Sonny Vleisides (Butterfly Labs CEO) 2014 Court Transcript [The TL/DR version]

[LostDutchman]

I AM SORRY WE'VE DECEIDED YOU ARE NO LONGER ECONOMICALLY VIABLE TO US AT BFL,  GOOD BYE FOREVER YOU ARE NOW SHUNNED FOR LIFE!

They banned me for life from the forum for trying to get a refund... (notice no reason is given for banning me for life from the forums)



Everyone please repost this...

BFL = http://www.butterflylabs.com
BFL FORUM = https://forums.butterflylabs.com

Fuel to the fire, my friend, fuel to the fire!

[colinistheman]

Nice summary, It'd only be better if you added the Line #'s attached to the sentence so we can go and look it up and verify

Just select a partial sentence or unique couple of words and do a search on the document. You will find it easily.

[Fiyasko]

Nice summary, It'd only be better if you added the Line #'s attached to the sentence so we can go and look it up and verify

Just select a partial sentence or unique couple of words and do a search on the document. You will find it easily.

It's what I did. Very good work

[colinistheman]

Nice summary, It'd only be better if you added the Line #'s attached to the sentence so we can go and look it up and verify

Just select a partial sentence or unique couple of words and do a search on the document. You will find it easily.

It's what I did. Very good work

Thanks. Yeah it's all 100% from the document

[Hyena]

Thanks for the topic. I had no idea such things are taking place and I feel somewhat pleased with the fact that repressed customers can strike back.

[colinistheman]

Thanks for the topic. I had no idea such things are taking place and I feel somewhat pleased with the fact that repressed customers can strike back.

You're welcome. I just hope that these things actually accomplish something. (like BFL forced to refund everyone, or justice being served)

[Chronikka]

Thanks for the topic. I had no idea such things are taking place and I feel somewhat pleased with the fact that repressed customers can strike back.

You're welcome. I just hope that these things actually accomplish something. (like BFL forced to refund everyone, or justice being served)

Unfortunately, BFL has quietly managed to get themselves into the background again. ASIC companies are everywhere now, and for most people BFL is just an ugly chapter in the history of Bitcoin, nothing more.

I think anger/outrage/frustration towards BFL is decreasing simply because their customer base is decreasing. Without a renewal of fresh complaints they will probably get away with it all. If they couldn't find enough to put Sonny back in jail today, they probably won't ever.

[LostDutchman]

Caught this on another thread:

http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/14/bitcoin-mining-company-buys-critical-site-to-improve-google-results/

Seems it's OK for Sonny and BFL to engage in a bit of SEO here and there but not OK to engage in SEO to fight them.

Interesting thinking, eh?

[colinistheman]

Caught this on another thread:

http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/14/bitcoin-mining-company-buys-critical-site-to-improve-google-results/

Seems it's OK for Sonny and BFL to engage in a bit of SEO here and there but not OK to engage in SEO to fight them.

Interesting thinking, eh?

LMAO! That is the first I've heard of that... Hilarious and horrible at the same time.

How low can BFL's ethics stoop?  If you can't win fair, then just buy out the opposition (with customer funds of course)!

[LostDutchman]

Caught this on another thread:

http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/14/bitcoin-mining-company-buys-critical-site-to-improve-google-results/

Seems it's OK for Sonny and BFL to engage in a bit of SEO here and there but not OK to engage in SEO to fight them.

Interesting thinking, eh?

LMAO! That is the first I've heard of that... Hilarious and horrible at the same time.

How low can BFL's ethics stoop?  If you can't win fair, then just buy out the opposition (with customer funds of course)!

I have a solution but few will listen.

[colinistheman]

I have a solution but few will listen.

Few will pay for it. They have already paid and lost dearly.

You need a solution that doesn't involve asking people for money.

[LostDutchman]

I have a solution but few will listen.

Few will pay for it. They have already paid and lost dearly.

You need a solution that doesn't involve asking people for money.

Lemmee see here................................

...a few grand properly spent saves millions?

Yep.

Not a good plan at all.

I'll rethink it but thank you for your input.

[colinistheman]

I have a solution but few will listen.

Few will pay for it. They have already paid and lost dearly.

You need a solution that doesn't involve asking people for money.

Lemmee see here................................

...a few grand properly spent saves millions?

Yep.

Not a good plan at all.

I'll rethink it but thank you for your input.

Your sarcasm is unnecessary

The plan in theory is a good one but nobody is going to give you money. So it's not going to happen in actuality.

Feel free to prove me wrong and I'll eat my words.

[ibminer]

I have a solution but few will listen.

Few will pay for it. They have already paid and lost dearly.

You need a solution that doesn't involve asking people for money.

Lemmee see here................................

...a few grand properly spent saves millions?

Yep.

Not a good plan at all.

I'll rethink it but thank you for your input.

Your sarcasm is unnecessary

The plan in theory is a good one but nobody is going to give you money. So it's not going to happen in actuality.

Feel free to prove me wrong and I'll eat my words.

Not entirely sure what plan you are both talking about and don't have an opinion either way, BUT I can say that if people are stupid enough to still be giving BFL money for pre-orders then they are stupid enough to give money to anyone for anything. 

[colinistheman]

Not entirely sure what plan you are both talking about and don't have an opinion either way, BUT I can say that if people are stupid enough to still be giving BFL money for pre-orders then they are stupid enough to give money to anyone for anything.  

LostDutchman is referring to a website & idea for getting back at BFL that he created: http://www.WeDemandJusticeFromBFL.com

[ProfMac]

I have a solution but few will listen.

Few will pay for it. They have already paid and lost dearly.

You need a solution that doesn't involve asking people for money.

Lemmee see here................................

...a few grand properly spent saves millions?

Yep.

Not a good plan at all.

I'll rethink it but thank you for your input.

I did go read the your web page.  I think that the plan disturbs uninvolved people, and is partially untruthful;  this will sure spray you with backspatter, and ultimately harm the moral high ground position that they occupy.

However, the ultimate concept of causing a bolus of communications from the large number of customers involved intrigues me, and is an approach that I have envisioned many times in the past, but have never carried out.

What do you think of this course of action, where no one crosses over a line misrepresenting their identity or denying service to innocent bystanders:  each BFL customer, perhaps 20,000 or more, sends a small number of paper letters, for a total cost of under $5.

• Directly to the court
  
• To the attorney representing the plaintiff
  
• To BFL itself.
  
• Sonny's parole office
  
• BFL's attorney
  

I think this could be one letter to BFL with CC to the other parties.

I further think the letter should be very polite.  It should mention facts and ask for an action.  Each letter should be written so that it reflects well on you under the most hostile reading environment, whether in court, on TV, or in the BFL boardroom.  There should be absolutely no threats, exaggerations, or excesses in the letter.  The letter should be minimal.  It is the 20,000 quantity all from upstanding victims that is the excess, but that excess does not reflect back on any of the customers.  Each piece of that mail is sent to people who are involved in this particular piece of business, are not innocent bystanders, and is a proper use of a paid government service, the USPS.

You want the court and probation people to think that you are squeaky clean, and never, ever to get the idea that any one of you is a problem of any kind.  While my background story here is not that important, I can say that I have been a victim/witness in a murder trial, and that I got much better service from the prosecutors that did the people who acted like they would bring guns into the courtroom and, although victims, become criminals themself.   Avoid any suggestion of vigilantism.

Specimen:

Code:

Dear BFL

I have an order for 3 @ Monarch bitcoin miners placed on Feb. 18, 2013 for $5,650.  Prompt delivery time was 
a dominant portion of the value of this order, and the order is now unfit for the purposes for which we initiated 
business with each other.

I have been harmed by this delay, and I am disturbed to read court documents, for example, that Sonny has 
purchased a house with order payments before my order was fulfilled.

At this time, I require a prompt refund of my order.

Sincerely,

John Q Customer

[LostDutchman]

I have a solution but few will listen.

Few will pay for it. They have already paid and lost dearly.

You need a solution that doesn't involve asking people for money.

Lemmee see here................................

...a few grand properly spent saves millions?

Yep.

Not a good plan at all.

I'll rethink it but thank you for your input.

I did go read the your web page.  I think that the plan disturbs uninvolved people, and is partially untruthful;  this will sure spray you with backspatter, and ultimately harm the moral high ground position that they occupy.

However, the ultimate concept of causing a bolus of communications from the large number of customers involved intrigues me, and is an approach that I have envisioned many times in the past, but have never carried out.

What do you think of this course of action, where no one crosses over a line misrepresenting their identity or denying service to innocent bystanders:  each BFL customer, perhaps 20,000 or more, sends a small number of paper letters, for a total cost of under $5.

• Directly to the court
  
• To the attorney representing the plaintiff
  
• To BFL itself.
  
• Sonny's parole office
  
• BFL's attorney
  

I think this could be one letter to BFL with CC to the other parties.

I further think the letter should be very polite.  It should mention facts and ask for an action.  Each letter should be written so that it reflects well on you under the most hostile reading environment, whether in court, on TV, or in the BFL boardroom.  There should be absolutely no threats, exaggerations, or excesses in the letter.  The letter should be minimal.  It is the 20,000 quantity all from upstanding victims that is the excess, but that excess does not reflect back on any of the customers.  Each piece of that mail is sent to people who are involved in this particular piece of business, are not innocent bystanders, and is a proper use of a paid government service, the USPS.

You want the court and probation people to think that you are squeaky clean, and never, ever to get the idea that any one of you is a problem of any kind.  While my background story here is not that important, I can say that I have been a victim/witness in a murder trial, and that I got much better service from the prosecutors that did the people who acted like they would bring guns into the courtroom and, although victims, become criminals themself.   Avoid any suggestion of vigilantism.

Specimen:

Code:

Dear BFL

I have an order for 3 @ Monarch bitcoin miners placed on Feb. 18, 2013 for $5,650.  Prompt delivery time was 
a dominant portion of the value of this order, and the order is now unfit for the purposes for which we initiated 
business with each other.

I have been harmed by this delay, and I am disturbed to read court documents, for example, that Sonny has 
purchased a house with order payments before my order was fulfilled.

At this time, I require a prompt refund of my order.

Sincerely,

John Q Customer

"I did go read the your web page.  I think that the plan disturbs uninvolved people, and is partially untruthful;  this will sure spray you with backspatter, and ultimately harm the moral high ground position that they occupy."

PARIIALLY UNTRUTHFUL?

YOU CALLING ME A LIAR?

PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

I AM NOT IN THE MOOD!

No one gonna "backspatter" me 'cause they can't prove I'm doing it and eve if the did, what the fuck do you care?

You ain't my Daddy!

What a nice fuckin letter.

Translation:

"Dear BFL,

I know you one of the biggest scumbags on the planet and ripping people off all over the world on a daily baiss but would you please take pity on me and send my money back?

On bended knee.

Fucked Customer."

[colinistheman]

Specimen:

Code:

Dear BFL

I have an order for 3 @ Monarch bitcoin miners placed on Feb. 18, 2013 for $5,650.  Prompt delivery time was 
a dominant portion of the value of this order, and the order is now unfit for the purposes for which we initiated 
business with each other.

I have been harmed by this delay, and I am disturbed to read court documents, for example, that Sonny has 
purchased a house with order payments before my order was fulfilled.

At this time, I require a prompt refund of my order.

Sincerely,

John Q Customer

LostDutchman, I understand your frustration with the situation (as I am in it myself with BFL with about $5k at stake), but I too have learned is that acting out your emotions, even if justified, does not serve to help you. It just makes people think you are unstable or a criminal yourself. It doesn't matter whether they can find you or not. They will ignore you if you sound arrogant or hostile because you sound just as bad as the accused.

ProfMac has the right idea here. Very intelligent approach to the situation.

I propose a solution of mixing ProfMac's solution with your website. We should promote ON your website the address of these 5 different avenues of mailing letters. BFL customers can go there to get the information (including a sample letter like ProfMac has supplied), and the addreses to mail to.

I agree 100% it is very important to take all name calling and vigilantism out of the equation. Not because it is the wrong mentality, but because it will get your efforts ignored. You can't fight fire with fire.

What do you think, LostDutchman?

This is something that people will do because it doesn't cost them anything more than stamps. It is a realistic approach that could very well achieve some results.  Assuming you weren't trying to profit from your previous solution, then you should be up for this idea.

ProfMac, the next step would be acquiring the physical mailing addresses of the individuals/groups you mentioned:

• Directly to the court
• To the attorney representing the plaintiff
• To BFL itself.
• Sonny's parole office
• BFL's attorney

Imagine the Judge of that court trial getting a copy of all our hundreds of letters stating how we have been treated. Sonny will likely get jail time.

[ProfMac]

PARIIALLY UNTRUTHFUL?

YOU CALLING ME A LIAR?

PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

I AM NOT IN THE MOOD!

Yes, I am.  You are going to try to make it appear that BFL is doing something that they are not by using an overseas posting shop, according to your web page, and you mention the risk of getting caught.  It is fraudulent.

You are getting down in the mud with them.  I think it will hurt your chances. 

It will give the BFL people the opportunity to say that they aren't really that bad, that they are victims of a smear campaign.  It is a step backwards that gives them an advantage.

I know you're angry.  I think you should use your anger to energize your planning against BFL.  I think you are letting your anger muddy your mind, and diminish your chance for success.

[LostDutchman]

Specimen:

Code:

Dear BFL

I have an order for 3 @ Monarch bitcoin miners placed on Feb. 18, 2013 for $5,650.  Prompt delivery time was 
a dominant portion of the value of this order, and the order is now unfit for the purposes for which we initiated 
business with each other.

I have been harmed by this delay, and I am disturbed to read court documents, for example, that Sonny has 
purchased a house with order payments before my order was fulfilled.

At this time, I require a prompt refund of my order.

Sincerely,

John Q Customer

ProfMac has the right idea here. Very intelligent approach to the situation.

LostDutchman, I understand your frustration with the situation (as I am in it myself with BFL), but the thing I too have learned is that acting out your emotions, even if justified, does not serve to help you. It just makes people think you are unstable or a criminal yourself. It doesn't matter whether they can find you or not. They will ignore you if you sound arrogant or hostile because you sound just as bad as the accused.

I propose a solution of mixing ProfMac's solution with your website. We should promote ON your website the address of these 5 different avenues of mailing letters. BFL customers can go there to get the information (including a sample letter like ProfMac has supplied), and the addreses to mail to.

I agree 100% it is very important to take all name calling and vigilantism out of the equation. Not because it is the wrong mentality, but because it will get your efforts ignored. You can't fight fire with fire.

What do you think, LostDutchman?

You don't understand.

There is no emotion involved on my end at all.

This ain't personal; this is business.

It is obvious to me that Bitcoiners are perfectly OK with allowing BFL continuaing its financial rampage and rape of the internet and therefore so be it.

You can fight fire with fire; it's done all the time but evidently not in the Bitcoin world.

Ever heard of a backburn?

Standard forest fire fighting technique.

You know how that letter reads to me?

Like this:

(Voce Truman Capote)

"Dear Mr, Bfl, DEAR Mr. BFL.

I have written you several times requsting that you send back my money and I have not received a reply or a refund.

I know you must have been so very busy and may have just overlooked my request, so with apologies I ask you again to please send me back my money. (I don't want to hurt your feelings and we can still be freinds!)

Alas, if you don't send me back my money I have to talk to my attorney who is a really terrible man who will write you a horrible demand letter and I hate to have him do that because it will hurt your feelings and might put you off your lunch.

I don't want to do these things because you are such nice people and I do so want to remain freinds, so could you just return my money and I won't even tell anyone because I don't want to hurt your reputation in any way.

Pleaase have a nice day and when you get around to it plese send me back my money, mkay?

Thank you and hoping our freindship lasts through all eternity.

Signed:

Fucked BFL Customer."