Long-term sustainability of Bitcoin

[hollowframe]

Watched the video. The video is not about the long term stability of bitcoin, it is actually an ad for peercoin. But it is very infomative, some points are a bit shaky, and I learnt a bit more about PoS. Enjoyed the video, but still not interested in peercoin.

peercoin uses a flawed method of PoS and still uses checkpoints.

PoS should really mean piece of shit as opposed to proof of stake as it means now. That is what PoS coins and PoS both are.

[kodtycoon]

Watched the video. The video is not about the long term stability of bitcoin, it is actually an ad for peercoin. But it is very infomative, some points are a bit shaky, and I learnt a bit more about PoS. Enjoyed the video, but still not interested in peercoin.

peercoin uses a flawed method of PoS and still uses checkpoints.

PoS should really mean piece of shit as opposed to proof of stake as it means now. That is what PoS coins and PoS both are.

you obviously don't know one single thing about proof of stake. Care to explain this in technical terms.  care to explain the difference between PoS in peer and nxt?

[NewMoneyEra]

Watched the video. The video is not about the long term stability of bitcoin, it is actually an ad for peercoin. But it is very infomative, some points are a bit shaky, and I learnt a bit more about PoS. Enjoyed the video, but still not interested in peercoin.

peercoin uses a flawed method of PoS and still uses checkpoints.

PoS should really mean piece of shit as opposed to proof of stake as it means now. That is what PoS coins and PoS both are.

The anonymous genius Satoshi invented Bitcoin.  He also founded this forum.

It is not important who Satoshi is.  

But, wouldn't it be nice to know, where did he go?


Proof-of-Stake!

[giveBTCpls]

I guess it depends on adoption only, if people use it it's all that matters. The coins can be divided so much that it's almost infinite. Price stability would be a concern tho.

[Bit_Happy]

...
If mining starts getting less profitable dues to block reward halving, then what stops the big players from pulling out of the BTC mining industry?..

There will probably be a larger number of transactions and BTC will likely have a much higher price, so mining should still be attractive even after block rewards are finished.

[counter]

...
If mining starts getting less profitable dues to block reward halving, then what stops the big players from pulling out of the BTC mining industry?..

There will probably be a larger number of transactions and BTC will likely have a much higher price, so mining should still be attractive even after block rewards are finished.

Agreed, if miners stopped mining there would surely be a raise in the price and then miners would start mining again.  Not to mention all the people who would be trading and speculating on the price so fees would go up significantly I'd suspect.

[pjr77]

This is a Peercoin video because the coin is dying and Mr bag holder needs a pump.
This thread should be in Altcoin Discussions not Bitcoin !!!

[ChessWhiz]

This is a Peercoin video because the coin is dying and Mr bag holder needs a pump.

This is a reasonable accusation. However, if I were bagholding, I would just sell, and buy up a coin I believed in. I recommend for anyone who holds Peercoins, but thinks that Peercoin has no future, to just sell their coins.

Anyway, I wouldn't put all the effort into making this video if I thought the coin was dying. If you search the internet, you will find a LOT of people in late 2011 announcing the death of Bitcoin after it crashed from $35 to below $3. The arguments were quite convincing, yet they were wrong. I think Peercoin is currently going through a similar phase.

[phillipsjk]

This is a Peercoin video because the coin is dying and Mr bag holder needs a pump.

This is a reasonable accusation. However, if I were bagholding, I would just sell, and buy up a coin I believed in. I recommend for anyone who holds Peercoins, but thinks that Peercoin has no future, to just sell their coins.

Anyway, I wouldn't put all the effort into making this video if I thought the coin was dying. If you search the internet, you will find a LOT of people in late 2011 announcing the death of Bitcoin after it crashed from $35 to below $3. The arguments were quite convincing, yet they were wrong. I think Peercoin is currently going through a similar phase.

I don't recall any convincing arguments that Bitcoin was dead back then. The media, focusing only on the price, may have declared it dead.

I searched, and only came up with these topics:

• At what pricepoint is bitcoin dead?
  October 9, 2011 (It is not, it works at any price)
  
• Bitcoin is dead & I predictied it - let's channel our discontent into OWS!
  October 18, 2011 niemivh: See, it died just like I predicted! Everbody else: Huh?
  
• Poll Question:    Is bitcoin dead?
  October 18, 2011 Yes: 18 No: 37 Huh?: 28 (I voted none of the above to reveal poll)
  

[ChronosCrypto]

I'm the person who produced this video -- I just created an account to match the new Youtube channel name.

I don't recall any convincing arguments that Bitcoin was dead back then.

Hm, you're right. I had misread this thread as anti-bitcoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=45977.0 However, it's clearly not. Opinions were mixed in late 2011, but there were no strong arguments that "bitcoin was dead." I stand corrected.

Watched the video. The video is not about the long term stability of bitcoin, it is actually an ad for peercoin. But it is very infomative, some points are a bit shaky, and I learnt a bit more about PoS. Enjoyed the video, but still not interested in peercoin.

I consider this to be a fair review. The video really is very pro-Peercoin, because it focuses on the potential risks in Bitcoin, but only briefly touches on the potential risks in Peercoin. If you are interested in other aspects of Proof of Stake, I recommend subscribing to the channel, as more videos are planned.

Thanks for watching!

[saveawedge]

Thoroughly enjoyed the video! A nice introduction to POS. You're very easy to watch and have good 'stage presence'. Nice work.

[Gargulan]

bitcoin is a mirage.

[theblacksquid]

...
If mining starts getting less profitable dues to block reward halving, then what stops the big players from pulling out of the BTC mining industry?..

There will probably be a larger number of transactions and BTC will likely have a much higher price, so mining should still be attractive even after block rewards are finished.

Agreed, if miners stopped mining there would surely be a raise in the price and then miners would start mining again.  Not to mention all the people who would be trading and speculating on the price so fees would go up significantly I'd suspect.

How would a halt in mining raise the price? Do you mean what if only a few miners are left mining?

[franky1]

if 99% of miners stopped mining.. this would NOT mean that instead of 25 coins per block only 0.25 btc will be produced.. no matter how many miners mine, or dont mine, there will always be 25btc per 10 minute average, 150btc an hour, 3600 bitcoins a day... no matter what!

.. and what you will find is that instead of 10,000 sharing bitcoins. only 100 people will share the bitcoins. meaning that instead of average of 0.36btc per day per person for the 10k miners.. there would be 36bitcoins per person.

so instead of average person mining for $200 a day,
100 lucky people will be receiving $21600 a day.

and guess what.. those 100 would sell their coins to get their $21600 pay-day. meaning a price crash of 3600 coins.

at the moment, if we bring the scenario back to 10k miners example. for every 0.36btc they only sell off a portion once a week/month to pay their electric bill that arrives in their mailbox. meaning, NO PRICE CRASH, as these smart miners are hoarding th majority for when bitcoin does get into the thousands so that they can selll off and get a nice few thousand pay day

[wenben]

Network will be vulnerable to attack if hash rate go down too drastically.

[hollowframe]

if 99% of miners stopped mining.. this would NOT mean that instead of 25 coins per block only 0.25 btc will be produced.. no matter how many miners mine, or dont mine, there will always be 25btc per 10 minute average, 150btc an hour, 3600 bitcoins a day... no matter what!

Not if too many miners stop mining all at once.

The difficulty is set so that with the current hashrate, miners will find, on average 1 block every 10 minutes, but if 50% of miners stop mining all at once, then for the rest of the difficulty period it will take 20 minutes, on average to find each block. If 90% of miners stop mining then it will take 100 minutes to find each block. If 99% of the miners stop mining then it would take ~16 2/3 hours to find each block. This would be a problem, although the risk of this happening is very low as miners have an incentive to continue mining (the revenue they receive)

[jonanon]

I tend to not both thinking about the sustainability of Bitcoin; it's simply best to have some just in case the price per BTC in currency skyrockets - no interest in it as a form of payment.

[gbooz]

What is sustainability of a lottery ticket? The same would be for the BTC. Because most use it as a speculative asset. Not as a payment tool.

[Gargulan]

What is sustainability of a lottery ticket? The same would be for the BTC. Because most use it as a speculative asset. Not as a payment tool.

This is actually a good analogy to current state of bitcoin.

Most people I know owning bitcoin are hoping it will go to over 10k some days.

[theblacksquid]

What is sustainability of a lottery ticket? The same would be for the BTC. Because most use it as a speculative asset. Not as a payment tool.

This is actually a good analogy to current state of bitcoin.

Most people I know owning bitcoin are hoping it will go to over 10k some days.

This is exactly the kind of mindset that we need to change if bitcoin is ever going to reach that high. It's demand as a payment tool, merchants accpeting it as payment, and employers paying their people in BTC is what will get it to skyrocket. Not speculation.