[WTS] Shakaru debt

[ermsam]

Shakaru owes me a substantial sum of money from a mining contract gone awry. Being as impatient as I am, I would like to see some of this cash very soon. I do believe that the debts will eventually be paid back and that Shakaru is trying to right his wrongs, but the timetable is unacceptable for me. So for anyone out there willing to wait PM with an offer!

Important note: I am owed $1250 dollars total, a purchase does not have to be in full.


Relevant link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989.0

[1714826526]

1714826526

[1714826526]

1714826526

[vragnaroda]

I do believe that the debts will eventually be paid back and that Shakaru is trying to right his wrongs

Why?

[imsaguy]

I'm watching this for obvious reasons.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Would be awesome if Shakaru bought it.

[OgNasty]

Would be awesome if Shakaru bought it.

With a loan.

[ermsam]

Shakaru owes me a substantial sum of money from a mining contract gone awry. Being as impatient as I am, I would like to see some of this cash very soon. I do believe that the debts will eventually be paid back and that Shakaru is trying to right his wrongs, but the timetable is unacceptable for me. So for anyone out there willing to wait PM with an offer!

Important note: I am owed $1250 dollars total, a purchase does not have to be in full.


Relevant link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989.0

I'll buy it from you for the BTC equivalent of $625

[Edit]

And it goes without saying: upon agreement of the three parties involved: me, you and shakaru

Of course, Shakaru should have to give consent. We'll see about that offer...

Would be awesome if Shakaru bought it.

No it wouldn't, that is tantamount to me being scammed,. I offered him a settlement of $1250, that is what he will have to pay.

[DeathAndTaxes]

No it wouldn't, that is tantamount to me being scammed,. I offered him a settlement of $1250, that is what he will have to pay.

Money is fungible.  What does it matter if you get $800 from him or $800 from someone else or $800 from him indirectly through someone else.  Obviously you are willing to settle for less than $1250 otherwise you wouldn't be offering it for sale.

[ermsam]

No it wouldn't, that is tantamount to me being scammed,. I offered him a settlement of $1250, that is what he will have to pay.

Money is fungible.  What does it matter if you get $800 from him or $800 from someone else or $800 from him indirectly through someone else.  Obviously you are willing to settle for less than $1250 otherwise you wouldn't be offering it for sale.

It's a matter of principle and unfortunately pride. I cannot bring myself to sell my losses to the person that lost it for me so they can profit.

[copumpkin]

Of course, Shakaru should have to give consent. We'll see about that offer...

I don't see why he should have to consent to it, at all. As far as he's concerned, if the debt gets sold, he owes the same amount of money to a different person.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Of course, Shakaru should have to give consent. We'll see about that offer...

I don't see why he should have to consent to it, at all. As far as he's concerned, if the debt gets sold, he owes the same amount of money to a different person.

Agreed.  Sellling debt occurs everday.  It would be useful for him to verify the debt exists (unless he already has).

[copumpkin]

I'll buy it from you for the BTC equivalent of $625

Someone wants me to tell you that you're insane.

[payb.tc]

Obviously you are willing to settle for less than $1250 otherwise you wouldn't be offering it for sale.

but 'settle for less' comes with strings attached.

the other aspect to it is timing.

faster money is more valuable money.

i.e. getting your hands on $400 within the next 10 minutes is probably preferable to getting $600 within 7 days or $900 within a month, or the full $1250 within nobody-really-knows-how-long.


i'd also settle for less than i'm currently owed, but that would also come with time-related provisions attached. otherwise i'll just wait it out.

[jamesg]

I will offer 20 btc for this debt.

[payb.tc]

i can see now why andrew suggested converting the full debt to a trade-able stock... it would make these negotiations much more efficient.

[imsaguy]

With all due respect, shakaru's role in all of this has 2 components:

1)  Validate the debts.

2) Pay back btc to the fund.


It is up to the fund to keep track of where the btc go to.  Shakaru doesn't get a say as to where the btc goes.  In addition, other claimants don't get a say either, so long as their share doesn't diminish (except in the case o new validated debts up until the window closes.)

[Bitsinmyhead]

No it wouldn't, that is tantamount to me being scammed,. I offered him a settlement of $1250, that is what he will have to pay.

Money is fungible.  What does it matter if you get $800 from him or $800 from someone else or $800 from him indirectly through someone else.  Obviously you are willing to settle for less than $1250 otherwise you wouldn't be offering it for sale.

The problem with shakaru buying it would be that it would be really unfair to the rest of his creditors. If shakaru somehow gets hold of $800 it should go directly to the fund for a fair repayment to all creditors, not just to buy one person out. 

[MPOE-PR]

Money is fungible.  What does it matter if you get $800 from him or $800 from someone else or $800 from him indirectly through someone else.  Obviously you are willing to settle for less than $1250 otherwise you wouldn't be offering it for sale.

The problem with shakaru buying it would be that it would be really unfair to the rest of his creditors. If shakaru somehow gets hold of $800 it should go directly to the fund for a fair repayment to all creditors, not just to buy one person out.

The 2nd quote explains the 1st. While money is in fact fungible and no it doesn't matter where the money comes from etc, this entire arrangement is predicated on the agreement that all of shakaru's money goes into the fund to repay creditors. Therefore, if he has money to buy back his own debt on this market he has defrauded the repay-creditors fund by the same amount.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Sorry a couple trillion dollars in deliquent debt changes hands every year.

Shakaru should do what has the highest ROI%. 
It may be to repay all investors in full. 
It may be to walk away from everything. 
It may be to settle for a fraction of the amount owed.

Fungibility of money is an irrelevant aspect of the conversation, it's not money that is at
stake here but rather reputation and credibility (credit history to put it in a jargon yanks
can grok).

That is a short sighted view.  Any decision can be traced back to NPV.  Not paying the debt has a cost but paying the debt also has a cost.  Free markets work when each side is aggressively working in the own self interest.  That is why settlement on debt is often an option. 

Many debts would simply never be repaid if settlement wasn't an option.  Given the choice of paying in full or accepting a temporary hit on ones credit many would just take the hit rather than trying to pay down an impossible amount of debt.  The ability to settle provides a net benefit to both sides. 

[copumpkin]

Of course, Shakaru should have to give consent. We'll see about that offer...

I don't see why he should have to consent to it, at all. As far as he's concerned, if the debt gets sold, he owes the same amount of money to a different person.

That is a point of view ... mine is that getting everyone to agree on the deal is
probably a lot better for everyone's general happiness in the long run.

Certainly having his consent won't hurt general satisfaction, and it's nice of you to wait for it, but even if he was vehemently against the deal, he shouldn't have a say in it.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Okay, sure, but ... why exactly ?

Routinely unsecured debt with full debtor history and demographic data, as well as the original contract, and ability to put derogatory data in credit report sells for <10% of face value.  Older or less desirable accounts may sell for less than 1% of face value.  The lowest accepted bid I have ever seen was 0.02% of face on quarter billion dollars in delinquent debt.

Now with is with complete employment information, access to credit reports, social security numbers, good phone lookups, certain legal rights under debt collection laws, ability to sue, access to original contract for enforcement in court, ability to run a skip trace (find someone who doesn't want to found), etc.

50% of face?  The seller should have accepted that offer within seconds and laughed all the way to the bank.

Then again I only write statistical models to evaluate the value of delinquent debt based on historical collections for a major debt buyer so I might not have a clue.