. I'm sure he thinks he's pretty clever. Is that the case with you? Do you honestly believe it? Deep down you must realize that you failed at the most remedial task expected of a first world participant. How does feel to know that you are most likely the dumbest person on this forum?

I find it quite fascinating. It's like watching a chimpanzee try to paint.

The only point you've made on this thread is to correct someone's use of a word which could have been easily mistyped in the wrong way anyway, how exactly are you intelligent? Not to insult any people who have been to college but it is remarkable how people who have been 'educated' seem to think it gives them a right to be incredibly arrogant and condescending to people who aren't and when you dig deeper you generally find they've learned fuck all or have ended up in careers they never studied for in the first place.

I have to give props to anybody who's actually carefully thought out what they picked rather than just took one for the sake of it.

You only have half the information, besides the conversation doesn't concern you. Bob spent all day stalking people, unsolicited, telling them how stupid they are. Turns out Bob spent his day insulting people who hold advanced degrees in hard sciences, when he himself couldn't even finish high school.

Turns out he doesn't like the favour being returned to him. You are quite welcome to check his post history.

[Bobsurplus]

Explain to me what it's like to wear your ignorance as a badge of honour. I have a pet guinea pig. I'm sure he thinks he's pretty clever. Is that the case with you? Do you honestly believe it? Deep down you must realize that you failed at the most remedial task expected of a first world participant. How does feel to know that you are most likely the dumbest person on this forum?

I find it quite fascinating. It's like watching a chimpanzee try to paint.

The only point you've made on this thread is to correct someone's use of a word which could have been easily mistyped in the wrong way anyway, how exactly are you intelligent? Not to insult any people who have been to college but it is remarkable how people who have been 'educated' seem to think it gives them a right to be incredibly arrogant and condescending to people who aren't and when you dig deeper you generally find they've learned fuck all or have ended up in careers they never studied for in the first place.

I have to give props to anybody who's actually carefully thought out what they picked rather than just took one for the sake of it.

You only have half the information, besides the conversation doesn't concern you. Bob spent all day stalking people, unsolicited, telling them how stupid they are. Turns out Bob spent his day insulting people who hold advanced degrees in hard sciences, when he himself couldn't even finish high school.

Turns out he doesn't like the favour being returned to him. You are quite welcome to check his post history.

LMAO.. I could care less about your degrees. I've made it in life, I no longer need to work and I can spend my time enjoying the company of good friends, family and all you on the forum.

[nsimmons]

Explain to me what it's like to wear your ignorance as a badge of honour. I have a pet guinea pig. I'm sure he thinks he's pretty clever. Is that the case with you? Do you honestly believe it? Deep down you must realize that you failed at the most remedial task expected of a first world participant. How does feel to know that you are most likely the dumbest person on this forum?

I find it quite fascinating. It's like watching a chimpanzee try to paint.

The only point you've made on this thread is to correct someone's use of a word which could have been easily mistyped in the wrong way anyway, how exactly are you intelligent? Not to insult any people who have been to college but it is remarkable how people who have been 'educated' seem to think it gives them a right to be incredibly arrogant and condescending to people who aren't and when you dig deeper you generally find they've learned fuck all or have ended up in careers they never studied for in the first place.

I have to give props to anybody who's actually carefully thought out what they picked rather than just took one for the sake of it.

You only have half the information, besides the conversation doesn't concern you. Bob spent all day stalking people, unsolicited, telling them how stupid they are. Turns out Bob spent his day insulting people who hold advanced degrees in hard sciences, when he himself couldn't even finish high school.

Turns out he doesn't like the favour being returned to him. You are quite welcome to check his post history.

LMAO.. I could care less about your degrees. I've made it in life, I no longer need to work and I can spend my time enjoying the company of good friends, family and all you on the forum.

So you are like the guinea pig. Thanks for answering.

[edit]
Even better, looks like you are also a thief, scam artist and a liar.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=489001.msg7199450#msg7199450
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=639835.260
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=639835.msg7193861#msg7193861

This your as well? Are you actually a con artist too?
http://www.scamchecker.com/content/robert-duskes-scamstoppers.com-scam-company
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641299.0

[dwi0021]

If you have degree you will have higher chance that will get accepted in a job than a non degree holder. You will lose all your money but your degree and education cannot be stolen from you.

[Lethn]

Explain to me what it's like to wear your ignorance as a badge of honour. I have a pet guinea pig. I'm sure he thinks he's pretty clever. Is that the case with you? Do you honestly believe it? Deep down you must realize that you failed at the most remedial task expected of a first world participant. How does feel to know that you are most likely the dumbest person on this forum?

I find it quite fascinating. It's like watching a chimpanzee try to paint.

The only point you've made on this thread is to correct someone's use of a word which could have been easily mistyped in the wrong way anyway, how exactly are you intelligent? Not to insult any people who have been to college but it is remarkable how people who have been 'educated' seem to think it gives them a right to be incredibly arrogant and condescending to people who aren't and when you dig deeper you generally find they've learned fuck all or have ended up in careers they never studied for in the first place.

I have to give props to anybody who's actually carefully thought out what they picked rather than just took one for the sake of it.

You only have half the information, besides the conversation doesn't concern you. Bob spent all day stalking people, unsolicited, telling them how stupid they are. Turns out Bob spent his day insulting people who hold advanced degrees in hard sciences, when he himself couldn't even finish high school.

Turns out he doesn't like the favour being returned to him. You are quite welcome to check his post history.

Oh I checked who was posting the other thing and realised it was bobsurplus, I thought you were going after somebody else, in that case I totally understand bobsurplus is a dick and that's one of his standard tactics, because like most petty people since he can't hurt our feelings he resorts to trying to harass you off the board, luckily there's no moderators here that will go and ban us if any of us call him a fucking moron who needs to stop harassing people.

This is one of the reasons I hang out on Bitcointalk, especially with how fast moderators look to ban me in other places for having disagreements with their established members, just do yourself a favour and put him on your ignore list and you'll be a lot happier, he'll go away eventually despite his efforts to antagonise. You just raised my concerns a bit because I'm probably the most uneducated person in history but I do my best to make sure what I say is cross-checked and actually true but it's also one of the reasons why I can have lots of opinions on things and varied opinions at that.

p.s. I also make sure when I post words I understand them and use dictionary.com lol far better than any school for cross-checking and making sure people understand you.

[Thekool1s]

Within few years there will be no studies. Because online earning is here.

[JennaK]

I'm still paying back my 2 year college course which was useless (business).

[FlyForFun]

Wasted more then $150,000 on college just for a paper..

[cryptasm]

Nope, most of my mates who didn't go to college or uni are on a higher salary than me. They're either tradesmen or running their own business with the bonus of not being saddled with a huge student debt. Personally wouldn't bother with college unless you want to work in a specialised job like a doctor, vet etc.

[Crypto_G]

Each year spent learning in an institution, is one less year you can make buck.

[boumalo]

Each year spent learning in an institution, is one less year you can make buck.

And it will cost you as much as 60k$ + interests in the US

[forever21]

no that is not true
sure that some other company is only looking at your previous school because of its reputation and sometimes not in your skill
i believe that you dont need to have a diploma in able to earn a lot of money you only need a good strategy confidence and a good comunication to earn a better salary like here in my country most of the company here is looking for an individual with a good moral character and came from a very good school they think that when you have a master degree you can do a lot better
but in my opinion experience is still the best rather than the degree

[Essex343]

Each year spent learning in an institution, is one less year you can make buck.

This is true. But the question is -- how much will you be earning? How will you be earning? And might a recent graduate outpace that earning given 5-10 years?

If you are working retail or flipping burgers, that's not gonna work out.

[Wideken]

Depends on the person for some answer is yes for some answer is no, if they think they can't do anything better than working in a qualified job they wont earn more.

[ProfMac]

There is actual data on this question.  A group of college graduates make more money than a matched group who don't go to college.

[Candystripes]

There is actual data on this question.  A group of college graduates make more money than a matched group who don't go to college.

It's actually stupid how much more they pay graduates than non-graduates, even if the non-graduate does the job much better. Just one of the things that makes the world stupid today.

[moonex]

If you work a job as graduated and not graduated of course you will get payed less and for most of the jobs you need diploma but people without graduation start their owns business and they earn even more than graduated people.

[bluefirecorp]

If you work a job as graduated and not graduated of course you will get payed less and for most of the jobs you need diploma but people without graduation start their owns business and they earn even more than graduated people.

For everyone one successful business, there are a hundred that failed. So, one non-graduate did better than all the other graduates. But the other graduates did better than the non-graduate.

Not to mention, graduates can start their own businesses, so I guess my theory is flawed in the same way yours is.

There is actual data on this question.  A group of college graduates make more money than a matched group who don't go to college.

It's actually stupid how much more they pay graduates than non-graduates, even if the non-graduate does the job much better. Just one of the things that makes the world stupid today.

Yes, because having a piece of paper that says you've obtained knowledge is rather stupid. Actually, you do know it takes two people to create a salary negotiation, right? If you're worth an amount of money, fucking get that amount of money. College graduates just have an easier time saying they're worth money because a fancy piece of paper. If you're really a special snowflake, then prove that you are.

[DrG]

Back of the napkin math -
Start working 2000 hrs/yr @ 16 years old taking home $30k (assuming no taxes since with credit/deductions you can go +/-). By age 36 you make 20x$30k = $600k (skipping interest).

If you do a cardiology fellowship after medschool/residency you will have worked for 6 years making $35k/yr (salaried resident so no minimum wage bonus for you) which let's say for the sake of argument would cover your student loans (not if you went private but we'll average it out with state schools). You'll make $200k/yr take home those 3 years leading up to age 36.

So by 36 the min wage adult and the cardiologist are even. Except the min wager could have a house almost paid off (possibly might even be working on house #2). Oh and the practitioner has also studied/worked about 2.5x as many hours as the min wager.

If the med school bound idiot (yes, now he is an idiot if he goes to medical school) changes to work 2 full time min wage jobs making $15/hr (assuming work is available) from age 16 he'll almost always be ahead by age 40, and if he invested wisely will have an insurmountable lead on any physician.

I bring up $15/hr since Seattle recently decided to bump up the minimum wage to that.  San Diego is considering $13/hr.

[leex1528]

Back of the napkin math -
Start working 2000 hrs/yr @ 16 years old taking home $30k (assuming no taxes since with credit/deductions you can go +/-). By age 36 you make 20x$30k = $600k (skipping interest).

If you do a cardiology fellowship after medschool/residency you will have worked for 6 years making $35k/yr (salaried resident so no minimum wage bonus for you) which let's say for the sake of argument would cover your student loans (not if you went private but we'll average it out with state schools). You'll make $200k/yr take home those 3 years leading up to age 36.

So by 36 the min wage adult and the cardiologist are even. Except the min wager could have a house almost paid off (possibly might even be working on house #2). Oh and the practitioner has also studied/worked about 2.5x as many hours as the min wager.

If the med school bound idiot (yes, now he is an idiot if he goes to medical school) changes to work 2 full time min wage jobs making $15/hr (assuming work is available) from age 16 he'll almost always be ahead by age 40, and if he invested wisely will have an insurmountable lead on any physician.

I bring up $15/hr since Seattle recently decided to bump up the minimum wage to that.  San Diego is considering $13/hr.

That would be great and all, but the min wage is not even close to $15/hr for most of the states. 

A more accurate min wage would be $7.25(Which is what most 16 year olds will get)  So that means they will bring  home roughly 10k a year after taxes.  So with nothing after 20 years the min wage will have 200k which is a lot more accurate.

Granted, that isn't usually the case people don't sit at min wage for 20 years, they move up through the ladder and get a better job.

Students are pretty much getting screwed along with the minimum wage being way to low in order for people to pay their debts. 

[DjPxH]

Yes! Most of the times you do. Of course there are exceptions to this, especially when you work in a business run by relatives. But a college degree is the best and most fail-safe way of getting paid better, even for the same jobs.

[xoomo]

In order to be noticed paper is crucial. Then it depends on you, how you will manage. But the paper only without knowledge is useless, your professionalism will be revealed sooner or later.

[forever21]

Yes! Most of the times you do. Of course there are exceptions to this, especially when you work in a business run by relatives. But a college degree is the best and most fail-safe way of getting paid better, even for the same jobs.

even the the undergrad can earn much better than the graduate one
its a matter of experience and strategy if you have a lot of ability in yourself then you can be rich

[boumalo]

Back of the napkin math -
Start working 2000 hrs/yr @ 16 years old taking home $30k (assuming no taxes since with credit/deductions you can go +/-). By age 36 you make 20x$30k = $600k (skipping interest).

If you do a cardiology fellowship after medschool/residency you will have worked for 6 years making $35k/yr (salaried resident so no minimum wage bonus for you) which let's say for the sake of argument would cover your student loans (not if you went private but we'll average it out with state schools). You'll make $200k/yr take home those 3 years leading up to age 36.

So by 36 the min wage adult and the cardiologist are even. Except the min wager could have a house almost paid off (possibly might even be working on house #2). Oh and the practitioner has also studied/worked about 2.5x as many hours as the min wager.

If the med school bound idiot (yes, now he is an idiot if he goes to medical school) changes to work 2 full time min wage jobs making $15/hr (assuming work is available) from age 16 he'll almost always be ahead by age 40, and if he invested wisely will have an insurmountable lead on any physician.

I bring up $15/hr since Seattle recently decided to bump up the minimum wage to that.  San Diego is considering $13/hr.

That would be great and all, but the min wage is not even close to $15/hr for most of the states. 

A more accurate min wage would be $7.25(Which is what most 16 year olds will get)  So that means they will bring  home roughly 10k a year after taxes.  So with nothing after 20 years the min wage will have 200k which is a lot more accurate.

Granted, that isn't usually the case people don't sit at min wage for 20 years, they move up through the ladder and get a better job.

Students are pretty much getting screwed along with the minimum wage being way to low in order for people to pay their debts. 

You were not suppose to work for minimum wage for more than a few months with a college degree

Minimum wage is horrible for persons who are not worth the minimum wage because they cannot get their first work experience to move up on the ladder : it is horrible for the least skilled and those who need a job the most

US don't create good jobs atm, just partial jobs in the service sector, often at the minimum wage and college graduates and 40years old with kids take those jobs that should go to unemployed unskilled workers

[TwinWinNerD]

Going to collage/university isn't only about earning more. It is about broadening the horizon and evolving as a person.

You can compare it to playing an instrument. Sure you won't become a concert-pianist by playing the piano for a few years, but you will get more openminded about music, get educated about that subject.

In the end people need to decide for their own, if spending that much time of your life and the much money worth the positive results or not, but if you can afford to do it (that includes NOT getting into huge debt) then go for it and evolve as a person.

[Lauda]

700 euro per year for 5 years = spending more than earning? Hm.
This might be in the US, but only insane people go live there.  

700euros per year for college means people that don't go to college pay for people that do go for college, poor innovation, poor quality, lots of waste, bad administration and a useless degree at the end because too many people will get a degree

You lost the money you could have earned in 5years, the skills and connections you would have got as well

You just said that any colledge in Austria is bad because it's 700 euros per semester/year (not exactly sure right now anymore)
You have no idea what you're talking about.  

700 euros per year is very cheap for a college education. It costs about 5 times that where I live.

Colleges in the US cost a lot I know. You are supposed to educate yourself, but then they put these crazy costs (makes sense doesn't it).

[TwinWinNerD]

700 euro per year for 5 years = spending more than earning? Hm.
This might be in the US, but only insane people go live there. 

700euros per year for college means people that don't go to college pay for people that do go for college, poor innovation, poor quality, lots of waste, bad administration and a useless degree at the end because too many people will get a degree

You lost the money you could have earned in 5years, the skills and connections you would have got as well

You just said that any colledge in Austria is bad because it's 700 euros per semester/year (not exactly sure right now anymore)
You have no idea what you're talking about. 

####
It is quite the opposite, US colleges are way more bloated and inefficient. They increase the cost of tuition way faster than the actual incurred costs for them...

Austria is a very small country, still has some top 100 ranked college degree programs (BSC, MA, MBA and MSC)

[S133p]

700 euro per year for 5 years = spending more than earning? Hm.
This might be in the US, but only insane people go live there. 

700euros per year for college means people that don't go to college pay for people that do go for college, poor innovation, poor quality, lots of waste, bad administration and a useless degree at the end because too many people will get a degree

You lost the money you could have earned in 5years, the skills and connections you would have got as well

You just said that any colledge in Austria is bad because it's 700 euros per semester/year (not exactly sure right now anymore)
You have no idea what you're talking about. 

####
It is quite the opposite, US colleges are way more bloated and inefficient. They increase the cost of tuition way faster than the actual incurred costs for them...

Austria is a very small country, still has some top 100 ranked college degree programs (BSC, MA, MBA and MSC)

This is true. and the fact that there are no requirements to borrow for college make it so colleges have zero incentive to try to keep costs in line.

[leex1528]

You were not suppose to work for minimum wage for more than a few months with a college degree

Minimum wage is horrible for persons who are not worth the minimum wage because they cannot get their first work experience to move up on the ladder : it is horrible for the least skilled and those who need a job the most

US don't create good jobs atm, just partial jobs in the service sector, often at the minimum wage and college graduates and 40years old with kids take those jobs that should go to unemployed unskilled workers

We know that...That is basically what we said in both our posts.  We said if you didn't go to college and just started at a minimum wage job and moved up the ladder, versus someone who went to college and paid back loans how much money  you made/lost between the 2 people.

[martinnew]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

[cinder]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

There are over supply of college educated kids, MBA and lawyers.

Law of supply and demand will mean wages have to go down for the "elite" due to competition.

[ProfMac]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

There are over supply of college educated kids, MBA and lawyers.

Law of supply and demand will mean wages have to go down for the "elite" due to competition.

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

[leex1528]

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

A lot of jobs are starting to not care about a degree as much as experience....

That being said, a lot of "Business" degree jobs just require any degree, they don't care.

Where I went to school for Computer Science and am finding it tough to get a job at programming.  Everywhere I look everyone wants 3-5 years of experience coding with no degree required...

I have an IT job at a help desk but I wouldn't mind trying programming out for a living..

[cinder]

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

A lot of jobs are starting to not care about a degree as much as experience....

That being said, a lot of "Business" degree jobs just require any degree, they don't care.

Where I went to school for Computer Science and am finding it tough to get a job at programming.  Everywhere I look everyone wants 3-5 years of experience coding with no degree required...

I have an IT job at a help desk but I wouldn't mind trying programming out for a living..

If you like coding job, join a few open source projects. You will get noticed fast if you are good at what you are doing.

[DrG]

Back of the napkin math -
Start working 2000 hrs/yr @ 16 years old taking home $30k (assuming no taxes since with credit/deductions you can go +/-). By age 36 you make 20x$30k = $600k (skipping interest).

If you do a cardiology fellowship after medschool/residency you will have worked for 6 years making $35k/yr (salaried resident so no minimum wage bonus for you) which let's say for the sake of argument would cover your student loans (not if you went private but we'll average it out with state schools). You'll make $200k/yr take home those 3 years leading up to age 36.

So by 36 the min wage adult and the cardiologist are even. Except the min wager could have a house almost paid off (possibly might even be working on house #2). Oh and the practitioner has also studied/worked about 2.5x as many hours as the min wager.

If the med school bound idiot (yes, now he is an idiot if he goes to medical school) changes to work 2 full time min wage jobs making $15/hr (assuming work is available) from age 16 he'll almost always be ahead by age 40, and if he invested wisely will have an insurmountable lead on any physician.

I bring up $15/hr since Seattle recently decided to bump up the minimum wage to that.  San Diego is considering $13/hr.

That would be great and all, but the min wage is not even close to $15/hr for most of the states. 

A more accurate min wage would be $7.25(Which is what most 16 year olds will get)  So that means they will bring  home roughly 10k a year after taxes.  So with nothing after 20 years the min wage will have 200k which is a lot more accurate.

Granted, that isn't usually the case people don't sit at min wage for 20 years, they move up through the ladder and get a better job.

Students are pretty much getting screwed along with the minimum wage being way to low in order for people to pay their debts. 

While numerically there may be several states that don't pay $10/hr, most urban states (where the majority of the population of the US resides) is paying well above $8.50.  CA will be $10 minimum statewide in 5 months.  The urban cities pay much higher since cost of living is higher (hence why you see $13 and $15 minimum living wages popping up).

If you do happen to live in one of those places where the minimum is $7.25 it's even easier to buy a house.  My wife live in KY for 3 years and bought a large house for $80K - same house would have cost $500K here in CA.  So even though the wage might be 1/2 as much, housing is insanely cheaper.  Electricity, heating gas and water are cheaper there too.  Only things like gasoline tend to run the same price around the country.

Either way my point is minimum wage can result in a nice nest egg if people discipline themselves like professionals going through 12 years of schooling.

[Watoshi-Dimobuto]

I think in most occasions the answer is yes. In my case I would have trouble getting hired with my current job now if it was not for my degree.

[leex1528]

While numerically there may be several states that don't pay $10/hr, most urban states (where the majority of the population of the US resides) is paying well above $8.50.  CA will be $10 minimum statewide in 5 months.  The urban cities pay much higher since cost of living is higher (hence why you see $13 and $15 minimum living wages popping up).

If you do happen to live in one of those places where the minimum is $7.25 it's even easier to buy a house.  My wife live in KY for 3 years and bought a large house for $80K - same house would have cost $500K here in CA.  So even though the wage might be 1/2 as much, housing is insanely cheaper.  Electricity, heating gas and water are cheaper there too.  Only things like gasoline tend to run the same price around the country.

Either way my point is minimum wage can result in a nice nest egg if people discipline themselves like professionals going through 12 years of schooling.

That just isn't true:/

http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/america.htm

As you can see the min wage is around 7-8 dollars in over 2/3's of the states.  Min wage != cheaper houses either...Most places around here are $300k+ for a decent, 400K+ for a nice house.

Even the townhouses avg cost for a 1 garage is around $130k.

Min wage should be around 11/hr for everyone

[Habeler876]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

There are over supply of college educated kids, MBA and lawyers.

Law of supply and demand will mean wages have to go down for the "elite" due to competition.

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

This is a very good point. I graduated in 2009 and a few big law firms in my area went belly up in 2008-2010. For a couple years, I was competing with out-of-work lawyers for shitty legal support work. Go figure.

Sure, going the uneducated route is fine if you have brains, ability and start-up capital. But you may be edged out of the market when you need a job the most.

[Bitsaurus]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

There are over supply of college educated kids, MBA and lawyers.

Law of supply and demand will mean wages have to go down for the "elite" due to competition.

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

This is a very good point. I graduated in 2009 and a few big law firms in my area went belly up in 2008-2010. For a couple years, I was competing with out-of-work lawyers for shitty legal support work. Go figure.

Sure, going the uneducated route is fine if you have brains, ability and start-up capital. But you may be edged out of the market when you need a job the most.

Why work to get an education and a degree and a job in such a situation.  All those low paying jobs earners end up receiving less in compensation than a full time welfare collector - and the welfare collector doesn't have to worry about getting hired while looking for a job.

Well there is that dignity thing, but I think that's gone today.

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

There are over supply of college educated kids, MBA and lawyers.

Law of supply and demand will mean wages have to go down for the "elite" due to competition.

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

This is a very good point. I graduated in 2009 and a few big law firms in my area went belly up in 2008-2010. For a couple years, I was competing with out-of-work lawyers for shitty legal support work. Go figure.

Sure, going the uneducated route is fine if you have brains, ability and start-up capital. But you may be edged out of the market when you need a job the most.

Passing on a college degree is a gamble.  You can certainly do better than those with college education, but the odds are against you.  Sure, there are some without degrees that have made it big, but they are few and far between.  Even if you have great ideas for businesses, inventions, etc., there are a lot of things that you can learn in college that will help you succeed at your endeavors.

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

While numerically there may be several states that don't pay $10/hr, most urban states (where the majority of the population of the US resides) is paying well above $8.50.  CA will be $10 minimum statewide in 5 months.  The urban cities pay much higher since cost of living is higher (hence why you see $13 and $15 minimum living wages popping up).

If you do happen to live in one of those places where the minimum is $7.25 it's even easier to buy a house.  My wife live in KY for 3 years and bought a large house for $80K - same house would have cost $500K here in CA.  So even though the wage might be 1/2 as much, housing is insanely cheaper.  Electricity, heating gas and water are cheaper there too.  Only things like gasoline tend to run the same price around the country.

Either way my point is minimum wage can result in a nice nest egg if people discipline themselves like professionals going through 12 years of schooling.

Expenses don't scale linearly.  Houses may be cheaper in places with a smaller minimum wage, but that doesn't make them more affordable for those who are making minimum wage.  Cost of living matters for things besides houses, of course, but those making minimum wage are going to be spending most of their money on food, clothing, gas, etc.

[iluvbitcoins]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

There are over supply of college educated kids, MBA and lawyers.

Law of supply and demand will mean wages have to go down for the "elite" due to competition.

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

This is a very good point. I graduated in 2009 and a few big law firms in my area went belly up in 2008-2010. For a couple years, I was competing with out-of-work lawyers for shitty legal support work. Go figure.

Sure, going the uneducated route is fine if you have brains, ability and start-up capital. But you may be edged out of the market when you need a job the most.

Passing on a college degree is a gamble.  You can certainly do better than those with college education, but the odds are against you.  Sure, there are some without degrees that have made it big, but they are few and far between.  Even if you have great ideas for businesses, inventions, etc., there are a lot of things that you can learn in college that will help you succeed at your endeavors.

such as?

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

There are over supply of college educated kids, MBA and lawyers.

Law of supply and demand will mean wages have to go down for the "elite" due to competition.

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

This is a very good point. I graduated in 2009 and a few big law firms in my area went belly up in 2008-2010. For a couple years, I was competing with out-of-work lawyers for shitty legal support work. Go figure.

Sure, going the uneducated route is fine if you have brains, ability and start-up capital. But you may be edged out of the market when you need a job the most.

Passing on a college degree is a gamble.  You can certainly do better than those with college education, but the odds are against you.  Sure, there are some without degrees that have made it big, but they are few and far between.  Even if you have great ideas for businesses, inventions, etc., there are a lot of things that you can learn in college that will help you succeed at your endeavors.

such as?

Things like communications skills, writing skills, a whole host of technical skills, networking with people, and even personal growth can be very beneficial.  Despite getting solid engineering degrees, I probably learned more about myself and other people than the subjects I studied.  I also formed some of the best relationships of my life.  I don't think that would have been possible without being in a setting where I was surrounded solely by other people my own age.

[ANTIcentralized]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

There are over supply of college educated kids, MBA and lawyers.

Law of supply and demand will mean wages have to go down for the "elite" due to competition.

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

This is a very good point. I graduated in 2009 and a few big law firms in my area went belly up in 2008-2010. For a couple years, I was competing with out-of-work lawyers for shitty legal support work. Go figure.

Sure, going the uneducated route is fine if you have brains, ability and start-up capital. But you may be edged out of the market when you need a job the most.

Passing on a college degree is a gamble.  You can certainly do better than those with college education, but the odds are against you.  Sure, there are some without degrees that have made it big, but they are few and far between.  Even if you have great ideas for businesses, inventions, etc., there are a lot of things that you can learn in college that will help you succeed at your endeavors.

such as?

Things like communications skills, writing skills, a whole host of technical skills, networking with people, and even personal growth can be very beneficial.  Despite getting solid engineering degrees, I probably learned more about myself and other people than the subjects I studied.  I also formed some of the best relationships of my life.  I don't think that would have been possible without being in a setting where I was surrounded solely by other people my own age.

This is a very good point. However you do not need to get a college degree (finish your degree) to have these skills. You really only need to attend college for "several" semesters.

[williamevanl]

Simply, yes, a lot more. A lot of college graduates (With good degrees, not psychology! ) quickly make $80,000 a year. My friends that didn't go to college don't even typically make half that, sometimes closer to 1/4 of that.

This is literally a job where I work where you just circle shapes all day. It pays ~50K starting out but requires a college degree. My mind was kind of blown when I realized how much more college graduates have the ability to make simply because people feel better about the work they do because they have college degrees. (not that it necessarily confers any type of advantage)

[TheJohn]

Simply, yes, a lot more. A lot of college graduates (With good degrees, not psychology! ) quickly make $80,000 a year. My friends that didn't go to college don't even typically make half that, sometimes closer to 1/4 of that.

This is literally a job where I work where you just circle shapes all day. It pays ~50K starting out but requires a college degree. My mind was kind of blown when I realized how much more college graduates have the ability to make simply because people feel better about the work they do because they have college degrees. (not that it necessarily confers any type of advantage)

It really depends on how the college fee was spend. If someone use it for some nice business I believe they are already earning more then 6 digit a year..

[boumalo]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

There are over supply of college educated kids, MBA and lawyers.

Law of supply and demand will mean wages have to go down for the "elite" due to competition.

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

This is a very good point. I graduated in 2009 and a few big law firms in my area went belly up in 2008-2010. For a couple years, I was competing with out-of-work lawyers for shitty legal support work. Go figure.

Sure, going the uneducated route is fine if you have brains, ability and start-up capital. But you may be edged out of the market when you need a job the most.

Passing on a college degree is a gamble.  You can certainly do better than those with college education, but the odds are against you.  Sure, there are some without degrees that have made it big, but they are few and far between.  Even if you have great ideas for businesses, inventions, etc., there are a lot of things that you can learn in college that will help you succeed at your endeavors.

such as?

Things like communications skills, writing skills, a whole host of technical skills, networking with people, and even personal growth can be very beneficial.  Despite getting solid engineering degrees, I probably learned more about myself and other people than the subjects I studied.  I also formed some of the best relationships of my life.  I don't think that would have been possible without being in a setting where I was surrounded solely by other people my own age.

This is a very good point. However you do not need to get a college degree (finish your degree) to have these skills. You really only need to attend college for "several" semesters.

And you could imagine other settings where you can get those skills as well

College tuitions have been rising exponentially mostly because of the State involvement in the education market and the price to pay is becoming tremendous : if you don't acquire enough skills or don't have other qualities a sole college degree will be close to worthless

When the State intervenes in a market the prices go up : heath, education ect. When the private sector is let free the prices go down

[AnswerQuestion]

I am unemployed and living in a homeless shelter even though I am 80k+ in debt from getting an art degree.

[RedhatCAT]

I am employed as an attorney making 120k per year, so yes i think getting my JD was a good investment.

[iTRADEbtc]

I am unemployed and living in a homeless shelter even though I am 80k+ in debt from getting an art degree.

Damm. I feel you man. I wish I could somehow help you out.

[leex1528]

I am unemployed and living in a homeless shelter even though I am 80k+ in debt from getting an art degree.

Not to be mean or anything, I mean that sucks but what on earth are you doing getting an art degree and why did it cost you 80k?  Sounds like you went to a school that saw you coming from a mile away..

[cookiemonsterwhat]

I am unemployed and living in a homeless shelter even though I am 80k+ in debt from getting an art degree.

Not to be mean or anything, I mean that sucks but what on earth are you doing getting an art degree and why did it cost you 80k?  Sounds like you went to a school that saw you coming from a mile away..

Some people think they would land a job at dream works, which is pretty huge.

Then again I can be wrong, and its not anything related can be a sub category of art. I know most people though are still struggling to pay off their debts by living w. their parents.

As for me, I noticed my per grade costed = $70. And I noticed even if I did transfer to a great college, that its going to be hell so I bailed.

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

Things like communications skills, writing skills, a whole host of technical skills, networking with people, and even personal growth can be very beneficial.  Despite getting solid engineering degrees, I probably learned more about myself and other people than the subjects I studied.  I also formed some of the best relationships of my life.  I don't think that would have been possible without being in a setting where I was surrounded solely by other people my own age.

This is a very good point. However you do not need to get a college degree (finish your degree) to have these skills. You really only need to attend college for "several" semesters.

And you could imagine other settings where you can get those skills as well

What other settings?  I'm not saying you're wrong, but at least for me, I don't think it would have been possible elsewhere.

College tuitions have been rising exponentially mostly because of the State involvement in the education market and the price to pay is becoming tremendous : if you don't acquire enough skills or don't have other qualities a sole college degree will be close to worthless

When the State intervenes in a market the prices go up : heath, education ect. When the private sector is let free the prices go down

By State intervention, I assume you mean offering all kinds of student loans.  State schools can be a great way to save money, but yes, the availability of lots of money for loans seems to driving up tuition as it enables more demand than there would otherwise be.

[fanboy4]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

Going a college is a reference, but i does not means you cna do everything.
Being a good human speaks more in real life.

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

Going a college is a reference, but i does not means you cna do everything.
Being a good human speaks more in real life.

One of the most important academic lessons I learned in college was figuring out how to figure out how to do things.  College didn't teach me how to do everything, but it taught me how to go about learning how to do something I don't already know how to do.  That lesson is priceless.

[movelikejagger]

We live in that time when people should end college cause of a piece of paper...

[boumalo]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

Going a college is a reference, but i does not means you cna do everything.
Being a good human speaks more in real life.

One of the most important academic lessons I learned in college was figuring out how to figure out how to do things.  College didn't teach me how to do everything, but it taught me how to go about learning how to do something I don't already know how to do.  That lesson is priceless.

But you could have learned it in high school, at home and it is not worth tens of thousands per year; even if you didn't pay tens of thousands per year it costed tens of thousands per year

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

Going a college is a reference, but i does not means you cna do everything.
Being a good human speaks more in real life.

One of the most important academic lessons I learned in college was figuring out how to figure out how to do things.  College didn't teach me how to do everything, but it taught me how to go about learning how to do something I don't already know how to do.  That lesson is priceless.

But you could have learned it in high school, at home and it is not worth tens of thousands per year; even if you didn't pay tens of thousands per year it costed tens of thousands per year

No, I couldn't have learned that in high school.  High school is too low level--they're mostly concerned with teaching particular facts and concepts.  The atmosphere is too constrained by particular curricula.  You have to be given time and space to learn to think independently and figure out how to solve the problems you run into along the way.

[boumalo]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

Going a college is a reference, but i does not means you cna do everything.
Being a good human speaks more in real life.

One of the most important academic lessons I learned in college was figuring out how to figure out how to do things.  College didn't teach me how to do everything, but it taught me how to go about learning how to do something I don't already know how to do.  That lesson is priceless.

But you could have learned it in high school, at home and it is not worth tens of thousands per year; even if you didn't pay tens of thousands per year it costed tens of thousands per year

No, I couldn't have learned that in high school.  High school is too low level--they're mostly concerned with teaching particular facts and concepts.  The atmosphere is too constrained by particular curricula.  You have to be given time and space to learn to think independently and figure out how to solve the problems you run into along the way.

Maybe you could have been given time and space in high school if the teaching was better and made differently; or you could have learned what you learned for a cheapest cost in college

[chaosknight]

I think that going to college is better these days cause almost every job requirement is a degree. Unless you want to take high risk and use the money for business...

[leex1528]

It depends on are you talking long run or short term, freshly out of college, freshly out of high school?

I would say this:

A person who goes to work for 4 years after high school and gets experience

Versus

A person who goes to College and pays for it and then gets a job:

A person who is working not only will have a lot more money, but they will probably be earning more than the college person at that time.

I would say 5-10 years down the road....the college student will start making more money....and after 15-20 years...the college kid will have more money than the high school grad...

[boumalo]

It depends on are you talking long run or short term, freshly out of college, freshly out of high school?

I would say this:

A person who goes to work for 4 years after high school and gets experience

Versus

A person who goes to College and pays for it and then gets a job:

A person who is working not only will have a lot more money, but they will probably be earning more than the college person at that time.

I would say 5-10 years down the road....the college student will start making more money....and after 15-20 years...the college kid will have more money than the high school grad...

Yes agreed 5-10 years to make the same money and at least 20 to have make more debt/lost income taken into account but we compared orange to apple because college students are smarter, more connected, more eager to suceed and from more affluent families as a group

[Tritek]

Not always you earn more with degree.

[koshgel]

It all depends on what type of degree you get in school and what you decide to do with it.

There's a big difference between a Philosophy degree or a Biology degree and if you decide to pursue a graduate program.

$$$ = the amount of motivation you put into succeeding

[ltc8529]

It all depends on what type of degree you get in school and what you decide to do with it.

There's a big difference between a Philosophy degree or a Biology degree and if you decide to pursue a graduate program.

$$$ = the amount of motivation you put into succeeding

+1 dont even waste the $$$ going to college unless youre motivated to do the best you can.

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

It depends on are you talking long run or short term, freshly out of college, freshly out of high school?

I would say this:

A person who goes to work for 4 years after high school and gets experience

Versus

A person who goes to College and pays for it and then gets a job:

A person who is working not only will have a lot more money, but they will probably be earning more than the college person at that time.

I would say 5-10 years down the road....the college student will start making more money....and after 15-20 years...the college kid will have more money than the high school grad...

What jobs are you thinking of?  When looking at median annual earnings, the high school grad will not catch up to the college grad, even after 4 years.  This is from an article earlier this year:

"Among millennials ages 25 to 32, median annual earnings for full-time working college-degree holders are $17,500 greater than for those with high school diplomas only."

If you only have a high school diploma, your salary is not going to increase by $17.5k in 4 years unless you're really really lucky.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/02/11/study-income-gap-between-young-college-and-high-school-grads-widens

Edit: This is for the US, of course.  It may be different in other countries.

[Ayers]

maybe if you are recommended, but usually yes

[leex1528]

What jobs are you thinking of?  When looking at median annual earnings, the high school grad will not catch up to the college grad, even after 4 years.  This is from an article earlier this year:

"Among millennials ages 25 to 32, median annual earnings for full-time working college-degree holders are $17,500 greater than for those with high school diplomas only."

If you only have a high school diploma, your salary is not going to increase by $17.5k in 4 years unless you're really really lucky.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/02/11/study-income-gap-between-young-college-and-high-school-grads-widens

Edit: This is for the US, of course.  It may be different in other countries.

I guess I am just speaking from personal experience and what my friends did.  And your point is sort of backing mine up.

College graduates (21-22) work 3 years and then are earning roughly $17,500 more than those with diplomas.  While the high school grad will have worked for 8 years at the age of 25, and will have a lot bigger bankroll then the college grad...

[boumalo]

It depends on are you talking long run or short term, freshly out of college, freshly out of high school?

I would say this:

A person who goes to work for 4 years after high school and gets experience

Versus

A person who goes to College and pays for it and then gets a job:

A person who is working not only will have a lot more money, but they will probably be earning more than the college person at that time.

I would say 5-10 years down the road....the college student will start making more money....and after 15-20 years...the college kid will have more money than the high school grad...

What jobs are you thinking of?  When looking at median annual earnings, the high school grad will not catch up to the college grad, even after 4 years.  This is from an article earlier this year:

"Among millennials ages 25 to 32, median annual earnings for full-time working college-degree holders are $17,500 greater than for those with high school diplomas only."

If you only have a high school diploma, your salary is not going to increase by $17.5k in 4 years unless you're really really lucky.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/02/11/study-income-gap-between-young-college-and-high-school-grads-widens

Edit: This is for the US, of course.  It may be different in other countries.

You compare oranges and apple and you don't take into account college cost and lost earnings

[ProfMac]

I'm am doing a little web reading as homework so that I know what salary is reasonable.

For chemists on March 1, 2013:

Code:

           Industry    Academia
Bachelors  $73,000     $47,600
Masters    $94,100     $57,500
Doctoral  $125,000     $76,500

If you estimate a total of 10 years from Bachelors to Doctorate, that is lost income of $730,000.  At an increase of $52,000 / year, it will take about 14 years of doctoral level employment to recover.    This is typically by age (22 + 10 + 14) or 46.  By age 65, this would be a $988,000 increase in earnings, doctorate above bachelors.

I don't know how to compare high school graduates with Bachelors chemists in a way that a majority would accept.

[cech4204a]

It all depends on what type of degree you get in school and what you decide to do with it.

There's a big difference between a Philosophy degree or a Biology degree and if you decide to pursue a graduate program.

$$$ = the amount of motivation you put into succeeding

+1 dont even waste the $$$ going to college unless youre motivated to do the best you can.

I agree with this one, nobody should go to college with no motivation. It's a waste of time.

[b!z]

i got a philosophy degree, now i'm cruising the Mediterranean, breaking hearts, making millions

[boumalo]

i got a philosophy degree, now i'm cruising the Mediterranean, breaking hearts, making millions

Did you make any money directly because of your degree ?

[Coinhunter32]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

You go to college doesn't directly means you are gonna make more money.You make money while you take risks and you get a hand into something real.Yes, you of course get more knowledge on how to implement things onto the sectors you wanna make money.If there wasn't no thing like knowledge and other college graduates around you then imagine you would't have also had a knowledge you had now.It's the influence of educated fellows around too....

[Gumbork]

No, I could have invest those into bitcoin when it is few dollars.

[firejuan]

My B.S. degree is just that BS.  I do not know even know where it is right now, but my professional degree is what brings home the bacon.  I hated school, but I was good at it so I figured I should make use of my talents.  Yes, I still have some student loans, but my first job paid half of it off and the interest rate is below 3%.  Where else are you going to find money that cheap?

[josephliton]

Before World War II, only a small proportion of Americans went to college.

[Hasher99]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

Either or not you implement your knowledge or go into the field you graduated from,A college student is course more brighter and more intelligent than a non college attendee.Practicality comes from knowledge and knowledge from studying.

[Justin00]

To answer OP.. No.

Unless its a specific job like lawyer, doctor etc etc..
Not going to go into the specifics on my finances but I'm a network engineer (12 years experience now) and no formal education other than High school and I do very well.. even 5 years ago (when I had 7 yrs exp) I was doing very well.

You just need to work hard. To get where I am today I had to miss alot of birthdays and special occasions because I was on call/had to work.. but it has paid off now

A lot of my co-workers have degree's and what not, and we all ended up at the same place..

Saying that though... IT is different to a lot of other area's.. Its much easier to teach yourself stuff in IT then it is in other industries.

[bluefirecorp]

To answer OP.. No.

Unless its a specific job like lawyer, doctor etc etc..
Not going to go into the specifics on my finances but I'm a network engineer (12 years experience now) and no formal education other than High school and I do very well.. even 5 years ago (when I had 7 yrs exp) I was doing very well.

You just need to work hard. To get where I am today I had to miss alot of birthdays and special occasions because I was on call/had to work.. but it has paid off now

A lot of my co-workers have degree's and what not, and we all ended up at the same place..

Saying that though... IT is different to a lot of other area's.. Its much easier to teach yourself stuff in IT then it is in other industries.

Try it again today. Literally, try submitting you resume without any experience or certifications or education. Go on, try it.

Not going to fucking happen. You won't land that same job you landed 12 years ago. Fuck, 12 years ago you could land a decent IT gig by just knowing how to build a fucking computer. Times have changed. To even remotely get close to IT, you're going to need to get certified / a degree to even get into entry fucking level. Yes, now even to land a helldesk job you need certificates.

[Kimowa]

Nah, its so hard to find a job with degree at this economy, I end up doing some job which is not related to my degree.

[oprahwindfury]

Personally I think it's about how you market yourself with that particular degree. University is basically a test. You don't necessarily need to be extremely smart to pass college, just hard working and have good time management. Graduating with a degree just basically means you afforded yourself the appropriate amount of time to study in order to pass your classes. Now when you step out into the real world your employer wants to see how well that translates.

[tsoPANos]

Well, education does not guarantee success in your life, like money and glory...
But it increases the chance of success...

[ubuntuLover]

It is a tricky question. Even if you go to college, you need to actually use the education you obtain to your advantage. The fact that you went to college by itself does not guarantee anything.

[BitcoinHeroes]

A lot of my friends went to college and couldn't find a job, so there is no definite answer and both have their own risk. I say going college is less risky as compare to using the money for business or investment..

[boumalo]

A lot of my friends went to college and couldn't find a job, so there is no definite answer and both have their own risk. I say going college is less risky as compare to using the money for business or investment..

A college Master in the States can easily end up costing directly 100,000$-200,000$ if you calculate the tuition costs, lost income, interests on the debt for 10years

If you can get this money and invest it very diversified at 20years old you are good to go for a 50years old retirement

[ensurance982]

A lot of my friends went to college and couldn't find a job, so there is no definite answer and both have their own risk. I say going college is less risky as compare to using the money for business or investment..

I think it depends on what you've studied, really! If you're in a field where it is difficult to find a job to begin with, it's not very likely that you can find a job at all, but in an area where there actually are jobs, you'll get a lot more money with a decent degree!

[boumalo]

A lot of my friends went to college and couldn't find a job, so there is no definite answer and both have their own risk. I say going college is less risky as compare to using the money for business or investment..

I think it depends on what you've studied, really! If you're in a field where it is difficult to find a job to begin with, it's not very likely that you can find a job at all, but in an area where there actually are jobs, you'll get a lot more money with a decent degree!

Interesting point; in some fiels like Health Care in the US it can be very profitable to get a degree in the current state of things (it may change!) since you need a degree to be a doctor, nurse, pratictionner ect.

[ooo1ayi]

I dont really believe that diploma and uni makes you to earn money.

[hgerson]

Book smart is not enough to make (a lot of) money.

To be hugely successful I'd say 70% street smart and 30% book smart.

The brightest people I know by college standards are not even rich.

[mustang77]

i dont know anyone rich that went to college 

[Zawamiya]

going college can give you a confortable living, but not luxury.

[negafen]

Unfortunately nowadays the Diploma does very little.  It is more about experience gained and who you know.  All you are left with is tons of debt that will take you 1/4 of your life to pay back....Things need to change.

Yes. Experience and Social Network played a much more important factors than diploma and intelligence.

Sadly, most people do not realized this fact until it is too late.

[der_troll]

I believe I do earn much more because of my education, all I need is to look at most of my high school friends who didn't go study and to see how much they are earning now. 

[boumalo]

I believe I do earn much more because of my education, all I need is to look at most of my high school friends who didn't go study and to see how much they are earning now. 

Maybe it is not because they didn't go to college but because they are not motivated, connected or smart

[pilitusanelidus]

the experience is a huge factor working, but learning at the college gives you a different way to see the life, the creativity, inspiration and motivation and what for the companies are looking for in my case it worked for me.

[Hustle2survive]

going college can give you a confortable living, but not luxury.

How do you get a luxury?

[boumalo]

the experience is a huge factor working, but learning at the college gives you a different way to see the life, the creativity, inspiration and motivation and what for the companies are looking for in my case it worked for me.

Can't you learn it without losing 100k of income, 100k in tuition fees and 4-6years?

We are at the time of internet where everyone has all infos available through his phone in his pocket

People that succeed after college are people who are smart, success driven and connected and who would have succeed well and probably better if they didn't go to college

[MakeBelieve]

load of bullshit just because you go to college won't make you successful.

[Poorri]

You get insane debts in some countries, that for sure.

[boumalo]

Well, education does not guarantee success in your life, like money and glory...
But it increases the chance of success...

Education is very important but most your education comes from outside the school : from your family, maybe your friends and reading

You can get a solid education via internet (https://www.edx.org/school/harvardx https://www.youtube.com/user/SchiffReport/videos https://www.youtube.com/user/stefbot/videos) nowadays; tuitions costs should go down since you don't need so many books anymore and you shouldn't need so many bad teachers when the best can be seen online but we see the opposite : the tuitions costs go up as the government regulate the sector more and more and push the prices higher with the college funds

[boumalo]

bump

[CozyLife]

I earn less money because I went to college. I had to pay for it for the first go round, but the second time, FAFSA covered it.

[paumonte]

 I really do, I have the talent to turn coffee into software, and is not something easy that will learn out of the college

[boumalo]

I earn less money because I went to college. I had to pay for it for the first go round, but the second time, FAFSA covered it.

Considering you could have make money all this time and save the money you paid for the first round, do you think you are better off because you went to college?

[martinnew]

I really do, I have the talent to turn coffee into software, and is not something easy that will learn out of the college

That sounds to be a cool software.  :
Well, agree to that.

[nsimmons]

Book smart is not enough to make (a lot of) money.

To be hugely successful I'd say 70% street smart and 30% book smart.

The brightest people I know by college standards are not even rich.

Maybe they figured out that there is more to life than gross excess and consumerism?

[RobFordWotWot]

I sell oranges down by the freeway and I shudder to think what life would be like if I took out loans to get a liberal arts degree.

[Hitchslap78]

It increase the possibility of making profit but not always.

[qm7]

Depends on your major.  Majoring in liberal arts is generally not a good investment.

[boumalo]

I sell oranges down by the freeway and I shudder to think what life would be like if I took out loans to get a liberal arts degree.

You would sell oranges but you will have 50,000$ of student debt and you will have party, meet rich folks for a few years and learn a few things about Art that you can learn online : https://www.edx.org/school/harvardx

[BJay87]

Maybe I can say that I am very happy to have a very good school when I was in highschool

[boumalo]

Maybe I can say that I am very happy to have a very good school when I was in highschool

Why

[boumalo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o

Peter Schiff is also saying that a lot of people take students loans to pay their rent and support themselves

[boumalo]

You are usually not better off after a 200K$ master in Arts, you have debt and you didn't work for 3-4years when you could have learn a job and build seniority and contacts

[lissandra]

i dont think people do, it just makes them more in debt.

[Gleb Goodston]

No you make your own wealth not a cetificate especially when everyone else on the planet now has a qualification of some sort...its almost a waste of time you can always self study.

[WestHarrison]

I think it's a matter of what your goals are, if you are focused on business I think starting out as soon as possible is best and you can add book smarts WHILE you are already working in the real world (especially if you are young). That way you can add knowledge that is specific to what you are encountering in your line of work.

That said, there are some careers that you pretty much have to go to college if you want to pursue them, such as engineering or medicine. People want different things and that's ok,  but I don't understand how so many people think that just because they went to college they will automatically earn money magically after they graduate.

[b!z]

I really do, I have the talent to turn coffee into software, and is not something easy that will learn out of the college

favorite type of coffee?

[manselr]

Generally yes, but the "blow up" kind of money comes from random luck and creativity and being at the right moment right time. Nothing to do with a college degree.

[misterpressman]

Hmmmm I do not think so. I earn more than my college friends right now.

[domeven]

In italy is quite difficult, if impossible!
You should be a friend of or, best, son of to earn more.
Very few are looking for capabilities, and  for a degree.

[boumalo]

I think the University is the best way, not the only way. Because the University is not only training but also in man (knowledge synthesis) as a foundation from which I can continue to cultivate more knowledge from society.

You can get more knowledge by self education online, by working or going to private seminaries than if you go to the University and you will get it more efficiently and at a cheaper price

Hmmmm I do not think so. I earn more than my college friends right now.

And you are not in debt

[mordekaiser]

this statement about going to college, makes you go broke even quicker.

what logic is spend $40k in college debt, will land you a job $80k.

$40k in intrest over how many years..

[boumalo]

this statement about going to college, makes you go broke even quicker.

what logic is spend $40k in college debt, will land you a job $80k.

$40k in intrest over how many years..

Yes the thing is any college diploma doesn't get you a job at 80k$, it doesn't even get you a job at 40k$

Certain diplomas get you a career but they are in the minority.

[DarkHyudrA]

Well... rarely you will see a programmer that doesn't have a diploma, I'm no exception.
The point is that only study doesn't gives you a excellent job, but what you do and your ideas is what makes you go further in your career. Unless you're academic and want to be the bst teacher of something, then studying is the only true way.

[Initscri]

I usually go to meetups for Computer Programming.
Most participants usually have some of app they are working on.

There were two ladies who had just gotten out of University around 1-2 years ago. The university they mentioned is actually a prestigious university within our area. They were new to the meetup.
I asked them what they were working on. One of them said an App that a colleague of hers had partnered with her to create.

She began explaining the app, to which I replied with questions about how she was going to produce the backend (database solutions, MySQL) and if she was going to use some sort of RESTful api to store data to the database.

She had absolutely no clue what I was talking about; and didn't know what MySQL was.

I'm not trying to say that she was clueless; nor that University didn't give them the skills to complete projects ( although they admitted they need to learn a lot more ). However, what I'm trying to imply is that University gets you an easier ability to sit in a chair in front of the HR or person hiring you. What you say and how well you perform is what gets you the money.

For drop-outs and people who are self-taught like myself, we can land a job, but it's harder to get that initial seating due to misconceptions and ignorance within the HR workforce today. However, I've found many self-taught individuals who can perform at the same level as University graduates; if not higher. It all depends on the person though.

Well... rarely you will see a programmer that doesn't have a diploma, I'm no exception.
The point is that only study doesn't gives you a excellent job, but what you do and your ideas is what makes you go further in your career. Unless you're academic and want to be the bst teacher of something, then studying is the only true way.

This is starting to change. I've seen more and more diploma-less programmers. Most of them make the point (including myself), that they didn't get into programming to get a job... they did it to create a business / create something.

[oprahwindfury]

I usually go to meetups for Computer Programming.
Most participants usually have some of app they are working on.

There were two ladies who had just gotten out of University around 1-2 years ago. The university they mentioned is actually a prestigious university within our area. They were new to the meetup.
I asked them what they were working on. One of them said an App that a colleague of hers had partnered with her to create.

She began explaining the app, to which I replied with questions about how she was going to produce the backend (database solutions, MySQL) and if she was going to use some sort of RESTful api to store data to the database.

She had absolutely no clue what I was talking about; and didn't know what MySQL was.

I'm not trying to say that she was clueless; nor that University didn't give them the skills to complete projects ( although they admitted they need to learn a lot more ). However, what I'm trying to imply is that University gets you an easier ability to sit in a chair in front of the HR or person hiring you. What you say and how well you perform is what gets you the money.

For drop-outs and people who are self-taught like myself, we can land a job, but it's harder to get that initial seating due to misconceptions and ignorance within the HR workforce today. However, I've found many self-taught individuals who can perform at the same level as University graduates; if not higher. It all depends on the person though.

Well... rarely you will see a programmer that doesn't have a diploma, I'm no exception.
The point is that only study doesn't gives you a excellent job, but what you do and your ideas is what makes you go further in your career. Unless you're academic and want to be the bst teacher of something, then studying is the only true way.

This is starting to change. I've seen more and more diploma-less programmers. Most of them make the point (including myself), that they didn't get into programming to get a job... they did it to create a business / create something.

While having a degree indeed helps you get your foot in the door to that interview, being skilled in your profession and showing the employer you can execute goes far beyond a college degree. My friend was a Psychology major out of University in Northern California. In his spare time he developed his coding and programming skills throughout his undergrad years. He pursued a job in the tech industry as a web developer in San Francisco. They hired him in the end over other qualified Comp Sci degree holders because he demonstrated he had the skill and ability to execute. Having experience trumps a degree tremendously in the Bay Area when it comes to job searching.

[leex1528]

I would say you definitely earn more, but not right off the bat, you start so far in debt that it takes along time to climb your way out

[GreedyBastard]

I would say you definitely earn more, but not right off the bat, you start so far in debt that it takes along time to climb your way out

theres been studies conducted and its shown because they were so far in debt they averaged out to be the same as someone without a college education who has been working their whole life.

[leex1528]

I would say you definitely earn more, but not right off the bat, you start so far in debt that it takes along time to climb your way out

theres been studies conducted and its shown because they were so far in debt they averaged out to be the same as someone without a college education who has been working their whole life.

Links?  My thought would be College would eventually overpower, but not for 10-15 years, and at that point is it worthit?

[MarisaFea]

I would say you definitely earn more, but not right off the bat, you start so far in debt that it takes along time to climb your way out

theres been studies conducted and its shown because they were so far in debt they averaged out to be the same as someone without a college education who has been working their whole life.

Links?  My thought would be College would eventually overpower, but not for 10-15 years, and at that point is it worthit?

guess it depends what age you are when you went to college? how effective it would be I would be interested in those links though

[nsimmons]

I usually go to meetups for Computer Programming.
Most participants usually have some of app they are working on.

There were two ladies who had just gotten out of University around 1-2 years ago. The university they mentioned is actually a prestigious university within our area. They were new to the meetup.
I asked them what they were working on. One of them said an App that a colleague of hers had partnered with her to create.

She began explaining the app, to which I replied with questions about how she was going to produce the backend (database solutions, MySQL) and if she was going to use some sort of RESTful api to store data to the database.

She had absolutely no clue what I was talking about; and didn't know what MySQL was.

I'm not trying to say that she was clueless; nor that University didn't give them the skills to complete projects ( although they admitted they need to learn a lot more ). However, what I'm trying to imply is that University gets you an easier ability to sit in a chair in front of the HR or person hiring you. What you say and how well you perform is what gets you the money.

For drop-outs and people who are self-taught like myself, we can land a job, but it's harder to get that initial seating due to misconceptions and ignorance within the HR workforce today. However, I've found many self-taught individuals who can perform at the same level as University graduates; if not higher. It all depends on the person though.

Well... rarely you will see a programmer that doesn't have a diploma, I'm no exception.
The point is that only study doesn't gives you a excellent job, but what you do and your ideas is what makes you go further in your career. Unless you're academic and want to be the bst teacher of something, then studying is the only true way.

This is starting to change. I've seen more and more diploma-less programmers. Most of them make the point (including myself), that they didn't get into programming to get a job... they did it to create a business / create something.

There is a huge difference between learning the flavour of the month language, and the mathematics, design processes that the bulk of a computer science degree consists of.

An analogous situation is a mechanic and a mechanical engineer. Is the engineer stupid because he doesn't know the specific systems on a specific model of vehicle? I would argue the engineer would be able to eventually diagnose and fix a vehicle, while the mechanic would be at a complete loss at any but the most rudimentary design task.

They taught me pascal in high school, java was just being introduced when I went to university. I have experience with 16 bit intel asm. Imagine if my education focused solely on application of the current technologies.

[poisenrang]

really depends what work you do later on hehe

[boumalo]

really depends what work you do later on hehe

Yes but many college degrees are not worth tens of thousands of dollars and three or four years of your life.

[D4C]

Depends a lot in the situation of your country. Are you going to get in debt only for the job market to be so over saturated with college grads that you will end up flipping burgers? better to learn a trade

[boumalo]

Up

[erpbridge]

According to me the answer is yes but not in all cases. For example, you could have good programming skills and might not have gone to college. In that case you could still earn more with an idea or by building something. But overall on average its proven that going to college is what will give you the edge. Companies don't hire people who have not been to a college. Even going to a college adds to your resume.

[hf100]

According to me the answer is yes but not in all cases. For example, you could have good programming skills and might not have gone to college. In that case you could still earn more with an idea or by building something. But overall on average its proven that going to college is what will give you the edge. Companies don't hire people who have not been to a college. Even going to a college adds to your resume.

Sometimes a tradesman earns more than a university professor. I have known plumbers who earn more.

[boumalo]

According to me the answer is yes but not in all cases. For example, you could have good programming skills and might not have gone to college. In that case you could still earn more with an idea or by building something. But overall on average its proven that going to college is what will give you the edge. Companies don't hire people who have not been to a college. Even going to a college adds to your resume.

It is falsely proven by researches done for universities, in universities research facilities by university professors that have done a lot of studies themselves.

They rarely compared smart connected and driven individuals that don't go to college with smart connected and driven individuals that went to college. They never take into account that the system is biais towards people that didn't go to college and you have to go to college to practice some good paying jobs.

If you look at the return on investment for college degrees that you don't need to practice a job, the return is highly negative in the US.

[yummyransom]

I attended college since i was somehow forced to do it, it was expected from me to do it and i did it. I think if i had free will i wouldn't attend, but now i'm happy i did. Somehow i see stuff different and i like the fact that i can get better job, but i'm still jobless

Maybe you're a jobless because you're not looking for some jobs out there. But if you really want to have a job then use your good skills. Because working is not just something. Work really hard because you love your work not just because you have no choice.

[football998]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

I don't think people that go to college make more money .
 I have some my friends who don't go to college , they are very rich . They are richer than people that go to college

[donaltrump8]

YES ! I think if you go to college , you will be definitely better than if you don't go to college .
 
You will have more opportunities and relationship when you graduate .

[dipjon]

education is not a significative, it depends on what you do and how you do it.
besides, if you are a fool in general, you cant make lots of money

[meghansullivan]

if you really study hard then it will be helpful
in case you don't - no. maybe one day someone will ask you about diploma but if you know nothing about your speciality your diploma doesn't have any sense

[rasmontalvo]

now i work in a company that didn't ask my diploma. specification is not the same as i learned in college so my answer is NO

[IzumiKonata]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

I think that's not really how the world works now. Even those who only finished high school, even elementary, can earn tons of money. It just depend on one's will, hard work and constancy.

[inklingzade]

Yeah, with my degree, it's a proof for me been through a training . So they gonna pay the salary more than who doesn't have it.

[Mister k]

Depends on the diploma you pass or the training you get, no ?

My plumber has such a high hourly fee and such job opportunities that he will always earn more money than me with a 6 years post baccalaureat diploma (I'm French)...

[Eliza beth]

I'm still paying back my 2 year college course which was useless (business).

[Mi chael]

Wasted more then $150,000 on college just for a paper..

[Vinxent]

Nope, most of my mates who didn't go to college or uni are on a higher salary than me. They're either tradesmen or running their own business with the bonus of not being saddled with a huge student debt. Personally wouldn't bother with college unless you want to work in a specialised job like a doctor, vet etc.

[Emilytran]

Each year spent learning in an institution, is one less year you can make buck.

[John Nathan]

And it will cost you as much as 60k$ + interests in the US

[Leeminhe]

Depends on the person for some answer is yes for some answer is no, if they think they can't do anything better than working in a qualified job they wont earn more.

[Christini]

There is actual data on this question.  A group of college graduates make more money than a matched group who don't go to college.

[Eulalila]

It's actually stupid how much more they pay graduates than non-graduates, even if the non-graduate does the job much better. Just one of the things that makes the world stupid today.

[Calibee]

If you work a job as graduated and not graduated of course you will get payed less and for most of the jobs you need diploma but people without graduation start their owns business and they earn even more than graduated people.

[Kevala]

It is quite the opposite, US colleges are way more bloated and inefficient. They increase the cost of tuition way faster than the actual incurred costs for them...

[Fionoa]

Austria is a very small country, still has some top 100 ranked college degree programs (BSC, MA, MBA and MSC)

[Anthomy]

This is true. and the fact that there are no requirements to borrow for college make it so colleges have zero incentive to try to keep costs in line.

[Murile]

We know that...That is basically what we said in both our posts.  We said if you didn't go to college and just started at a minimum wage job and moved up the ladder, versus someone who went to college and paid back loans how much money  you made/lost between the 2 people.

[Rosa bella]

In most cases yes since diploma is needed in applying for a better paying job. But it is not always the case since even you are not a college graduate, you can earn more money by being hardworking, skilled and wise.

[Rowane]

Law of supply and demand will mean wages have to go down for the "elite" due to competition.

[Na xter]

The data during recessions shows that the college educated people have low unemployment, and high school graduates have higher unemployment.

[Pegleku]

Presumably the college educated move to lower jobs, and the less educated people become unemployed.  So keep in mind that competition is a complex phenomenon, and the degree is still worthwhile.

[Ozinzin]

Where I went to school for Computer Science and am finding it tough to get a job at programming.  Everywhere I look everyone wants 3-5 years of experience coding with no degree required...

[Ursuka]

If you like coding job, join a few open source projects. You will get noticed fast if you are good at what you are doing.

[John Nathan]

For everyone one successful business, there are a hundred that failed. So, one non-graduate did better than all the other graduates. But the other graduates did better than the non-graduate.

[DAOfan]

I learned a lot in college and it was fun. But I am not really doing anything associated with my major, so it was in some sense a waste of time and money. Although I would never give up the experience. I think I would just take more risks. I didn't know what I wanted to do the entire time I was in college, because until you work in a field you really don't understand what it is all about.

[francis2]

It depends on what kind of degree you get, most people go to college and get a terrible degree and they got into debt because of it so they are not getting a lot of benefit from their college education.

[whycrypto]

Quick answer is yes, but I think the true answer is that college gives you more potential to make more money. In some ways I think the internet has leveled the playing field quite a bit as college used to be one of the only ways that anyone could rapidly gain information. Now with the easy access to massive amounts of information for free on the internet, the potential to earn more money is tipping to not going to college.

[ajaymukund]

It depends on the years of college students study hard or lazy, what is the acquisition or not? That is the decisive factor for you to make a lot of money. A successful person does not necessarily have to go to college. There are many people, successful entrepreneurs, earn a lot of money, earn a profit every year. Without college, that is, they have the foresight, the will and the endless effort, motivating themselves to earn a lot of money.

[Lutueng817]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

if I do, because with college we have knowledge that is systematic, has experience and insight, also have many relations that can work together and share information so much help us in increasing income, but success has many factors, especially the factors in us how much we want to get ahead in the economy or earn money.

[King Koy]

Study is not just for money earnings but to educate ones self. If to earn money is the purpose, I think bitcoin is the best.

[xcyd84885]

I make more money to buy a house, college is just a springboard of life.

[arifdadang34]

yes of course, because you get title.

[CNY dasd]

The bad thing about going to college is that it takes four years to get a diploma, but it lacks the chance to experience in society. Therefore, the basic diploma of graduation does not show any advantages.

[shaun98]

In the country I'm in, employers don't really hire diploma graduates that easily. A lot of people look down on them, not sure why though.

[mountrock]

If I did not finish college, it would have been too hard for me to get job at overseas. I even started business when I was in college. so yea, college gave me benefits in many ways

[Vilgax73]

College, or any kind of education is always worth it in my opinion. Whenever you think that education is expensive, think for a bit how expensive stupidity is. Knowledge brings an edge to the ones that have it in any kind of environment.

[KayceeMae]

I just finished my first year as a HS chemistry teacher. I make about $40k a year, and even though it cost me about $50k in loans for my bachelors and masters degrees, I am an employee in a public service so as long as I make minimum loan payments for ten years the federal government will pay them off for me. I don't make as much as I would like, or as much as some of my friends in other professions, but money isn't everything and I love getting up for my job every day.

[sirleaf]

Not really, these days in my own part of the world, certificate does not really matter it's about what you can offer

[Igoekah]

with the lecture, our science increases.dan thinking also increases.maybe we can make a lot of money, tpi with the way we diligent effort. business as much as possible .. we do not have to kuliayah in college.

[Visteryy]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

I do not think so. I went to college. I applied schoo because I did not have enough money for my schooling, but I think not going to college could make a lot of money.

[minnerETN]

agree to your topic, if we do not go to college. We will not be able to make much money

[casternetwork]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

Make more money or less because of each person's life. not related to college

[isetter]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

I'm not sure I made more money after college

[anussayme]

There are many billionaires, they do not need college

[piterpie]

College education is great, but I do not think that there are more money earned after college

[paynercash]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

In my country, there are many universities. And the unemployment of students after graduation is very much. about 80%

[waywethe]

Maybe your words are right, I just graduated from college and are still in the process of finding a job that matches my qualifications.

[Quonelet]

People that go to college are in average brighter, harder working, more ambitious and for more affluante families and they are meant to make more money (as a group) than people that don't go to college

If you factor in the cost of going to college will you really make more money because of the diploma you will get?

Support : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUFBk3477o (few minutes video debating the subject)

I agree with your opinion, many companies pay very high salaries to those with college degrees

[zissmieus]

I do not care about college, what I care about is that since I know bitcoin I can earn more money. 

[cherryganda]

make sense!

you go to college to have a good job and save for your future!
once you save enough money you will do business for a greener Pasture!

why don't we use our tuition to have a business and start the saving at an early age! what do you think?

[artemcrystal]

money - evil

[luqbone]

Nah..I think it depends on how you smartly work to earn more not because you went to college. Other college graduate I've known, especially those who are gifted in brains have a got a good job now and a good pay but I think they seem to earn just enough for them and their family.

[Myeth1]

Yes I do earn more money because I went to college. I have find a good job that compensate me good also. Besides, I am taking up masters degree for me to excel on the profession I am taking and it will also upgrade my salary grade status in the future.