I was hacked (1170btc stolen) - 500btc max BOUNTY

[hardhouseinc]

I got in my watch up a scare attempt, a user I don't know with a V mask sent this:

Hey andro
How u doing?

his number is xxxxxx

EDIT: Maybe I know him, I will investigate some more in case it was a false alarm

False alarm.

Rocket was wrong unfortunately, GoDaddy is irrelevant.

We have some other clues though, the hunt will continue. I have my machines to be analysed by forensic experts, I formatted iMac but TimeMachines have everything!

I gather more people who have lost money like this so we will coordinate our efforts..

klee, is there any clear evidence how the hack was done?

Not yet - biggest chance are either from FB or dropbox.

Tonight I will be not available here, tomorrow I will try to write a thorough report on what happened etc

Ive said this before and this is more evidence to me that people working for DropBox are
accessing cloud files looking for wallet files or text files with BTC related information.
I had a wallet emptied in the past and the ONLY place that existed another copy of that wallet
beside my PC that had been offline for over a week at the time it happened, was on DropBox.
I had forgotten that I made a copy of the wallet unencrypted on DropBox and forgot to move it to my
encrypted TrueCrypt container there.
That was the ONLY place on earth that it existed and I HAD changed my DB password after heartbleed.
I have almost every file on DropBox now in an encrypted TrueCrypt container now.

Im honestly VERY sorry for your loss KLEE.  I wish you luck with recovery of your BTC!!!!

[1715086289]

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[1715086289]

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[The Avenger]

Here we go again. WHERE DID I SAY THEY MUST RETAIN RECORDS??? Please point it out.

I get the feeling one person must use multiple accounts in this thread, but the amount of times someone puts words I didn't say into my mouth in this thread is unbelieable.

So you are only interested in having some uninterested third party make an executive decision to confiscate bitcoins from people and send them to others, based on their best judgment?

Yeah, I think there are potential legal problems with a mixer stealing coins whenever they want, and answering to nobody.

You apparently don't understand how bitcoin works, if you think that removing tainted coins from circulation accomplishes anything.

I didn't say that.

Oh? So what happens when the mixer determines that the coins may have been stolen?

Got stolen coins? Don't send them to an "honest" mixing service.
Need to quickly hide/dispose/make disappear a large sums of bitcoin after only 2 confirmations. Don't send them to an "honest" mixing service.

Got nothing to hide? Send them to an "honest" mixing service.

[poeEDgar]

"Got nothing to hide? You've got nothing to worry about from the government/police."

[Magicman420]

How do I upgrade my memberships?

[The Avenger]

How do I upgrade my memberships?

Send 1000BTC to poeEDgar You'll never have any money problems again 

[poeEDgar]

Go start a crusade against mixers. You can't simultaneously condone mixing services (that by definition must not retain customer records or else be rendered useless) while supporting legal pressure against a mixer in a specific instance.

It's irrelevant as "mixing" service have not been tested under the law as no one cares about cryptos outside of small community. I am pretty sure  if if the govts really take a note, all such services would face full force of money laundry laws

That's neither here nor there. We are all well aware that money laundering is illegal. The question is, what do you support?

[batmanbad]

so did the poor guy get his btc back?

damn it must really suck..

[poeEDgar]

The Avenger, as I see it, and as I've stated it, your "honest mixer" scenario is actually impossible to implement.

[The Avenger]

The Avenger, as I see it, and as I've stated it, your "honest mixer" scenario is actually impossible to implement.

Well that's fine, as you also couldn't see the difference between what I wrote and what you imagined I wrote  

I'm just discussing an idea here, I haven't worked out all the answers and you keep asking for them.

But it seems it would not be that hard to make a mixing service that was truly about privacy and not money laundering.

What criminal would send stolen bitcoin to a service that would take those coins out of their hands entirely for 7 days? I would say none but fools.

The details could be worked out.

But it's good to see you are the kind of guy who likes to take a shit on an idea before you actually know what the idea is. You must be fun to hang out with.

[poeEDgar]

Interesting. It seems your arguments all boil down to "other people putting words in your mouth." And yet, you haven't responded to any of the points made.

For example,

So you are only interested in having some uninterested third party make an executive decision to confiscate bitcoins from people and send them to others, based on their best judgment?

Yeah, I think there are potential legal problems with a mixer stealing coins whenever they want, and answering to nobody.

You apparently don't understand how bitcoin works, if you think that removing tainted coins from circulation accomplishes anything.

I didn't say that.

Oh? So what happens when the mixer determines that the coins may have been stolen?

Let's say the stolen coins originated at some point at an address I control. I sent them as payment for services rendered. They are then stolen from that recipient. What stops me from signing a transaction from my address, proving control, and laying claim to the coins, if the recipient reports that his coins were stolen?

Proving you control an address in the transaction tree means nothing. Hell, the coins could have been stolen FROM ME originally, but I could lay no claim until the coins were sent to the mixer. So the default owner is the person who controlled the LAST address holding the coins? Such a fail.

[Benjig]

A mixer like that will not be succesful, and if you want all the regulation to come here you are a bit early avenger, currently the goverment only investigates bitcoin related to drugs and terrorism , no robberys, we are still a hippie community with internet monopoly money.

[The Avenger]

And yet, you haven't responded to any of the points made.

Maybe if I post it twice, you'll read it? Highlighted in bold for emphasis

I'm just discussing an idea here, I haven't worked out all the answers and you keep asking for them.

But it seems it would not be that hard to make a mixing service that was truly about privacy and not money laundering.

What criminal would send stolen bitcoin to a service that would take those coins out of their hands entirely for 7 days? I would say none but fools.

The details could be worked out.

But it's good to see you are the kind of guy who likes to take a shit on an idea before you actually know what the idea is. You must be fun to hang out with.

[The Avenger]

A mixer like that will not be succesful, and if you want all the regulation to come here you are a bit early avenger, currently the goverment only investigates bitcoin related to drugs and terrorism , no robberys, we are still a hippie community with internet monopoly money.

You mean successful as in profitable?

Success might be governments saying "Well, they have these honest mixer things, which makes sure no stolen bitcoin is laundered. Nothing for us to see here, let's go after those wall street banksters instead".

[The Avenger]

Anyway, this is all getting off topic. I return this thread to the pro-money laundering lobby. And maybe even to klee's situation with stolen bitcoin?

[Benjig]

A mixer like that will not be succesful, and if you want all the regulation to come here you are a bit early avenger, currently the goverment only investigates bitcoin related to drugs and terrorism , no robberys, we are still a hippie community with internet monopoly money.

You mean successful as in profitable?

Success might be governments saying "Well, they have these honest mixer things, which makes sure no stolen bitcoin is laundered. Nothing for us to see here, let's go after those wall street banksters instead".

Yeah profitable because no one will use it, they would have  a 7 days good people money backup to run away at any moment, maybe in the future it can happen.

[BurtW]

A mixer like that will not be succesful, and if you want all the regulation to come here you are a bit early avenger, currently the goverment only investigates bitcoin related to drugs and terrorism , no robberys, we are still a hippie community with internet monopoly money.

You mean successful as in profitable?

Success might be governments saying "Well, they have these honest mixer things, which makes sure no stolen bitcoin is laundered. Nothing for us to see here, let's go after those wall street banksters instead".

Now that is funny.  Thanks for the laugh.

[BurtW]

Fungibility of bitcoins, or of dollar bills, may be a desire of their users, but it is not a legal right nor a mathematical consequence of the protocol's design.

I agree with this one point and it is a problem with the design of Bitcoin.  It should be fixed and it is one hard fork I would fully support.  It should be a mathematical consequence of the design.  Evidently this was discussed in the very early days by Satoshi himself but was tabled.  If this were the case then there would be no external mixers to worry about as there would be no need.  People would not expect to be able to track bad guys, their enemies, coworkers, family, business competitor, etc. using the "serial numbers" on their money.

This would also stop all the black/red/white/purple coin lister crowd dead in their tracks.

[Benjig]

Fungibility of bitcoins, or of dollar bills, may be a desire of their users, but it is not a legal right nor a mathematical consequence of the protocol's design.

I agree with this one point and it is a problem with the design of Bitcoin.  It should be fixed and it is one hard fork I would fully support.  It should be a mathematical consequence of the design.  Evidently this was discussed in the very early days by Satoshi himself but was tabled.  If this were the case then there would be no external mixers to worry about as there would be no need.  People would not expect to be able to track bad guys, their enemies, coworkers, family, business competitor, etc. using the "serial numbers" on their money.

This would also stop all the black/red/white/purple coin lister crowd dead in their tracks.

Yea i would support that too, i wonder why satoshi dint implement it, because i dont want to use darkcoin or another shity coin

[worldtreasurefinders]

The mixer has done nothing wrong.  The mixer is not obligated to keep customer records.  The mixer simply makes change.

This is fucking awful argument, I can't believe you and CEG5952 are still trying to convince everyone blatant money laundering is a-okay.


Please go to your local police department and tell them you accepted $750,000 in stolen cash, in marked bank notes and exchanged them for $746,000 in unmarked notes.

Tell them you knowingly partook in this money laundering operation to disguise the proceeds of crime so that it could not be traced back to the original theft.

Tell them you have done nothing wrong and have kept no records. Tell them you were just giving the thief change for a $750,000 note.

And when you get out of prison in 10 or 15 years, please tell us what it was like.

"Laundering" money is not a crime. Stealing money is a crime. Let's not lose focus on who the actual criminals are in this case.

[BurtW]

The mixer has done nothing wrong.  The mixer is not obligated to keep customer records.  The mixer simply makes change.

This is fucking awful argument, I can't believe you and CEG5952 are still trying to convince everyone blatant money laundering is a-okay.


Please go to your local police department and tell them you accepted $750,000 in stolen cash, in marked bank notes and exchanged them for $746,000 in unmarked notes.

Tell them you knowingly partook in this money laundering operation to disguise the proceeds of crime so that it could not be traced back to the original theft.

Tell them you have done nothing wrong and have kept no records. Tell them you were just giving the thief change for a $750,000 note.

And when you get out of prison in 10 or 15 years, please tell us what it was like.

"Laundering" money is not a crime. Stealing money is a crime. Let's not lose focus on who the actual criminals are in this case.

I disagree.  Money Laundering is a crime and should be a crime.  I just do not agree with the notion that Bitcoin mixing is money laundering.  To me it is the moral equivalent of making change.  Now some have said that well maybe making change for $100 is morally OK but making change for $100,000 is not.  That is arbitrary.  Where exactly does making change become money laundering?  I am sure the government has an answer.  That does not make it right.  Arbitrary laws are just that.