[ANN] BTC Cake - It's a piece of cake.

[Chillance]

Okay I'm nearly there. now there's 1 more thing I don't understand.

What is salt for? Like I understand the explanation, it gets added to the formula to determine who the winner is, but the part that says "you are able to affect the result" I don't really understand.

You will be using a random string or putting your own string in but you wont actually know how you are going to affect the result.  So could I make the salt "H3LL0" ? Or is there a certain set of rules to follow when putting in a salt string?

I get what's its for though, it helps to keep the result random so that you cant affect who wins and who loses. (well, I guess that's what its for )

Yes, you are correct. It will affect the end result as it's used together with the formula as you say. You are able to affect the result because it is part of the formula. But, you don't know how (and is how we want it because then anyone could cheat). And which is why the cake's secret "salt" is hidden, because otherwise anyone could use that and calculate with their salt what the end result would be.

However, I like it like this because everybody affects the results. If you put "H3LL0" it will give one result. If you put "HEllO", it will be a totally different result. But, you don't know what. But one of them could mean you win...

So yes, you can put whatever in there (currently limited to a-z, A-Z, 0-9 characters to make it safe and not use some weird character which could mess things up). So yea, you can put "H3LL0" in there. I've actually been thinking about that, because there is no blocking for profanity (yet)...   But then again, I would only see it as "certain characters in a particular order"...  

Btw, other sites call this a "seed", but I find the name "salt" more suiting for what it's for. In cryptology, when sites saves your password, you use a "salt" with your password to make the SHA different in case same password was used, and to make table lookups harder.

    salt adds additional randomization to password hash, and is considered part of the hash. That is the salted password hash would be (salt, H(salt|pass)). This is also analagous to what is known as an Initialization Vector (IV) used for encryption, but unlike some schemes which use a deterministic (or predictable) IV -- a salt offers a database additional protection when selected at random.

    seed is analagous to a key used for an encryption block cipher, but instead the input to a stream cipher (or sometimes known as a CSPRNG - cryptographically secure pseudorandom number generator), unlike salt, it is meant to be kept secret.

Note to self: Also, I need to get "edit salt" in place, as it should be possible to change the salt as long as time isn't up yet.

[gordoh]

The more I think about this website, the more I am liking it!

I really hope you can get this thing off the ground because it will definitely be a success if marketed right. If there is anything I can do to help you, please send me a PM and I will do what I can. I really want to be a part of this project. And congratulations on such a fantastic idea 

[Chillance]

The more I think about this website, the more I am liking it!

I really hope you can get this thing off the ground because it will definitely be a success if marketed right. If there is anything I can do to help you, please send me a PM and I will do what I can. I really want to be a part of this project. And congratulations on such a fantastic idea  

Well I'm really glad to hear that! I have put a lot of thought and time into this. I actually just now finished a simple script to backup the database with timestamps and everything. And, blockchain.info sends me backups every time the wallet updates. So that is all good. Again, I really want to make this work properly. Even though I use services, I also prefer having a backups locally.

I agree, this can be really fun if it takes off actually. The thing is, I'm no bank. Meaning, the money basically goes between users (it's almost like a trading site ). So, you aren't playing against the house really, although I take a small cut (hey, gotta support this site and me somehow) But anyway, the users get the most bitcoins, and I really like it like that. And there is a cake for everyone. If not, create one. Did you notice that every cake has it's own chat as well? Could be handy later on when more people are on that cake to chat. Maybe new cool ideas can come from it. Oh, and there is a "global" chat in the Dashboard too. I have so many ideas, but so little time.

I will surely include you among those that get a small amount of real bitcoins for helping me out soon then. I just need to figure out how to do it the best way... which brings me to the following question:

Any idea what "marketed right" would entail?

[Chillance]

Cool, so http://www.btccake.com/cake/99c44e59efad2ff9c96e77fcc56855671a4ef656d6b7acecbaeeeef398a22a16 ended and everything went well there. Apparently I lost 0.1 PlayBTC, and some other guy. But the third guy on wedge 3 is now 0.2 PlayBTC richer. I checked database, and all fine there too. Now, I know PlayBTC doesn't really mean anything (yet), but it's still fun to see this working!

(I don't take a fee on PlayBTC, but maybe I should? So you guys don't think you were fooled? I mean, there is no point taking a fee for made up play money, but maybe it would be less of a chock for when using real bitcoins later?) Well, I think you guys are smart, so I won't start with some stupid fee on made up play money.

[Chillance]

I noticed a new cake now which is for real bitcoins. That is cool, but I don't think anyone will bet there yet. Which is fine. You guys better wait using real bitcoins a bit more anyway (I need to test more using blockchain.info).

What is cool here though, is that if a cake doesn't have any bets, it will just be deleted from database when time ends! That way, the database will be clean from unused cakes. So, don't be alarmed if a hash to a cake doesn't work anymore. Or if you wonder why the cake you created is gone. It's just some neat cleanups I added to the code. (I told you I've been working on this for a long time)

[gordoh]

Okay so I lost with the playBTC... I was on wedge 1. I dunno who was on wedge 3, but its good to see you have another follower

Marketing

The first thing that you should definitely do, is make sure that it is user friendly for normal people. (Like try use simpler terms. The word string can make people really confused if they don't understand what a string is. Maybe try explain it a bit simpler, IE call it a randomizer instead of strings or something?)

Then you need to try and get your link out on betting websites. Ultimately you have a gambling site here so maybe stick to that niche.

These are just a few ideas, I'm no marketing pro but I do know a thing or 2 about SEO. If PrimeDice can get big, then I don't see any reason why BtcCAke cant get just as big or even bigger! You might have to put a bit of money into the marketing and SEO unless you are really patient and willing to do a lot of work submitting your link to different sites.

Social networking is also really important for marketing. I suggest you add a twitter and facebook button to your site. Then you can inform people of new cakes as they are made and announce winners too. Also you should get a mailing list. When people register, they need to give their emails, then you can mail them once the cake has timed out so they can know immediately if they have won or not.

I will keep thinking of ways to improve the project. If I get any more ideas, I will post for you.

[Vortex20000]

I highly suggest sinking some bitcoins into advertising sites.

Try the ad function for freebitco.in or use adbit.co.

[Chillance]

Okay so I lost with the playBTC... I was on wedge 1. I dunno who was on wedge 3, but its good to see you have another follower

Marketing

The first thing that you should definitely do, is make sure that it is user friendly for normal people. (Like try use simpler terms. The word string can make people really confused if they don't understand what a string is. Maybe try explain it a bit simpler, IE call it a randomizer instead of strings or something?)

Then you need to try and get your link out on betting websites. Ultimately you have a gambling site here so maybe stick to that niche.

These are just a few ideas, I'm no marketing pro but I do know a thing or 2 about SEO. If PrimeDice can get big, then I don't see any reason why BtcCAke cant get just as big or even bigger! You might have to put a bit of money into the marketing and SEO unless you are really patient and willing to do a lot of work submitting your link to different sites.

Social networking is also really important for marketing. I suggest you add a twitter and facebook button to your site. Then you can inform people of new cakes as they are made and announce winners too. Also you should get a mailing list. When people register, they need to give their emails, then you can mail them once the cake has timed out so they can know immediately if they have won or not.

I will keep thinking of ways to improve the project. If I get any more ideas, I will post for you.

Wow, thanks for the feedback! I hope you aren't too sad about loosing the play money... As I said, I can just give you extra PlayBTC if you want...

Anyway, things to do and think about for sure. I will surely do more of the linking stuff later, when a few people have tested using bitcoins for a while. I just want to make sure it's robust before the site has billions of users and it will be much more work fixing issues then.

Oh, and I just created twitter account at www.twitter.com/BTCCake

About emails, I like it this way where people who wants to be anonymous, they can be. The unique user url is quite impossible for anyone to guess, and you can lock it down with a password. So email is totally optional, but handy for recovery and notifications though (although that is not in place yet).

[gordoh]

I was just busy with a new cake and I noticed you have a results simulator. It doesn't make complete sense to me how that works.

It says:

user #1 bet     user #2 bet     user #3 bet      user #4 bet


My question is, in the field under each of these, do you put the amount they bet or the wedge they bet on? Also, shouldn't you have a field for both amount and which wedge they bet on?

and finally, shouldn't there be an option to add more  users to the simulator? Incase there are like 10 wedges or something?

Just something to look at

Edit:

I started a new cake, just testing this whole thing out properly so I know what im going into when the real money comes

http://www.btccake.com/cake/59b8e5efb98c54c757649061c69fd3d13bc0fb90225d8de10dab4ba19c58f245

[Chillance]

I was just busy with a new cake and I noticed you have a results simulator. It doesn't make complete sense to me how that works.

It says:

user #1 bet     user #2 bet     user #3 bet      user #4 bet


My question is, in the field under each of these, do you put the amount they bet or the wedge they bet on? Also, shouldn't you have a field for both amount and which wedge they bet on?

and finally, shouldn't there be an option to add more  users to the simulator? Incase there are like 10 wedges or something?

Just something to look at

Edit:

I started a new cake, just testing this whole thing out properly so I know what im going into when the real money comes

http://www.btccake.com/cake/59b8e5efb98c54c757649061c69fd3d13bc0fb90225d8de10dab4ba19c58f245

Haha, yea, the Simulator is kinda left behind and lacking. It's hard coded that user #1 and #2 bet on wedge 1, user #3 and user #4 on wedge 2. And you need at least one bet on both wedges. But, forget the simulator. It's not really needed. Maybe I improve it later.

Cool! A new yummy Cake. I put a slightly higher bet than you to make it interesting. I have a slightly better chance of winning, but can loose more...

[Chillance]

I highly suggest sinking some bitcoins into advertising sites.

Try the ad function for freebitco.in or use adbit.co.

Do you have any idea if it works? I never click those ads myself... But could be worth a try though, so thanks for the suggestion!

[Chillance]

I want to publicly thank gordoh for helping me testing the site with me so we can make sure it's robust for the rest of you guys. It's looking really great so far, and really the main issues have been special treatment for how blockchain.info works.

Oh, and I just added the possibility now to edit your salt until time runs out for a cake! Making it even more difficult for anyone to guess the result, as anyone can change it like 1s before time is out.

[Chillance]

And now you can see the last finished cakes in the Dashboard...

[gordoh]

I want to publicly thank gordoh for helping me testing the site with me so we can make sure it's robust for the rest of you guys. It's looking really great so far, and really the main issues have been special treatment for how blockchain.info works.

Oh, and I just added the possibility now to edit your salt until time runs out for a cake! Making it even more difficult for anyone to guess the result, as anyone can change it like 1s before time is out.

Thanx you for the recognition

It looks really good man.

[Chillance]

I want to publicly thank gordoh for helping me testing the site with me so we can make sure it's robust for the rest of you guys. It's looking really great so far, and really the main issues have been special treatment for how blockchain.info works.

Oh, and I just added the possibility now to edit your salt until time runs out for a cake! Making it even more difficult for anyone to guess the result, as anyone can change it like 1s before time is out.

Thanx you for the recognition

It looks really good man.

I always try to give credit where credit is due.

I think I will announce here when I will test a promotion... I'm thinking to give away BTC so people can play and test with. And withdraw to your hearts content.

[UberNifty]

Any idea what "marketed right" would entail?

http://BitcoinPRBuzz.com No affiliation whatsoever. But if you want your gig to Go Big... This is how the Big Boyz and Girlz of Bitcoin do it.

[gordoh]

Any idea what "marketed right" would entail?

http://BitcoinPRBuzz.com No affiliation whatsoever. But if you want your gig to Go Big... This is how the Big Boyz and Girlz of Bitcoin do it.

Resource Limit Is Reached
The website is temporarily unable to service your request as it exceeded resource limit. Please try again later.

Maybe its my browser

[Chillance]

Any idea what "marketed right" would entail?

http://BitcoinPRBuzz.com No affiliation whatsoever. But if you want your gig to Go Big... This is how the Big Boyz and Girlz of Bitcoin do it.

Resource Limit Is Reached
The website is temporarily unable to service your request as it exceeded resource limit. Please try again later.

Maybe its my browser

I had the same issue, but now it seems to work.

[Chillance]

Man, I'm really getting fed up with external issues I have with blockchain.info. How do you guys use that service with different accounts?

Apparently, I have to pay a fee using the "move" command! That is just stupid. I will not pay for transferring between different accounts in my own wallet. Especially since that means you guys lose more than necessary. Using a local bitcoind it works more as expected, as moving between accounts, really is just an internal thing, and not broadcast over the network. Which is why it doesn't require a transfer fee.

Basically I have this:

account1 -> address1
account1 -> address2

account2 -> address3

account3 -> address4
account3 -> address5

Same account is just the same label. Now I can just use the move command, to move between different accounts at no cost. This is super handy and a much more robust way of keeping track of everybody’s money! And, extra security as if a user has money in their own account, they can't withdraw more than they have... if I had a shared account for everybody it could be messy. But, since I have different accounts for every user, I also have build-in protection with bitcoind when it comes to withdrawing money. Basically this separates users in a more robust way. And it's hell of a lot easier to work with.

Actually, check this: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5631/how-does-the-move-command-work

That is NOT how blockchain.info does it, which is a BIG issue for me.

Why do I need the move command? Well, that is how I transfer between you guys. Quick and easy. You basically have your winnings straight away!

[UberNifty]

Definitely not your browser. Due to the sheer volume of business they get, I've noticed on other occasions they've been temporarily down. Usually not for long, though.

Any idea what "marketed right" would entail?

http://BitcoinPRBuzz.com No affiliation whatsoever. But if you want your gig to Go Big... This is how the Big Boyz and Girlz of Bitcoin do it.

Resource Limit Is Reached
The website is temporarily unable to service your request as it exceeded resource limit. Please try again later.

Maybe its my browser