Exchange Bitcoins for Paypal safely (starting in a few days)

[Mahkul]

We are planning on adding a secure for sellers option of trading BTC for Paypal on BitMarket.eu.

After CoinPal was shut down we want to come to the rescue and provide a similar service. At the same time we want to make sure that people selling BTC in our exchange for Paypal will not be victims of chargeback.

On BitMarket.eu at the moment the Paypal option is enabled by default - anyone can buy and sell BTC for Paypal. The problem is that sellers do not want to accept Paypal because of chargebacks, so you won't see many offers selling Bitcoins for PP (or if you do - the prices are usually much higher than if wire-transfer is used). We want to fix this since we realise that many new users have no idea how to use IRC in order to trade on #otc or they have no idea how to come in possession of Liberty Reserve Dollars; or they simply don't want to pay commissions and wait for days until they get their LR USD to be able to trade on mtgox.

Mndrix (CoinPal) had a very good fraud avoidance system in place - chargebacks weren't the reason for which it was shut down. The reason was that Paypal didn't like the idea of exchanging BTC using that account. This is why we are not going to be selling BTC for Paypal ourselves, this would just get us shut down as well. Instead, we are introducing a reliable and trust-worthy platform where sellers can feel safe offering Paypal as a payment option.

Here's how we will achieve this:

The OTC rating is quite a reliable tool for verifying honesty (given that you investigate whom the positive feedback for the new users came from). On top of that we are going to introduce a verification system based on the CoinPal's one. There will also be more security checks for users who want to buy with Paypal (in some cases - address verification, ebay feedback will also be used as a reference along with some other ways of confirming identity and reliability). The option of buying with Paypal for each member will be MANUALLY enabled; we are going to dedicate our time to ensure that everyone will be checked before they can trade using Paypal (this of course only applies to buyers since the sellers will have their BTC frozen anyway).

Of course, if someone was an honest trader on CoinPal we will open your account without any problems (after consulting mndrix at YOUR request, so that he is not disclosing your private information without your consent) and you will be able to use Paypal straight away. We are, however, planning on putting a limit on every newcomer - which will be lifted once they have received 3 positive ratings from existing members. This doesn't apply to people with high positive #otc rating. By the way, the exchange will have its own feedback system.

If you are registered on bitcoinmarket.com or bitcoin-central.net and you will be able to prove your identity we will also enable the Paypal option for you. There are plenty of ways.

So, if you guys could give me any feedback regarding what else we could do before we actually start coding that would be awesome. All suggestions welcome.

[PabloW]

Im not sure I understood everything, but Im glad someone is doing something about this matter to make it work again

I want to join bitcoinmarket, but i cant since its closed
I actually done one transaction with CoinPal so I guess he has my Paypal adress and other information. Is this enough info for me to register now?

[Mahkul]

I want to join bitcoinmarket, but i cant since its closed

As far as I remember bitcoinmarket.com is invitation only, but I could be wrong.

I actually done one transaction with CoinPal so I guess he has my Paypal adress and other information. Is this enough info for me to register now?

If only the owner of CoinPal confirms that you are okay, then yes. Please keep in mind that the system is not in place YET. Once we have it implemented, the Paypal option will be disabled for all members and we will start the verification process for whoever will be interested in buying for Paypal.

[Miner-TE]

Interesting,  Count me in (if verified) when it becomes available.  I've sold to CoinPal a few times and need this service.

Thanks.

[xarchangelzerox]

What a relief.  I only heard about bitcoin a week ago, and got very excited about it.  Still waiting on the parts to support my two new 5870s to arrive so I can really start mining.

After reading the news about coinpal just now, I was starting to get that sinking feeling of "why did you just spend 700 dollars on a spare computer you don't need" in my stomach. 

I've been mining with deepbit for about a week, most of the time, but haven't traded any of it in for USD.  How will I be able to establish reputation as a complete and total newcomer?

[Mahkul]

What a relief.  I only heard about bitcoin a week ago, and got very excited about it.  Still waiting on the parts to support my two new 5870s to arrive so I can really start mining.

After reading the news about coinpal just now, I was starting to get that sinking feeling of "why did you just spend 700 dollars on a spare computer you don't need" in my stomach. 

I've been mining with deepbit for about a week, most of the time, but haven't traded any of it in for USD.  How will I be able to establish reputation as a complete and total newcomer?

Once the service is in place (should be around Thursday), just email admin at bitmarket dot eu and we will find a way to get you verified.

[xarchangelzerox]

What a relief.  I only heard about bitcoin a week ago, and got very excited about it.  Still waiting on the parts to support my two new 5870s to arrive so I can really start mining.

After reading the news about coinpal just now, I was starting to get that sinking feeling of "why did you just spend 700 dollars on a spare computer you don't need" in my stomach. 

I've been mining with deepbit for about a week, most of the time, but haven't traded any of it in for USD.  How will I be able to establish reputation as a complete and total newcomer?

Once the service is in place (should be around Thursday), just email admin at bitmarket dot eu and we will find a way to get you verified.

Awesome!  Looking forward to seeing the progress between now and then =D

[goatpig]

How will I be able to establish reputation as a complete and total newcomer?

The verification is for people looking to buy Bitcoins with Paypal. My understanding is that, as a miner, you are looking to sell Bitcoins, so that reputation part doesn't apply to you directly.

[Mahkul]

How will I be able to establish reputation as a complete and total newcomer?

The verification is for people looking to buy Bitcoins with Paypal. My understanding is that, as a miner, you are looking to sell Bitcoins, so that reputation part doesn't apply to you directly.

You are absolutely right.

[xarchangelzerox]

How will I be able to establish reputation as a complete and total newcomer?

The verification is for people looking to buy Bitcoins with Paypal. My understanding is that, as a miner, you are looking to sell Bitcoins, so that reputation part doesn't apply to you directly.

You are absolutely right.

Ah, I see.  Well I guess that makes it even easier then 

[Mahkul]

How will I be able to establish reputation as a complete and total newcomer?

The verification is for people looking to buy Bitcoins with Paypal. My understanding is that, as a miner, you are looking to sell Bitcoins, so that reputation part doesn't apply to you directly.

You are absolutely right.

Ah, I see.  Well I guess that makes it even easier then 

The idea of the system is to make sure that you won't wake up one day to see that the buyer claimed that you never sent him the goods (coins) and your money is gone. This is what we're trying to prevent - Paypal's chargebacks from dishonest users.

[Anonymous]

I did a couple of trades with coinpal and even set up my gpg rating on there. Can you setup the same system so we can link our gpg keys to our accounts ?

[Mahkul]

I did a couple of trades with coinpal and even set up my gpg rating on there. Can you setup the same system so we can link our gpg keys to our accounts ?

This should be no problem at all, thanks for the suggestion. It may not be done as quickly as getting the general functionality started, but we will definitely add it.

[djex]

Will this service only be for people who live in Europe?

I'm from Canada. If I sold bitcoin on bitmarket.eu for Euros or any other of your supported currencies, will I be able to deposit this to my paypal account?

[goatpig]

Will this service only be for people who live in Europe?

I'm from Canada. If I sold bitcoin on bitmarket.eu for Euros or any other of your supported currencies, will I be able to deposit this to my paypal account?

If you sent euros on a Canadian dollar based account, you'll incur exchange "fees", in the form of a really poor exchange rate.

[djex]

Will this service only be for people who live in Europe?

I'm from Canada. If I sold bitcoin on bitmarket.eu for Euros or any other of your supported currencies, will I be able to deposit this to my paypal account?

If you sent euros on a Canadian dollar based account, you'll incur exchange "fees", in the form of a really poor exchange rate.

Yes that is if I sent euros. If I were to receive Euros to my Canadian account it shouldn't be a problem I wouldn't think since at the moment 1.00 EUR = 1.40390 CAD.

Does this sound right or am I missing something?

[goatpig]

Will this service only be for people who live in Europe?

I'm from Canada. If I sold bitcoin on bitmarket.eu for Euros or any other of your supported currencies, will I be able to deposit this to my paypal account?

If you sent euros on a Canadian dollar based account, you'll incur exchange "fees", in the form of a really poor exchange rate.

Yes that is if I sent euros. If I were to receive Euros to my Canadian account it shouldn't be a problem I wouldn't think since at the moment 1.00 EUR = 1.40390 CAD.

Does this sound right or am I missing something?

Don't quote me on that, but I think that as long as the 2 parties based on different currencies, PayPal will use their "custom" exchange rate to perform the converstion.

Here's an example with EUR/USD (that I experienced personally). EUR/USD is at 1.4817 according to google. I send 100 euros to a friend in the USA, PP uses a conversion rate of 1.4317, and my friend receives $143 instead of $148.

Next, he sends me $100, PP converts in on a 1.53 basis, i get 65.3 euros instead of 67.5

[proudhon]

I like it.

[kiba]

Methink it's only a matter of time that paypal will shut down these accounts.

[Belkaar]

Very good idea. Paypal would have to shut down every members paypal account which the won't do because many are very likely also used on ebay.

On a second note: Maybe you should allow other currencies like AUD, CAD and USD, so people from those countries can trade directly.