Proof of Work Vs Proof of Stake

[clout]

PoW is PoS with the stake being your mining rigs.

Yes. These are all resource-democratic systems.

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[darkota]

And don't forget the main problem about POW and this is the most important one.... every investor or long term buyer has to pay to the miner for securing the blockchain. POS coins investor don't they them self are doing their part to secure it and get even PAID!

No one will be a slave to POW coins once they notice how the game is going on.

Imagine if the US dollar was distributed by proof of stake. 1% of Americans would get all the money!

Furthermore, money is created with work. If a currency isn't backed by work what gives it value? I feel commitment to the creation of wealth should require some financial backing by each of us (mining equipment and power - just like the US mint and their custom ASIC printers).  If you literally have no skin in the game then what is the point?

You have no understanding of what money is... Money is debt, it is not created by "work" (whatever that means). Currencies today are not backed by anything that is why the are referred to as fiat (latin for "it shall be"). The top 1% of Americans posses more than 40% of the nations wealth (all the money).

If you took a physics class you would realize in a closed system such as the planet Earth.....nothing can be created nor destroyed. Energy is just transfer through a process called work. There is a process of work in creating FIAT. It should be the same for creating digital currency.

YOU SIR, Have no idea what you're talking about. You  say The U.S Dollar is only one of a handful of currencies backed by "nothing", infact, the USD is backed by something: the ECONOMY!

Fiat in all nations are backed by things, whether it be gold, the economy, etc.

PoS is backed by literally NOTHING, therefore it won't ever go anywhere.
PoW is still by far the best.

[cbeast]

PoW is PoS with the stake being your mining rigs.

Yes. These are all resource-democratic systems.

That's a strange use of the word. You can also then say they are also resource-republican.

[clout]

PoW is PoS with the stake being your mining rigs.

Yes. These are all resource-democratic systems.

That's a strange use of the word. You can also then say they are also resource-republican.

Yes, given the delegation of hashing power to mining pools who act as representatives in Bitcoinland.

[clout]

And don't forget the main problem about POW and this is the most important one.... every investor or long term buyer has to pay to the miner for securing the blockchain. POS coins investor don't they them self are doing their part to secure it and get even PAID!

No one will be a slave to POW coins once they notice how the game is going on.

Imagine if the US dollar was distributed by proof of stake. 1% of Americans would get all the money!

Furthermore, money is created with work. If a currency isn't backed by work what gives it value? I feel commitment to the creation of wealth should require some financial backing by each of us (mining equipment and power - just like the US mint and their custom ASIC printers).  If you literally have no skin in the game then what is the point?

You have no understanding of what money is... Money is debt, it is not created by "work" (whatever that means). Currencies today are not backed by anything that is why the are referred to as fiat (latin for "it shall be"). The top 1% of Americans posses more than 40% of the nations wealth (all the money).

If you took a physics class you would realize in a closed system such as the planet Earth.....nothing can be created nor destroyed. Energy is just transfer through a process called work. There is a process of work in creating FIAT. It should be the same for creating digital currency.

YOU SIR, Have no idea what you're talking about. You  say The U.S Dollar is only one of a handful of currencies backed by "nothing", infact, the USD is backed by something: the ECONOMY!

Fiat in all nations are backed by things, whether it be gold, the economy, etc.

PoS is backed by literally NOTHING, therefore it won't ever go anywhere.
PoW is still by far the best.

So you think that the us economy can support $17.5 trillion in funded liabilities and $220 trillion in unfunded liabilities? These currencies are not supported by the economy, because the debt is not supported by the economy. And further analysis of the consumption, debt, service sector based economy demonstrates that that economy in and of itself is unsustainable. 

POS is backed by the network. Do you think that these crypto-currency networks have value? Then by that estimation the fractional ownership of these networks reflected by each individuals stake must also have value.

[cbeast]

PoW is PoS with the stake being your mining rigs.

Yes. These are all resource-democratic systems.

That's a strange use of the word. You can also then say they are also resource-republican.

Yes, given the delegation of hashing power to mining pools who act as representatives in Bitcoinland.

You can also say they are resource-socialist because they collectively share the task of consensus transaction verification.

[Spoetnik]

PoW is PoS with the stake being your mining rigs.

Yes. These are all resource-democratic systems.

That's a strange use of the word. You can also then say they are also resource-republican.

agreed lol
guys get weird on this stuff hahah

[darkota]

And don't forget the main problem about POW and this is the most important one.... every investor or long term buyer has to pay to the miner for securing the blockchain. POS coins investor don't they them self are doing their part to secure it and get even PAID!

No one will be a slave to POW coins once they notice how the game is going on.

Imagine if the US dollar was distributed by proof of stake. 1% of Americans would get all the money!

Furthermore, money is created with work. If a currency isn't backed by work what gives it value? I feel commitment to the creation of wealth should require some financial backing by each of us (mining equipment and power - just like the US mint and their custom ASIC printers).  If you literally have no skin in the game then what is the point?

You have no understanding of what money is... Money is debt, it is not created by "work" (whatever that means). Currencies today are not backed by anything that is why the are referred to as fiat (latin for "it shall be"). The top 1% of Americans posses more than 40% of the nations wealth (all the money).

If you took a physics class you would realize in a closed system such as the planet Earth.....nothing can be created nor destroyed. Energy is just transfer through a process called work. There is a process of work in creating FIAT. It should be the same for creating digital currency.

YOU SIR, Have no idea what you're talking about. You  say The U.S Dollar is only one of a handful of currencies backed by "nothing", infact, the USD is backed by something: the ECONOMY!

Fiat in all nations are backed by things, whether it be gold, the economy, etc.

PoS is backed by literally NOTHING, therefore it won't ever go anywhere.
PoW is still by far the best.

So you think that the us economy can support $17.5 trillion in funded liabilities and $220 trillion in unfunded liabilities? These currencies are not supported by the economy, because the debt is not supported by the economy. And further analysis of the consumption, debt, service sector based economy demonstrates that that economy in and of itself is unsustainable. 

POS is backed by the network. Do you think that these crypto-currency networks have value? Then by that estimation the fractional ownership of these networks reflected by each individuals stake must also have value.

Given that you are using the U.S as an example....Well, you can't really use the U.S as an example!!! USD is really created out of Debt, which differs largely from Cryptocurrencies....

Try before 1913, where the U.S relied on Gold.

Or try other countries today, like Saudi Arabia, etc etc, that rely on oil and exports, to back their money.

The Point still remains, that PoS is backed by nothing. And do not tell me that PoS is backed by the network Lmao....that doesn't even make sense.

[clout]

And don't forget the main problem about POW and this is the most important one.... every investor or long term buyer has to pay to the miner for securing the blockchain. POS coins investor don't they them self are doing their part to secure it and get even PAID!

No one will be a slave to POW coins once they notice how the game is going on.

Imagine if the US dollar was distributed by proof of stake. 1% of Americans would get all the money!

Furthermore, money is created with work. If a currency isn't backed by work what gives it value? I feel commitment to the creation of wealth should require some financial backing by each of us (mining equipment and power - just like the US mint and their custom ASIC printers).  If you literally have no skin in the game then what is the point?

You have no understanding of what money is... Money is debt, it is not created by "work" (whatever that means). Currencies today are not backed by anything that is why the are referred to as fiat (latin for "it shall be"). The top 1% of Americans posses more than 40% of the nations wealth (all the money).

If you took a physics class you would realize in a closed system such as the planet Earth.....nothing can be created nor destroyed. Energy is just transfer through a process called work. There is a process of work in creating FIAT. It should be the same for creating digital currency.

YOU SIR, Have no idea what you're talking about. You  say The U.S Dollar is only one of a handful of currencies backed by "nothing", infact, the USD is backed by something: the ECONOMY!

Fiat in all nations are backed by things, whether it be gold, the economy, etc.

PoS is backed by literally NOTHING, therefore it won't ever go anywhere.
PoW is still by far the best.

So you think that the us economy can support $17.5 trillion in funded liabilities and $220 trillion in unfunded liabilities? These currencies are not supported by the economy, because the debt is not supported by the economy. And further analysis of the consumption, debt, service sector based economy demonstrates that that economy in and of itself is unsustainable. 

POS is backed by the network. Do you think that these crypto-currency networks have value? Then by that estimation the fractional ownership of these networks reflected by each individuals stake must also have value.

Given that you are using the U.S as an example....Well, you can't really use the U.S as an example!!! USD is really created out of Debt, which differs largely from Cryptocurrencies....

Try before 1913, where the U.S relied on Gold.

Or try other countries today, like Saudi Arabia, etc etc, that rely on oil and exports, to back their money.

The Point still remains, that PoS is backed by nothing. And do not tell me that PoS is backed by the network Lmao....that doesn't even make sense.

how does that not make sense? All these networks offer different services. Demand creates all value and there is clearly demand for proof of stake crypto currency networks, as exhibited by nxt. Clearly the market thinks you are wrong.

How can you tell me not to use the largest economy in the world as an example. That truly makes no sense.

[darkota]

And don't forget the main problem about POW and this is the most important one.... every investor or long term buyer has to pay to the miner for securing the blockchain. POS coins investor don't they them self are doing their part to secure it and get even PAID!

No one will be a slave to POW coins once they notice how the game is going on.

Imagine if the US dollar was distributed by proof of stake. 1% of Americans would get all the money!

Furthermore, money is created with work. If a currency isn't backed by work what gives it value? I feel commitment to the creation of wealth should require some financial backing by each of us (mining equipment and power - just like the US mint and their custom ASIC printers).  If you literally have no skin in the game then what is the point?

You have no understanding of what money is... Money is debt, it is not created by "work" (whatever that means). Currencies today are not backed by anything that is why the are referred to as fiat (latin for "it shall be"). The top 1% of Americans posses more than 40% of the nations wealth (all the money).

If you took a physics class you would realize in a closed system such as the planet Earth.....nothing can be created nor destroyed. Energy is just transfer through a process called work. There is a process of work in creating FIAT. It should be the same for creating digital currency.

YOU SIR, Have no idea what you're talking about. You  say The U.S Dollar is only one of a handful of currencies backed by "nothing", infact, the USD is backed by something: the ECONOMY!

Fiat in all nations are backed by things, whether it be gold, the economy, etc.

PoS is backed by literally NOTHING, therefore it won't ever go anywhere.
PoW is still by far the best.

So you think that the us economy can support $17.5 trillion in funded liabilities and $220 trillion in unfunded liabilities? These currencies are not supported by the economy, because the debt is not supported by the economy. And further analysis of the consumption, debt, service sector based economy demonstrates that that economy in and of itself is unsustainable. 

POS is backed by the network. Do you think that these crypto-currency networks have value? Then by that estimation the fractional ownership of these networks reflected by each individuals stake must also have value.

Given that you are using the U.S as an example....Well, you can't really use the U.S as an example!!! USD is really created out of Debt, which differs largely from Cryptocurrencies....

Try before 1913, where the U.S relied on Gold.

Or try other countries today, like Saudi Arabia, etc etc, that rely on oil and exports, to back their money.

The Point still remains, that PoS is backed by nothing. And do not tell me that PoS is backed by the network Lmao....that doesn't even make sense.

how does that not make sense? All these networks offer different services. Demand creates all value and there is clearly demand for proof of stake crypto currency networks, as exhibited by nxt. Clearly the market thinks you are wrong.

How can you tell me not to use the largest economy in the world as an example. That truly makes no sense.

How can you tell me not to use the largest economy in the world as an example. That truly makes no sense. Because America's monertary system is the worst example you can use. You must obviously know that money is created out of debt in the usa, and thats why the USD will crash eventually...

That's why I say, use a better example.

Your entire post made no sense.

how does that not make sense? All these networks offer different services. Demand creates all value and there is clearly demand for proof of stake crypto currency networks, as exhibited by nxt. Clearly the market thinks you are wrong.

In case you didnt know, Demand is not the only thing that creates value.."all these networks offer different services" What???

[coinsolidation]

You must obviously know that money is created out of debt in the usa, and thats why the USD will crash eventually...

All fiat is debt. They were originally promissory notes, "to pay the bearer on demand" an amount of gold. The link to gold was removed. They are just worthless IOUs.

[clout]

And don't forget the main problem about POW and this is the most important one.... every investor or long term buyer has to pay to the miner for securing the blockchain. POS coins investor don't they them self are doing their part to secure it and get even PAID!

No one will be a slave to POW coins once they notice how the game is going on.

Imagine if the US dollar was distributed by proof of stake. 1% of Americans would get all the money!

Furthermore, money is created with work. If a currency isn't backed by work what gives it value? I feel commitment to the creation of wealth should require some financial backing by each of us (mining equipment and power - just like the US mint and their custom ASIC printers).  If you literally have no skin in the game then what is the point?

You have no understanding of what money is... Money is debt, it is not created by "work" (whatever that means). Currencies today are not backed by anything that is why the are referred to as fiat (latin for "it shall be"). The top 1% of Americans posses more than 40% of the nations wealth (all the money).

If you took a physics class you would realize in a closed system such as the planet Earth.....nothing can be created nor destroyed. Energy is just transfer through a process called work. There is a process of work in creating FIAT. It should be the same for creating digital currency.

YOU SIR, Have no idea what you're talking about. You  say The U.S Dollar is only one of a handful of currencies backed by "nothing", infact, the USD is backed by something: the ECONOMY!

Fiat in all nations are backed by things, whether it be gold, the economy, etc.

PoS is backed by literally NOTHING, therefore it won't ever go anywhere.
PoW is still by far the best.

So you think that the us economy can support $17.5 trillion in funded liabilities and $220 trillion in unfunded liabilities? These currencies are not supported by the economy, because the debt is not supported by the economy. And further analysis of the consumption, debt, service sector based economy demonstrates that that economy in and of itself is unsustainable. 

POS is backed by the network. Do you think that these crypto-currency networks have value? Then by that estimation the fractional ownership of these networks reflected by each individuals stake must also have value.

Given that you are using the U.S as an example....Well, you can't really use the U.S as an example!!! USD is really created out of Debt, which differs largely from Cryptocurrencies....

Try before 1913, where the U.S relied on Gold.

Or try other countries today, like Saudi Arabia, etc etc, that rely on oil and exports, to back their money.

The Point still remains, that PoS is backed by nothing. And do not tell me that PoS is backed by the network Lmao....that doesn't even make sense.

how does that not make sense? All these networks offer different services. Demand creates all value and there is clearly demand for proof of stake crypto currency networks, as exhibited by nxt. Clearly the market thinks you are wrong.

How can you tell me not to use the largest economy in the world as an example. That truly makes no sense.

How can you tell me not to use the largest economy in the world as an example. That truly makes no sense. Because America's monertary system is the worst example you can use. You must obviously know that money is created out of debt in the usa, and thats why the USD will crash eventually...

Money is debt. In every country... 95% of the worlds money is digits on computer screens recorded as debt. Even before the federal reserve, banks still used fractional reserve banking.

That's why I say, use a better example.

But if the US is not a good example, is south america a better example? Is canada a better example? Is europe a better example? Is japan a better example?

Your entire post made no sense.

I don't see what you are so confused about.

how does that not make sense? All these networks offer different services. Demand creates all value and there is clearly demand for proof of stake crypto currency networks, as exhibited by nxt. Clearly the market thinks you are wrong.

In case you didnt know, Demand is not the only thing that creates value..

Actually I didn't know that. Give me an example of where demand does not create value? All value is subjective...

"all these networks offer different services" What???

Does bitcoin not offer a services as a trustworthy fiduciary? Does Nxt not offer a service as an asset exchange? Does maidsafe not offer a service as a decentralized internet?  

[Brangdon]

And don't forget the main problem about POW and this is the most important one.... every investor or long term buyer has to pay to the miner for securing the blockchain. POS coins investor don't they them self are doing their part to secure it and get even PAID!

I can put bitcoins in cold storage, like a paper wallet, brain wallet, or USB drive, and it costs me nothing to secure it.

Actually, your coins are losing value due to inflation. Bitcoin is currently a highly inflationary currency, with roughly 10% more coins created every year. That means coins you hold lose 10% of their value per year. The value you lose is paid to miners.

The 10% loss of value is obscured by the volatility of Bitcoin, and historically because of increases in demand. That doesn't change the fact that you are paying a lot of money to miners to secure your holdings.

Think about it. Miners spend millions of dollars on mining rigs. Where do you think that money comes from? It's like credit cards were free to use, and paid for by the government printing a few billion extra dollars each year and given them to the credit card companies. Inflation is the most subtle tax.

[cbeast]

And don't forget the main problem about POW and this is the most important one.... every investor or long term buyer has to pay to the miner for securing the blockchain. POS coins investor don't they them self are doing their part to secure it and get even PAID!

I can put bitcoins in cold storage, like a paper wallet, brain wallet, or USB drive, and it costs me nothing to secure it.

Actually, your coins are losing value due to inflation. Bitcoin is currently a highly inflationary currency, with roughly 10% more coins created every year. That means coins you hold lose 10% of their value per year. The value you lose is paid to miners.

The 10% loss of value is obscured by the volatility of Bitcoin, and historically because of increases in demand. That doesn't change the fact that you are paying a lot of money to miners to secure your holdings.

Think about it. Miners spend millions of dollars on mining rigs. Where do you think that money comes from? It's like credit cards were free to use, and paid for by the government printing a few billion extra dollars each year and given them to the credit card companies. Inflation is the most subtle tax.

As long as I am holding, it costs me nothing. The inflation/deflation/fee based cost of mining is the problem of the miners and handled by the difficulty algorithm. Eventually, fee only mining will make the transaction fees of raw bitcoin transactions very high. That's why I partially support PoS for local currencies that are Bitcoin backed.

[ChuckOne]

PoW is PoS with the stake being your mining rigs.

Yes. These are all resource-democratic systems.

Hehe, nicely said but true. The more you have, the more your are able to decide. Definitely correct.

[Brangdon]

I can put bitcoins in cold storage, like a paper wallet, brain wallet, or USB drive, and it costs me nothing to secure it.

Actually, your coins are losing value due to inflation. Bitcoin is currently a highly inflationary currency, with roughly 10% more coins created every year. That means coins you hold lose 10% of their value per year. The value you lose is paid to miners.

The 10% loss of value is obscured by the volatility of Bitcoin, and historically because of increases in demand. That doesn't change the fact that you are paying a lot of money to miners to secure your holdings.

Think about it. Miners spend millions of dollars on mining rigs. Where do you think that money comes from? It's like credit cards were free to use, and paid for by the government printing a few billion extra dollars each year and given them to the credit card companies. Inflation is the most subtle tax.

As long as I am holding, it costs me nothing. The inflation/deflation/fee based cost of mining is the problem of the miners and handled by the difficulty algorithm.

I don't think you understand what inflation is. It's not a "problem" for the miners (they benefit from it, at the expense of everyone else), and it is not affected by the difficulty algorithm.

[cbeast]

I can put bitcoins in cold storage, like a paper wallet, brain wallet, or USB drive, and it costs me nothing to secure it.

Actually, your coins are losing value due to inflation. Bitcoin is currently a highly inflationary currency, with roughly 10% more coins created every year. That means coins you hold lose 10% of their value per year. The value you lose is paid to miners.

The 10% loss of value is obscured by the volatility of Bitcoin, and historically because of increases in demand. That doesn't change the fact that you are paying a lot of money to miners to secure your holdings.

Think about it. Miners spend millions of dollars on mining rigs. Where do you think that money comes from? It's like credit cards were free to use, and paid for by the government printing a few billion extra dollars each year and given them to the credit card companies. Inflation is the most subtle tax.

As long as I am holding, it costs me nothing. The inflation/deflation/fee based cost of mining is the problem of the miners and handled by the difficulty algorithm.

I don't think you understand what inflation is. It's not a "problem" for the miners (they benefit from it, at the expense of everyone else), and it is not affected by the difficulty algorithm.

If the difficulty had remained at one, the rate of inflation would have been nearly infinite and all 21 million bitcoins would have been mined in 2009. Then inflation would have dropped to zero. As it stands, the algorithm maintains the inflation rate on an asymptotic curve relative to hash rate.