Could we invalidate all regulations?

[Yakamoto]

I was thinking for a while, and realised that most government regulations are imposed when a person exchanges BTC -> fiat. I'm sure you all know this.

If we convinced local grocery stores to accept BTC, wouldn't that mean we could very well live in a society where we don't need to exchange to fiat?

If you can buy the necessities of life with Bitcoin, then why would you need fiat? There's websites that sell anything you can think of for Bitcoin.

Just food for though, I'd like to see what everyone's opinion is.

And sorry if this has been discussed many times before, I'm just curious.

DISCUSS!

[pedrog]

That's the ultimate goal with bitcoin, using it, even for paying taxes.

[ajareselde]

I was thinking for a while, and realised that most government regulations are imposed when a person exchanges BTC -> fiat. I'm sure you all know this.

If we convinced local grocery stores to accept BTC, wouldn't that mean we could very well live in a society where we don't need to exchange to fiat?

If you can buy the necessities of life with Bitcoin, then why would you need fiat? There's websites that sell anything you can think of for Bitcoin.

Just food for though, I'd like to see what everyone's opinion is.

And sorry if this has been discussed many times before, I'm just curious.

DISCUSS!

Yes, i see your point. But note one thing, most of the transactions , if not all, associated with merchants who accept btc use service like bitpay, which instantly converts btc to fiat.
One could do as u say if we remove the conversion from purchases, but its highly unlikely that anyone would want to gamble their sales profit on bitcoin price.

Idealy, the system would work, but in real life, it wouldnt stand a chance im afraid.

[franky1]

Yes, i see your point. But note one thing, most of the transactions , if not all, associated with merchants who accept btc use service like bitpay, which instantly converts btc to fiat.
One could do as u say if we remove the conversion from purchases, but its highly unlikely that anyone would want to gamble their sales profit on bitcoin price.

Idealy, the system would work, but in real life, it wouldnt stand a chance im afraid.

in the utopian world where the suppliers of grocery stores also accepted BTC and all staff accepted BTC as wages.. and the store sold everything in BTC then yea, theory is that we can live without fiat.

but right now we are 0.02% there... baby steps.

and to those trying to get merchants onboard, find out their suppliers and get their suppliers onboard. otherwise bitcoin is just a gimmick to make bitpay rich. we need to make merchants self reliant. not requiring bitpay

[commandrix]

This may come off as a noob question, but wouldn't there be a way to set up Bitcoin payments for brick-and-mortar retailers without requiring something like Bitpay?

And good point about suppliers. I might float the idea of accepting Bitcoin with a couple of wholesale companies I know about.

[Sword Smith]

This may come off as a noob question, but wouldn't there be a way to set up Bitcoin payments for brick-and-mortar retailers without requiring something like Bitpay?

Sure. You can use a static address for this, like Mycelium wallet for Android, or you can use wallet software that generates new addresses for each transaction, like breadwallet for iPhone. BitPay, coinbase, and BIPS and superfluous in theory if the merchant does not need to convert back into fiat. The only problem is that these wallets are slightly more advanced to operate than the merchant solutions I have seen from some of these companies.

[franky1]

once you start getting away from the reliance of FIAT you can start getting bak to the proper law.. common law. and not need all the contractual policies that governments use.. dang it im starting to sound like them "freemen".. honestly im not, but i do like to get law back to the basics of theft and injury instead of the 'nanny' state rules

[theecoinomist]

This may come off as a noob question, but wouldn't there be a way to set up Bitcoin payments for brick-and-mortar retailers without requiring something like Bitpay?

And good point about suppliers. I might float the idea of accepting Bitcoin with a couple of wholesale companies I know about.

Blockchain.com

[franky1]

This may come off as a noob question, but wouldn't there be a way to set up Bitcoin payments for brick-and-mortar retailers without requiring something like Bitpay?

And good point about suppliers. I might float the idea of accepting Bitcoin with a couple of wholesale companies I know about.

become your own exchanger in your town. i done it, and hre is the simplist way.

i gave a local merchant (aswell as a contract) £200 upfront as a kind of bar tab. i also set his phone up that checked my website for MY price valuation. so that as people spent bitcoins with him (which i received) the bartab would decrease for the value of the goods the merchant sold. i would then simply hand him a new lump of money for a fresh bartab as it got low.

that way i was pre-paying him for coins he had not yet received. and he was getting true £200 for £200 of goods (the commission for me was small but cam off the customers side, which due to bitcoin volatility, the customer handing over bitcoin did not even notice the couple percent difference and were also happy to be using bitcoin) so win win win for all involved

the merchant loved it, no risk and no complications, he didnt even need to show me receipts or anything. as long as i seen what i valued to be £200 of bitcoins in my wallet i was happy. and because he already had the £200 prepaid, he was happy. and it both saved us time not having to deal with bank transfers each day or auditing each other. (ofcourse a contract helped with me trusting him.. but then again he owned a business in my town so he cant really run off)

[sidgrip]

The best way to invalidate regulations with anything would first be to educate the people on jury nullification, it is a way that "We the People" can tell our elected servants that we will not comply with there drivel.

[Malin Keshar]

If this gets even close, the gov will start to seize the bitcoins nodes and punish whoever is found using or holding bitcoin, like its doin with drugs.. They won't give up power without fight.

[Robert Paulson]

If this gets even close, the gov will start to seize the bitcoins nodes and punish whoever is found using or holding bitcoin, like its doin with drugs.. They won't give up power without fight.

freedom never comes for free.

[Malin Keshar]

If this gets even close, the gov will start to seize the bitcoins nodes and punish whoever is found using or holding bitcoin, like its doin with drugs.. They won't give up power without fight.

freedom never comes for free.

but some people really understimate the costs.

[LostDutchman]

That's the ultimate goal with bitcoin, using it, even for paying taxes.

Well, it was, anyway until all the "Let's REGULATE Bitcoin" peole broke out of their cages.

[keithers]

At the end of the day, the sole reason for regulation on BTC is tax revenues.   The gov't wants its piece of the pie from exchanges who facilitate trading, from the individuals who are selling...basically anywhere they can squeeze extra money.

Ultimately they could care less if a grown adult loses all their money, just as long as they get their cut first.

[AttorneyBitcoin]

Regulation in many areas of public and private life are essential because we as humans are unable to succeed in agreeing what is best. Therefore we band together and decide as collectives what is best for most. Regulations on food, pollution, building standards, you name it. Common currencies need regulations as well and even though BTC is not determined to be a common fiat currency by our government that does not mean that it should not be regulated. Personal property is regulated, stocks, housing, firearms, exotic pets, etc.

I am proud to participate in my society and be a part of the collective and pay my fair share to support reasonable, just and needed regulations in our lives. To support schools, roads, military, government, and all of the things that go into a  healthy and functioning society.

Yes, BTC and alt coins will eventually be more regulated. And? That is reasonable and necessary. It is not happening quickly, there is no panic, but we are not a utopian society, yet.

George D. Greenberg, Esq.

www.attorneybitcoin.com

[TheButterZone]

"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question." --Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural, 1801. ME 3:320

And it has been answered unequivocally; we've had the exact opposite of angels and countless innocents have been killed by and due to governments, even in the U.S.

[centralbanksequalsbombs]

"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question." --Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural, 1801. ME 3:320

And it has been answered unequivocally; we've had the exact opposite of angels and countless innocents have been killed by and due to governments, even in the U.S.

More people should read this. Great wisdom.

[jseverson]

I was thinking for a while, and realised that most government regulations are imposed when a person exchanges BTC -> fiat. I'm sure you all know this.

If we convinced local grocery stores to accept BTC, wouldn't that mean we could very well live in a society where we don't need to exchange to fiat?

If you can buy the necessities of life with Bitcoin, then why would you need fiat? There's websites that sell anything you can think of for Bitcoin.

Just food for though, I'd like to see what everyone's opinion is.

And sorry if this has been discussed many times before, I'm just curious.

DISCUSS!

Yeah, I've actually been thinking about this a while back. They can't realistically tax every single transaction, so they would have to go after exchanges. In the current state of things, you have to go to exchanges because very few merchants currently accept Bitcoins. If everyone starts to accept Bitcoins, then it's true we won't have to go to exchanges and we can evade the regulations applied there.

However, these stores have to be registered to the government, so some regulations apply to them as well. They would have to, and are expected to pay taxes, so they might just include that in the Bitcoin price for remittal. That's what they do with fiat currently right?

[iram1011]

Regulations can only come in picture when Bitcoin is converted to fiat. Government can never regulate something on internet entirely. Even if they do, they won't be successful and yeah by spending Bitcoin online won't bring you under any regulation. That is why the community wants a worldwide adoption of Bitcoin by merchants and vendors for better Bitcoin utility. This will keep governments at bay. And converting Bitcoin to fiat for its usage kills the overall purpose of Bitcoin as a currency. So far Bitcoin hasn't succeeded as currency and that is why governments are able to regulate to good extent. This trend will surely gonna change in coming years.