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Author Topic: My mistake lost me 74 bitcoins. [Coins found.]  (Read 2656 times)
sgravina
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March 08, 2012, 05:09:15 AM
 #1

I just made a 74 bitcoin mistake.

I just sent 73.81264095 BTC to 1w2giXiGAHiFnjyUyVyMubszKRQb8MEYt

I got that address from the list of addresses that I have sent bitcoins to in the past.  I meant to use an address that I receive bitcoins to.

I intended to transfer those bitcoins from my MtGox account to my wallet.

Does anyone know how I might find the owner of that address and kindly ask for the bitcoins back.  It is an address that my daughter used on June 7.  She sent 1 bitcoin to them.  It is either a friend or more likely a gambling service.  For a few days there she was playing one of those stupid games where you guess something and either win or loose.  Is there a list of gambling sites that were active back in June?

Sam

--edit, next day--

The coins have been recovered.

It turned out the address belonged to both a friend and a gambling service.  It is the site BitCoinGamer.com.  The site is partly owned by my daughters friend.  He is sending my coins back to me as I write.

Let this be a leson to everyone out there as clumsy as me.
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Raoul Duke
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March 08, 2012, 05:12:43 AM
 #2

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Games

Nim
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March 08, 2012, 05:15:54 AM
 #3

Ask your daughter? Check your browser history? Unless you have an aggressive history setting, it may very well still be there or at least a clue.
Stephen Gornick
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March 08, 2012, 08:01:10 AM
 #4

Oh man, that's gonna leave a mark.

Sorry to hear this.

If it helps -- thus far it hasn't been spent:
 - http://blockexplorer.com/address/1w2giXiGAHiFnjyUyVyMubszKRQb8MEYt

mila
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March 08, 2012, 09:16:25 AM
 #5

it's not lost. someone sent me similar amount by mistake and dropped me a PM if he can get them back. he got them next day. I did not even notice because I don't run client 24/7 ... But it's important to kindly ask the right person to send them back to you.

If the gambling site looked a bit like second life and you could bet basically on everything (where a monkey sits down, how many nuts fall from a tree when you shake it, what fireworks will fire up etc.) that it's dragon's tale ... the service is around for ages dragons.tl I think is their url. the guy who runs the site frequents this forum and is nice and helpful. If your doughter could simply log in to that game, she could find the credit there and simply withdraw

your ad here:
sgravina
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March 08, 2012, 04:06:09 PM
 #6

Well now they have been spent.

7.384 of them went to: 169U7ZYRfghzehx9AmfMkXp4WPazWndb2s
and 66.42864095 of them went to 175jGmCFfZHETQZyDUsRZ3jZ1koLnUcPqX
those 66.42864095 went onto 14PEd9FGZZEQ2wGLAMi59yhkehJBhWTbyr

I wish there were a way to contact the owner of these.

Is it true the the new owner of these coins has no idea where they came from?  They were sent by MtGox so the adresses used were 4 addresses from MtGox's large pool of addresses.

There is nothing as far as I know to attach an identity to an address.

Sam
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March 08, 2012, 04:13:40 PM
 #7

That doesn't mean they're gone, in fact it just means the recipient is live and well.

Most Bitcoin wallets pool all funds together, so the fact that your coins moved was probably due simply to the bitcoin software commingling the funds and using them in another transaction. If its a gambling site, it should still recognize your deposit in full.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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March 08, 2012, 04:17:09 PM
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There is nothing as far as I know to attach an identity to an address.


That's what labels are for.


That doesn't mean they're gone, in fact it just means the recipient is live and well.

Most Bitcoin wallets pool all funds together, so the fact that your coins moved was probably due simply to the bitcoin software commingling the funds and using them in another transaction. If its a gambling site, it should still recognize your deposit in full.
+1, saved me some typing

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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Raoul Duke
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March 08, 2012, 07:10:20 PM
 #9

Did you ask your daughter to login into the dragon's tale website or even tell you if that was the right website where she was playing, like someone suggested some replies back?

Looking at the addresses in the blockchain will not get your money back.
Honestly I feel bad for you, but I can't say I feel sorry. Would you hand out $100 bills to anyone that passed by you without even looking and knowing those $100 bills should go to some other specific place?

Don't you triple check the data you just entered in your home-banking when doing a money transfer?
You need to do the same when sending bitcoins.

News Flash: Bitcoin IS money.

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March 08, 2012, 07:14:03 PM
 #10

--edit, next day--

The coins have been recovered.

It turned out the address belonged to both a friend and a gambling service.  It is the site BitCoinGamer.com.  The site is partly owned by my daughters friend.  He is sending my coins back to me as I write.

Let this be a leson to everyone out there as clumsy as me.

consider it a free lesson.  glad you got your coins back.
sgravina
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March 08, 2012, 07:16:08 PM
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Thankyou to the people who responded with helpful information.  Looking through my browsers history was an idea that didn't occur to me and probaby would have worked.

The coins have been recovered.

It turned out the address belonged to both a friend and a gambling service.  It is the site BitCoinGamer.com.  The site is partly owned by my daughters friend.  He is sending my coins back to me as I write.

Let this be a leson to everyone out there as clumsy as me.

I'm so glad it wasn't a defunct address like MyBitcoin or something.

I'm 54 years old and have lost lots more money than this over the years.  But this hurt more.  Maybe because it was my own clumsiness that caused the mistake and I don't know how to prevent it from happening again.  That irreversible click of the mouse is scary.  I don't think the general public will ever accept it.

Sam
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March 08, 2012, 07:23:55 PM
 #12

That irreversible click of the mouse is scary.  I don't think the general public will ever accept it.

Sam

the general public has no problems dealing in cash transactions.  if its a reputible business, there will be a refund policy regardless if payment was made in bitcoin or USD.  if the policy is that there will be no refunds, you'll know this going in, and will be able to make a risk reward evaluation for yourself.
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March 08, 2012, 08:15:44 PM
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I did the exact same thing as seen here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=57855.msg687102

This is obviously user error but it is encouraged by the poor UI.

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mila
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March 08, 2012, 08:22:20 PM
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I did the exact same thing as seen here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=57855.msg687102

This is obviously user error but it is encouraged by the poor UI.

QT client asks for user confirmation before tx goes out. still not enough warning that you're about to send money to an address?

your ad here:
Stephen Gornick
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March 08, 2012, 08:31:02 PM
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QT client asks for user confirmation before tx goes out. still not enough warning that you're about to send money to an address?

Perhaps if it were to show the history for the address that you are sending to.  Feedback such as ...
 Your transfers to this address:  Qty: nnn  Last transfer:  nn/nn/nn

though maybe that would be an advanced mode or only something that appears if you're sending larger amounts?

But the real problem is people re-using addresses.  The address for sending to Mt. Gox should not be what you see from a label in your own wallet from a previous transaction but from the address just created for you from Mt. Gox's site.  That's the proper method.  Especially for a transaction amount in the 73 BTC range!

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March 08, 2012, 08:43:24 PM
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That irreversible click of the mouse is scary.  I don't think the general public will ever accept it.

Sam

the general public has no problems dealing in cash transactions.  if its a reputible business, there will be a refund policy regardless if payment was made in bitcoin or USD.  if the policy is that there will be no refunds, you'll know this going in, and will be able to make a risk reward evaluation for yourself.
Cash is a bit different.  If you intend to give cash to one person, it would be very hard to accidentally give it to another person if you did the transaction in person.  Nevermind, they're pretty much the same, you're right.

I think this is why firstbits could prove to be important in the future.  Especially firstbits that mean something (i.e. 1mtgox).  Think about it.  Mtgox could generate all new addresses as starting with 1mtgox.  Then no one would be confused as in the above situation - if they weren't sending to a 1mtgox address, then they would know they weren't sending to mtgox.

A single video card would likely be enough processing power to generate 1mtgox addresses 24/7 and not run out of them when people request new ones.

With enough processing power, they could even go the route of creating a special address with firstbits that end with the start of a user's username.  So if my mtgox username was natural mine might be 1mtgoxnat.  It'd be handy to have an easy-to-remember address that you know went to your own mtgox account without even having to log in.

Actually, I guess that is already doable seeing as you can generate your own addresses and apply the private key to your mtgox account.  Hmmm....

Downside is, it forces transparency on companies or customers that may not wish for it.  Still, something to think about.
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March 08, 2012, 10:50:05 PM
 #17

I think this is why firstbits could prove to be important in the future.  Especially firstbits that mean something (i.e. 1mtgox).  Think about it.  Mtgox could generate all new addresses as starting with 1mtgox.  Then no one would be confused as in the above situation - if they weren't sending to a 1mtgox address, then they would know they weren't sending to mtgox.

A single video card would likely be enough processing power to generate 1mtgox addresses 24/7 and not run out of them when people request new ones.


+1, but with a big disadvantage: huge blow to anonymity.  All transactions going into MtGox will be publicly labeled for everyone to see.  And investigators etc. would know to ask MtGox anytime a trail led to them.

On the flip side, MtGox could do it on purpose to say "look, we're doing our best to make Bitcoin as transparent as possible", in an effort to be seen as more legitimate by regulators.  In addition, since anyone can make a 1mtgox address, a trail leading to such an address could plausibly be denied with "look, just because it says 1mtgox, doesn't automatically mean it's us".

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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March 08, 2012, 10:56:38 PM
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I think this is why firstbits could prove to be important in the future.  Especially firstbits that mean something (i.e. 1mtgox).  Think about it.  Mtgox could generate all new addresses as starting with 1mtgox.  Then no one would be confused as in the above situation - if they weren't sending to a 1mtgox address, then they would know they weren't sending to mtgox.

A single video card would likely be enough processing power to generate 1mtgox addresses 24/7 and not run out of them when people request new ones.


+1, but with a big disadvantage: huge blow to anonymity.  All transactions going into MtGox will be publicly labeled for everyone to see.  And investigators etc. would know to ask MtGox anytime a trail led to them.

On the flip side, MtGox could do it on purpose to say "look, we're doing our best to make Bitcoin as transparent as possible", in an effort to be seen as more legitimate by regulators.  In addition, since anyone can make a 1mtgox address, a trail leading to such an address could plausibly be denied with "look, just because it says 1mtgox, doesn't automatically mean it's us".
Yeah, I think you hit it with the last point.  Anyone could conceivably generate a 1mtgox, then filter coins in and out of it to completely obscure the true number of coins hitting mtgox.

But it would certainly reduce anonymity, as you stated.  If mtgox thought about doing something like that, I would expect it would be optional for whoever wanted to use it, and everyone else could continue using completely random addresses.  I know for me, it would make it one step clearer that I was sending coins to mtgox and not someone else by mistake!  I wouldn't mind the reduced anonymity, since I have nothing to hide from regulators or anyone else.
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March 08, 2012, 11:30:18 PM
 #19

I'm 54 years old and have lost lots more money than this over the years.  But this hurt more.  Maybe because it was my own clumsiness that caused the mistake and I don't know how to prevent it from happening again.  That irreversible click of the mouse is scary.  I don't think the general public will ever accept it.

Sam
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March 08, 2012, 11:32:48 PM
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I did the exact same thing as seen here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=57855.msg687102

This is obviously user error but it is encouraged by the poor UI.

agreed. although i haven't made the error myself, yet, it seems common.
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