Can bitcoin survive without the Internet?

[twiifm]

In my opinion bitcoin are exist just because of internet and when you shut down the internet bitcoin community will disappear.

Sadly he's right
How will the Bitcoin community survive with it the internet? How will we trade our coins? How will the average user even get a hold of a Bitcoin without going through so much trouble like ringing around or exchanging in person?
It'll be impossible for Bitcoin to grow any further if the internet is off. It'll be impossible for Bitcoin to SURVIVE. It just won't happen.

As much as all of us dreamers want to believe that radio waves can submit transactions that's not what it is about. Besides, there will be much larger worries than Bitcoin if the internet does in fact shut off.

Exactly... There are bigger worries if the internet dies as opposed to worrying about what will happen to Bitcoin.

Chances are, however, that those with physical Bitcoins will start laughing at us (Maybe).

In all honesty, internet dies, 40% of population dies, banking dies, and we return to the dark ages.

You know the internet only existed since 90s, dont you?   

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[Sumerian]

I don't think so. Offline coins will be worthless too, I think.

[Yakamoto]

In my opinion bitcoin are exist just because of internet and when you shut down the internet bitcoin community will disappear.

Sadly he's right
How will the Bitcoin community survive with it the internet? How will we trade our coins? How will the average user even get a hold of a Bitcoin without going through so much trouble like ringing around or exchanging in person?
It'll be impossible for Bitcoin to grow any further if the internet is off. It'll be impossible for Bitcoin to SURVIVE. It just won't happen.

As much as all of us dreamers want to believe that radio waves can submit transactions that's not what it is about. Besides, there will be much larger worries than Bitcoin if the internet does in fact shut off.

Exactly... There are bigger worries if the internet dies as opposed to worrying about what will happen to Bitcoin.

Chances are, however, that those with physical Bitcoins will start laughing at us (Maybe).

In all honesty, internet dies, 40% of population dies, banking dies, and we return to the dark ages.

You know the internet only existed since 90s, dont you?   

And are you aware how dependent we are on the internet now?

Power, banking, basic necessities (Ordering and the like), this forum (And every other forum), people's facebook dependency, Some phone systems now (Some ISPs also provide phone service via Wifi), manufacturing, etc, are connected via the internet.

Pre-90s was when there WASN'T any of this connection. Now, everything migrated to the internet, and we're now really dependent on its survival.

You can't buy a plane ticket online if the internet goes down, and you can sometimes buy it at the door. How are your manufacturing managers supposed to communicate with China once satellite and wifi service is down?

Basic utilities are often monitored via the internet, or information/changes that have to be made are shuttled back-and-forth via the internet.

Oh, the internet went down? Guess we won't know about the electrical station that stopped working, and no-one can call us since the power's out...

[twiifm]

In my opinion bitcoin are exist just because of internet and when you shut down the internet bitcoin community will disappear.

Sadly he's right
How will the Bitcoin community survive with it the internet? How will we trade our coins? How will the average user even get a hold of a Bitcoin without going through so much trouble like ringing around or exchanging in person?
It'll be impossible for Bitcoin to grow any further if the internet is off. It'll be impossible for Bitcoin to SURVIVE. It just won't happen.

As much as all of us dreamers want to believe that radio waves can submit transactions that's not what it is about. Besides, there will be much larger worries than Bitcoin if the internet does in fact shut off.

Exactly... There are bigger worries if the internet dies as opposed to worrying about what will happen to Bitcoin.

Chances are, however, that those with physical Bitcoins will start laughing at us (Maybe).

In all honesty, internet dies, 40% of population dies, banking dies, and we return to the dark ages.

You know the internet only existed since 90s, dont you?   

And are you aware how dependent we are on the internet now?

Power, banking, basic necessities (Ordering and the like), this forum (And every other forum), people's facebook dependency, Some phone systems now (Some ISPs also provide phone service via Wifi), manufacturing, etc, are connected via the internet.

Pre-90s was when there WASN'T any of this connection. Now, everything migrated to the internet, and we're now really dependent on its survival.

You can't buy a plane ticket online if the internet goes down, and you can sometimes buy it at the door. How are your manufacturing managers supposed to communicate with China once satellite and wifi service is down?

Basic utilities are often monitored via the internet, or information/changes that have to be made are shuttled back-and-forth via the internet.

Oh, the internet went down? Guess we won't know about the electrical station that stopped working, and no-one can call us since the power's out...

Yeah so we'll be inconvenienced.   I doubt 40% of the population will die.  We will adapt somehow

[polynesia]

Life without internet in 2010's is like life without electricity in 1990's.
Not imaginable.

[twiifm]

Life without internet in 2010's is like life without electricity in 1990's.
Not imaginable.

You mean 1890's? 

[verlosser89]

I agree bitcoin needs internet to survive but maybe the internet of tomorrow will be different from the internet of today

thats true mate  Although bitcoin and the Internet are both decentralized, they serve rather distinct purposes.
Bitcoin isn’t Money—It’s the Internet of Money

[nuno12345]

Of course it will some whale would launch a bitcoin satellite to handle the blockchain and we fully move to paper wallets

[blumangroup]

In my opinion bitcoin are exist just because of internet and when you shut down the internet bitcoin community will disappear.

Sadly he's right
How will the Bitcoin community survive with it the internet? How will we trade our coins? How will the average user even get a hold of a Bitcoin without going through so much trouble like ringing around or exchanging in person?
It'll be impossible for Bitcoin to grow any further if the internet is off. It'll be impossible for Bitcoin to SURVIVE. It just won't happen.

As much as all of us dreamers want to believe that radio waves can submit transactions that's not what it is about. Besides, there will be much larger worries than Bitcoin if the internet does in fact shut off.

Exactly... There are bigger worries if the internet dies as opposed to worrying about what will happen to Bitcoin.

Chances are, however, that those with physical Bitcoins will start laughing at us (Maybe).

In all honesty, internet dies, 40% of population dies, banking dies, and we return to the dark ages.

You know the internet only existed since 90s, dont you?  

The internet has only been around for a short time, however our economy and population is heavily dependent on it. If the internet were to somehow "disappear" overnight then much of the economy would be in ruins, which would cause people to unable to be able to buy food and/or medical supplies and/or be able to treat a number of medical aliments that the internet helps treat (via diagnosis, treatment, gathering of data, ect.)

[Yakamoto]

<snip>
Yeah so we'll be inconvenienced.   I doubt 40% of the population will die.  We will adapt somehow

The internet has only been around for a short time, however our economy and population is heavily dependent on it. If the internet were to somehow "disappear" overnight then much of the economy would be in ruins, which would cause people to unable to be able to buy food and/or medical supplies and/or be able to treat a number of medical aliments that the internet helps treat (via diagnosis, treatment, gathering of data, ect.)

Thanks bluman!

This is my entire thought process summed up in a well written paragraph.

Thus my theory that 40% of the population will die, however, 40% is a bit too high. 5%-15% is more accurate I'd say.

[alh]

I won't debate the human impact of a "Internet goes away", because it's mostly pointless. I would however argue the speed at which it manifests will be hugely different between the human impact, and the impact on Bitcoin. If the "Internet goes away" the impact on Bitcoin, will be fast and furious. The value of a coin will fall to nearly zero. This won't take weeks, it will happen in a timescale much closer to hours or days. Th value of mining hardware will also plummet. It will take weeks/months/years for the impact of Internet loss to actually kill off humans. It will be more like a gradual acceleration of the death rate over time. As was pointed out before, Bitcoin is an "invention of the Internet". Human health and associated care has centuries more experience, both good and bad.

[Mobius]

Short answer to the OP: no it cannot.

The internet essentially is now impossible to shut down to be stopped. It is very decentralized (much more so then bitcoin), there are many very large players that control small parts of the internet, if one of them were to shut down then others could take over what they previously did.

[raganius]

I have just found outernet.is:

Outernet will utilize a constellation of low-cost, miniature satellites and existing infrastructure in geostationary orbit. In both cases, satellites receive content from the web through a network of ground stations which uplink content that the community has collectively requested. The data packets are broadcast in loops so that poor signal quality does not prevent continuous updating of content.

Also, this post might be of interest to be quoted here:

One of the key tenets is that bitcoin block data is easy to distribute widely.  Information wants to be free.  One of the ways we may keep bitcoin healthy and free is finding alternative ways to distribute block chain data.  This provides resilience in case the P2P mesh network is attacked.

My personal favorite is satellite distribution, something I have been working on quietly in the background.  Satellites means one of two things:

• 1. Buy some bandwidth on an existing satellite.
• 2. Launch your own satellite.

Buying bandwidth is the most cost-effective, and readily attainable method today.  However, not just any satellite channel will do.  Bitcoin requires a dedicated, one-to-many broadcast mechanism.  This is like renting a TV channel -- although at much lower bandwidth requirements (1MB every minute or two).

Nanosatellites have recently cut satellite costs down from the absurd, traditional $20m+ build, $50m+ launch.  There is now a standardized cubesat size.  Two innovations reduced launch costs down into the $100k's range: (1) Many organizations collaborate together (rideshare), paying a portion of the launch cost.  Sometimes 27 or more cubesats are launched at once.  (2) These clusters of cubesats are launched as a secondary payload.  A primary payload has priority, which means secondary payloads are sometimes not launched into a proper orbit.  With these two factors, cubesat construction and launch is lowered to a reachable price: $2m or so.

Several people, including some investors, in the bitcoin community have privately expressed interest.  It seemed like a good time to move forward with Phase 1 of the project.

Phase 1 is:   flesh out cubesat specifications, research leased bandwidth pricing, and specific data needs (xmit tech, frequencies).  The initial goal is broadcasting worldwide (or at least major continents) the latest bitcoin block, over and over again.  Stretch goals include broadcasting recent chains, recent TX's, and other data.

A word about government involvement:  Set expectations properly.  There are three points at which government is inevitably involved, at some level: (a) getting launch approval, (b) ground station(s) inevitably must be located in some useful geolocation, and (c) frequency selection.   Fundamentally, these satellites will be broadcasting public, not-encrypted blockchain data, so the content should not be an issue.

Donations accepted at 1M9MyyPsAak7zRjW4D96pTxDaAEpDDZLR7

Feb 05 update:

Project update #1 (PDF): http://www.dunveganspace.com/goals/bitsat/BitSatUpdate1.pdf
BitSat architecture, v0.1 (PDF): http://www.dunveganspace.com/goals/bitsat/BitSatArchitecture-0.1.pdf

Files posted on http://www.dunveganspace.com/goals/bitsat

Sponsors (1 BTC or more):

• Mohit Kalra (2 BTC, May 2014)
• Unknown (1 BTC, Apr 2014)
• http://www.redstarmining.com/ (1 BTC, Jan 2014)
• Roger Ver (5 BTC, Dec 2013)
• Erik Voorhees (5 BTC, Dec 2013)
• Rusty Russell (1 BTC, Dec 2013)
• BitcoinGrant.org (25 BTC, Nov 2013)
• Jeff Garzik (1 BTC, Nov 2013)

Standard disclaimer:  This is a personal project.  Nothing to do with my employer.

[cryptworld]

I think that it would be very difficult to survive
how is the network spread
trading,buying online,value...
definitely almost impossible

[alwinlinzee]

I don't think it can because BTC network is expanding through the internet.

[Ayers]

you actually don't need provider to connect to the web you know it right?, it just that it cost much less, and is more secure, a distant future can maybe get rid of centralized internet points too, a coin that will do so would be the coin that will surpass bitcoin

[Altminer79]

No the internet is a big factor and a big percentage of sells around the world. Yes it might get by in the world if it got around. But it won't do aswell as with the internet.

[efreeti]

Bitcoin network needs active miners to maintain against 51% attack.

And all the private key will be useless if there is no one to confirm it.

[Mobius]

Radio waves could work, but let's assume no wireless communication...

Bitcoin could probably survive without internet per-se, but there would still have to be a Bitcoin network. Perhaps people could print out signed transactions and deliver or mail them to their local node, which would exchange with some other nodes (either on paper of digital media such as SD cards). Each region/nation could have a "supernode" clearing-houses which would receive local transactions and send them to foreign supernodes  (maybe via telegraph cables? If we are generous to ourselves) and vice-versa in order to speed the regular node-to-node propagation.

(*Sigh*, when I started this post I didn't realize how ridiculous this would sound)

I have little idea how mining would work because I don't know enough about how it works now, but presumably blocks could be distributed by the same methods, although mining might have to be done by super-nodes exclusively.

In that situation, I'd say paper currency is probably better, BUT I would like to see the look on my face when I get a letter in the snail-mail letting me know that "You've received a Bitcoin payment for 125 mBTC!" or "Your payment of 125 mBTC to 1CBNHbNNJ4C3dTELRJq312hXFwUqxg7bnm has been confirmed!"

A letter in the mail would not allow you to know if the TX was actually confirmed, nor would it allow you to check for double spends and reject the TX if your letter is a double spend.

[abacus]

We've already reached the letter-in-mail level without even mentioning IPoAC?
Pfff!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers