Black Arrow Customers - Consumer Complaints Links

[Pentax]

First of all, I really appreciate all these efforts to do something about this.

I have given my info on my 3 BA orders to Bitcz.

I have a couple  questions;
1. Is refusal of delivery necessary for legal standing? (I'm guessing this is a lawyer question).
2. If delivery happens without signature, is that different for the case? If so, what are the recommended actions?

I'm sure Im not the only one who has these questions. I understand the answers may be sensitive and PM material. I understand BA monitors all this, and I understand they have no issues with punishing and tweaking the queue.

They are sitting (yeah they are not plugged in, right) on a batch of X3s until safety issues with PSUs are resolved. I imagine when these ship a sizeable amount of customers who wish to take a legal venue on a late, misrepresented, and to date unsafe product will be facing similar questions.

Hi,

Yes these are mostly questions for the attorney's at this point.

And yes, BA is without question monitoring these conversations, so most of this will have to go to the land of PMs, aside from mass messaging which has been done to this point to try to get people pointed in the general direction of joining the action. 

Even a lot of that will go to private communications here shortly and some things, such as strategy and filing dates etc., may not go out en mass at all.  I know now that will piss some people off, although people have to understand that legal strategy can't be disseminated to the whole list of claimaints without running a huge risk of information leaks. 

I am hoping the attorneys can issue a statement soon that will give people more guidance on what to expect and reassurance that this is not some scam.  I'm looking for the same information, for what that's worth.  I've been in court plenty of times for business reasons, although never as part of a group filing, so I've got a lot of questions also.  As Btcz has been dealing with the lawyers I have not yet had the chance to talk to them directly.

I'll be happy to answer what questions I can if anyone would like to ask via PM, but don't have a whole lot right now, really, not being an attorney myself.  If I were we'd have been in court a loooooooong time ago.  ;-)

Give me a day or so to respond.  Contrary to BA's apparent assumption that I'm an unemployed drunk with too much time on my hands, I've got a real job, which keeps me hopping pretty good.  I'm often logged on much of the day but away from my desk for most of it, and on the weekends I've got a wife and home to tend to like a lot of people, but I will respond with the best information I can offer as soon as I possibly can.

[nosferatujeff]

Thanks Pentax!

[juni0r]

I would suggest all victims to chip in whatever amount you can in this law suite in order to escalate the process and cover associated fees or if someone needs to go Hong Kong to meet Police / Hong Kong Consumer Council if necessary. Ofcourse, this is up to Bticz who is organising the campaign.

[Lexx2k]

I would suggest all victims to chip in whatever amount you can in this law suite in order to escalate the process and cover associated fees or if someone needs to go Hong Kong to meet Police / Hong Kong Consumer Council if necessary. Ofcourse, this is up to Bticz who is organising the campaign.

People don't realize one thing, even if you take everyone and go for refund, if company really spent money on parts they won't be able to refund you and will file bankruptcy instead, that means no one will get anything, not hardware not software if i understand that part with bankruptcy correctly. Or if someone could explain how it works.

[Pentax]

I would suggest all victims to chip in whatever amount you can in this law suite in order to escalate the process and cover associated fees or if someone needs to go Hong Kong to meet Police / Hong Kong Consumer Council if necessary. Ofcourse, this is up to Bticz who is organising the campaign.

People don't realize one thing, even if you take everyone and go for refund, if company really spent money on parts they won't be able to refund you and will file bankruptcy instead, that means no one will get anything, not hardware not software if i understand that part with bankruptcy correctly. Or if someone could explain how it works.

Lexx, everyone knows you're a shill.

Everyone has already lost their ass already.  the minute you broke the price matching promise to your customers these were no longer worth squat- and that's before they started catching on fire. 

I've asked for my money back several times, as have many other people, and the only way to get anything back is to go to court at this point.  You've left us no choice.  It was the actions of Black Arrow and it's refusal to uphold it's obligations that have led to this. 

Beyond that, we've got multiple statements that the money wasn't raised from pre-orders, Chinese law states that the money used on pre-orders has to be kept in a separate account, people can see their BTC sitting in the wallets they were sent to, and Black Arrow is running around sponsoring conferences and developing new chips.  There is money there. 

we'll see you in court.

[klintay]

I would suggest all victims to chip in whatever amount you can in this law suite in order to escalate the process and cover associated fees or if someone needs to go Hong Kong to meet Police / Hong Kong Consumer Council if necessary. Ofcourse, this is up to Bticz who is organising the campaign.

People don't realize one thing, even if you take everyone and go for refund, if company really spent money on parts they won't be able to refund you and will file bankruptcy instead, that means no one will get anything, not hardware not software if i understand that part with bankruptcy correctly. Or if someone could explain how it works.

Lexx, everyone knows you're a shill.

Everyone has already lost their ass already.  the minute you broke the price matching promise to your customers these were no longer worth squat- and that's before they started catching on fire.  

I've asked for my money back several times, as have many other people, and the only way to get anything back is to go to court at this point.  You've left us no choice.  It was the actions of Black Arrow and it's refusal to uphold it's obligations that have led to this.  

Beyond that, we've got multiple statements that the money wasn't raised from pre-orders, Chinese law states that the money used on pre-orders has to be kept in a separate account, people can see their BTC sitting in the wallets they were sent to, and Black Arrow is running around sponsoring conferences and developing new chips.  There is money there.  

we'll see you in court.

good call out!! See your dirty ass in court BA. Looks like this bunch of criminals are scared. They should be...

[terrapinflyer]

Just wanna bump this up to the top its getting down there...

[Waramp22]

People don't realize one thing, even if you take everyone and go for refund, if company really spent money on parts they won't be able to refund you and will file bankruptcy instead, that means no one will get anything, not hardware not software if i understand that part with bankruptcy correctly. Or if someone could explain how it works.

We might have cared about this 5 months ago when it was profitable to mine with them. Since the miners are completely worthless now, all we have left is to go after Black Arrow.

[goozman96]

Just wanna bump this up to the top its getting down there...

Please leave negative feedback for Lexx2k and david.

[greenlion]

I would suggest all victims to chip in whatever amount you can in this law suite in order to escalate the process and cover associated fees or if someone needs to go Hong Kong to meet Police / Hong Kong Consumer Council if necessary. Ofcourse, this is up to Bticz who is organising the campaign.

People don't realize one thing, even if you take everyone and go for refund, if company really spent money on parts they won't be able to refund you and will file bankruptcy instead, that means no one will get anything, not hardware not software if i understand that part with bankruptcy correctly. Or if someone could explain how it works.

Tell your boss / lover / other side of your brain (whichever it is) Alex Sovu that the only way to get out of any of this is to refund all pending orders that he has failed to service.

[DonRavy]

I would suggest all victims to chip in whatever amount you can in this law suite in order to escalate the process and cover associated fees or if someone needs to go Hong Kong to meet Police / Hong Kong Consumer Council if necessary. Ofcourse, this is up to Bticz who is organising the campaign.

People don't realize one thing, even if you take everyone and go for refund, if company really spent money on parts they won't be able to refund you and will file bankruptcy instead, that means no one will get anything, not hardware not software if i understand that part with bankruptcy correctly. Or if someone could explain how it works.

1) The BTC wallet used to recieve preorder fund is still untouched. The "oy vey there's no money" lie is just that - a lie.
2) Even if BA files for bancruptcy, at least then personal liability comes into play, mostly for gross negligence and/or fraudulent intent. So even if we don't get our money back, either the criminals @BA pay up with their private assets, or they go to jail. Win-win.

P.S.: Alex Sovu in a chinese prison - now that's a TV show I'd watch.

[greenlion]

P.S.: Alex Sovu in a chinese prison - now that's a TV show I'd watch.

Sadly I wouldn't be surprised if he's never even been to China, unless he has some good fake papers for this "Alex Berk" alias, because I would imagine it isn't exactly a good idea for someone in his position to be crossing borders all willy-nilly.

[larfingshnew]

I have no legal background so I'm not sure if I can be of much help, but I thought I'd offer.
I'll be in Japan in October and could take a quick trip over to China if it would actually accomplish something.
Meet with the consumer council or talk with the police. whatever.

I have an order with BA from December for 10x X1s, got nothing.
Asked for a refund in June and numerous times since, so far nothing of course.

[bitdik]

Can we just treat this shill as BA treats it's customers in their own thread? ie delete all posts from lexx2k?

I would suggest all victims to chip in whatever amount you can in this law suite in order to escalate the process and cover associated fees or if someone needs to go Hong Kong to meet Police / Hong Kong Consumer Council if necessary. Ofcourse, this is up to Bticz who is organising the campaign.

People don't realize one thing, even if you take everyone and go for refund, if company really spent money on parts they won't be able to refund you and will file bankruptcy instead, that means no one will get anything, not hardware not software if i understand that part with bankruptcy correctly. Or if someone could explain how it works.

[bitdik]

Out of general interest, who has had a response lately from HK police?

[juni0r]

Do we have an option to hire debt collectors in China or Hong Kong to chase down BA. But I am sure we will be able to hire hitmen for BA there LOL

[larfingshnew]

Lol. Not speaking from experience here, but I think hitmen would probably want to take half or more of whatever BA coughed up.

[Malharhak]

Hi,

Just posting a message to say, I am one of the people who pre ordered and didn't receive anything.

I don't know how all of this works, but if people here want to launch legal action or whatever, I am available to help if there is a way (signing stuff, sending testimony, or I can also help a bit with fees).

I think if everyone agrees to place a grouped complaint or something, by grouping money for attorneys and other stuff this is doable. No?

[tempestb]

Hi,

Just posting a message to say, I am one of the people who pre ordered and didn't receive anything.

I don't know how all of this works, but if people here want to launch legal action or whatever, I am available to help if there is a way (signing stuff, sending testimony, or I can also help a bit with fees).

I think if everyone agrees to place a grouped complaint or something, by grouping money for attorneys and other stuff this is doable. No?

That information is contained in this thread.  Spend five minutes reading through it and you'll know where to send your information to join the group lawsuit.  It's been quoted and reposted numerous times.

[juni0r]

Good News everyone

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ftc-shuts-down-butterfly-labs-finally/