StrikeSapphire | We need some support.

[mem]

That being said, abusing a system is not cheating, though it is a sleazy practice at best. Just like if I and my girlfriend were to play side by side showing each other our hands during a poker tournament.

No, that's cheating.

Yes, that is collusion as previously stated, both are sleazy practices and imho as bad as each other.
In hindsight that sentence is not very clear.

editing for clarity.

[dooglus]

Hi guys, its mem - the beloved & hated gambling list maintainer.

Dooglus FYI site operators from several sites contacted me over a month ago with concerns regarding your (and 2 other members) activities, mainly potential referral abuse.
I defended you saying I had seen nothing on the forums to demonstrate you were abusing anything but I did acknowledge that the descriptions of the refereed accounts and their activities did sound like someone purposefully generating accounts to collect referrals.

That's so weird.  Are you sure it was me?  I don't think I have ever used a referral code for anything except Sapphire, and the only two people who ever deposited using my Sapphire code are IRL friends of Deb's.

I've only gambled at Seals, Sapphire, Bitzino, SatoshiDice and MyriadCoins, and of those only Sapphire even offers a referral scheme as far as I know.

I signed up for some ridiculous "bitcoin pyramid scheme" over a year ago, and may have posted my URL for that somewhere once, but I doubt if that's what you're talking about, so you've got me stumped.

[Raoul Duke]

Hi guys, its mem - the beloved & hated gambling list maintainer.

Dooglus FYI site operators from several sites contacted me over a month ago with concerns regarding your (and 2 other members) activities, mainly potential referral abuse.
I defended you saying I had seen nothing on the forums to demonstrate you were abusing anything but I did acknowledge that the descriptions of the refereed accounts and their activities did sound like someone purposefully generating accounts to collect referrals.

That's so weird.  Are you sure it was me?  I don't think I have ever used a referral code for anything except Sapphire, and the only two people who ever deposited using my Sapphire code are IRL friends of Deb's.

I've only gambled at Seals, Sapphire, Bitzino, SatoshiDice and MyriadCoins, and of those only Sapphire even offers a referral scheme as far as I know.

I signed up for some ridiculous "bitcoin pyramid scheme" over a year ago, and may have posted my URL for that somewhere once, but I doubt if that's what you're talking about, so you've got me stumped.

WTF??? Why are you giving any credit to anything mem says?
He's a delusional character who's still screming that BFL is a scam and BFL Single mining devices don't exist, despite hundreds, maybe thousands of them were already delivered and are mining away lol

[dooglus]

WTF??? Why are you giving any credit to anything mem says?
He's a delusional character who's still screming that BFL is a scam and BFL Single mining devices don't exist, despite hundreds, maybe thousands of them were already delivered and are mining away lol

I don't know the guy.  I spoke to him briefly in the Sapphire poker lobby a few days ago when we were trying to get one of the 50 cent freerolls going.  I also told him he had his info wrong about the max blackjack bet at Sapphire on his list of gambling sites.  Other than that I've not seen much of him on the forums, and yours is the first comment I've read about him, positive or negative.  I don't mine, so I tend to avoid any thread with BFL in its title.

[mem]

Hi guys, its mem - the beloved & hated gambling list maintainer.

Dooglus FYI site operators from several sites contacted me over a month ago with concerns regarding your (and 2 other members) activities, mainly potential referral abuse.
I defended you saying I had seen nothing on the forums to demonstrate you were abusing anything but I did acknowledge that the descriptions of the refereed accounts and their activities did sound like someone purposefully generating accounts to collect referrals.

That's so weird.  Are you sure it was me?  I don't think I have ever used a referral code for anything except Sapphire, and the only two people who ever deposited using my Sapphire code are IRL friends of Deb's.

I've only gambled at Seals, Sapphire, Bitzino, SatoshiDice and MyriadCoins, and of those only Sapphire even offers a referral scheme as far as I know.

I signed up for some ridiculous "bitcoin pyramid scheme" over a year ago, and may have posted my URL for that somewhere once, but I doubt if that's what you're talking about, so you've got me stumped.

Yes Dooglus you were mentioned.
Honestly I was unsure what I could do to help if you were scamming via referrals as I just maintain the list.

If you ever figure out how to game a pyramid system (without being at the top ) be sure to let me know.

[mem]

WTF??? Why are you giving any credit to anything mem says?
He's a delusional character who's still screming that BFL is a scam and BFL Single mining devices don't exist, despite hundreds, maybe thousands of them were already delivered and are mining away lol

Psy, I dont know where to begin (his entire summary is made up of lies and out of date & out of context quotes) so I wont bother.
Im guessing you are a child who I have previously frustrated and are unable to see past your butt hurt in any further dealings.

I suggest you grow up and shut up unless you have something relevant of substance to contribute to this discussion. Arguing that "I DONT LIKE MEM HE WAS MEAN TO MEEEEEE MUMMY" is just pathetic.

There are many threads discussing Big Fucking Liars if you actually wanted to discuss your grievances instead of trolling here because you are still upset.

[Raoul Duke]

WTF??? Why are you giving any credit to anything mem says?
He's a delusional character who's still screming that BFL is a scam and BFL Single mining devices don't exist, despite hundreds, maybe thousands of them were already delivered and are mining away lol

Psy, I dont know where to begin (his entire summary is made up of lies and out of date & out of context quotes) so I wont bother. Im guessing you are a child who I have previously frustrated and are unable to see past your butt hurt in any further dealings.
Trolling this thread here because of your butthurt is just pathetic and childish (Inaba is that you ).

Anyway, there is no room for your lies or personal insults here please attempt to stay on topic (I know your butthurt makes it hard).  I suggest you grow up and shut up unless you have something of substance to contribute to this discussion.

There are many many many threads discussing Big Fucking Liars where you are able to defend them and insult anyone daring to question them as much as your little fanboys heart desires.
This is a discussion regarding StrikeSapphire.

Me, defending BFL? I don't think so... Maybe you've seen me telling to raging lunatics thet they are ragng lunatics, which are two completely different things. I don't even mine, so I could care less about defending some company that produces mining devices. But you're still a lunatic. If anyone here is butthurt it's you, not me...
I love it how raging lunatics always seem to confuse people who call out their bullshit with people defending someone or something.
Just one more time, to clear things up: I'm attacking your bullshit, not defending BFL. Got it, lunatic?

[mem]

WTF??? Why are you giving any credit to anything mem says?
He's a delusional character who's still screming that BFL is a scam and BFL Single mining devices don't exist, despite hundreds, maybe thousands of them were already delivered and are mining away lol

Psy, I dont know where to begin (his entire summary is made up of lies and out of date & out of context quotes) so I wont bother. Im guessing you are a child who I have previously frustrated and are unable to see past your butt hurt in any further dealings.
Trolling this thread here because of your butthurt is just pathetic and childish (Inaba is that you ).

Anyway, there is no room for your lies or personal insults here please attempt to stay on topic (I know your butthurt makes it hard).  I suggest you grow up and shut up unless you have something of substance to contribute to this discussion.

There are many many many threads discussing Big Fucking Liars where you are able to defend them and insult anyone daring to question them as much as your little fanboys heart desires.
This is a discussion regarding StrikeSapphire.

Me, defending BFL? I don't think so... Maybe you've seen me telling to raging lunatics thet they are ragng lunatics, which are two completely different things. I don't even mine, so I could care less about defending some company that produces mining devices. But you're still a lunatic. If anyone here is butthurt it's you, not me...
I love it how raging lunatics always seem to confuse people who call out their bullshit with people defending someone or something.
Just one more time, to clear things up: I'm attacking your bullshit, not defending BFL. Got it, lunatic?

So what is your reasoning behind your childish tantrum just now ?

How it is relevant at all.

You as a individual do not respect me..... noted and not a shit given.
Enough people consider my opinion on games respectable  that I am frequently contacted and asked to comment.

So again I say, you are a butthurt little troll trolling unsuccessfully.

edit: so I do not let you troll this thread of topic I have placed you temporarily on ignore.
Should you wish to discuss your hurt feelings please drop me an email, I have a feeling you might be more mature without an audience to play up for.

[Raoul Duke]

So, Josh... mem just told me in a private message that you accused me of referral fraud?
Got anything to back that up? Because I'm not even going to give you any arguments why that isn't possible, but if you wish to accuse me, please do it publicly and present proof beyond resonable doubt, or else the only fraudster will be yourself.

I'm starting to sense that everyone who wins more than he deposits in Strike Sapphire will be accused of fraud.

mem, you better do an update on your gambling thread and warn people about this SS quirk.

[mem]

OK Im getting distracted from work here so this is a quick update then Im back into it.

Dooglus I went back through my emails etc and did not find you mentioned, I fear I have mistaken accusations against you for accusations against PSY (small world isnt it).

PSY has been under suspicion of referral fraud and questions raised with myself (and others) regarding the activities.
The information provided is quite convincing (Id believe it) and I find it unlikely the site admin went to manufacture this scenario around PSY - there is not a simple explanation for that motive. The simpler explanation is that PSY did indeed abuse the referral system and wishes to hide it.

I am not disclosing who or what site (you can guess Im sure) or the contents of the emails / PM's.
There is a reason people chose to discuss these things in private when there is only suspicion.

To make my position clear again:
I like SS's site.
My previous dealings with ssaCEO has been without issue (but I am not a normal client).
The handling of this dooglus issue was bad to say the least.
Abusing a referral system is a dick move, so is abusing any promotion imho.
I still stand by the SS site and I hope ssaCEO will come back refreshed and clean up this mess and confusion.

A polite refusal or even a simple ban would of sufficed I feel rather than the threads we have all seen by now.

[mem]

mem, you better do an update on your gambling thread and warn people about this SS quirk.

If i wish to retain my lists integrity Id better do no such thing.

At this point in time all we have is a unpleasant (would you say ugly Dooglus ?)  dispute between a site admin and a gamer. 
There are absolutely no claims of cheating, unfair results and 0 payout issues. Should any of these matters change contact me directly by email ASAP.

For example: You could be the world's biggest 'Inaba' and Id still list your site if everything checked out.

[Raoul Duke]

I'm still waiting for the evidence... inb4 thread locked because it's yet another PR disaster for SS.
I'm fucking sorry I ever sent any of my friends there as Josh clearly isn't worth the trouble.
Oh, and before anyone asks, not one of my friends used my referral link because it wasn't even active at the translated version of the site.

I do affiliate marketing for a living, and never was I banned from any program or accused of fraud, because my leads are real, and I have thousands and thousands of dollars received from several companies to prove it.
Real companies, the kind that pay me for my leads every week/2 weeks/month, not the kind that deposits any money I make on their site so I can just gamble and lose it, like SS does, with their WR.

Josh and mem, one of you 2 will have to put up or shut up. I'm not letting this go.

[Raoul Duke]

OK Im getting distracted from work here so this is a quick update then Im back into it.

Dooglus I went back through my emails etc and did not find you mentioned, I fear I have mistaken accusations against you for accusations against PSY (small world isnt it).

PSY has been under suspicion of referral fraud and questions raised with myself (and others) regarding the activities.
The information provided is quite convincing (Id believe it) and I find it unlikely the site admin went to manufacture this scenario around PSY - there is not a simple explanation for that motive. The simpler explanation is that PSY did indeed abuse the referral system and wishes to hide it.

I am not disclosing who or what site (you can guess Im sure) or the contents of the emails / PM's.
There is a reason people chose to discuss these things in private when there is only suspicion.

To make my position clear again:
I like SS's site.
My previous dealings with ssaCEO has been without issue (but I am not a normal client).
The handling of this dooglus issue was bad to say the least.
Abusing a referral system is a dick move, so is abusing any promotion imho.
I still stand by the SS site and I hope ssaCEO will come back refreshed and clean up this mess and confusion.

A polite refusal or even a simple ban would of sufficed I feel rather than the threads we have all seen by now.

Quoting for future memory

[mem]

Josh and mem, one of you 2 will have to put up or shut up. I'm not letting this go.

My what an entitled and unpleasant person you are, 1 page ago you attack me without provocation now you are making demands.

Civility people (ssaCEO, PSY and potential Dooglus sock puppets), it goes a long way.
My automatic attitude to any demand is to say no, because I am a bit of a prick - so .... NO

edit: Id say no anyway, this is for ssaCEO to address. I put my 2c in to vouch for the site and the operator and to call for calmer heads.

[Raoul Duke]

Josh and mem, one of you 2 will have to put up or shut up. I'm not letting this go.

My what an entitled and unpleasant person you are, 1 page ago you attack me without provocation now you are making demands.

So I'm the entitled and unpleasent when it was you who accused ME of referral fraud.

I don't know if you're lying or telling the truth about Josh saying it, but one of you will get out of this looking bad.

[ssaCEO]

Okay. Everybody stay calm! Psy & Mem, this is a misunderstanding.

The Dooglus situation didn't have to do with referral abuse per se. I don't want to get into that again here... all of that is covered in the other thread, ends w/ Dooglus talking about how he beat our system by counting cards which was just another of many issues we had with him. I agree I handled it badly and lost my temper, and should have dealt with that in a better way. I agree I'm sometimes rough around the edges and not the best guy at handling PR.

However!

Mem: We never accused Psy of referral fraud. In fact I've talked with him and he's helped me with SEO tips. He's a good player on our site, has always been friendly at the tables, and he's been generous with his time. He is not under any suspicion. AFAIK he hasn't done anything wrong.

Psy: This misunderstanding arose for one reason, which was that a few months ago we got a bunch of referrals from your link in the "Mem's Gambling List" thread, but we had none from Mem's own link. I don't know why that is. I think it was the fact that your link was the most visible. I suggested to Mem that he could make his own referral link more visible to capture some of the traffic from the thread.

We looked internally at your referrals at the time to see if there were any questionable play patterns involving the referrals. There were not. We did not have further discussions about it with Mem.

I should be clear that even if Psy was telling people "hey go to this thread and click my link" that is by no means referral abuse. We're happy to have that. Referral abuse is if the accounts being referred belong to the same person. We thoroughly analyze these patterns for all referrals, and I want to stress that there is no evidence that Psy did anything unusual or was even aware that people were clicking that link.

I can understand why Mem might have taken away from this that Psy was up to something, I think at the time I wrote that we were going to look into the reasons; however as far as we were concerned after checking the reports, there were no problems, case closed. Psy does not appear on any of our internal reports and has never raised any red flags in our system.

Mem, I don't know if or what you've heard from other site owners, and we don't share information with other sites about players.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding this has caused between you guys. You're both great guests on our site and we like having both of you there. I hope this clears the air.

[mem]

Okay. Everybody stay calm! Psy & Mem, this is a misunderstanding.

The Dooglus situation didn't have to do with referral abuse per se. I don't want to get into that again here... all of that is covered in the other thread, ends w/ Dooglus talking about how he beat our system by counting cards which was just another of many issues we had with him. I agree I handled it badly and lost my temper, and should have dealt with that in a better way. I agree I'm sometimes rough around the edges and not the best guy at handling PR.

However!

Mem: We never accused Psy of referral fraud. In fact I've talked with him and he's helped me with SEO tips. He's a good player on our site, has always been friendly at the tables, and he's been generous with his time. He is not under any suspicion. AFAIK he hasn't done anything wrong.

Psy: This misunderstanding arose for one reason, which was that a few months ago we got a bunch of referrals from your link in the "Mem's Gambling List" thread, but we had none from Mem's own link. I don't know why that is. I think it was the fact that your link was the most visible. I suggested to Mem that he could make his own referral link more visible to capture some of the traffic from the thread.

We looked internally at your referrals at the time to see if there were any questionable play patterns involving the referrals. There were not. We did not have further discussions about it with Mem.

I should be clear that even if Psy was telling people "hey go to this thread and click my link" that is by no means referral abuse. We're happy to have that. Referral abuse is if the accounts being referred belong to the same person. We thoroughly analyze these patterns for all referrals, and I want to stress that there is no evidence that Psy did anything unusual or was even aware that people were clicking that link.

I can understand why Mem might have taken away from this that Psy was up to something, I think at the time I wrote that we were going to look into the reasons; however as far as we were concerned after checking the reports, there were no problems, case closed. Psy does not appear on any of our internal reports and has never raised any red flags in our system.

Mem, I don't know if or what you've heard from other site owners, and we don't share information with other sites about players.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding this has caused between you guys. You're both great guests on our site and we like having both of you there. I hope this clears the air.

Well thank you for clearing up that confusion, we all have our bad days (try not to have them at work if you can ).

Running an online/other casino means you will have players rock up with their systems (or looking for exploits). I do it myself (see my satoshidice bot). It is up to the casino to ensure a profit, sure live casino's can and will kick you out (2x for me) but they will wear the bad PR if handled bad.

If card counting is indeed an issue, so be it or up the deck count or ban the player.

Glad to see the thread is back on track, Psy I hope this has cleared up any confusion.

Dooglus I hope you get a satisfactory resolution, I hope you do not get banned but please note I consider site bans the right of the casino operator and it would not keep a site out of my list (refusing to payout any wins however would).

[Raoul Duke]

I don't think my referrals were coming from mem thread but from the link I had on my forum signature. The bit.ly link stats are public and the link was clicked more than 680 times.

About you mem... all I can say is that all I said about you is the truth. You're nothing more than a delusional pathological liar and anything you say shouldn't be given any credit whatsoever.

[ssaCEO]

I don't think my referrals were coming from mem thread but from the link I had on my forum signature. The bit.ly link stats are public and the link was clicked more than 680 times.

Probably a lot of them were. At the time I was looking into whether Mem's thread was sending any traffic to us. There were inbound clicks from his thread, but none with his affiliate code. In any case, when we looked at the behavior of the people you sent in, there was nothing odd there. I just looked again and there's nothing strange about it.

Now please guys, break it up. Like I said, you're both valued guests and we don't want to be in the middle of anything. I'm obviously over my limit on the amount of yelling going on in my threads already (mostly my own yelling, it's true)... I'd like to avoid giving the impression that I'm running some kinda madhouse over there. I realize I set a bad tone the last couple days, but can we all be civilized and get back to business?

[mem]

About you mem... all I can say is that all I said about you is the truth. You're nothing more than a delusional pathological liar and anything you say shouldn't be given any credit whatsoever.

I still dont get where your delusions come from ?

You lie and lie and lie, get called out on it and go quite (unable to defend your position I guess), then revert back to lying once again without ever justifying your positions. Ontop of that the childish insults..... I mean why bother even talking to me if thats your end point, I stop reading after the first one as you just deteriorate into a childish rant with no substance.

Ignoring you for now until I see a civil email explaining wtf I am lying about, as you have clearly demonstrated the moment you have an audience you cannot ignore past butt hurts.

How about you keep your nasty BFL fanboy butt hurt displays to appropriate threads, ie mining subforums.

Now please guys, break it up. Like I said, you're both valued guests and we don't want to be in the middle of anything. I'm obviously over my limit on the amount of yelling going on in my threads already (mostly my own yelling, it's true)... I'd like to avoid giving the impression that I'm running some kinda madhouse over there. I realize I set a bad tone the last couple days, but can we all be civilized and get back to business?

Done and done. Psy can either continue his ranting and ignored or discuss his personal grievances (which have no place here) in pm.

Keep rocking SS and keep that bitcoin dream alive.