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Author Topic: Pocket Dice – The first realistic dice game  (Read 82208 times)
sionsandman
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May 16, 2016, 02:11:02 PM
 #561


Pocket Dice,

Can you explain what happened here:

As it's easy to understand I was playing auto and increasing bet by 100% on loss.

sionsandman
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May 16, 2016, 02:28:44 PM
 #562


Am I missing something or this shouldn't happen?

Pocket Dice (OP)
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May 16, 2016, 06:49:19 PM
 #563


Am I missing something or this shouldn't happen?


Hi there sionsandman!

Please PM me your username and dates when those rolls were made so i could investigate this issue.
Or write us at support@pocketdice.io. Normally we respond in a couple of hours. Will do our best to figure out if anything is wrong quickly.

Cheers

sionsandman
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May 18, 2016, 08:55:05 AM
 #564


Am I missing something or this shouldn't happen?


Hi there sionsandman!

Please PM me your username and dates when those rolls were made so i could investigate this issue.
Or write us at support@pocketdice.io. Normally we respond in a couple of hours. Will do our best to figure out if anything is wrong quickly.

Cheers

Hi

I see this is not always correctly updated.

The correct list is always on "My Statistics" page.

Thanks
Pocket Dice (OP)
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May 18, 2016, 09:02:33 AM
 #565


Am I missing something or this shouldn't happen?


Hi there sionsandman!

Please PM me your username and dates when those rolls were made so i could investigate this issue.
Or write us at support@pocketdice.io. Normally we respond in a couple of hours. Will do our best to figure out if anything is wrong quickly.

Cheers

Hi

I see this is not always correctly updated.

The correct list is always on "My Statistics" page.

Thanks

When you hover over My bets or All bets, the table stops refreshing and is paused, but you keep on rolling (say, if you're running autobets). When you remove your mouse from the stats table, it starts refreshing again. But the data for the pause period will appear there only after you refresh the page. Though if you use My Statistics section from the menu, you will see all your rolls there.

We are aware of this confusing issue and will fix it in the future updates of the game.

Thanks for playing Pocket Dice!

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May 30, 2016, 04:37:15 PM
 #566

i'm a big fan of PocketDice! Thank you for such an awesome site!
I've wagered 89BTC this month, won tournament and spent a lot of great time here. Thanks!
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May 30, 2016, 04:48:48 PM
 #567

Hey Hey!
Check this out! Our players are the best gamblers ever and they totally deserve to win a lot. Just give a quick look on this table and you'll see there is no problem to win huge amount of REAL money. Current exchange rate is more than 500$ per 1 BTC so don’t waste your time and become our new leader - win THOUSANDS of dollars right now!

And don't forget: one roll can change your life!

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June 03, 2016, 04:35:15 AM
Last edit: June 03, 2016, 07:39:24 PM by coldblooded
 #568

I have found fault with the provably fair on this site.

It feeds 30 numbers (not provably fair) into the provably fair shuffling mechanism which uses the client seed to shuffle the already pre-determined numbers fed into it by pocketdice.

This is not provably fair.

And just to be clear, the point is that the numbers are chosen before being combined with the client seed and before being fed into the provably fair shuffling algorithm,  therefore, these numbers could be pre-chosen by pocketdice and there is no way to prove that to be true or untrue, thus, not provably fair.   Since the numbers being chosen are not provably fair, pocket dice can make them whatever they want.  

This is why the site is not provably fair.  Period.  Done.  End of story.  Site is not provably fair.


The following shows how this type of "provably fair" fraud can be used to manipulate outcomes.... however, none of the following evidence is necessary to prove that the site is unfair, that is already proven by their own admission on their provably fair information page in the first few lines.   Read carefully.  Smiley

------------
Example of how this could be used in a way to cheat you  (contrary to pocketdices many solid promises that its impossible for them to cheat you because of this great mechanism they have in place.     Why shouldn't you believe them,  they said its fair right?   WRONG!)
------------



For example,   this is the first "over 11" I analyzed, but had the same results as the "over 6" data I've been analyzing.

The 30 numbers pocketdice fed into the shuffling mechanism were ..

(and not sure if you have to be logged in to view this, but here is where I'm getting this data https://pocketdice.io/statistics/574ff765ff92745b238b46a5 or see screenshots below)

[2, 3, 1, 5, 3, 1, 6, 1, 3, 6, 3, 4, 2, 1, 1, 5, 4, 2, 4, 6, 3, 3, 1, 4, 4, 2, 5, 6, 4, 3]

Again, these numbers are fed to the shuffling algorithm and combined with the client seed by their own admission.  These numbers can be anything pocketdice wants them to be and this is because they are not part of the provably fair mechanism.  They are created by pocketdice servers and the "provably fair" mechanism simply shuffles the numbers pocket dice picked.

If you analyze the numbers from this bet, my odds of hitting a 12 were 6 in 435, or 1.379%.   The actual odds of rolling two dice and hitting a 12 are 1 in 36 or 2.777%.   Obviously a major difference.    But the point is, this site is not provably fair as it claims to be, you can check yourself.   Total up the dice as I have, and you will see that when you make a bet, the odds you think you are getting, you really are not getting, pocketdice is setting different odds before it even goes into the provably fair shuffle.

I also wonder why the need for 30 numbers.  And if you need to shuffle 30 numbers, why not use an equal amount of each number to make the shuffle fair?    Why feed in a "random" or arbitrary (or meticulously pre-composed) set of numbers?   The only purpose is deception.  

Here is how you can break down the numbers on any bet for yourself.   Go to the info for the bet and click on the "stats for nerds" link.   You will be shown the 30 numbers pocketdice chose for that bet, and further below those numbers will be shuffled to give you the outcome of your bet.  


1
1
1
1
1
1

2
2
2
2

3
3
3
3
3
3
3

4
4
4
4
4
4

5
5
5

6
6
6
6

2 = 15 ways    3.45 %
3 = 24 ways    5.52 %
4 = 48 ways  11.03 %
5 = 64 ways  14.71 %  
6 = 63 Ways  14.48 %
7 = 78 Ways  17.93 %
8 = 52 Ways  11.95 %  
9 = 46 Ways  10.57 %
10 = 27 Ways 6.21 %
11 = 12 Ways  2.76 %
12 = 6 ways    1.38 %

BET WAS ON 'OVER 11' (IN OTHER WORDS ROLL A 12)

.01379  (Pocketdices Chance to Roll 6 in 435)<--WHAT??
.02777  (Actual Chance to Roll on two dice 1 in 36)



I WANT MY MONEY BACK POCKETDICE



http://s33.postimg.org/hf0yvt8in/SS_PD_UNFAIR.png

---

---


This bet I made immediately before the one above.  It's even worse.

[2, 5, 3, 1, 4, 5, 1, 6, 3, 3, 3, 5, 4, 5, 2, 5, 3, 2, 5, 4, 2, 5, 1, 3, 2, 4, 2, 1, 6, 2]

1
1
1
1

2
2
2
2
2
2
2

3
3
3
3
3
3

4
4
4
4

5
5
5
5
5
5
5

6
6

2 = 6 ways    1.38 %
3 = 28 ways   6.44 %
4 = 45 ways  10.34 %
5 = 58 ways  13.33 %
6 = 71 Ways  16.32 %
7 = 81 Ways  18.62 %
8 = 62 Ways  14.25 %
9 = 40 Ways   9.20 %
10 = 29 Ways  6.67 %
11 = 14 Ways  3.22 %
12 = 1 way    0.23 %   <-- my bet coincidentally

BET WAS ON 'OVER 11' (IN OTHER WORDS ROLL A 12)

.00229 (Pockedices Chance to Roll a 12?   1 in 435)<--WHAT??
.02777 (Actual Chance to Roll on two dice 1 in 36)


http://s33.postimg.org/n3hdmw1jz/ss_pd_rape.png
sionsandman
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June 06, 2016, 10:20:42 AM
 #569

I have found fault with the provably fair on this site.



I'm curious to see what others have to say about this since according to your feedback you have a history against casinos in general.
NLNico
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June 07, 2016, 03:55:09 PM
 #570

I have found fault with the provably fair on this site.



I'm curious to see what others have to say about this since according to your feedback you have a history against casinos in general.
Yes, coldblooded seems sometimes like a troll. But he is right here. PocketDice is indeed not really provably fair and this has been known for 1+ year: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1077905.0

Easiest example: imagine a player is always playing on "Under 6". For the next bet PocketDice could give you literally the following "initial random numbers":

Code:
[6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6]

You obviously cannot win your "Under 6" bet. They shuffle those numbers with your clientseed, but if you only shuffle those 6's, still the result won't be "Under 6". You can also afterwards check the hash and see that it were really those numbers.. but that doesn't really help you much either.

This is an extreme example and the real way would be more subtle (not all the same number lol.)




I still don't think they actually do this, because if the players would find out, the player could actually cheat it too (bet "Under 12" lot of times and then "Over 11" for a nice 35.3x win lol.) But still provably fair is not about "well they probably are fair", it's about having a solid implementation that is completely provably fair. So yes, it is disappointing they didn't fix this after more than a year.

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June 07, 2016, 04:13:14 PM
 #571

PocketDice is indeed not really provably fair and this has been known for 1+ year: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1077905.0

Easiest example: imagine a player is always playing on "Under 6". For the next bet PocketDice could give you literally the following "initial random numbers":

Code:
[6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6]

You obviously cannot win your "Under 6" bet. They shuffle those numbers with your clientseed, but if you only shuffle those 6's, still the result won't be "Under 6". You can also afterwards check the hash and see that it were really those numbers.. but that doesn't really help you much either.
These complicated provably fair algos, which dice sites now use to cheat players, are the reason I am now more prone to bet on blockchain based provably fair gambling sites like www.BitcoinBetting.website.
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June 07, 2016, 04:23:05 PM
Last edit: June 07, 2016, 04:37:32 PM by NLNico
 #572

These complicated provably fair algos, which dice sites now use to cheat players, are the reason I am now more prone to bet on blockchain based provably fair gambling sites like *removed*
That is just false. Almost all popular dice sites use the "nonce implementation". PocketDice is pretty much literally the only dice site with a "complicated provably fair algo" (because with 2 actual dice numbers - it is a little bit more complicated.) I also think it's inappropriate to post a site (which you look affiliated with) in this discussion.

In addition I would still trust PocketDice more than a completely new website, that spams in competitor's topic's, despite of the provably fair implementation.

edit: after looking at your "bitcoinbetting" site, it has a 50% HE. So no, thank you, we don't need scams like that.

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June 10, 2016, 12:11:04 PM
 #573

Hi everyone and thank you for your feedback!

The only reason we didn't develop and implement the new version of provably fair at Pocket Dice is because we've never had much comments about it from the players. Right now we finally decided to start using the "nonce" method which has become a common practice for most dice sites. The feature will be live next week. Let's hope it makes our operation more transparent for all our players.

Once again, I would like to point out that your feedback is extremely valuable for us. This is what actually drives our product plans, so if you have any ideas/suggestions, please either post them here, or send them to support@pocketdice.io. All the information and ideas we receive from you are prioritized and carefully stored in our backlog, then it goes to development and finally appears live at Pocket Dice.

Cheers everyone and have a great day.

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June 10, 2016, 12:27:03 PM
 #574

Hi everyone and thank you for your feedback!

The only reason we didn't develop and implement the new version of provably fair at Pocket Dice is because we've never had much comments about it from the players. Right now we finally decided to start using the "nonce" method which has become a common practice for most dice sites. The feature will be live next week. Let's hope it makes our operation more transparent for all our players.

Once again, I would like to point out that your feedback is extremely valuable for us. This is what actually drives our product plans, so if you have any ideas/suggestions, please either post them here, or send them to support@pocketdice.io. All the information and ideas we receive from you are prioritized and carefully stored in our backlog, then it goes to development and finally appears live at Pocket Dice.

Cheers everyone and have a great day.
loyal login rewards = epic fail Smiley
after 7 days you log in 8th day it resets to 1 even tho  you didnt miss a day Smiley
it should be more days or atleast stay at maximum level reward..
regards.
-Katerniko1
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June 10, 2016, 12:51:41 PM
 #575

loyal login rewards = epic fail Smiley
after 7 days you log in 8th day it resets to 1 even tho  you didnt miss a day Smiley
it should be more days or atleast stay at maximum level reward..
regards.
-Katerniko1
I am not a player of Pocket Dice. But from what you are telling, I think these login rewards are perfectly fine.
And this system (bigger reward for each day in 7 days of consecutive logins period and then reset) is industry standard in many online games (I am not talking about gambling services).
It is implemented for example in Smite - a 3rd person view MOBA game with over 20 millions players.
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June 10, 2016, 01:09:01 PM
 #576

loyal login rewards = epic fail Smiley
after 7 days you log in 8th day it resets to 1 even tho  you didnt miss a day Smiley
it should be more days or atleast stay at maximum level reward..
regards.
-Katerniko1
I am not a player of Pocket Dice. But from what you are telling, I think these login rewards are perfectly fine.
And this system (bigger reward for each day in 7 days of consecutive logins period and then reset) is industry standard in many online games (I am not talking about gambling services).
It is implemented for example in Smite - a 3rd person view MOBA game with over 20 millions players.

if you are loging for 21 days in a row how can you get a reward for day 1?
that is not good system Smiley
regards.
-Katerniko1
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June 10, 2016, 01:36:22 PM
 #577

I dont understand why you say this is realistic ? How ?
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June 10, 2016, 01:55:35 PM
 #578

Hi -Katerniko1, thanks for your message.

As for the daily rewards, I understand that this limitation of our bonus progress may not seem perfect. We are thinking on how to improve it.

But before you call it an EPIC FAIL Smiley lets just look at it from a different angle.

We're the only dice site in the world to offer:
  • 1st and 2nd deposit bonuses
  • cashback bonuses for highrollers
  • daily rewards each day for everyone
  • tournaments with highly valuable prizes (actually 23 BTCs have been paid out as prize money during the last 30 days)
  • daily rainbot giveaways for everyone who behaves well in chat

So I hope you agree that even taking into account the imperfect daily rewards system, we are still very generous with our players  Smiley

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June 10, 2016, 02:02:40 PM
 #579

I dont understand why you say this is realistic ? How ?

Because we're the only bitcoin dice game to use dice images. As long as all our competitors are simply displaying a random number, we visualize it with the images of 2 dice (and are using the odds of 2 real dice accordingly).

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June 10, 2016, 02:06:37 PM
 #580

Hi everyone and thank you for your feedback!

The only reason we didn't develop and implement the new version of provably fair at Pocket Dice is because we've never had much comments about it from the players. Right now we finally decided to start using the "nonce" method which has become a common practice for most dice sites. The feature will be live next week. Let's hope it makes our operation more transparent for all our players.

Once again, I would like to point out that your feedback is extremely valuable for us. This is what actually drives our product plans, so if you have any ideas/suggestions, please either post them here, or send them to support@pocketdice.io. All the information and ideas we receive from you are prioritized and carefully stored in our backlog, then it goes to development and finally appears live at Pocket Dice.

Cheers everyone and have a great day.

That is great! Cheesy


We're the only dice site in the world to offer:
  • 1st and 2nd deposit bonuses
  • cashback bonuses for highrollers
  • daily rewards each day for everyone
  • tournaments with highly valuable prizes (actually 23 BTCs have been paid out as prize money during the last 30 days)
  • daily rainbot giveaways for everyone who behaves well in chat

So I hope you agree that even taking into account the imperfect daily rewards system, we are still very generous with our players  Smiley

I agree. Grin
(700x looks a bit big, though I am not really a fan of deposit bonuses anyway)
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