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Author Topic: Malaysia Airlines MH17 Crash: Boeing 777 Crashed in Ukraine Near Russian Border  (Read 51910 times)
DannyElfman
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July 17, 2014, 09:37:12 PM
 #41

This will be the heck of a mess to sort out!
First of my condolences to the victims and their families.  Sad

For economical and political consequences;
The first issue will be Schipol Airport, it will have a hard time to recover customers to Asia. Most of the passengers will prefer to be re-routed by South, which may cost NL a lot.
The RU-EU relations aren't already that good, if it comes to be shot by Russian SAMs it can be the last drop to put up the Iron Curtain back in place.

Just wonder who was the jackboot that sent that commercial plane down!...
Russia,
I'm going to sit on the fence with this one and wait for an investigation. Incidents like this in a war zone tend to be PR cannon fodder that everyone tries to capitalize on immediately without solid evidence which creates a lot of rumors and bad intel. there are reports that the AFP have seen such missiles in rebels control previously, but is that a rumor spawned by this incident or reliable? Who knows. Certainly not me.
If Ukraine operates these weapons systems as well, could the pro-Russian separatists have stolen one of them and used it?
Both the Ukraine and Russia have the military ability to shoot down a airplane flying at the altitude the place was likely flying at. The Ukraine would need to be insane to try something like this as it would not go over well with the US and the west who they desperately need help from in defending themselves. That only leaves Russia as the potential culprit.

From what I have read in the media, these Surface to Air missiles are not something that can be operated without extensive training and there are several pieces of equipment that must be used in order for SAMs to operate. 

This spot for rent.
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July 17, 2014, 09:37:49 PM
 #42

deleted article ... funny how russian can delete ... thanks to google

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Atc3TPU2icpEJ%3Alifenews.ru%2Fnews%2F136801+&cd=1&hl=uk&ct=clnk&gl=nl

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July 17, 2014, 09:37:53 PM
 #43

Ukrainian army has confirmed that russian terrorists used russian anti-aircraft system but failed, there was an ukrainian military plane flying near the malaysian one. Simple mistake, great anti-aircraft btw.


What a bullshit? Pro-russian terrorists has gotten russian anti-aircraft system(a lot of proofs), as i said before they just failed, they wanted to shoot down ukrainian plane of military which was flying near that region... This is what happens when monkeys get modern weapon.


You actually think Russia is behind this? Why would Putin purposely do something to hurt the appearances of the rebels? It's more likely that the Ukrainians shot it down to blame Russia.

Vladimir Putin is many things, but he is not an idiot. Your assessment on Ukrainians shooting it down is most likely correct. Another possible scenario might be Putin political rival.
247crypto
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July 17, 2014, 09:51:55 PM
 #44


That is Moscow based online TV and news site, not a Donetsk/Lugansk republics font.

Paya
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July 17, 2014, 10:37:57 PM
 #45

A Malaysia Airlines official in Europe spoke at a news conference, offering a partial list of victims: at least 154 Dutch citizens, 27 Australians, 23 Malaysians, 11 Indonesians, 6 Britons, 4 Germans, 4 Belgians, 3 Filipinos and one Canadian.
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July 17, 2014, 10:41:47 PM
 #46


Rebel Leader in Leaked Audio: We Just Shot Down a Plane

http://mashable.com/2014/07/17/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-russia-cossacks-leaked-audio/


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247crypto
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July 17, 2014, 10:51:23 PM
 #47


LOL

This SBU fake about shooting from COSSAC ROAD BLOCK use nikname, of activist, that actually is in Russia.

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July 17, 2014, 10:56:47 PM
 #48

Malaysian Passenger Jet Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

https://news.vice.com/article/malaysian-passenger-jet-shot-down-over-eastern-ukraine

Where Did Ukraine's Rebels Get the Missile Launcher That Allegedly Shot Down the Malaysia Airlines Plane?

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118741/ukraine-rebels-allegedly-downed-malaysian-airlines-buk-launcher

Missile claims deepen escalation fears

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/23b749b0-0ddd-11e4-85ab-00144feabdc0.html#slide0



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niothor
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July 17, 2014, 10:58:32 PM
 #49


LOL

This SBU fake about shooting from COSSAC ROAD BLOCK use nikname, of activist, that actually is in Russia.

So the broken propaganda machine called 247crypto is actually acknowledging that pro russian activists operating in urkaine are currently hiding inside Russia.

How clever from you..


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July 17, 2014, 11:08:51 PM
 #50

Was the plane supposed to fly over this area anyway? It seems like a terrible choice on the part of the Malaysia Airlines.
Paya
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July 17, 2014, 11:12:13 PM
Last edit: July 17, 2014, 11:31:06 PM by Paya
 #51


Well, if anything else, this convo shows that rebels had no intentions to shoot at civilian aircraft, nor did they expect one to fly over there in first place. That's of course assuming that this leaked record is authentic, which we cannot really know for sure at this point.

Was the plane supposed to fly over this area anyway? It seems like a terrible choice on the part of the Malaysia Airlines.

It seems that Kiev advised all companies to avoid that area but they didn't bother to close the airspace.
247crypto
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July 17, 2014, 11:18:40 PM
 #52

pro russian activists operating in urkaine are currently hiding inside Russia.

How clever from you..

Yes, volunteers in Donbass are from many countries. Is that new for You?
Yakuts for example.

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July 17, 2014, 11:21:22 PM
Last edit: July 17, 2014, 11:36:45 PM by niothor
 #53

pro russian activists operating in urkaine are currently hiding inside Russia.

How clever from you..

Yes, volunteers in Donbass are from many countries. Is that new for You?
Yakuts for example.


Learn english before contradicting with me.

You obviously have no clue what people here are saying nor what you post using google translate.



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July 17, 2014, 11:28:34 PM
 #54

Was the plane supposed to fly over this area anyway? It seems like a terrible choice on the part of the Malaysia Airlines.
I flew 2004 over Iraq, the plane only made a slight correction of the straight course, but still over Iraqi territory.
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July 17, 2014, 11:36:16 PM
 #55


You obviously have no clue what people here are saying not what you post using google translate.



LOL

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July 18, 2014, 12:04:54 AM
 #56

Before this article gets also deleted:

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738262

The proof that the rebels had indeed a Buk missile defense system.

Quote
DONETSK, June 29, /ITAR-TASS/. Self-defence forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic have taken control over a missile defence army unit equipped with Buk missile defence systems, the press service of the Donetsk People’s Republic told Itar-Tass on Sunday.


Why are they now claiming they don't have it ?


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July 18, 2014, 05:15:50 AM
 #57

Before this article gets also deleted:

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738262

The proof that the rebels had indeed a Buk missile defense system.

Quote
DONETSK, June 29, /ITAR-TASS/. Self-defence forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic have taken control over a missile defence army unit equipped with Buk missile defence systems, the press service of the Donetsk People’s Republic told Itar-Tass on Sunday.


Why are they now claiming they don't have it ?

Because claiming they don't have it pushes them away from the responsibility.
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July 18, 2014, 05:25:26 AM
 #58

Bad luck for a country losing 2 planes in the same year.
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July 18, 2014, 05:26:37 AM
 #59

Bad luck for a country losing 2 planes in the same year.

Not only the country, but also the one airline.
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July 18, 2014, 05:57:21 AM
 #60

Was the plane supposed to fly over this area anyway? It seems like a terrible choice on the part of the Malaysia Airlines.

The plane was not supposed to fly exactly that route. The flight usually flies in a corridor further south, but on this day the pilots received a modified route.

Now that the initial shock has died down a bit, it's interesting to observe the first reaction.

Within 30 minutes of a crash, Poroshenko made TV speech, where he in no uncertain terms blamed Russia, no further proof needed, and where hen mentioned calling Dutch head of state and offering condolences (shouldn't he have called Malaysia first?). The speech gave an impression of being ready-made for the occasion.

Russia news channels were open-minded. Several theories were proposed, including a technical failure on the plane, and freedom fighters shooting it. Each theory got some attention, and interviews.
Such, Borodai, head of PRD, gave his statement as to the absence of weapons capable of reaching 10000km in the republic's arsenal.
Video from the crash site was shown, including passports. (I think they are too well-preserved. The plane should have had a lot of fuel on board, yet there are little burn marks)
Routes and corridors were analysed.
They mentioned a theory that a plane could have been shot down by air-to-air missile.
A theory of a mix-up with the Presidential flight #1 was given due attention.
A theory that the plane was slated to fall on Russia territory, but was shot prematurely was also raised.
It was explicitly said that none of the theories should be taken as truths until investigations was over.

That's what I liked about Russia's reporting.

Now this whole thing start to remind of the Sakhalin shooting, where both passenger and military operation from US were involved.
Recommended background reading is Michael Brun's "Incident at Sakhalin: The True Mission of KAL Flight 007"
http://www.amazon.com/Incident-Sakhalin-True-Mission-Flight/dp/1568580541

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“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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