Boolberry Solves CryptoNote Flaws

[MaxDZ8]

I'm pretty sure last time I asked on reddit I was told the fix was still not there.

[benthach]

I think it's worth stressing that after the BBR team noted the problem with traceability, the rest of the Cryptonote community seemed to be oblivious of the problem for quite some time. It was later declared "a minor issue" to be fixed with a "minor" GUI improvement... last time I checked (but that was some time ago) the modification was still not there. Go wonder.

On the contrary, the very first Research Bulletin (MRL-0001) that the Monero Research Lab published identified the same problem with mixin=0 transactions, and provided a detailed analysis of the problem. This was only published after CryptoZoidberg detailed his change. In fact, the Monero Research Lab only came together well after this thread was started;)

Subsequent to that, the release of MRL-0004 shows how to actually solve that problem (without any of the tx flag drawbacks), and also shows how Monero addresses the unmixable dust problem, how it fixes the CryptoNote flaw of temporal output associations, and the association-by-use attack that other CryptoNote currencies are susceptible to.

can you make some points that make monero is better than others cryptonote?

[bbreconomy]

I think it's worth stressing that after the BBR team noted the problem with traceability, the rest of the Cryptonote community seemed to be oblivious of the problem for quite some time. It was later declared "a minor issue" to be fixed with a "minor" GUI improvement... last time I checked (but that was some time ago) the modification was still not there. Go wonder.

On the contrary, the very first Research Bulletin (MRL-0001) that the Monero Research Lab published identified the same problem with mixin=0 transactions, and provided a detailed analysis of the problem. This was only published after CryptoZoidberg detailed his change. In fact, the Monero Research Lab only came together well after this thread was started;)

Subsequent to that, the release of MRL-0004 shows how to actually solve that problem (without any of the tx flag drawbacks), and also shows how Monero addresses the unmixable dust problem, how it fixes the CryptoNote flaw of temporal output associations, and the association-by-use attack that other CryptoNote currencies are susceptible to.

can you make some points that make monero is better than others cryptonote?

This is a Boolberry thread and some of the BBR advantages are mention in the OP.

That being said I think XMR has some advantages too, most importantly is the relatively larger size of their community at the moment.

Boolberry has some technical advantages but a smaller community. Luckily our extremely slow distribution curve will allow others to easily join the community as we grow.  Supernet, our GUI wallet and plans to build a BBR economy will be noticed by a wider audience soon.

[sgk]

I think it's worth stressing that after the BBR team noted the problem with traceability, the rest of the Cryptonote community seemed to be oblivious of the problem for quite some time. It was later declared "a minor issue" to be fixed with a "minor" GUI improvement... last time I checked (but that was some time ago) the modification was still not there. Go wonder.

So Boolberry is the only cryptonote coin right now to have successfully 'fixed' the traceability issue of mixing=0 transactions?

[GTO911]

So Boolberry is the only cryptonote coin right now to have successfully 'fixed' the traceability issue of mixing=0 transactions?

Monero has fixed it by banning 0 mixins. A minimum mixin will be enforced

[LucyLovesCrypto]

So Boolberry is the only cryptonote coin right now to have successfully 'fixed' the traceability issue of mixing=0 transactions?

Monero has fixed it by banning 0 mixins. A minimum mixin will be enforced

This is absolutely incorrect. Monero will likely fix this in the future but it has not happened yet.

For proof request a withdraw from Poloniex. They still use a mixin of 0 for every transaction.

My understanding is that part of the problem is some people mining to Poloniex directly thereby creating lots of small "dust" transactions that would be expensive to deal with with a mixin higher than 0.

Monero still allows a mixin of 0 which is a major problem ithat Boolberry has ALREADY addressed at the protocol level

[GTO911]

Please read clearly before posting

A minimum mixin will be enforced

[LucyLovesCrypto]

Please read clearly before posting

A minimum mixin will be enforced

I read more carefully than you. You just copied a portion of the relevant quote to hide the full context of my comment.

"Monero has fixed it by banning 0 mixins. A minimum mixin will be enforced"

If you change "has" to "will" in the first part of the quote then I have no objection. I believe XMR will eventually fix this. It just has not happened yet.

[smooth]

So Boolberry is the only cryptonote coin right now to have successfully 'fixed' the traceability issue of mixing=0 transactions?

Monero has fixed it by banning 0 mixins. A minimum mixin will be enforced

This is absolutely incorrect. Monero will likely fix this in the future but it has not happened yet.

For proof request a withdraw from Poloniex. They still use a mixin of 0 for every transaction.

My understanding is that part of the problem is some people mining to Poloniex directly thereby creating lots of small "dust" transactions that would be expensive to deal with with a mixin higher than 0.

Monero still allows a mixin of 0 which is a major problem ithat Boolberry has ALREADY addressed at the protocol level

Not entirely. BBR allows minimum mix factor to be specified by the sender on outputs. But it doesn't require it and there is not really any incentive for the sender to use it (his transaction is already mixed on the input side, so what does the sender much care what the recipient does?). Nor is there any way to require that someone who is sending you coins use it, so you may get coins with no minimum set and the exact same issues as before (in fact the sender can do this deliberately to undermine the recipient's privacy). Finally the sender can impose arbitrary costs on the recipient by setting a high value.

If BBR imposed a minimum or required value on the minimum mix factor on outputs, that would be about the same as what Monero is doing, but that hasn't been done either.

The comment about the minimum not being enforced in Monero yet is correct. We do have a default mix factor in github but not in any build yet.

[bbreconomy]

I am bumping this thread to remind everyone of the importance of this issue.

Shapeshift, poloniex, bittrex, mining pools, etc should all use a minimim mixin # to protect the privacy of their users.

If necessary impose higher withdraw fees or larger minimum deposits.

If you are a miner, never mine directly to an exchange! Too many dust transactions make the cost of using a higher mixin # higher

[bbreconomy]

Supernet update below. Join slack if you want to track things more carefully. This coin offers many new ideas and works well already with a user friendly GUI, mixin improvements and a smaller blockchain for faster synching

Proof that BBR is still going to be an important part of supernet (from today):
you can join at :
https://sprnt.slack.com

bbreconomy
how is teleport integration doing?
bbreconomy
many cryptonote fans are excited about its inclusion in supernet
bbreconomy
I think a lot of monero believers will join supernet too if bbr is included soon
bbreconomy
it has a nice gui already unlike xmr and supernet is creating a nice economy
jl777
some details of the teleport have changed, but once it is finalized, then there will be a specific task for the BBR to perform
jl777
I am envisioning a trustless mixing using BBR ringsigs, so to combine teleport, mixing and ring sigs
bbreconomy
thanks jI777. glad to know you still plan to feature BBR for ring sigs

It is unreasonable to expect users to jump through proprietary hoops like Slack in order to obtain updates about a project previously promoted publicly.

Many months after jl777's announcement, BBR integration is still in the "envisioning" stage.  Just like everything else to do with SuperNet...lots of vaporware and visions but nothing real and working to show for it.

Not entirely vaporware, in terms of BBR at least:

CZ mentioned a while back that the integration was done on the BBR side and that appears to be the case:

https://github.com/cryptozoidberg/boolberry/commit/14eba55b4a496f2f04f5ad33891fe9f172b7d3db
https://github.com/cryptozoidberg/boolberry/commit/8fe1aa050c49dbabd3e09d82473b0bc1b113fdc7
https://github.com/cryptozoidberg/boolberry/commit/28995ed64f844891c11a14e268550797e4cd5e08
https://github.com/cryptozoidberg/boolberry/commit/efa3e9fa03ad6427fee335b4f466ab45ef079c7f
https://github.com/cryptozoidberg/boolberry/commit/d99dc8018f955989a76e43af0b62424a4e84767b
https://github.com/cryptozoidberg/boolberry/commit/d188d7a053e6124d0006eebeddafcff332b79cb1

I do not know what is going on from the "SuperNET" side, nor do I care.

[benthach]

boolberry is the better coin than any cryptonote, include shitcoin like monero. boolberry have better code and security.

[mathgal23]

It is nice to be hearing more about Boolberry again. The coin had an extremely fair launch and has many nice features. I really feel like it was overlooked

[mathgal23]

I found another presentation on the same page as the original post

This one deals with blockchain bloat:
     
http://www.slideshare.net/boolberry/boolberry-reduces-blockchain-bloat

[boolberry]

It is nice to be hearing more about Boolberry again. The coin had an extremely fair launch and has many nice features. I really feel like it was overlooked

There has not been much marketing focus yet. Just like bitcoin, most early efforts have been focused on technology.

When the time is right, exposure will increase.  Luckily for latecomers, boolberry has one of the most rational emission curves among the major cryptonote coins. There was no massive premine or fastmine of BBR

https://twitter.com/BBRcurrency/status/627100158073942016

[smooth]

There was no massive premine or fastmine of BBR

I agree. To be more precise there was no premine or fastmine at all.

The per-block developer payment is a bit like a premine though, especially how it is structured (negative votes just defer payment, they don't actually reduce the total amount given to the developer, which is fixed at 1% of the total).

Still that is not at all massive by the standards of other coins with a developer coin grab.

[boolberry]

There was no massive premine or fastmine of BBR

I agree. To be more precise there was no premine or fastmine at all.

The per-block developer payment is a bit like a premine though, especially how it is structured (negative votes just defer payment, they don't actually reduce the total amount given to the developer, which is fixed at 1% of the total).

Still that is not at all massive by the standards of other coins with a developer coin grab.

You are correct. No fastmine or premine. Developer payment was disclosed since the beginning. If Boolberry was just a simple clone, nobody would want to mine it and reward the developer. Luckily many people do recognize the innovation at boolberry and find the developer payment very reasonable

I should note that community development donations for many coins including AEON which you are working on far exceed 1%.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641696.msg11986798#msg11986798

AEON info from your quote:
"Donation fund:

balance: 414176.048419687951, unlocked balance: 414165.931766313195
Previously spent: 19000 (bounties)"

414,176/18,4000,000 = 2.25 %

Your current donations as a percentage of all coins that will ever be mined (excluding your current tail emission proposal) far exceeds that of Boolberry

Most developers will not work for free so funding is important.  As long as everything is transparent (as it is with both Boolberry and Aeon) I see no problems

[smooth]

There was no massive premine or fastmine of BBR

I agree. To be more precise there was no premine or fastmine at all.

The per-block developer payment is a bit like a premine though, especially how it is structured (negative votes just defer payment, they don't actually reduce the total amount given to the developer, which is fixed at 1% of the total).

Still that is not at all massive by the standards of other coins with a developer coin grab.

You are correct. No fastmine or premine. Developer payment was disclosed since the beginning.

I agree 100%. Although not relevant to BBR, I've even said that an actual up-front premine, as long as it is honestly disclosed up front, is legitimate. People may buy or not buy it is up to them, at least there is nothing fraudulent about it.

In any case everything about the BBR parameters was properly disclosed.

I should note that community development donations for many coins including AEON which you are working on far exceed 1%.

Yes, and you might want to consider donations for BBR. 1% of the block rewards is not very much. Donations apparently work better.

[boolberry]

Announcement!

Boolberry has been invited by a Monero subreddit moderator to discuss BBR in their subreddit.  Come join the discussion. Lets be thankful and polite as guests in their subreddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3fjs1s/monthly_monero_altcoin_discussion_mmad_august/ctp97p7

This is a good opportunity for us. Please participate in the discussion. Even if you love Boolberry you may learn a few things and decide to start supporting Monero as well

[HCLivess]

So now monero actually needs a different coin to manage it's reputation?

outrage