Malaysia Airlines MH17 Crash: Boeing 777 Crashed in Ukraine Near Russian Border

[Nemo1024]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeroenakkermans/

Lot of photos from MH-17 crash site.

This German journalist is thorough. Good.

He's Dutch. Jeroen Akkermans works as a correspondent for the Dutch TV channel RTL. He's stationed in Germany, but also covering Eastern Europe.

Oh, isn't RTL German:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTL_Television

Googling...
There seems to be a Dutch RTL as well

[Rannasha]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeroenakkermans/

Lot of photos from MH-17 crash site.

This German journalist is thorough. Good.

He's Dutch. Jeroen Akkermans works as a correspondent for the Dutch TV channel RTL. He's stationed in Germany, but also covering Eastern Europe.

Oh, isn't RTL German:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTL_Television

Googling...
There seems to be a Dutch RTL as well

RTL is originally from Luxembourg (Radio Television Luxembourg), but it's an international brand these days.

[applesRyummy]

So the USA basically said, "We have evidence. And we won't publish it."

Congratulations, USA. You are consciously obstructing the investigation.

Publishing the information would likely give away information about how capable our intelligence capabilities are

Fact is that the USA is obstructing the investigation. Rationalizing it doesn't change that fact. Just calling it as it is.

It is obvious why they aren't publishing the information. It's because it would incriminate the Ukraine government and not the separatists. There was a military jet flying near the passenger plane at the time it was shot down. They also confiscated the Air Traffic Control records and refuse to release them. These are both major red flags that indicate the Ukrainian government, and not the separatists, are at fault here.

Obvious false flag is obvious.

Do you have any links/sources to back this up? It sounds like you are just spreading propaganda.

[Nemo1024]

‘She might be still alive!’ Parents of MH17 victim arrive at crash site in Ukraine
http://rt.com/news/175808-malaysia-plane-parent-daughter/

The parents of 25-year-old Fatima, who was among the passengers on board the tragic Malaysian plane, don’t want to believe their daughter is dead. They have arrived at the crash site in eastern Ukraine, and are determined to look for her.

George and Angela Dyczynski from Perth, Australia, laid flowers at the site of the crashed Malaysian Airplane jet near the village of Grabovo for their daughter, Fatima Dyczynski, on Saturday. They were the first relatives of the plane victims to arrive at the site of the tragedy, according to NBC's Kier Simmons.

...

"Nobody speaks about survivors and there must be a reason for it. There is some evidence there are survivors still."

Poor people. I know first-hand this denial of a loss in grief.

[Tusk]

I'm not sure if this has been posted already. Whistleblower: Ukrainian Troops Shot Down MH17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR5HtzbMy-E&list=PLKkSfhYk-XBhYhpac4yoCOYsudZ0-g84N

[tee-rex]

I'm not sure if this has been posted already. Whistleblower: Ukrainian Troops Shot Down MH17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR5HtzbMy-E&list=PLKkSfhYk-XBhYhpac4yoCOYsudZ0-g84N

No, this doesn't look plausible, especially that part about drunken Ukrainian soldiers since "the [satellite] imagery showed what looked like beer bottles scattered around the site". Even in the best atmospheric conditions (which were far from perfect on that day), no satellite has a resolution to see bottles and objects of equal size.

[AnswerQuestion]

I'm not sure if this has been posted already. Whistleblower: Ukrainian Troops Shot Down MH17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR5HtzbMy-E&list=PLKkSfhYk-XBhYhpac4yoCOYsudZ0-g84N

No, this doesn't look plausible, especially that part about drunken Ukrainian soldiers since "the [satellite] imagery showed what looked like beer bottles scattered around the site". Even in the best atmospheric conditions (which were far from perfect on that day), no satellite has a resolution to see bottles and objects of equal size.

LOL. I don't think this even needs a response other then the fact that this is funny.

[blablahblah]

And for the notice, the ones putting more pressure over EU are the former Soviet-ring states now EU members; Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and so on. Not USA or UK.
Don't know what the Russians did there, but those guys don't fancy Russia much.

Well, in Latvia and Lithuania USSR built a strong industrial and agricultural complex. These republics had the highest living standard in the whole of USSR,

Where do you keep getting this shit from?

Why do you think Lithuania doesn't like Russia much today? Because of Western propaganda? Or maybe because the Baltic states were basically just slave states, forced to export most of the produce East.

Explain why the children were forced to learn Russian at school?

[Balthazar]

And for the notice, the ones putting more pressure over EU are the former Soviet-ring states now EU members; Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and so on. Not USA or UK.
Don't know what the Russians did there, but those guys don't fancy Russia much.

Well, in Latvia and Lithuania USSR built a strong industrial and agricultural complex. These republics had the highest living standard in the whole of USSR,

Where do you keep getting this shit from?

Why do you think Lithuania doesn't like Russia much today? Because of Western propaganda? Or maybe because the Baltic states were basically just slave states, forced to export most of the produce East.

Explain why the children were forced to learn Russian at school?

It smells... Epic fail, as usual.



Who cares about their feelings for Russia... They'll become extinct in a few decades, all thanks to "democratization".

However I hope that they're smart enough to overthrow this criminal government, which uses liberal agenda to perform a silent genocide of own people.

[tee-rex]

I'm not sure if this has been posted already. Whistleblower: Ukrainian Troops Shot Down MH17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR5HtzbMy-E&list=PLKkSfhYk-XBhYhpac4yoCOYsudZ0-g84N

No, this doesn't look plausible, especially that part about drunken Ukrainian soldiers since "the [satellite] imagery showed what looked like beer bottles scattered around the site". Even in the best atmospheric conditions (which were far from perfect on that day), no satellite has a resolution to see bottles and objects of equal size.

LOL. I don't think this even needs a response other then the fact that this is funny.

I'm curious about what part of my reply made you laugh. Are you not afraid about making a fool of yourself?

[BCEmporium]

And for the notice, the ones putting more pressure over EU are the former Soviet-ring states now EU members; Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and so on. Not USA or UK.
Don't know what the Russians did there, but those guys don't fancy Russia much.

Well, in Latvia and Lithuania USSR built a strong industrial and agricultural complex. These republics had the highest living standard in the whole of USSR,

Where do you keep getting this shit from?

Why do you think Lithuania doesn't like Russia much today? Because of Western propaganda? Or maybe because the Baltic states were basically just slave states, forced to export most of the produce East.

Explain why the children were forced to learn Russian at school?

Can you cut the crap about "state media" or "propaganda"?
We know from their governments. When there is some issue with Russia the Western goverments goes with some restrain. Those start right away in a "kill them all" shit.

[needFREElunch]

And for the notice, the ones putting more pressure over EU are the former Soviet-ring states now EU members; Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and so on. Not USA or UK.
Don't know what the Russians did there, but those guys don't fancy Russia much.

Well, in Latvia and Lithuania USSR built a strong industrial and agricultural complex. These republics had the highest living standard in the whole of USSR,

Where do you keep getting this shit from?

Why do you think Lithuania doesn't like Russia much today? Because of Western propaganda? Or maybe because the Baltic states were basically just slave states, forced to export most of the produce East.

Explain why the children were forced to learn Russian at school?

Can you cut the crap about "state media" or "propaganda"?
We know from their governments. When there is some issue with Russia the Western goverments goes with some restrain. Those start right away in a "kill them all" shit.

The western media is generally free to publish whatever they want. They will often restrain themselves to protect their reputation but legally can publish what they wish. The  Russian media in the other hand is controlled by the government and is not free to publish what they want.

[Nemo1024]

The western media is generally free to publish whatever they want. They will often restrain themselves to protect their reputation but legally can publish what they wish. The  Russian media in the other hand is controlled by the government and is not free to publish what they want.

And you base that assumption on what? How much Russia media to you read or are you just repeating what the Western mass media told you? Have you read numerous articles critical of the government and the policies? Are you still confusing USSR with Russia?

Is the free Western media free to ignore ethnic cleansing and slaughter in Ukraine that has been going on for 3 months and far surpassed the tragedy seen in Gaza? Is it free to ignore Russia being bombarded from Ukraine? Will it suddenly find itself even more free to report once Russia starts to retaliate, just like free Western media freely ignored killings of Serbs in Yugoslavia, but once retaliations started the Western media befreed itself from its freedom and started to report about "bad unprovoked Serbs"?
The only freedom I see in the Western media so far (with the possible exceptions of Associated Press and the Guardian), is freedom to concoct free-flying tales, not backs by any evidence, completely freely following the call of Washington, understanding that if they don't do it freely, then other options exist.

[Nemo1024]

Heavy fighting in E. Ukraine prevents experts from visiting MH17 crash site
http://rt.com/news/175976-ukraine-mh17-malaysia-fighting/

International experts have been unable to visit the crash site of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, due to heavy fighting in the Donetsk area. Kiev and anti-government forces are blaming each other for hampering the investigation.

“We heard indications there's fighting going on,” said Alexander Hug, deputy head for the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) monitoring mission in Ukraine.

“The situation on the ground appears to be unsafe...we therefore decided to deploy tomorrow morning,” he added.

Hug expressed concerns that the fighting near the village of Grabovo in Ukraine’s Donetsk region will “most likely affect crash site.”

Finally:

Russia assembles MH17 investigation team

Meanwhile, Moscow has put together a team of experts to take part in the international investigation. Oleg Storchevoy, desputy head of Russia's federal air traffic agency Rosaviation, has been put in charge of the group.

According to Storchevoy, the main task of the international experts will be “finding the true reasons which led to this tragedy,” because “the whole world, including Russia, is interested in objective investigation.”

Lavrov: Hopeful MH17 crash probe will respect ‘presumption of innocence’
http://rt.com/news/176040-lavrov-russia-ukraine-plane/

Ha, from the first minute, the West and their lapdog media were acting under the principal "guilty even if proven innocent". Witch hunts during the dark age were done under the same guidelines.


'Not terrorists': Hysteria over MH17 fails to take account of both law and facts
http://rt.com/op-edge/175496-hysteria-mh17-ukraine-facts-terrorists/

This an Op-Edge with Research Associate at the INSYTE Group, Dr. Roslyn Fuller. It take up some very poignant legal implications of a possible scenario development:

The first legal question is whether or not accidentally shooting down a passenger plane when you meant to shoot down a fighter jet could be classified as an act of terrorism. In my opinion, the answer is a resounding ‘no.’

Crack open any textbook on criminal law and you’ll find that intent forms a pretty basic part of most crimes. There are some things you simply cannot do by accident and being a terrorist is one of them.

Also:

Who constructed this narrative of a Putin-led Russia somehow in favor of terrorists complete with ready-made petition? Concerned citizens appalled by some unspecified Russian behavior?

Or Alex Konanykhin, former Russian oligarch who has been wanted in Russia since Yeltsin’s days to face charges relating to embezzlement and financial fraud and whose American business ventures include WikiExperts.us (which accepted money to write Wikipedia entries for businesses until it was banned), and Transparent Business (which allows employers to monitor their employees’ computer activity in real time), and who was the Republican National Committee’s choice for New York Businessman of the Year in 2004?

...

Despite originating from a questionable source, Konanykhin’s work has apparently prepared the “Russia sponsors terrorism” line, in much the same way as the Bene Gesserit prepared the hapless residents of Dune to accept the Kwisatz Haderach in Frank Herbert’s famous dystopian novels. First invent the narrative, then press the facts into it. It might have been OK for science-fiction, but law isn’t supposed to work this way.

There are three questions to be answered in regards to MH17: one factual and two legal. The factual question is whether or not the Donetsk rebels shot down MH17 by accident. We do not know the answer to this question at the time of writing, but hopefully this will be revealed. The rest of this article examines how we would answering the two legal questions under the assumption that the factual question has been answered and the Donetsk rebels did indeed shoot down MH17 under the mistaken belief that it was a fighter jet. It is obviously a large assumption, but considering that accusations of sponsoring terrorism are now being bandied about on academic blogs, I think it is well worth exploring.

[Nemo1024]

'Fake': Russian Defence Min rebuffs US sat image claims
http://rt.com/news/176120-fake-ukraine-images-defence/

Russia’s Defense Ministry has stated that “fake” satellite images of alleged shelling of Ukraine from Russian territory were created by US counselors “with close links to Ukraine’s Security Council.”

The authenticity of the images is impossible to prove, the ministry added.

[BCEmporium]

It may not mean that "media" isn't tendentious, but Western media isn't only totally free (each TV station, newspaper, radio does and broadcasts whatever it wants) as it is changing, nowadays more people gather information from the internet than from the classical media.
Obviously there are also some pressure groups that keep pressing for have their agenda at the top.
For an instance Israel x Palestine. Due to Israel presence many NGO's operate at Palestine, because it is still somewhat developed for Muslim countries standards and they don't risk their life much, unlike Afghanistan or Iraq, so they keep making publicity of the situation to profit as much possible with it. So nobody knows about Ukraine, unless a plane comes down there, but also nobody knows about ISIS, "honor washings" (those without shred of honor seams to value that much, as usual rarity sets the price) and the daily murders and mass-murders going on.

About the ex-Soviet Republics, and because the reply before I was at my mobile, my source isn't any media, but by their diplomatic pressure, they keep saying we are too soft for Russia.
A country like mine, Portugal, doesn't have a single battle against Russia anywhere at all at its History, our gas comes from North Africa, so we logically wouldn't harass Russia for no reason. We always had great relation with it. We will do however what EU requests because we are part of it.

[Nemo1024]

About the ex-Soviet Republics, and because the reply before I was at my mobile, my source isn't any media, but by their diplomatic pressure, they keep saying we are too soft for Russia.
A country like mine, Portugal, doesn't have a single battle against Russia anywhere at all at its History, our gas comes from North Africa, so we logically wouldn't harass Russia for no reason. We always had great relation with it. We will do however what EU requests because we are part of it.

And that is the sad bit. Because that way your country loses a part of what defines it as a state: sovereignty.
It's even sadder for countries that were Russian friends throughout history, whom Russia helped on numerous occasions, and who are now forced to go not only against that friendship, but also against their sound economical interests. I am thinking about Bulgaria here.

[tee-rex]

About the ex-Soviet Republics, and because the reply before I was at my mobile, my source isn't any media, but by their diplomatic pressure, they keep saying we are too soft for Russia.
A country like mine, Portugal, doesn't have a single battle against Russia anywhere at all at its History, our gas comes from North Africa, so we logically wouldn't harass Russia for no reason. We always had great relation with it. We will do however what EU requests because we are part of it.

And that is the sad bit. Because that way your country loses a part of what defines it as a state: sovereignty.
It's even sadder for countries that were Russian friends throughout history, whom Russia helped on numerous occasions, and who are now forced to go not only against that friendship, but also against their sound economical interests. I am thinking about Bulgaria here.

God forbid Russia from having Bulgaria among its friends. The latter was a Germany ally in the First as well as in the Second world war. So guess what side will it ally with in case there should be the Third?

[Nemo1024]

Rocket blast caused ‘massive explosive decompression,’ downing MH17 – Kiev
http://rt.com/news/176136-mh17-crash-rocket-ukraine/

Ukraine says analysis of the black box flight recorders from the downed Malaysia Airlines plane shows it was destroyed by shrapnel from a rocket blast. Dutch investigators, however, say they have not shared data with Kiev, calling the claim “premature.”

Kiev caught red-handed again! 

[tee-rex]

Rocket blast caused ‘massive explosive decompression,’ downing MH17 – Kiev
http://rt.com/news/176136-mh17-crash-rocket-ukraine/

Ukraine says analysis of the black box flight recorders from the downed Malaysia Airlines plane shows it was destroyed by shrapnel from a rocket blast. Dutch investigators, however, say they have not shared data with Kiev, calling the claim “premature.”

Kiev caught red-handed again! 

This is blood on their hands.